Manic Rambling Spiral

Manic Rambling Spiral

By Heather B. Armstrong & John R. Bray

Manic Rambling Spiral (MRS) is a podcast about single parenting, but it's not a parenting podcast. Rather, MRS is a podcast about living life - having a life, a career, and a self - in a setting that is constantly dictated by, built around and sabotaged by our children.

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165: Is this thing on?

We’re back. Sort of. Changes are imminent, and we think you'll pee your pants. It's been a while so please excuse the awkward as we settle in behind the mic.Also, does John's voice trigger ASMR or what. See for privacy and opt-out information.
10/03/2127m 7s

164: School Comes Home

In addition to everything else happening as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic, kids around the world are suddenly at home for school. But despite some of the smug homeschool memes and comments floating around, this isn’t homeschool. And it’s not easy. So take it from John (a homeschooling parent): you’re not crazy for being completely overwhelmed. See for privacy and opt-out information.
23/04/2058m 48s

163: Come On Eileen

We didn't plan for this to be about COVID-19, but most of the world didn't plan for anything that's happening right now. As everyone scrambles to understand social distancing and isolation while grappling with the unknown, Heather and John talk about school closure and the state of the country before spiraling into a more serious conversation related to teenage emotions. See for privacy and opt-out information.
19/03/2059m 6s

162: MRS Turns 4

Our first episode landed on St. Patrick's day 2016 and, four years later, we're still kicking. Admittedly, we've been kicking a lot less lately, but we're back to explain why, talk about Heather's weight (have you noticed?), provide an update compared to where we were four years ago, and tease some exciting changes coming to MRS (for real this time; they're going to be amazing). See for privacy and opt-out information.
12/03/2058m 1s

161: In Memory of Coco

After more than 12 happy years of squawking, barking, and being herded by her favorite business partner, Heather and her family said their final goodbyes to Dame Eleanor Ritzford-Fitzsimons "Coco" Puffs. Heather shares some of those final moments as we discuss the significance of dogs and their place in our homes. See for privacy and opt-out information.
30/01/201h 4m

160: Out With the Old

Wrapping up the year with our first monthly episode.Wondering about John, Lexton, and Lilly? We covered that. Curious about Heather's gut? We covered that, too. We also talk a bit about mail, resolutions, teens (ugh teens), organization, and meditation. Like we said before: Same MRS, just a little less often. See for privacy and opt-out information.
19/12/1958m 23s

159: Change is Afoot

Get it? A FOOT? Because Heather's foot? Perfect. Now that you're smiling about that we can let you know that you're going to be hearing from us less often. A lot less often. As in only once a month. Why? There are a lot of reasons, but "Life" is probably the best summary. See for privacy and opt-out information.
14/11/1924m 50s

158: Fun with Fur and Feet

We never know where we’re going or how we get there, but maybe that’s part of the charm? Anyway, Heather’s getting some answers, John’s a Furminator convert, and Marlo is Marlo (which is somehow also very Lexton). Also: Dog socks.  See for privacy and opt-out information.
07/11/1958m 1s

157: We Call it Hygge

What does laundry share in common with cold, leftover nachos? Comfort. Yes, cold nachos provide comfort and we’re ready to die on this hill. Sure, we are open to other opinions, but you know what they say: it’s not a difference of opinion, you’re just ill-informed. See for privacy and opt-out information.
24/10/1958m 40s

156: Reddit for Relationships

We talk about more than Bumble (you know you want an update), but John’s text to Heather is probably the best description for this episode. “Without fail, the women on this app are in three distinct categories: 1. Want kids, 2. Don’t want a relationship, 3. Way out of my league. However, even if nothing in their bio is a fit, I always swipe right on the women who look like they could kick my a$$.” See for privacy and opt-out information.
17/10/1951m 20s

155: A Dating App Newcomer

It finally happened. John joined the online dating scene and it’s as confusing and empty as he’s always imagined. It has, however, made him realize how many people are terrible at taking selfies. But don’t worry, MRS’s resident optimist is staying hopeful. Just kidding! All is lost. See for privacy and opt-out information.
10/10/1955m 46s

154: The Price of a Pet

An update on Coco (a pupdate?), some commentary on Halloween, and a discussion on how much our pets are worth. What's that? We're heartless and evil? Yeah, okay, probably, but that should have been clear years ago. And don't worry, we take a softer approach when discussing orthodontics and swimming. See for privacy and opt-out information.
03/10/1953m 58s

153: Canines and Curriculum

We moved right from Elizabethan collars into pop punk- and it wasn’t a smooth transition. That’s John’s fault. But somehow we still managed to cover homeschool curriculum, the climate, and a bit about vaccinations. If this seems chaotic, you should see our texts. See for privacy and opt-out information.
26/09/1953m 29s

152: Fitted and Folded

Sure, we took a week off due to both of us being sick, but we didn’t actually get a week off. There were endoscopies to be had, sheets to be folded, and puppies to be chased. And this weed won’t just eat itself. See for privacy and opt-out information.
19/09/1954m 0s

151: Injury and Insult

It’s been a busy week without any travel or big changes. How so? Well, Heather’s foot is still an issue, her GI tract is making waves, and John’s battling school policy. Oh yeah, there was also an incident with a gun at Leta’s school. Don't worry, it’s not all somber and sad. See for privacy and opt-out information.
05/09/1955m 30s

150: Boots and Bowels

Somehow this episode came full circle. From boots and bus stops to pets and school routines, we cover a lot and bookend the whole thing with bowels. Sometimes we even surprise ourselves, but not as much as Leta will surprise herself when she finally understands that a car does not steer itself. See for privacy and opt-out information.
29/08/1954m 50s

149: Don't Forget to Steer

Another week, another couple dozen lessons in stress management. But we’re still taking our own advice and letting things slide. Invasive dogs, oversleeping teens, and even the thought of complete obliviousness behind the wheel of a large metal box hurtling at other objects. One of these days the dogs are definitely going to make us snap, though. See for privacy and opt-out information.
22/08/1957m 15s

148: Slow Down

Weird title for a show called "Manic Rambling Spiral," but here we are. Heather ditched her FitBit and her Apple Watch and, as a result, a whole lot of anxiety; so this week is focused (eventually) on slowing down, taking things in stride, and some very relevant advice from an Englishman in a Dutch bar. And yes, MRS is back from break. See for privacy and opt-out information.
15/08/1949m 13s

147: From Paris to Puppies

Socialized medicine doesn’t disappoint, especially when the phenomenon of “hot doctor” clearly exists in all countries. But John’s doctor? Nah. He prefers the shotgun approach. And yes, we also talk about Lilly. See for privacy and opt-out information.
04/07/1956m 6s

146: Friends and Fashion

John and Heather are both facing some child-free time, and it’s going to be glorious. We bask in that notion, discuss friendships as an adult, and even touch on Heather’s questionable fashion decisions. We’d say everything is related, but that probably isn’t true. See for privacy and opt-out information.
27/06/1956m 28s

145: No Topic Needed

We had a meetup last week! It was great. To say "thank you!" to everyone who joined us, we spent most of this episode talking about healthcare. That wasn't really the plan, but that's how things go around here. We also touched on John's dog, the woes of air travel, and a couple apologies related to Ep 144. See for privacy and opt-out information.
20/06/1954m 15s

144: Reunited at Last

We got the band back together. Well, the band never really broke up, but Heather and John are in the same (hotel) room recording MRS for the first time ever and we're talking about Chicago and homelessness and also teeth. It was easy. Mostly. A little awkward because we also recorded a video. So, yeah, that's a thing. See for privacy and opt-out information.
13/06/191h 10m

143: Musical Therapy

A topic! We have a topic! It’s music, and we almost don’t stray from it. This week we’re talking about some of the music we enjoy, the beauty of a truly sad song, a dog whose alias is “Taco,” and is that tickle you just felt behind your ear a tick? Better check. See for privacy and opt-out information.
06/06/1957m 31s

142: Making Small Talk

You find out a lot about people when you take the time to start a conversation. Does this apply to Stephen Dorff? We may never know, will we, HEATHER? That's okay. We have bigger things to worry about like an MRS meet-up in Chicago - suggestions welcome! - and an Instagram account for John's dog. See for privacy and opt-out information.
30/05/1946m 42s

141: An MRS Overhaul

You’ve kept us up and running for over three years (3 YEARS!), and now it’s time for our little podcast to grow and change. How? We’re figuring that out and, with your help, we know it’s going to be amazing. But, as you’ll notice in this episode, we’ll still be rambling. See for privacy and opt-out information.
24/05/1952m 42s

140: Fun Facts About Sleeping

If there are two takeaways from this week, they are as follows: Heather sleeps naked, John does not. Does this information have anything to do with John's puppy, the half marathon he ran, teen independence, or the last couple weeks of Heather's book tour? No. And, honestly, it's not even related. See for privacy and opt-out information.
16/05/1955m 58s

139: There Will Be Bandaids

What do book tours and bandaids have in common? A lot. It's sort of like the relationship between diarrhea and a week of stressful schedule juggling. You know, peas and carrots, poop and planes. We also talk a bit about puppies, but let's be honest: The Valedictorian deserves the mic this week. See for privacy and opt-out information.
02/05/1959m 23s

138: The Book Tour Begins

Heather hits the road next week for her book tour, so of course we talked about misplaced socks, pantyhose, and toxic plastics that make their way into cosmetics. But we also talked about her book - The Valedictorian of Being Dead - which comes out on April 23. John says, “It’s a hell of a read.” Because it is. See for privacy and opt-out information.
18/04/1958m 35s

137: It's All Puppies

At least 75% of this episode is about dogs and puppies and the horrors of pet ownership because John is a dog person now. Why? Honestly, he has no idea, but his hands are covered in bite marks, he's tired all the time, and his life is now even less his own. So, yeah, Heather was right: It's worse than having a baby. See for privacy and opt-out information.
11/04/1955m 18s

136: Type A Chaos

Renovations, broken boilers, puppies, and John's resistance to help even when it's generously offered. It's all loosely related. And somehow we still manage to touch on teenage emotions near the end because we're making rambling an art form. See for privacy and opt-out information.
04/04/1956m 54s

135: Breaking Millennials

It’s Spring Break. We could’ve easily talked about the woes of that for an hour. However, we still managed to discuss university selection, unfair expectations placed on teens, and career choices. In other words, we don’t get a Spring Break. See for privacy and opt-out information.
28/03/1955m 15s

134: Mostly Public Speaking

Wandering tangents seem to be the way of things around here lately. This week it's James Blake, the joy of celebrity interaction, Marlo's public speaking finesse, and The Legend of Zelda. But don't worry, that's only a fraction of what we covered, so it's still your weekly dose of, "What the hell was that about?" See for privacy and opt-out information.
21/03/1955m 16s

133: Spring Forward Feverishly

We're ringing in the time change in style. As always. Moderate injury, serious fever, and a healthy dose of feeling all together a little off have marked the last week or two. Also, a friendly reminder that if you're suddenly feeling a surge in anxiety or depression, the time change has a way of contributing to that. It's not just you. See for privacy and opt-out information.
14/03/1954m 15s

132: Hot Doctors

Why do people looking their absolute best have to be the ones who see you at your absolute worst? We don't have an answer, but that's just what happens. Every time. Even when someone has to navigate a camera to your colon. Life has jokes, and Heather was just the butt of one of them. Like, actually the butt. At least True Detective is good. See for privacy and opt-out information.
28/02/1947m 38s

131: Announcements and Bowels

Heather has a newsletter and some GI business to attend to. John has a newsletter and perfectly functioning bowels. Some things just aren’t fair, that’s why there’s Miralax. #notsponsored See for privacy and opt-out information.
21/02/1956m 2s

130: Replicating Childhood

Yeah, we spiraled again, but we also found ourselves looking back at how we were raised and how those experiences affect our parenting today. Less “get off our lawn” and more about what we want our kids to experience. Also, Leta turned 21. Maybe these spirals are more productive than we thought? See for privacy and opt-out information.
14/02/1952m 7s

129: Random Rambles

How did we get from A to B? Your guess is as good as ours. But it's not our fault that audiobooks, Mormon mission trips, forgetful teens, the weather, and black eyes are all related. Life is weird. We just go with it. See for privacy and opt-out information.
07/02/1953m 12s

128: Attendance is Mandatory

After John's extended fanboy moment about Heather's book (side note: It's incredible and you want to read it and probably give a copy to everyone you know), we're talking a little bit about teens, growing to emotionally process increasing responsibility, and the importance of attending funerals. We're pretty sure it all fits together. See for privacy and opt-out information.
31/01/1956m 14s

127: Dating Forecast

It's winter and the weather is awful and life keeps plowing forward. So, naturally, in the thick of this mess John is sort of possibly dabbling in the dating world and OH WOW IS THAT A THING. He's bad at it? Maybe? Only one way to go from here? See for privacy and opt-out information.
24/01/1957m 25s

126: Unhealthy Healthcare

We’re talking about insurance again. And mental health. And the absurdity of dealing with medical needs in the US. Why? Because it needs to be talked about until it changes and we’re happy to initiate the conversation. See for privacy and opt-out information.
17/01/1949m 49s

125: Grab Bullying by the Phone

Bullying has always been a problem, but technology is creating new platforms and increasingly removed ways to hate and harm. Spurred by a jarring episode involving Marlo, we’re talking about bullying, emotions, and the way judgment and blame continue to shape a generation. See for privacy and opt-out information.
10/01/1954m 51s

124: Stumbling into 2019

Another year... and you know what? We're excited for it (even John). Sure, we're getting older and keeping blood pressure journals, but that's life. As long as there are no formal parties with dress codes in the near future, we're downright optimistic. See for privacy and opt-out information.
03/01/1949m 59s

123: Ho Ho Hum

OH MY GOD. Are we whining about the holidays? No, not really. Just marveling at the passage of time and the value of hiring movers while catching our breath. We also spend a surprising amount of time talking about breakfast cereal. See for privacy and opt-out information.
20/12/1846m 32s

122: "A Single Man"

It's official. John is a homeowner! And his relationship status? That's permanently established via legal documents. Super awesome. Regardless, this is a big step. And Heather? Well, she's helping her mom move, nursing a stubbornness injury, and contemplating mortality. Life is wild. See for privacy and opt-out information.
13/12/1858m 38s

121: Holidays and Whatnot

What happened this week? What day is it? Just kidding, we never really know. Between high-school dances, holiday gifts, packing, and ironing sheets (there's always time for that), everything is a blur. Unless you're Leta, and you're making a 10-year plan. See for privacy and opt-out information.
06/12/1854m 51s

120: A Semi-Uncomfortable Comfort Zone

The holidays are a crazy time that brings many together and makes others feel extremely alone. So yes, it’s sort of another episode about loneliness, but we feel it’s an important topic because we’ve spent years stubbornly making ourselves alone. Sort of. See for privacy and opt-out information.
29/11/1857m 26s

119: Look Up

Heather's back from Rome, John's buying a home, and the holidays are here. Moral of the story: No rest for the weary or the wicked or the parents, and if you fit into more than one category, buckle up. Happy Thanksgiving! See for privacy and opt-out information.
22/11/1856m 56s

118: Drama and Contacts

We recorded this on Election Day too early to talk about polls, so instead we decided to focus on monster trucks, contact lenses, and some other odds and ends. A bit of a life download before we take next week off. See for privacy and opt-out information.
08/11/1852m 28s

117: Make Change

The month has changed, the season continues to change and, if you live in the US, you can help make change on November 6. Vote for something better. Vote for those who've had their voices silenced. Just vote. Maybe even listen to this episode on your way to the polls. See for privacy and opt-out information.
02/11/1852m 27s

116: Happier Parenting

We’re thrilled to have KJ Dell’Antonia join the spiral to talk to us about changing perspectives, realistic expectations, and her her new book: "How to Be a Happier Parent: Raising a Family, Having a Life and Loving (Almost) Every Minute.” Wait, are we being optimistic? Yeah, but don’t worry. We still complain a little. See for privacy and opt-out information.
25/10/1859m 41s

115: Rebrand for Jesus

Hard to believe we can somehow go from missing a week to covering the removal of wisdom teeth, limiting screen time, and remaining responsive and flexible as parents; all in one episode, but that's our gift. What does Jesus have to do with any of this? Just trust us. See for privacy and opt-out information.
19/10/1857m 4s

114: Read the Room

Fortunately and unfortunately, the current happenings in the United States continue to offer great starting points for important conversations with our kids. This week, these talks involve accountability, the power of "no," and how to not be a jerk when you're in a Senate hearing. See for privacy and opt-out information.
04/10/1856m 10s

113: Looking for a Plus for Pleats

Does the awkward feeling of being a teenager in Abercrombie fade when you get older? Nope! It just blends with our inability to understand high waists, pleats, and good 'ol Chuck Taylors. Guess that's all part of pursuing fashion with kids. See for privacy and opt-out information.
27/09/1852m 3s

112: It's September Again

“In like a lion,” isn’t a saying attached to September, but it feels like it should be. From shattered phone screens to some time-struggles associated with homeschool, this is your annual reminder that September is hell. Be kind to yourself. See for privacy and opt-out information.
20/09/1851m 25s

111: Take that Tone

We decided to focus on discipline and... haha! Just kidding. It’s really about the luxuries of leisure pooping and feelings of complete exhaustion, but we do occasionally come back to discipline and having a no-nonsense way of letting your kids know they need to quit being jerks. See for privacy and opt-out information.
13/09/1852m 39s

110: Slowly Settling In

Missed buses, different boob sizes, and baby steps in the right direction. We're still settling in to our recent big changes - a blended family for Heather, homeschooling for John - and realizing that it's going to take a while. We'll probably survive. See for privacy and opt-out information.
07/09/1856m 30s

109: In Favor of Easy

Sponsored by KraftWe've talked about food and family meals and picking your battles and now, with Heather's blended family and John's homeschool adventures, we're all about easing dinner prep however we can. So when Kraft reached out about their new Kraft Mac and Cheese Frozen Meals, we ditched the plain noodles and raided the local freezer section before even answering the email. See for privacy and opt-out information.
30/08/1851m 52s

108: Homeschool Bound

The chaos of normal life has felt a little dull on John’s end, so he decided to homeschool his son. Because how hard could it really be to homeschool a 14-year-old, run a business, and tread water while juggling? Whatever happens, he won’t miss the endless agony of math homework. See for privacy and opt-out information.
23/08/181h 2m

107: A BIG Move

Wait. Heather’s moving again? Hell yes she is! She loves to move! She loves to pack! She loves to unpack! She loves boxes! The only minor difference this time around is that you could probably also say she’s moving for love. As for John, he’s pretty excited for her. See for privacy and opt-out information.
16/08/1853m 12s

106: Good to be Back

It’s been a while but our little summer hiatus has come to an end. Feels good to get back behind the mic, catch up, and what the hell do you mean Leta is no longer registered for school that can’t be possible!? See for privacy and opt-out information.
09/08/1852m 15s

105: Civility is Overrated

Things in America are a bit of mess, but somehow taking a stand against hate seems to bother people. Sure, we're all for civility when it makes sense. But that time is not now. The place is not America. And we see no reason to be civil when so many are being treated without any civility at all. See for privacy and opt-out information.
05/07/1838m 54s

104: Shout Outs!

Long overdue Patreon shout outs! Thanks everyone! And a special shout out to Leah who happened to recognize John in wild. Also, a little bit on body glitter, outdoor music festivals, and that we're absolutely okay with you saying "Hi!" if you see either of us out and about. See for privacy and opt-out information.
28/06/1839m 36s

103: Children. In. Cages.

It’s 2018 and the United States is forcibly separating children from their parents and then holding them in makeshift camps. We don't have a solution, but this needs to be talked about nonstop. This IS America, but it doesn’t need to be.Fortunately, 24 hours after we recorded, Trump signed an executive order stopping the separation of families, but this mess continues as there's no word on how those separated will be reunited. This will forever be a scar on America, and there is nothing we can do to every truly fix the damage done to those most affected. See for privacy and opt-out information.
21/06/1848m 53s

102: Destigmatize

Last week, the world lost Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain. As a result, mental health was again the center of conversation, and we thought it was time to again address the topic. We all need to keep talking about it. We all need to be checking in. We all need to remove the stigma. See for privacy and opt-out information.
14/06/1828m 30s

101: Life Lessons

Promotion crises, teen hormones, and preparing for summer. The end of 8th grade is a pretty significant transition, and here we are. OH MY GOD. And it’s summer break already? How does this even happen? See for privacy and opt-out information.
06/06/1826m 51s

100: Accents Etc.

British accents, miles of wandering, and a little (SPOILER) Gilmore tangent at the end. This is a big milestone - Episode 100! - so it only seems right that we stay true to our spiraling roots. See for privacy and opt-out information.
31/05/1859m 28s

099: London Spiral

Travel, planning, and taking a diet on the road. That's sort of the focus. Maybe. Then again, we also touch on tea, colon surgery, and "2001: A Space Odyssey." Yes, it's a little shorter than normal, but we cover some ground. See for privacy and opt-out information.
24/05/1841m 10s

098: Straight/Curve

Standards of beautify for women are often toxic and impossible to achieve. Award-winning journalist and filmmaker Jenny McQuaile joins us to talk about her newest film, "Straight/Curve: Redefining Body Image," which highlights the industry leaders working to transform these standards and help the world recognize the reality of beauty. See for privacy and opt-out information.
17/05/1859m 6s

097: The Entertainers

As parents, we would kill to feel genuine boredom, but our kids don’t exactly share our interest in doing nothing. And they expect us to overcome these lackluster moments for them. Somehow, go, go, go and then go some more has become the norm. What happened to— oh my god Marlo you can figure it out yourself! See for privacy and opt-out information.
10/05/1854m 55s

096: Be Grateful, Dammit!

Parenting is perfect and wonderful and there isn't ever a time at which you should express exhaustion or frustration. AMEN. At least that's what the concern trolls want to make sure we all know. But the truth is, parenting is hard, sometimes your kids are terrible, and it's okay to admit defeat and/or disgruntled triumph. Even if everything still sucks.  See for privacy and opt-out information.
03/05/1857m 3s

095: Fair Isn't Equal

Inclusion is critical to education, but Heather and John aren't experts in that area, so John's friend Emily is joining the spiral. Emily is a specialist in early childhood inclusion and a single parent to a son with special needs, and all parents and educators are going to want to hear what she has to say. See for privacy and opt-out information.
26/04/181h 0m

094: Here for the Cheesecake

Who knew Beyoncé was so amazing? And what about The Cheesecake Factory? Most people, probably, but not us. Until now. Yeah, it's a big week on MRS. And Heather is DONE with her book. See for privacy and opt-out information.
19/04/1855m 15s

093: Helmets and Heartbreak

Pain in every direction. That's part of having kids. You're forced to relive old injuries while also anticipating the pain that is yet to come. And you have to cope with all of that while working around that damn doctor's appointment you scheduled six months ago. See for privacy and opt-out information.
12/04/1849m 18s

092: Close the Rings

Break is over, Heather’s deadline is looming, time is again compressing, and John’s life is controlled by a watch. On the bright side, Marlo’s illness passed quickly, Lexton’s birthday was seamless, and free-range children are the new cage-free eggs. So, normal week. See for privacy and opt-out information.
05/04/1857m 41s

091: Restorative Justice

Time to talk about racism. Again? ALWAYS. And this week we're joined by Kelly Wickham Hurst, founder of Being Black at School, to talk about education and what it's like for those living in the margins. Is Kelly a "policy wonk?" Damn straight she is, but she's also so much more. See for privacy and opt-out information.
29/03/1855m 43s

090: Rambling Equinox

As the changing daylight hours send anxiety into overdrive, we're staring down spring break and asking, "What the hell?" Of course, tangents are in full swing as we discuss laxative tea, folding clothes, and some part-time jobs of years past. See for privacy and opt-out information.
22/03/1849m 21s

089: Spring Forward and Stumble

Sit down, strap in*, and get ready for a back to basics episode. Everything from Patreon- Hey! We launched our campaign! - and piano, to Daylight Savings Time; and the complete, unabridged history of Heather's sex toy ownership. That last part isn't a joke. See for privacy and opt-out information.
15/03/1853m 31s

088: Tanlines for Toddlers

In 2012, Tanlines (Jesse Cohen and Eric Emm) released their first album and Heather was hooked. She told John to listen and he soon had the album on repeat. Eventually, John's son followed suit. Now, the electronic/indie duo's newest EP, "Presents", puts a very Tanlines spin on classic kid's songs and Jesse joins the spiral to talk about the new album, music, identity, self awareness, and parenting. Oh. And the cuteness of babies. See for privacy and opt-out information.
08/03/181h 12m

087: Beyond Paid Leave

Paid leave is important. So is supporting new parents. The Center for Parental Leave Leadership (CPLL) is helping companies and employees successfully navigate parental leave to improve the experience for everyone involved. Amy Beacom, Founder and CEO of CPLL, joins the spiral to talk about how they're making a difference. See for privacy and opt-out information.
01/03/1853m 38s

086: Never Again

Another tragic school shooting, this time in Parkland, Florida. But something is different. People are paying attention. Because the students from Parkland refuse to be silenced until there is change. Now, as a nation, we must work to understand what needs to happen while helping our children feel safe. See for privacy and opt-out information.
22/02/1855m 2s

085: A Healthy New Year

From smoothies with greens to extra-crunchy cruciferous salads (Sorry, LETA), we're trying to stay as healthy as possible this cold and flu season. Extending these healthy habits to our kids isn't always easy - just ask Heather's kitchen tiles - but some convenient snacks make it possible. Sponsored by GoGo squeeZ. See for privacy and opt-out information.
15/02/1857m 11s

084: The Cost of Zero Weeks

Paid family leaves means you'll still be paid while taking time off to navigating family changes and emergencies (babies, medical issues, etc.). But in America, paid leave is almost nonexistent, and that's a huge problem. Director Ky Dickens, our guest this week, set out to shine a light on this critical issue with her newest film, "Zero Weeks," after having a child of her own. See for privacy and opt-out information.
08/02/1835m 35s

083: The Guilt They Carry

Time for a somber reflection. What? You knew this was coming. Even John has been pretty optimistic lately. Now it's time to ask how parenting affects our kids and the concept they have of how they fit into our bad moods. See for privacy and opt-out information.
01/02/1853m 0s

082: Time to Eat Better Meat

This week, we're joined by Mike Salguero, founder of Butcher Box and father to three girls who are three and under. How does he help families enjoy humanely-raised and independently-farmed meat delivered right to the doorstep while helping wrangle three kids? Honestly, we have no idea, but we tried to find out. See for privacy and opt-out information.
25/01/1847m 13s

081: It Sucked and then I Died

Heather is writing a book! It's not out until February 2019, but it's about depression, a clinical trial that changed her life, and dying. Because, oh yeah, Heather died a few times to get to get better. Turns out there's a way to do that! And John has kept it a secret this whole time. A keeper, that one. See for privacy and opt-out information.
18/01/1848m 49s

080: Happy New News!

It's a new year! That means resolutions, goals, fresh starts and whoa, Heather, it's time to address the elephants in the room. One at a time, of course, because everything in moderation. See for privacy and opt-out information.
11/01/1850m 17s

079: The Other Side

Christmas is over. Everyone is exhausted. The New Year is days away. We'd love to say it's a sprint to the finish, but it's a bit of a limp. Survival isn't always glamorous. See for privacy and opt-out information.
28/12/1755m 12s

078: A Pseudo Year-in-Review

Lots of bad happened in 2017. But there was also a lot of good. A dash of hope. Water rushing from the ceiling. And oh! Let us tell you a road trip story! Yeah, it's one of those episodes. See for privacy and opt-out information.
21/12/1752m 3s

077: Invest in Tissues

Cold season is back. *blow your nose* Tissues are everywhere. *blow your nose* Sometimes we snap at our kids even when we know we shouldn't. *blow your nose* Please tell us we're not alone? *blow your nose* See for privacy and opt-out information.
14/12/1752m 28s

076: Keep It In Your Pants

We recorded on Dec. 5 and woke up the next day to see that Time's Person of the Year 2017 is 'The Silence Breakers.' We're happy to add our voices to this important conversation. Everywhere you turn, it seems another high-profile man is being taken down by sexual harassment. "Keep your hands to yourself" should be easy enough, but it seems many men missed that basic life lesson. Now we're thinking about how to approach the subject with our kids. See for privacy and opt-out information.
07/12/1754m 24s

075: Holiday Pressure

There's a lot of stress around the holidays. Between kids being home and efforts to make everything perfect, it's enough to ruin the whole season. Light-up baby Jesus to the rescue! See for privacy and opt-out information.
30/11/1752m 49s

074: Mostly Thankfulness

Holiday advice from MRS: Don't make it your goal to ruin Thanksgiving with politics. Be open, be kind, and lead by example. However, we definitely took a low-road detour this time around, so that statement is a little hypocritical. Thanks for sticking with us, everyone! See for privacy and opt-out information.
23/11/1754m 2s

073: Coping with Bullies

Kids are a-holes. Okay, that's probably a bit of a sweeping statement; but, when your child is faced with bullies, it's the first thing that comes to mind. And it brings back a flood of memories about how hard life can be when you're an insecure 13-year-old who's just trying to figure things out. See for privacy and opt-out information.
16/11/1753m 32s

072: I Say Jesus, You Say Jesus

Politics, religion, and Twitter. The big three. Sort of. Now that we think about it, it's sort of surprising that sex didn't come up at all. We'll try harder next week. See for privacy and opt-out information.
09/11/1754m 33s

071: Decline to Recline

John is back from Hong Kong, and we're talking travel, jet lag, basic airplane courtesy, and service jobs. Why service jobs? Because they're rough, people can be terrible, and we've both been there so we totally get it. See for privacy and opt-out information.
02/11/1753m 46s

070: Maintaining A Budget

Teaching kids about finances is important and usually the best way to do that is to demonstrate budget-savvy behavior. But that's not always easy. And sometimes it's a unique challenge when you're self-employed. See for privacy and opt-out information.
26/10/1755m 15s

069: Let's Talk About Wills

Yes. We're talking about living wills. It not super uplifting, but it's an important topic. Also, Heather managed to bring up orgasms, so it's not completely grim. See for privacy and opt-out information.
19/10/1750m 29s

068: Fall Risk

Health care, independence and, on yeah, John's brief hospital stay are all part of this week. We also talk about peeing with an audience and international travel because we like variety. See for privacy and opt-out information.
12/10/1752m 27s

067: Staying Level

Sometimes it's tough to stay level-headed. Sometimes it feels damn near impossible when you have to do so while also trying to keep your kids relatively level. Hormones, parenting, life. Awesome. See for privacy and opt-out information.
05/10/1749m 47s

066: Coffee or a Cause

From charities and organizations to individual creative pursuits and business startups, you can give money to a lot of different things. This week we're talking about how and where we give and why we're bringing MRS to Patreon. So tell us: Where should MRS go from here? See for privacy and opt-out information.
28/09/1746m 27s

065: Throat Punch Thursday

For every up, there's at least three downs. Sometimes real life feels a bit relentless. But we're still not going to homeschool our kids even if that would make everything blissfully easy. See for privacy and opt-out information.
21/09/1752m 17s

064: Xploding Guest

Twitter sensation James Breakwell (@XplodingUnicorn) joins MRS this week! He's a father to four girls, he's got a new book on the way ("Only Dead on the Inside: A Parent's Guide to Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse") and he's adding a lot to the conversation. See for privacy and opt-out information.
14/09/1754m 13s

063: Learning Self Care

Life is hard. It's easy to let yourself slip while trying to juggle everything else. Self care - in bad times and in good - is the only way to keep moving forward. See for privacy and opt-out information.
07/09/1748m 58s

062: Back In Session

School's in session! Our routines return! Everything is just as crazy as we imagined it would be! Moral: Learning is hard and it probably never gets any easier. See for privacy and opt-out information.
31/08/1748m 0s

061: Com-Part-Mentalize

Call it survival if you must, but we're trying to figure out how to compartmentalize so we can survive the day-to-day. Heather's one step ahead on this one, but John is determined. Any suggestions? See for privacy and opt-out information.
24/08/1745m 35s

060: Forgive Us, It's Early

We recorded this three hours earlier than normal. Heather is still yawning, John hasn't had coffee, and we spent way too much time talking about purses. See for privacy and opt-out information.
17/08/1745m 24s

059: Well This Is New

Heather is back from Paris, John has some news, summer break is almost over (What the hell?). Funny how life can be beautiful and maddening at the same time. See for privacy and opt-out information.
10/08/1752m 7s

058: Apart but Together? Nah.

Haven't we already talked about being on the same page? Who knows. Probably. Either way, we're at it again because sometimes there's too much "co" in "co-parenting." And how to work with the co-parent is the greenest evergreen topic there is in the world of single-parenting. See for privacy and opt-out information.
27/07/1733m 31s

057: Climbing to Paris

Between travel, work, and parenting, we haven't talked - or recorded - in a while. So we're catching up, dropping balls, and holding on. See for privacy and opt-out information.
13/07/1752m 0s

056: Breaking Again: Boredom, Balance, and Balls

It's summer break, deadlines are looming, and our kids manage to find boredom like it's going out of style. Funny how we still manage to think that all this insanity may eventually pass. See for privacy and opt-out information.
22/06/1751m 14s

055: Issues: Lingering, Upcoming, Ongoing

Sometimes you're attached for life, divorce or not. Who knew the courts would be easier to deal with than Comcast? NOT HEATHER. At least we know common courtesy is still a thing (people ignore). See for privacy and opt-out information.
08/06/1743m 57s

054: Come Hither: What's in a name? A lot.

When you get married (or enter a longterm relationship), you give things up. There are sacrifices. A last name is one of them in some cases. When you have kids, there are others, and this is us thinking out loud about all of these things. See for privacy and opt-out information.
01/06/1747m 46s

053: We'll be trippin': A Bit About Time Away

Heather's returning to life on an airplane before landing for a time in Paris when her girls are in New York. John's looking at 10 days without a kid in tow and wondering what to do. Possible conclusion: DO SOMETHING. ANYTHING. See for privacy and opt-out information.
25/05/1747m 43s

052: Doing A Pulse Check: Another look at mental health

Depression remains an evergreen topic for many people, including us. From children to adults, depression can tear apart families and make life seem unbearable. Here we talk about what has best served us in dark times and how reaching out to those who might be suffering could just be the lifeline they need. See for privacy and opt-out information.
18/05/1746m 57s

051: Love Language: The emphasis here is on "Language."

Mother's Day is this weekend and we were going to honor our moms, but then Heather started talking about dick and the tone changed. Thanks, HEATHER. See for privacy and opt-out information.
11/05/1751m 44s

050: Get Off Our Lawn: When did we turn 50?

Cars, GIFs, music and a bit of reminiscing. This is our 50th episode and somehow we ended up talking about the good ol' days. Modern life is rubbish! See for privacy and opt-out information.
27/04/1749m 9s

049: Two Haircuts, One Episode: This definitely spirals

Tornados, tonsillectomies, teenagers. We covered a lot of ground, but it would be a stretch to say that this came full circle. See for privacy and opt-out information.
20/04/1753m 9s

048: Minivan Livin': Non car people discussing cars

John's shopping for a car, Heather's thinking about a minivan, and they're both completely wonderstruck by today's newfangled vehicles. This episode is all about Bluetooth, hair bows, car payments, and Noah's Ark. See for privacy and opt-out information.
06/04/1751m 16s

047: Music at Heart: Guest Suzie Brown joins the spiral

Part-time mom, part-time singer-songwriter, part-time cardiologist, Suzie Brown joins us to talk about balancing her careers and catching her dreams in the process. See for privacy and opt-out information.
30/03/1748m 37s

046: Full Circle: This is what happens when we go 10 days without talking to each other

"Ready, set, talk!" was this week's method for recording. While trying to juggle this episode into our disjointed schedules, we covered cookies, weddings, teen privileges and probably some other things. See for privacy and opt-out information.
23/03/1751m 31s

045: It's Taxing: Everyone's favorite season is here!

Tax season isn't as exciting as it once was. Remember refunds? Or the days of not having to negotiate tax prep with your ex? Yeah. Good times. See for privacy and opt-out information.
16/03/1750m 58s

044: Dads- The help we didn't know we needed.

This week starts as a recap and then transitions into a ramble before turning into a focus on our dads and how awesome they are. We'd like to say that was intentional, but you'd know better than that. See for privacy and opt-out information.
09/03/1750m 52s

043: The Upside to Downsizing: Ugh, moving

Heather's moving and all hell is breaking loose. Though a smaller space can be a great thing, actually getting to that point is miserable. Here's to a fresh start, a great new neighborhood and some semblance of sanity in the aftermath. See for privacy and opt-out information.
02/03/1751m 30s

042: The Teen Transition: Bracing for the next 5 years

The teen years are upon us. That means dances, dating, and probably reliving a whole slew of things we've spent our adult years trying to forget. But the tumbleweed that is life just keeps tumbling onward. See for privacy and opt-out information.
23/02/1752m 48s

041: Successful Crises: When little nuisances create big problems

From wifi issues to blizzards in Utah, sometimes it doesn't take much to throw off the day. And when we have to deviate, all hell breaks loose, even if only in our heads. See for privacy and opt-out information.
02/02/1750m 36s

040: Taking a Stand: Wanting to march in an inclusive direction

The Woman's March on Washington was last week and we didn't attend. Why? Well, it's complicated. And that's okay. Asking complicated questions, looking at issues with a critical eye, and listening—really listening—isn't being divisive. It's necessary. It's how we learn to do better See for privacy and opt-out information.
26/01/1745m 31s

039: Committing to a Promise: Easier said than done

It's easier to make promises than it is to keep them. Especially when parenting. It's helpful to realize that the only promises you can guarantee are those that are completely in your control. It's even more helpful to not overuse the word "promise." Or maybe just never use it at all. See for privacy and opt-out information.
19/01/1750m 35s

038: Semi-Resolutions: Yes, it's that time again.

Heather has a couple pseudo resolutions, John doesn't have any, but we're both trying to be optimistic for the year ahead. Sure, time is a construct and blah blah blah, but if turning a calendar page helps us cope, we'll take it! See for privacy and opt-out information.
12/01/1748m 57s

037: Stepping on Toes: Understanding Step-Parental Figures

We'll admit it: Sometimes it's hard to see our kids with their step-parental figures. And it's even more difficult seeing our children posted on the internet by this third party. Maybe this all boils down to self awareness. Or common sense. Or both. Are we rambling? Of course, but we're kind of on target. See for privacy and opt-out information.
05/01/1754m 23s

036: Dividing the Holidays: Celebrating separately, together!

It's that time of year again. John was alone for Thanksgiving and now Heather is looking at a solo Christmas. Is there a better way to make this work? That probably depends on who you ask. See for privacy and opt-out information.
22/12/1653m 20s

035: A-OK With Admin Expenses

Now, more than ever, good organizations need your help.The holidays are stressful and 2016 continues to disappoint, but there's work to do! Today we're talking nonprofits (including Farm Forward, the organization Heather is working with), where your donations go, and what we plan to get - or not get - our kids for Christmas. See for privacy and opt-out information.
15/12/1654m 33s

034: Music Foreveryone - Guest Steve Burns on music, emotions and his new album, "Foreverywhere."

If you've had your eyes open at all since 1996, you know Steve Burns from Blue's Clues. But now he’s making music. And it’s awesome. “Foreverywhere,” a psychedelic children's album he made with with Seven Drozd of The Flaming Lips, is out in February 2017 so we’re talking music and whatever else rambled into the conversation. See for privacy and opt-out information.
08/12/1656m 52s

033: The "I" in Team: Communicating with co-parents without becoming a crutch

There's no team and there's no backup. That ended when we went our separate ways. So how do we handle co-parenting discrepancies, difficulties and (unreasonable) requests? No, really. How? This high road is feeling pretty narrow and-- Oh. We just slipped. See for privacy and opt-out information.
24/11/1656m 22s

032: Post Election 2016: A Critical Look at our Stupified Whiteness

On November 8, less than half of the popular vote made Donald Trump the President-elect. The nation responded with tears, protests, letters and a symbolic debate over safety pins. Now we're adding our voices to try and dissect what it all means to help preempt marginalized populations from losing more ground, and to try and figure out how to navigate the conversation at Thanksgiving. See for privacy and opt-out information.
17/11/1656m 45s

031: Asking for Help - It's not a weakness, but it feels like one

We've spent most of our lives intentionally not asking for help for various reasons and it's a difficult habit to break. But if we want our kids to know it's okay to ask, it's probably time for us to demonstrate the action. Does that also mean accepting help when it's offered? Ugh. See for privacy and opt-out information.
03/11/1650m 48s

030: We're Down with PTC: Sometimes Conferences Go Right

It's conference season! You know what that means? Our kids get evaluated! Our parenting gets evaluated! Our flaws are highlighted! Time to crawl und-- Wait. She what? See for privacy and opt-out information.
27/10/1656m 52s

029: Manic Rambling Marathon: We ran the Chicago marathon. This is what we thought about it.

The 2016 Chicago Marathon was Heather's third marathon and John's first. It was marked by perfect weather, an amazing group of people from Every Mother Counts, and a great weekend overall. There was also pain, excitement, regret, no regret, a lost FitBit and profanity at mile 15. See for privacy and opt-out information.
20/10/1655m 28s

028: Things That Don't Matter

Alpacas, like life, are equal parts enjoyable and vicious, but it's the experience that counts. Over the years, we've both decided that experiences are better than things. So with outdated computers and old phones, we look at enjoying life with the voracity of a dominant alpaca. Sort of. See for privacy and opt-out information.
05/10/1657m 24s

027: Snot, Sniffles, and Some Thoughts

Heather is sick. Full stop.Marlo got sick and, out of love, shared it with Heather. Yes, kids really are fun! We could have cancelled the recording, but there'd be no adventure in that. So we plowed through and rambled on. You're welcome. COUGH. Or we're sorry? See for privacy and opt-out information.
29/09/1658m 49s

026: Picking Battles with Picky Eaters

Choosing mealtime enjoyment over food fights and frustration.Cooking for one can be tricky. Cooking for one times two or three or more can be downright maddening. But if everyone is happy, well fed, and gathered around a table together, that has to count for something. Right? Fine. Warm your own damn burrito. See for privacy and opt-out information.
22/09/1658m 49s

025: Evaluating the Replacement

Talking to kids about your ex's new relationship.Introducing a new relationship is one thing, talking to your kids about this new person is something else entirely. From the high road and the cheap seats, we're talking about what to say and not say when kids ask questions, apply labels, and hurl insults (that make you laugh). See for privacy and opt-out information.
15/09/1658m 45s

024: Nature vs. Nurture vs. Hygiene

Because self care definitely doesn't come naturally to kids.We both have 12-year-olds, and that means hygiene is becoming a topic of interest. From shaving legs, to applying deodorant, to a discussion regarding the delicacy of John's nipples, this week is all about physical self care. Oh, and school lunch. But don't worry, it comes full circle. See for privacy and opt-out information.
08/09/1657m 41s

023: Bemoaning the Bell Schedule

School is back in session and we're back in the corner whimpering quietly.Another school year already? How many two pocket poly folders? How about a nice Trapper Keeper? Is this really be happening? What grade? All this and more will be left unanswered in this week's back-to-school spiral. Grab a Lunchable and enjoy! See for privacy and opt-out information.
01/09/1659m 34s

022: Fun with Funeral Potatoes

Religion is a personal choice. How parents approach it with their kids should be as well. Amen.Heather is an atheist, John is an agnostic and their kids are little horned heathens. Just kidding. The kids are doing fine. So how do they raise kind, balanced humans without religion at the center of everything? Carefully, respectfully, and with the memory of funeral potatoes and Dan Quayle. See for privacy and opt-out information.
11/08/1653m 30s

021: An Ode to Student Loans

We rambled again and somehow this is where we ended up.It's funny how time away from our kids lets us step back a bit to reflect on past relationships, homework strategies, and being promiscuously Mormon. Even more amusing is how it all spirals into a lament about student loans (Heather doesn't have any and John isn't AT ALL bitter about that). See for privacy and opt-out information.
04/08/1656m 0s

020: Parental Download

Co-parents usually enjoy a regular download of information, but  single parents aren't as lucky. This week we're happy to be joined by Assistant Professor Hillary Hyde. As a single - or, rather, solo - parent with considerable professional experience working with children and families, she's got a lot to add to our ongoing conversation. And she's got a theory as to why some of this is so difficult. But just some of it.Photo Credit: Matthew Kulisch Photography See for privacy and opt-out information.
28/07/161h 9m

019: Start Seeing Color

Yes, we're white. And yes, we're probably wrong about a lot of this. But we need to be talking about race and we need to be talking to our kids about race and we need to try to do be better. To say things better. To be better. See for privacy and opt-out information.
21/07/1656m 22s

018: Sanity Maintenance

Tackling our own mental health with openness, honesty, and kids at our sides.Mental health is important, but it's difficult to maintain and "easy" to ignore (for a while). From deeply entrenched social stigmas to concerns regarding how to address things like anxiety and depression with our kids, it's a lot to juggle. But mental health is one ball we won't drop beca--oh hell. We dropped it. Five second rule! See for privacy and opt-out information.
14/07/1649m 55s

017: Resenting Resentment

Discussing that special feeling you get when you resent the wrong people (your children) for the right reasons (maybe?)Is there difficulty and contentment? Yep! But there's also a whole slew of misplaced frustration, resentment, and GUILT when you're trying to do "what's best" - whatever the hell that means - for your kids. Maybe that's what happens when life is a bit like trial and error and error and error and "UGH! Why do you have to work!?" See for privacy and opt-out information.
07/07/1656m 18s

016: Sharing Versus Caring

Deciding what we share about our kids has some complications now that we're single parents. Deciding what to share in the social space (blogs, social media, PODCASTS) can be a big decision. When you have kids, that decision grows. When you get divorced or separated, it grows again. We've crossed our share of hurdles - and, ahem, mediators - to get to our current sharing state, but it still isn't necessarily easy. See for privacy and opt-out information.
30/06/1651m 16s

015: Summer Breaking Point

Looking forward, looking back, and looking a bit pruney.Burnout is real and so it summer break. This week we're talking about how to tackle the day to day with our kids home for summer, lamenting the "good ol' days" of being an unrestricted kid, and teaching Heather how to use the "Do Not Disturb" function on her iPhone. See for privacy and opt-out information.
23/06/1654m 1s

014: Frat Boys on Vacation

The logistics, lamentations, and laughable ideals of traveling with kids.As our kids have gotten older, it's become easier to travel with them but, in some ways, harder to travel without them. This week we talk about passports, travel permission letters, trashed hotel rooms, and when to remove - or NOT remove - your shoes. See for privacy and opt-out information.
16/06/1652m 35s

013: A Tender Tinder Spiral

Sometimes this podcast is the only way we manage to catch up between travel, kid chaos, and texting random bits of insanity back and forth. This is one of those times. But mostly we just talked about cleaning, Tinder, the simple sexual expectations of men, and banana “ice cream.” See for privacy and opt-out information.
09/06/1658m 24s

012: Divorce is Forever

We separated because we just wanted to be friends with our exes. Okay, that's not entirely true, but we both think that staying on the best possible terms with them is in the best interest of our kids. So how do we make it work? Well, it's gotten better, but we're still figuring that out (one glass of bourbon at a time). See for privacy and opt-out information.
02/06/161h 1m

011: Nine Ways to Jesus, One Way to Chicago

This episode is a bit of a rambling spiral about Heather's experience in Boston (one hell of an experience!), John's decision to run the Chicago Marathon because Heather suckered him into it, and what these sort of endeavors mean to us as people and parents. Yeah, they mean we're crazy, but it's more than that. See for privacy and opt-out information.
26/05/1651m 58s

010: Listener Stories and Medal Ceremonies

We're finally sorting listener emails and directly addressing the “Pain Olympics." See for privacy and opt-out information.
19/05/1647m 13s

009: Talking to the Fence

What to say - or NOT say - to people who are trying to decide if they want to have kids. See for privacy and opt-out information.
12/05/1658m 29s

008: Fine, it’s not ALL bad

Exploring contentment as a single parent.(as an aside, the cover art does not believe us) See for privacy and opt-out information.
05/05/1657m 34s

007: A Genuine Rambling Spiral

Outlines be damned! Time to let the conversation flow! See for privacy and opt-out information.
28/04/1656m 6s

006: A Love-Hate with Loneliness

Dealing with loneliness when you’re (almost) never alone See for privacy and opt-out information.
21/04/161h 0m

005: Run. Because you can't hide.

Trying to Fit in Exercise When Your Kids Have other Plans See for privacy and opt-out information.
14/04/1656m 40s

004: It's Not OK, Cupid

Wading back into the dating pool while our kids wait (and wonder nervously) on the shore. See for privacy and opt-out information.
07/04/161h 0m

003: Sick as a Cat

Meeting Deadlines as a Parent When the Kids are Home Sick See for privacy and opt-out information.
31/03/1651m 12s

002: She Eloped Without Me

Becoming a Single Parent When the Other Parent Remarries Without Warning See for privacy and opt-out information.
24/03/1658m 51s

001: That Crazy River

Becoming a Single Parent When the Other Parent RelocatesWhat is 'Manic Rambling Spiral?' How did Heather B. Armstrong, queen of the mommy bloggers, become a full-time single parent? That wasn't supposed to be a part of the script. And who the hell is John Bray? See for privacy and opt-out information.
17/03/1654m 6s


Just what is Manic Rambling Spiral? Here's a quick taste of it. See for privacy and opt-out information.
14/03/161m 32s
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