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Endless Thread

Untold histories, unsolved mysteries, and other jaw-dropping stories online and IRL. Hosted by Ben Brock Johnson &amp; Amory Sivertson.

WBUR

The 190 passengers of a United Airlines flight from Newark, New Jersey to Palma de Mallorca, Spain had settled into their seats for their overnight flight when the captain gave an announcement: everyone had to turn off their Bluetooth devices — or he was going to turn around the plane. This confounded passengers, because Bluetooth is safe for airplanes. It stays enabled when devices are on airplane mode. United even encourages using Bluetooth headphones to connect to in-flight entertainment.
What was going on? The flight crew couldn't say. So the passengers took to...where else? Reddit.
Show notes:



UA flight - 'turn bluetooth off or we're turning around' (Reddit)



This episode was reported and produced by Grace Tatter, and co-hosted by Grace Tatter, Amory Sivertson and Ben Brock Johnson. It was edited by Dave Shaw. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski and Paul Vaitkus.

'Turn Bluetooth off, or we're turning around.'

The brand Fruit of the Loom is almost ubiquitous in the world of underwear and casual wear. You have likely seen its logo, if not on your own body, on store racks or at least in ads. Now, in your mind's eye, picture it. What do you see?
For years, countless people have been taking to the internet to share their memory of the Fruit of the Loom logo. A lot of them have the same memory – a basket, rather, a cornucopia of fruit.
But they're all wrong. At least, Fruit of the Loom claims that is has never had a cornucopia in its logo and there is little concrete evidence to suggest that the brand is lying. So what could be behind this collective misremembering?
This week on Endless Thread, Ben and Amory embark on a quest for answers: Is the Fruit of the Loom cornucopia simply an example of the Mandela Effect (a pervasive mass-misremembering of a fact or event), or has someone pulled the woolen underwear over our eyes?
Show notes:

Has the 'Fruit of the Loom' Logo Ever Contained a Cornucopia? (Snopes)
Black T-Shirt logo (Reddit)
Alan's Reddit post 

This episode was produced by Frannie Monahan and co-hosted by Amory Sivertson and Ben Brock Johnson. It was edited by Dave Shaw. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

Fruit of the Loom: Horn of Lies

This week on Endless Thread it's a producer takeover with Grace Tatter and Kalyani Saxena serving up some delicious online stories. First, Kalyani digs into why the internet is so hungry for perpetual stews (a stew that is simmered and added on to in perpetuity). Then, Grace dishes on a listener conundrum about whether salty Reddit posts are worse for us than sweet ones.
Show notes:

ZAQ_Makes' Stewtheus (TikTok)
Want to try perpetual stew? Some tips for avoiding foodborne illness (NPR)
r/GirlDinnerDiaries (Reddit)
Does Venting Your Feelings Actually Help? (Greater Good Magazine)
Endless Thread Subreddit 

This episode was produced by Frannie Monahan and co-hosted by Kalyani Saxena and Grace Tatter. It was edited by Dave Shaw. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

The internet is a perpetual stew

Long before TikTok dances, there was the Dougie.
In 2010, Cali Swag District’s “Teach Me How to Dougie” went worldwide, and for the decade-plus since, people have been trying to learn the viral moves.
More than 15 years later, a Korean TikTok creator went viral for doing the Dougie… badly. He claimed to be learning how to do the Dougie day-by-day – but his moves were so stiff and awkward, viewers from around the world – including Endless Thread producer Kalyani Saxena — were suspicious. Was @JBStarMax faking being bad at the Dougie? Kalyani presents her investigation to Ben and Amory.
Show notes:

“Day 1 of learning to do the Dougie until I can do it smoothly” (@JBStarMax on TikTok)
Breakdancing (@JBStarMax on TikTok)
Know Your L.A. Hip-Hop Dances: The Controversial Origin Story of The Dougie (LA Weekly)
Ben does the crabwalk, and Amory does the worm (WBUR)

This episode was produced by Grace Tatter and co-hosted by Kalyani Saxena, Ben Brock Johnson, and Amory Sivertson. It was edited by Dave Shaw. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski.

Teach us how to Dougie

Kurt Gödel was a genius mathematician and logician, considered by many scholars to be as influential as Aristotle. He was also buddies with fellow geniuses Albert Einstein and Oskar Morgenstern, the co-creator of Game Theory.
In 1947, Gödel told Morgenstern and Einstein he had identified an inner contradiction in the U.S. Constitution while studying for his citizenship test: the type of loophole that could plunge the United States into a dictatorship not unlike the Nazi regime Gödel had escaped when he immigrated from Austria.
So, what was the loophole? Over the years, everyone from Constitutional law scholars to laypeople on Reddit have wondered. Endless Thread plumbs the depths of Gödel's galaxy brain with the help of philosopher, writer and Gödel expert Rebecca Newberger Goldstein — and learns some surprising lessons about artificial intelligence, a German shorthand called Gabelsberger, and democracy along the way.
Show notes:

Incompleteness: The Proof and Paradox of Kurt Gödel, by Rebecca Newberger Goldstein (Amazon)
Oskar Morgenstern's account of Kurt Gödel's naturalization (Institute of Advanced Study)

This episode was produced by Grace Tatter. It was co-written by Grace Tatter and Ben Brock Johnson, co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson, and edited by Meg Cramer and Dave Shaw. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

The Lost Loophole

The climate crisis is escalating. We have to decarbonize our economy, but we’re moving too slowly. So, what’s the backup plan? This season of How We Survive is about engineering nature: large-scale interventions that could be our last hope. We’ll explore technology that could alter our weather patterns, transform our planet, and possibly save us all from the worst outcomes of the climate crisis. Or lead to catastrophic, unintended consequences. 
In this episode, host Amy Scott travels to the Bay Area to learn about a controversial solution to the climate crisis. It’s called solar geoengineering, and it’s basically a way to dim the sun to cool the planet. Some proponents view this as a necessary intervention, while others are not convinced. And while solar geoengineering is happening at a small scale, what happens if a rogue nation…or a rogue billionaire…makes the decision for us?
Listen to How We Survive wherever you get your podcasts: https://link.podtrac.com/kobh1a3u

How to Dim the Sun, from Marketplace's How We Survive

Most of us know the internet isn't a particularly private place. Yet there's a certain feeling of anonymity that comes with sharing online — our words and stories mixed in with millions of others. It's easy to think no one is watching.
But your data isn't just vulnerable to prying eyes. It's for sale. And the government is buying it up to keep a closer eye on you — and all of us.
This week, hosts Amory and Ben take a chilling look at how our social media is used for surveillance with Dell Cameron, an investigative reporter with WIRED covering privacy and national security.

ICE Wants to Build Out a 24/7 Social Media Surveillance Team (WIRED)
Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts (The New York Times)
ICE has spun a massive surveillance web. We talked to people caught in it (NPR)
To reach Endless Thread on Signal: 646-456-9095


This episode was written and produced by Kalyani Saxena and co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. It was edited by Dave Shaw and Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Marquis Neal

Socials for Sale

This episode was originally published on March 21, 2025. 
There are moments that define each of our lives. Some we can predict: graduations, marriages, births, deaths. Others? Not so much.
And in the year 2025, when the stars aligned just so, you may have found that moment explode online.
That's what happened to 23-year-old Adrián Simancas. Last year in Feb. 2025, Adrián was paddling the Straight of Magellan, with his father Dell, when the unimaginable happened: a humpback whale emerged from the water and engulfed him in its open mouth — and his father captured it all on video. Almost immediately, the video went viral.
Simancas sat down with Endless Thread to discuss his whale tale, the deluge of attention that followed, and what he's learned from his intimate moment with nature.
Show notes: 

Video of Adrián's whale encounter. We originally saw it on the Reddit thread: r/ThatsInsane
Adrián Simanca's Youtube channel
Dell Simanca's Youtube channel
Did a whale swallow a kayaker? The truth behind the viral video (NPR)


Encore: Adrián and the Whale

Sit back, relax and get cozy. As a matter of fact, why not put on your baggiest of clothes and burrow down in your snuggiest of blankets?  This week on Endless Thread, Ben and Amory are comfy-maxxing. They'll discuss how the internet is delivering comfort right now, including a look at delicious foods from childhood and an intriguing tip on how to sleep better at night.
Show notes:

Calling all dad's... Whats your easy go to dinners?! (Reddit)
What’s your favorite comfort food from your culture? (Reddit)
My weird but effective sleep trick: pretend I’m a medieval peasant (Reddit)
Amory's favorite vegan mozzarella recipe by Miyoko Schinner

This episode was produced by Kalyani Saxena and co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. It was edited by Dave Shaw. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

Comfort maxxing on the interwebs

Once upon a dimly lit hallway, Ben and Amory stumbled onto a beloved brainchild of the internet: Backrooms. It began as a "creepypasta"— a horror story or concept that originates online and often becomes a meme — based on the idea of glitching into an inescapable prison of empty rooms. Back in 2020, Endless Thread discussed how this chilling kernel of internet lore migrated from 4chan to Reddit. Now, "Backrooms" is a major motion picture from A24.
Amory and Ben take a little field trip to the theater to see the film and discuss how the concept holds up in the hands of Hollywood.

Back to the Backrooms!

Journalist Leon Neyfakh — known for the podcasts Slow Burn, Fiasco, and Backfired —  wanted to know more about the massively popular and sprawling online ecosystem of OnlyFans. What are its nearly 400 million users really getting from it, and what can that tell all of us about relationships forged online? To find out, he teamed up with Gracie Canaan, a stand-up comedian and OnlyFans creator.
Ben and Amory sat down with them at the WBUR Festival to hear all about their new podcast for Audible, OnlyFantasy, in which they examine this bustling digital marketplace of sex and emotions, and try to understand the role it plays in the lives and relationships of the buyers and sellers.
Show notes:
OnlyFantasy (Audible)
This conversation was produced by Amory Sivertson and Ben Brock Johnson. It was edited down by Grace Tatter. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

Endless Thread on OnlyFans

Jeremy Rellosa used to watch TV shows and movies from the '90s and revel in how the characters walked around untethered to a smartphone, with no expectations of constant connectivity. So he decided to run an experiment on himself: he'd live for at least two weeks without a smartphone. No Slack. No text messages. No Instagram or WhatsApp. If his friends, family, or boss wanted to reach him, they'd have to call him on his landline.
Sure, landlines were the norm just a couple of decades ago. But in our always-online world, how feasible is the landline life, really? Ben and Amory call Jeremy up to find out.
Show notes:
"I Turned Off My Phone for a Month and Used a Landline" (New York Magazine)
This episode was written and produced by Grace Tatter and edited by Meg Cramer and Dave Shaw. It was co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

Leave a message after the beep

Try reading this description as fast as you can: Ben and Amory zoom through two internet stories connected to speed running, including a look at a mysterious object on Reddit and an online trend directed at the Church of Scientology.
Show notes:

Found in my son’s room (Reddit)
Storming Scientology Buildings: TikTok Trend or Hate Crime?  (The New York Times)
What is a ‘Scientology speedrun’ and why is social media suddenly obsessed with it? (The Guardian)


The Church of Speedrun!

Some Internet trends are temporary, but eggs are forever. Today, host Ben Brock Johnson serves up a story about a recipe that, according to the people of r/pickled, can't be beat, and producer Kalyani Saxena egg-splores online discourse around Korean mayak eggs, and why it matters which creators get credit for their popularity.
Show notes:

"Been a few years now. Figured I’d share my recipe." (r/pickling)
The eggs so addictive authorities want to change their name (The Sydney Morning Herald)
How a South Korean comfort food went global (BBC)
"Marinade recipe" (@courtneylcook's TikTok)
"we've officially lost the plot (@beefyboiii's TikTok)
@princess.paulai on Courtney Cook's mayak egg content (TikTok)

This episode was produced by Grace Tatter and researched and co-hosted by Kalyani Saxena and Ben Brock Johnson. It was edited by Dave Shaw and Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

Endless Egg

Of all the internet communities in all the world, you walked into ours.
Hosts Ben and Amory pay homage to the magic of chance encounters with producer Grace Tatter. Together, they explore the ways in which the internet fuels random yet delightful meetings between strangers online, from a website where you can impersonate ChatGPT to Craigslist's beloved Missed Connections page.
Show notes:

YourAISlopBores.Me 
What Craigslist’s missed connections are still good for  (The Bold Italic)

Credits: This episode was produced by Kalyani Saxena. Mix and sound design by Marquis Neal. It was edited by Meg Cramer and Dave Shaw, and hosted by Ben Brock Johnson, Amory Sivertson, and Grace Tatter.

Manifesting an online rom-com existence

Comedian Ben Palmer set up a fake tip line for reporting immigrants in the United States suspected of not having legal status. He recorded the conversations, and things... got uncomfortable and, in some cases, disturbing. But for a lot of viewers, these calls were surprisingly funny. How does Ben Palmer withstand the awkwardness and maintain his deadpan delivery as he trolls unsuspecting Americans trying to get their neighbors deported? And how did he go from being your average stand-up comic, doing sets after his day job, to creating viral social commentary full-time?
Show notes:

He made a fake ICE deportation tip line. Then a kindergarten teacher called. (Washington Post)
God, Country, Family (YouTube)
Ben Palmer's YouTube Channel (YouTube)

This episode was written and produced by Grace Tatter. It was co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson, and edited by Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

Ben Palmer's Brain

Introducing The Midnight Rebellion, a new climate fiction podcast from WBUR — a rollicking adventure to a flooded, robot-infested world where you choose what happens.
When Joule Watts-Green steps into her mom’s mysterious machine, she’s swept off to a polluted city of tides. Streets are rivers, “tin-skins” shoot lightning, and everyone eats gooey Algae-Os. To get home, Joule must be brave, clever, and make friends. She may even discover how to save the world — with your help.
Each chapter ends with a choice. YOU decide what’s next. This is Chapter 1.
Triumph or failure, it’s up to you.
Choose wisely.
This is Chapter 1 of The Midnight Rebellion.
And if you liked what you heard, listen to the rest and follow The Midnight Rebellion wherever you get your podcasts.

Endless Thread presents "The Midnight Rebellion"

Ben and Amory take a hike with producer Grace, following the digital trail of  "Ridiculoubs" — a mysterious climber who traverses the world's peaks in striking footwear. Then, Amory celebrates the beauty of daily life with the Dull Women's Club, a Facebook group with nearly 1.6 million members.
Show notes:

"Ridiculoubs" Reviews (Google Maps)
Ridiculoubs (Instagram)
Dull Women’s Club (Facebook)
Dull Women’s Club celebrating the ordinary

 
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Extraordinary vs. Extra Ordinary

Endless Thread goes to space! First, host Ben Brock Johnson goes deep on radio signals of unknown origin, with an assist from real-life radio astronomer and Reddit MVP Yvette Cendes, aka, Andromeda321. Then, producer Kalyani Saxena takes Ben down the metaphorical black hole of Saturn's hexagonal storm, a massive vortex twice the width of the Earth that's inspired internet conspiracy theories every bit as unweildy.
Show notes:

This storm never ends: Saturn’s north pole (Reddit)
Cassini Images Bizarre Hexagon on Saturn (NASA)
Cassini: Saturn's Perplexing Hexagon (NASA)

Credits: This episode was produced by Grace Tatter. It was researched and co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Kalyani Saxena, and edited by Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus. Episode art credit of NASA.
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Close Encounters of the Hexagonal Kind

What's your favorite color? If you ask the algorithm, the answer is probably beige. The  internet loves neutrals. Aesthetic coffee shop videos feature white walls and minimalist decor. Influencers film from houses decked out with all the beige fixings. When you shop online, you'll be presented with products in a wide range of bland colors — from eggshell, to taupe, to... slightly darker taupe.
So where did all the color go?
Hayley DeRoche, a librarian and writer known as SadBeige on Tiktok, has been watching this unfold for a while. Hosts Ben and Amory talk with Hayley about the internet's love affair with beige and discuss her new book “Dress Your Baby In Sage and Taupe: A Handbook for the Sad Beige Parent.” 
Show notes:

SadBeige (TikTok)
The tyranny of the algorithm: why every coffee shop looks the same (The Guardian)
You read that white: Pantone's 2026 Color of the Year is 'Cloud Dancer' (NPR)

Credits: This episode was produced by Kalyani Saxena, and co-hosted by Amory Sivertson and Ben Brock Johnson. It was edited by Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Marquis Neal.

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A Beige New World

When you think of rapper Afroman, chances are his early 2000s hit song "Because I Got High" is already playing in your mind. More than two decades later, his music has once again broken containment. Host Ben Brock Johnson and Producer Grace Tatter dig into how Afroman turned a police raid and defamation trial into another moment of internet virality.
Show notes:

Afroman surveillance footage (Instagram)
"These lemon poundcake shirts are going fast !!!"(Instagram)
Cop Says Afroman's False 'Pedophile' Claim Caused Him To Quit Sheriff's Office (YouTube)

Credits: This episode was produced by Grace Tatter and Kalyani Saxena, and co-hosted by Grace Tatter and Ben Brock Johnson. It was edited by Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Marquis Neal.


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How Afroman turned lemons into lemon pound cake

In this throwback from the Endless Thread archives, hosts Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson revisit an episode from 2024.
In 2022, a TikTok creator who identifies herself as "Kala" began digging. What followed was an increasingly viral series of TikToks chronicling the efforts of Kala, who some on the internet dubbed "Tunnel Girl," as she excavated and constructed a tunnel system under her suburban home. Her more than half-million followers watched and weighed in with support, suggestions and, at times, concern. That is, until a stop-work order halted the project in its tracks.
Two years later, we have some updates on the story.
This episode was originally published on February 02, 2024. It was produced by Katelyn Harrop and co-hosted by Katelyn Harrop, Ben Brock Johnson, and Amory Sivertson. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski.


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Rewind: Digging Deep with TikTok's "tunnel girl"

Warning: This episode contains multitudes! Hosts Ben and Amory explore how viral clips of DOGE staffers' video depositions found a new life online after a judge temporarily ordered them removed. They also dabble in a Reddit thought exercise with a potentially dubious origin
Show notes:

DOGE staffer who flagged grants for 'DEI' struggles to define the term (The Independent)
LPT: I started pretending my life is a TV show and it made me more productive (Reddit)

Credits: This episode was produced by Kalyani Saxena and hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. It was edited by Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Marquis Neal.



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Beautiful, Terrible Internet

Maybe you can't judge books by their covers. But can you judge people by their books? Reddit's bookshelf detectives say yes. Producer Kalyani Saxena guides hosts Ben and Amory through the stacks and offers a picture of her own bookshelf to the Reddit detectives as tribute.

r/BookshelvesDetective (Reddit)
Started seeing this guy. What does it say about him??
(r/BookshelvesDetective)What do my wife's bookshelves say about her? (r/BookshelvesDetective)
What’s his bookshelf say about him? (r/BookshelvesDetective)
Snoop our bookshelves! (r/EndlessThread)

This episode was produced by Kalyani Saxena and Grace Tatter. It was co-hosted by Kalyani Saxena, Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson, and edited by Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Marquis Neal.
***
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Sexy spines or literary red flags?

A woman sitting blissfully on a vibrating laundromat dryer. A faked pregnancy test to dump a bad boyfriend. In 2019, the internet was abuzz about bizarre ads for a mobile game called Lily's Garden. The ads were only about 15 seconds each, but they evoked a whole universe of drama amongst a cast of zany characters that inspired countless YouTube videos and copious internet chatter.
The thing is... the story in the ads had almost nothing to do with the story in the game. In this episode of Endless Thread: creative differences, the wilderness of mobile games, and where the Lily's Garden game-world and the ad-world diverged.
Show notes:

Lily's Garden on the App Store
Lily's Garden on Google Play
"I hate Lily's Garden and her teeth" (PewDiePie, YouTube)
How Tactile Games made marketing and diversity core to Lily’s Garden’s $500 million success (Pocket Gamer)

This episode was produced and written by Grace Tatter, co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson, and edited by Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus. Special thanks to our 2025 Bloomberg Arts Intern Cendy Charles. 
***
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Digging Up Lily's Garden

 Note: This episode describes sexual situations that are non-consensual.
Sharing a photo of yourself online has always carried some risk. But things got a lot scarier this year when users began using Grok, X's generative AI chatbot to create sexualized deepfakes of women and children. Iona Fyfe, Scottish folk singer and activist, was one of the people who had an image altered and manipulated by Grok. Hosts Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson talk to her about her experience.
****
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What it's like to be undressed by Grok without your consent

Some rare folks are born with the perfect music taste. But most of us have to look elsewhere for a tune that sparks a shoulder shimmy or two. Hosts Ben and Amory spend some time jamming to obscure music from Reddit. They also explore how a TikTok original became Dr. Pepper's catchy new jingle. 
And "baby, it's good and nice."
Show notes:

I wasn't sure on this one at first, but you can't beat the messaging. (Reddit)
Boko Yout [9-2-5] (Reddit)
Molly by Ecca Vandal
Theme Song for Dr. Pepper: Let's Collaborate! (TikTok)
Dr. Pepper's Viral Jingle Moment Has Everyone Pitching Songs to Brands (Atlanta Black Star)
Beautiful and unique music. Hope someone an share details about her and the music (Reddit)
everyday_naturalist 
christycoysh


Obscure music is good and nice!

Melania, a documentary about the first lady, has a 10 percent score on Rotten Tomatoes from critics, but a 90 percent score from audience members, an unusual discrepancy that raises the question, how did Rotten Tomatoes get those scores anyway?
Show notes:

The 'Melania' movie audience: Older white women
(NPR)
Melania’s Movie Shows Signs of Bulk Buying to Boost Box Office: Guru (The Daily Beast)
You Can Thank 'Rush Hour' for Rotten Tomatoes (Vice)
Rotten Tomatoes Owner Says ‘Melania’ 99% Audience Score Is Not ‘Bot Manipulation’: ‘Reviews Are Verified… Users Bought a Ticket to the Film’ (Variety)

Credits: This episode was produced by Kalyani Saxena and Grace Tatter. It was co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Kalyani Saxena, and edited by Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

Fresh, stale, or politics? The Melania doc's Rotten Tomatoes score, explained

In this OG throwback from the Endless Thread archives, hosts Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson revisit a classic episode from their first year of production in 2018.
Originally produced during the show's early partnership with Reddit, "Love in Transition" explores the most powerful emotion in the universe in all its forms, shapes, and sizes. This might just be your perfect weekend listen, celebrating a timeless story about affection and the many ways we experience love today.

Rewind: Love In Transition

In the 1980s, a moral panic swept across America. Parents, prosecutors, and talk show hosts became convinced that devil worshippers were hiding in plain sight, abusing children at daycares, performing ritualistic sacrifices, and corrupting the innocent.
Sarah Marshall of You're Wrong About has a new podcast about this period of Satanic Panic called  The Devil You Know. She talks to Ben and Amory about the cultural forces that turned unfounded fears into a nationwide hysteria, and how would the Satanic Panic might have unfolded differently in today's  age of social media.
Credits: This episode was produced by Amory Sivertson with assistance from Grace Tatter. It was co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson, and edited by Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

You're Wrong About the Satanic Panic

What temperature do you like your fruit? What is the correct way to peel a banana? This week on Endless Thread, Ben and Amory cherry pick a couple of the hottest fruit debates taking place on Reddit.
Show notes:

My husband is mildly infuriated that I open a banana from the antenna side! (Reddit)
CMV: The only correct way to peel and eat a banana is from the bottom. (Reddit)
Microwaving fruit is the way to go (Reddit)
I believe that fruit is better microwaved. (Reddit)

This content was originally created for audio. An auto-generated transcript is available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Heads up that some elements (i.e. music, sound effects, tone) are harder to translate to text.

Hot (and not) fruit takes

In 1970, a young biologist named David Mech published what could be the most consequential book on wolves ever written. At the time, The Wolf: The Ecology and Behavior of an Endangered Species, was the most complete collection of scientific knowledge on wolves money could buy, and it became best seller for Dave's publishers. But outside of the world of wolf biology, the book is also credited with unleashing a certain idea into our popular lexicon: The Alpha.
The thing is, Dave made a mistake – and the alpha wolf, doesn't exist.
This week on Endless Thread, Ben and Amory track down the origins of "the alpha," and whether this idea – which has been recanted by the very scientist who popularized it – has any legitimacy when talking about people.
Show notes:

The Myth of the Alpha Wolf (The New Yorker)*
Do alpha males even exist? (The Guardian)
Elon Musk Shares Theory That Only ‘Alpha Males’ Should Vote (Newsweek)

This content was originally created for audio. An auto-generated transcript is available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Heads up that some elements (i.e. music, sound effects, tone) are harder to translate to text.

The Alpha Male Myth

Fast-and-cheap shipping is now foundational to the American way of life, thanks in large part to Amazon Prime. Still, when producer Grace Tatter sees a video of a man claiming that he's continuously ordering and returning an 110-pound anvil from Amazon with no repercussions from the tech giant, she has questions. Is this legit, or is it a Wile E. Coyote-level scheme? Unlike an anvil, the answer can't be found online.
Show notes:

"this guy has been buying and returning 110lb anvils on Amazon for 8 months now"
(Reddit)
This man keeps buying and returning 110- anvils on Amazon (Fast Company)
Johnbo's TikTok

This episode was produced by Grace Tatter, and co-hosted by Grace Tatter, Ben Brock Johnson, and Amory Sivertson. It was edited by Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski.
 

The Anvillain

Adam Aleksic's Roman Empire is language, particularly how algorithms are changing the way we all use words. This week, Endless Thread gets algospeak-pilled and learns how "unalive" spread from a kids' Spider-Man cartoon to TikTok mental health communities trying to avoid censorship; what we're really saying when we say we're "goblin-core," and whether this all means we're "cooked."
Show notes:
Algospeak: How Social Media Is Transforming the Future of Language 
This episode was produced by Grace Tatter, edited by Meg Cramer, and co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

Algospeak

10 years ago, Justin found himself on the side of the road with a blown out tire. Hours went by and no one stopped to help. But just as he was about to give up, something happened that changed Justin forever.
This episode was originally published on Nov. 13, 2020.

Rewind: Today You, Tomorrow Me: Why A Decade-Old Reddit Comment Still Resonates Today

Who gets credit for starting a meme? Usually... nobody — they're made too quickly and organically. In the case of one of the most famous bait-and-switch memes of all time, the "Rick Roll," we may be looking at something experts call convergent evolution. Did the Rick Roll originate with a piece of code on the message board 4Chan, or with a prank call to a local sports show in Michigan? And why does the Rick Roll have such staying power? Is it codified in the DNA of the song itself?
We explore the meme’s origin, the history of the song, "Never Gonna Give You Up," and its impact on both internet users during COVID-19 and on the performer himself.
This episode was originally published on Oct. 08, 2021.

Encore: Never Gonna Give You Up

2025 marks 20 years of Google Maps — a tool that many of us would be, quite literally, lost without.
We hear from New Orleanians who used Google Maps/Google Earth in its inaugural year to survey the damage to their homes following Hurricane Katrina.
We also talk to the internet's Map Men, who ask whether "the best maps humanity has ever produced are simultaneously the worst maps for humanity?" in their new book, "This Way Up: When Maps Go Wrong (And Why It Matters)."

Lost Without You

There's a lot of drone warfare footage on the internet from Ukraine and Russia. But over the last year, a surprising change has emerged, via photos from the battlefront posted online. It has become clear that a huge part of the drone war, from dropping grenades on soldiers in bunkers, to dropping explosives on infrastructure or airfields, is wired. Those wires are fiber optic cable, stretching from drone operators to the drones, which spool out cable across the ground and over trees along the battlefront. These drones are often single-use rarely returning from the mission they set out on. And the spools of fiber optic cable, stretching over 30-50 kilometers, don't get cleaned up. We explore this evolution of drone use in the conflict - where it came from, and why.

Ukraine's expanding drone web

The internet decides what's for dinner.
Ruby Tandoh is the author of the new book, All Consuming: Why We Eat the Way We Eat Now. A stint on the Great British Bake Off when she was in college launched her into the world of cookbooks — increasingly irrelevant in a world where we're more likely to turn to Google for a recipe than turn to our bookshelves — and provided her an education in how pop culture stokes our cravings. She takes Ben and Amory on a journey from the surprising history of AllRecipes and the "world's best lasagna," to the TikTok food trends of today. (Spoiler: they don't always taste particularly good.)
Show notes:
All Consuming: Why We Eat the Way We Eat Now
Credits: This episode was produced by Grace Tatter and hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. It was edited by Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski.

Ruby Tandoh, the World's Best Lasagna,and how the internet is collectively changing what we all want to eat

In honor of the day-after-Thanksgiving leftover sandwich, we're revisiting our conversation with Barry Enderwick, the man behind the beloved and wildly popular "Sandwiches of History" social media accounts.
Barry joined Ben and Amory to make a triple-decker sandwich from 1958, and to talk about his first cookbook, "Sandwiches of History the Cookbook: All the Best (and Most Surprising) Things People Have Put Between Slices of Bread."
To quote Barry's signature phrase, we think you should give this episode "a GO!" If you're hungry for more, check out Sandwiches of History on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and Reddit.
 

Episodes we love: Sandwiches of History

Endless Thread serves up two of Reddit's most absurd food sagas. First course: Chivegate, in which a Redditor vows to chop a cup of chives daily until the kitchen confidential subreddit declares perfection, only to be accused of fraud.  Second course: A Reddit user desperately seeking advice on how to quietly move 13 two-thousand-pound pallets of margarine.
Show Notes:

u/occasionallyvertical's post on r/UnethicalLifeProTips
r/kitchenconfidential

This episode was produced and co-hosted by Amory Sivertson and Ben Brock Johnson, and edited by Meg Cramer. Production assistance from Grace Tatter. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

Chiveman and a mountain of margarine

Ben and Amory share two stories about some out-of-the-box internet trolling. First, Amory tries to untangle a web of rumors surrounding an unusual dish from New Zealand. Then, Ben takes us aboard Terri's Tourz, an alleged Everglade tourist attraction claiming to offer the nation's first ever tours of the South Florida Detention Center known as Alligator Alcatraz.
Show notes:

3 Facts About New Zealand I Didn’t Know Until I Moved Here (Medium)
Was this post a joke? (r/newzealand)
Terri's Tourz


Fryders and Alligator Alcatraz tours: When trolls get inventive

This November, we're playing some of our favorite episodes from the past alongside new stuff, so that newer listeners can experience our back catalogue. And LoFi Girl is one that holds up, big time!
If you've ever searched for "chill beats for studying" or some other form of lean back, endless playlists without vocals and with a consistent vibe, you've probably come across "Lofi Girl."
A livestreamed Youtube channel featuring a looped animation of a girl in a cosy apartment on her desk at night, the channel has brought in millions upon millions of views and subscribers. It's also the big bang for an expanding universe, from additional channels and streams featuring slightly different animated characters and music genres, to copycats, to memes and lore - including stories about a mysterious French music producer, Dimitri.

Episodes we love: Lofi Girl

While some people find Labubus terrifying, millions of others find their big eyes and furry features irresistibly adorable. Why? From Labubu dolls taking over TikTok, to emoji taking over our text messages, cuteness is all over the internet. Ben and Amory talk to Joshua Paul Dale, professor at Tokyo's Chuo University and the preeminent cuteness expert about how cute has conquered all.
A previous version of this episode incorrectly stated that Despicable Me was a Disney movie. The episode has been updated to reflect that Despicable Me is a production of Illumination and Universal Pictures. 
Show notes:
Irresistible: How Cuteness Wired our Brains and Conquered the World (Profile Books)
The Cute Studies Project
This episode was produced by Grace Tatter, edited by Meg Cramer, and co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski.

So Cute!

Everybody get up, it's time to slam now... again! Yes, we're revisiting our episode about the website for the 1996 movie "Space Jam," which is still up and functioning nearly 30 years later.
Amory and Ben talk to the hilarious team behind this digital artifact and hear the unlikely story of its continued existence.
Show notes:

The Space Jam website
'Space Jam' Forever: The Website That Wouldn't Die (Rolling Stone)
The TIL post on Reddit
Hollywood in Pixels
SpaceJamCheck on X
Teach Yourself Web Publishing with HTML in 14 Days
Welcome to the Space Jam, Again (The New York Times)


Episodes we love: Welcome to the Jam

In keeping with Endless Thread tradition, Ben and Amory are celebrating spooky season with another installment of "Endless Dread." This time, we're bringing you along on both an actual haunted hayride — thanks to McCray's Farm in South Hadley, MA — and a digital one, through a handful of spooky stories from the internet.
Ben introduces Amory to a TikTok commentary on recent ICE raids disguised as a parody of consumerism.
Amory tells Ben about an auditory illusion that has risen from the dead (Twitter) to unsettle the living (TikTokers and Redditors), and about a "vampire" from Rhode Island who was exhumed and turned into a tonic to cure tuberculosis. Spoiler alert: it didn't work.

Endless Dread: Haunted Hayride

New to Endless Thread? Wooooo! We're revisiting some favorites from our archives to welcome you.
First up: The cover art for the 1976 paperback edition of Madeleine L'Engle's classic, spooky sci-fi/fantasy novel "A Wrinkle in Time" — featuring a rainbow-winged centaur and a green, glowering, red-eyed face — is iconic. And yet, for nearly 50 years, no one has known who illustrated it. Well, not NO ONE. Not anymore... Endless Thread cracks the case!

Episodes we love: Artist Known

The final episode of Hidden Levels explores the story of SEGA developer Tez Okano and the bizarre, meta-game he created: Segagaga.
Okano joined SEGA in 1992, witnessing firsthand the company's tumultuous experience in the "console wars" against Nintendo and Sony.
In the mid-1990s, SEGA struggled to make hardware that kept up with its rivals. The SEGA CD, the 32X, and the Saturn were all commercial failures. For Okano and many developers at SEGA, the console wars were both an exciting time to be in the video game business but also an intense and stressful time. They worked long hours, slept at their desks, and faced relentless deadlines. And so Okano decided to turn the chaotic nature of his professional life into a low-budget, self-parodying game about making video games at SEGA.
In Segagaga, the player is a young developer tasked with saving SEGA's market share from the rival DOGMA Corporation (a stand-in for Sony/PlayStation). The gameplay is a mix of a role-playing game (RPG) and a management simulator, where you recruit demoralized, mutant-like SEGA employees by convincing them to join your team for the lowest salary possible.
The gameplay reflects the absurd reality of game development. Players can spend a long time creating an original, hit game or they can quickly make a bunch of trashy titles (or shovelware) that barely keeps the company afloat. Okano even told us that the insults characters used in "battles" were actual quotes he heard in the office.
The game was finished in 2001, just as the highly anticipated Sony PlayStation 2 was effectively dooming SEGA's Dreamcast. As game journalist Simon Parkin notes, Segagaga was released only two weeks before SEGA exited the console business entirely. This timing transformed the game from a self-parody into a memorial for a dying era, inviting players to literally defeat SEGA's failed consoles as bosses.
Though Okano’s bizarre proposal was initially met with laughter by executives, the game ultimately got made and, in a strange twist, benefited from the company's decision to stop making video game hardware. Even in the face of industry chaos, some creators simply can't help but pour their love and energy into making games.

Credits
This episode was produced by Jayson De Leon and edited by Meg Cramer. Mix by Martín Gonzalez. Fact-checking by Graham Hacia. Original music by Swan Real and Paul Vaitkus. Jocelyne Allen helped translate and interpret our interview with Tez Okano (truly the best).
Special thanks to Lewis Cox and Tom Charnock over at The Dreamcast Junkyard. Their insight on SEGA, the Dreamcast, and Segagaga was extremely helpful in the making this story. Additional thanks to Adam Kuplowsky and 17 Bit’s Jake Kazdal.
Simon Parkin has a book about the history of the Dreamcast called Sega Dreamcast: Collected Works. It’s rich and beautiful and has even more details about Segagaga that we could not fit into this story.
Tez Okano would like to thank the small team that supported Segagaga. Especially Hisao Oguchi, Tadashi Takezaki, and Taku Sasahara.
Hidden Levels is a production of 99% Invisible and WBUR's Endless Thread. The Managing Producer for Hidden Levels is Chris Berube. The series was created by Ben Brock Johnson. Series theme by Swan Real and Paul Vaitkus. Series art by Aaron Nestor.

Hidden Levels Ep. 6: Segagaga

Video games are arguably the antithesis of nature; highly constructed worlds, synthetic, inorganic. If you grew up gaming, you may recall grown-ups telling you to shut down the console, go outside, and touch some grass.
These days, though, touching grass isn’t something you have to do outside. As gaming has grown into a 200 billion dollar industry, the boundary between screen and soil has muddied. New technologies and types of play are getting gamers ever-closer to the experience of real nature. And yet, in a kind of weird feedback loop, those same technologies and types of play meant to simulate nature are now changing the real thing in ways that could outlast us all.

Credits:
This episode was produced by Dean Russell. Edited by Kelly Prime. Mix, sound design, and music composition by Paul Vaitkus. Additional mixing by Martín Gonzalez. Fact-checking by Graham Hacia.
Special thanks to Samuel Åberg, Alex Beachum, Tracy Fullerton, Will Matthee, Kelsey Myers, and Mike Rougeau.

Hidden Levels Ep. 5: Press B to Touch Grass

Dr. James "Butch" Rosser was a pioneer in minimally invasive surgery in the 1990s. When he credited his surgical skills to video games, people dismissed him. The prevailing narrative was that kids who played video games became killers, not doctors. So Butch set out on quest: to show how video games can help make better doctors.
Show notes:

The impact of video games on training surgeons in the 21st century
(JAMA Surgery)
Study: High-School Video Gamers Match Physicians at Robotic-Surgery Simulation (Slate)
We Have to Operate, but Let's Play First (The New York Times)
He’s really on his game (Orlando Sentinel)

Credits
This episode was written and produced by Grace Tatter and edited by Meg Cramer. Mix, sound design and music composition by Emily Jankowski.
"Hidden Levels" is a production of 99% Invisible and WBUR's Endless Thread. The Managing Producer for Hidden Levels is Chris Berube. The series was created by Ben Brock Johnson. Series theme by Swan Real and Paul Vaitkus. Series art by Aaron Nestor.

Hidden Levels: Surgical Precision (Side Quest)

Machinima — a portmanteau of “machine” and “cinema” — refers to movies filmed inside video games. The art form had a renaissance in the 1990s, and many thought it had a future in Hollywood. Among the early pioneers were the New York animation collective the Ill Clan, who puppeteered characters in real-time inside the video game Quake, bypassing traditional animation rendering. This technique exploded into a cultural phenomenon through the 2000s with hits like Red vs. Blue, South Park’s Emmy-winning World of Warcraft episode, and This Spartan Life, a live talk show filmed inside Halo 2's unpredictable virtual world.
However, machinima.com faced controversies and eventually shut down, erasing its archive and leaving many original artists sidelined. Today, machinima is experiencing a powerful resurgence in documentary filmmaking. Projects like Grand Theft Hamlet, filmed during the pandemic entirely within Grand Theft Auto 5, proved that sophisticated feature films could be created in active, real-time virtual environments. Award-winning documentaries like The Remarkable Life of Ibelin showcase the medium’s emotional depth and its potential for democratizing creativity. What started as a technical workaround has evolved into a legitimate art form that continues to redefine the meaning of movies, and games.

Credits:
This episode was produced by Andrew Callaway and edited by Chris Berube. Mix by Martín Gonzalez. Original music by Swan Real, Jamilah Sandoto and Paul Vaitkus. Fact-checking by Lara Bullens.

Hidden Levels Ep. 4: Machinima

Today, Stef Sanjati is a creator on YouTube with over half a million subscribers. Her content mostly focuses on her two greatest loves — makeup and gaming — often combining the two with her otherworldly video game-inspired beauty tutorials.
Growing up in small-town Ontario, though, Stef was a quiet, introverted kid who was bullied a lot. For one thing, she looked different from her peers. Having been born with a rare genetic condition called Waardenburg Syndrome, Stef has several distinct physical features, including wide-set blue eyes and a natural streak of white hair.
But there was something else that she didn’t quite have the words for back then – something she felt closest to while playing as her favorite avatar in World of Warcraft, the massively multiplayer online role-playing game by Blizzard Entertainment. That something else was that Stef is trans.
Choosing your player is a near-ubiquitous experience in gaming. Whether it's picking from a stock of ready-made options in Mario Kart or carefully calibrating a custom avatar in World of Warcraft, a gamer's choice of character has a huge impact on the gaming experience. But when a gamer is given the chance to choose, or even build, a brand new identity outside of the one they experience every day, the potential impact goes far beyond simple gameplay.

Credits
This episode was written and produced by Frannie Monahan and edited by Meg Cramer. Mix, sound design and music composition by Paul Vaitkus.
"Hidden Levels" is a production of 99% Invisible and WBUR's Endless Thread. The Managing Producer for Hidden Levels is Chris Berube. The series was created by Ben Brock Johnson. Series theme by Swan Real and Paul Vaitkus. Series art by Aaron Nestor.

Hidden Levels: Choose Your Player (Side Quest)

For decades, the U.S. Army has been on edge about recruitment, hitting its goals for a few years, only to miss them again. As part of their strategy to combat recruiting concerns, the Army has turned its focus online: to the world of gaming and competitive eSports.
With nearly 80% of Americans between the ages of 13 and 28 playing video games weekly, the Army has identified this community as a vital demographic for potential recruits. The core goal of this outreach is to use gaming as an entry point, which is nothing new — the precedent was set decades ago.
With the end of the draft in 1973, the U.S. Army found itself faced with new recruitment challenges. Campaigns like the “Be All You Can Be” ads of the 80s were popular and led to short-term bumps in recruitment, but they didn’t last. The Army failed to meet its recruitment goals in 1998. It failed again in 1999. In response, a U.S. Army lieutenant colonel spearheaded the development of America's Army, a free-to-play first-person shooter launched in 2002.
The game was designed to offer a "virtual test drive" of Army life. Before the players could enter the full combat portion of the game, they were required to complete certain training modules covering topics like physical fitness and weapons use. The game was designed to reflect the Army’s values and structure. And despite the game’s promise to represent the true Army experience, the relatively limited depiction of gore and gruesome violence raised concern from some critics. Other critics, including anti-war activists and the ACLU, condemned the project for "gamifying war" and serving as propaganda that targeted impressionable youth by design.
America's Army became a significant cultural and recruiting success, accumulating over 1.5 million downloads in its first month and eventually earning the title of the "Most Downloaded War Video Game" from Guinness World Records with more than 42.5 million downloads.
After a two-decade run, the U.S. Army officially shuttered America's Army. The way Americans played video games had changed since the game launched in the early 2000s, and the Army began to pivot its approach to gaming to leverage the success of existing games and opportunities posed by the increasingly popular competitive eSports scene. Today, the Army eSports team competes in commercial titles like Rocket League, Call of Duty, and Valorant, continuing its outreach. This modern presence remains contentious — critics continue to question the ethics of military outreach in spaces that include children.

Credits:
This episode was produced by Katelyn Harrop and edited by Christopher Johnson. Mix, sound design and music composition by Paul Vaitkus. Additional mixing by Martín Gonzalez.
"Hidden Levels" is a production of 99% Invisible and WBUR's Endless Thread. The Managing Producer for Hidden Levels is Chris Berube. The series was created by Ben Brock Johnson. Series theme by Swan Real and Paul Vaitkus. Series art by Aaron Nestor.

Hidden Levels Ep. 3: This Game Wants YOU

In this second episode of Hidden Levels, Amory traces the history of the humble-yet-genius joystick — from early 20th century aviation, to 1970s video game consoles like the Atari 2600, to the Nintendo 64 thumbstick in the 1990s, to what some consider the joystick's greatest implementation: the dual-thumbstick controller.
This optimal interface has changed the game, and not just the video game. The modern dual-stick controller is now considered an MVP in the military, and in medicine.

Hidden Levels Ep. 2: Stick It to 'Em

Welcome to our all-new collaborative series, "Hidden Levels," in which we team up with 99% Invisible to explore how the world of video games has impacted the world beyond. We’ll dive deep into how games are made and designed, exploring everything from the history of the joystick to the faithful recreation of nature in digital spaces.
Whether you are a lifelong gamer or have never picked up a controller, "Hidden Levels" uncovers how games have quietly changed culture, technology, and the way we see the world...starting with a '90s arcade classic.
Developer Mark Turmell worked at Midway, which was known for iconic games like Space Invaders, Pac-Man, and Mortal Kombat. His creation of NBA Jam in 1993 pushed the company in a new direction. It debuted at the height of the Chicago Bulls' dynasty, aiming to capture the energy of professional basketball in a high-octane, over-the-top format.
The game was a hit out of the gate, captivating players with its digitized graphics (with the heads of real NBA players) and fantasy gameplay where players could become "on fire."
At the heart of the NBA Jam gaming experience was the voice of its announcer, Tim Kitzrow. Turmell and the game's sound team had realized they needed a voice that could match the game's energy and cut through the din of an arcade, without the budget for a professional NBA commentator. So they turned to Kitzrow, an improv comedian and journeyman actor, who was initially hired by Midway for pinball voiceovers — it was just a fun side gig. He had no idea that his work on NBA Jam would make such a lasting impact on the industry.
Kitzrow modeled his energetic, flamboyant delivery on NBA announcer Marv Albert, infusing it with his own ad-libbed, short, and punchy catchphrases like "REJECTED!" and the game's most famous line, "Boomshakalaka!"—which was suggested by an artist and inspired by funk group Sly and the Family Stone. The game became a monumental hit, reportedly making $1 billion in quarters in its first year, with its catchphrases entering basketball vernacular.
***
Credits:
This episode of "Hidden Levels" was produced by James Parkinson, edited by Emmett FitzGerald, and mixed by Martín Gonzalez. Original music by Swan Real, Jamilah Sandoto, and Paul Vaitkus. Series theme by Swan Real and Paul Vaitkus. This story was adapted from James Parkinson’s podcast, Gameplay. 
The Managing Producer for "Hidden Levels" is Chris Berube. The series was created by Ben Brock Johnson. "Hidden Levels" is a production of 99% Invisible and WBUR's Endless Thread.

Hidden Levels Ep. 1: Mr. Boomshakalaka

Have you ever jumped on something as you're moving through the real world, and heard that Mario bouncy sound in your head? Or maybe seen someone acting like an NPC when they're a real person? Maybe you know that the first real "in-app" purchase was actually a weapons store in an arcade game version of Double Dragon 3.
Wherever you go in the real world, you can find signs of the influence of videogames. But you have to know where to look. That's why Endless Thread and 99% Invisible are launching a new limited series together called Hidden Levels.
Today Roman Mars and Ben Brock Johnson kick off the series with a little preview of what's coming.

Announcing 'Hidden Levels': how the videogame world has changed the world beyond videogames

You've heard of the "Freshman 15"... how about the "DOGE 15"? This is how some federal employees have referred to the stress associated with the establishment of the Department of Government Efficiency back in January and the "restructurings, realignments, and reductions in force" that came with it, as announced in an email sent to nearly all federal employees with the subject line, "Fork in the Road."
Federal workers have found community in the FedNews subreddit: "A vital, independent hub for U.S. federal employees to navigate the bureaucracy, protect our careers, and support one another." r/FedNews is our hub for this episode. Back in April, Amory and Ben spoke with three of its members: one of whom is still a federal employee, another who participated in the Deferred Resignation Program, and another who was laid off along with thousands of other probationary employees, only to be offered his job back.
We hear their stories as the country faces another fork in the road: a government shutdown that the White House has said could result in further reductions in force — specifically of federal jobs that are "not consistent with the president's priorities."
Show notes:

r/FedNews (Reddit)
"Fork in the Road" email
E's post (Reddit)
Jacob's post (Reddit)

This content was originally created for audio. An auto-generated transcript is available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Heads up that some elements (i.e. music, sound effects, tone) are harder to translate to text.

A fork (still) in the road

Ben and Amory share stories about potential pettiness from Reddit. Ben shares a post from r/weddinshaming post about a bride who changed her wedding to a weekday in another state. Amory counters with a teacher who used AI to foil his student's cheating. Petty or just?  You be the judge.
Credits: This episode was produced by Frannie Monahan. It was co-hosted by Amory Sivertson and Ben Brock Johnson. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski.

Bridezillas and Quiz Traps

In 2020, Jenna Marbles — one of the most popular YouTube creators of all time —posted her last video. Five years later, her devoted fanbase still wonders: where is she, and is she okay? We investigate the mystery behind one of YouTube's biggest disappearances, and why people still care so much.
Show notes:

r/JennaMarbles (Reddit)
The Best, Fakest, and Most Teary Influencer Apologies of 2020 (Vulture)
How to trick people into thinking you're good looking (YouTube)
An Authentic Guide to Meaningful Work 

This episode was written and produced by Grace Tatter, edited by Meg Cramer, and hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski.

Losing Our Marbles

What is your relationship with the trash heap of digital history? Can you still connect your old hard drives? Still sifting through your old photos in the cloud? Do you ever low key snoop in the old electronics of other people, searching for treasure?
That's what Noah Simmons was doing a while back when he discovered something compelling in its simplicity: a homework assignment document, on an old laptop picked up at an estate sale. The title of the essay? "My Secret Place."
From there, the mystery of the author, and the meaning it had for so many people who got hit right in the feels by a nostalgic description of childhood, played out on TikTok. Like hundreds of thousands of people online, Team Endless Thread had to know more.
Credits: Co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson, produced by Frannie Monahan, Edited by Meg Cramer, and sound designed by Emily Jankowski. The rest of our team is Managing Producer Paul Vaitkus, Dean Russell, and Grace Tatter.

Message In A Laptop

As summer fades away, we bring you an encore episode about you shoreline companions and occasional bullies — gulls.
Gulls are not beloved creatures. Consult social media, where they are deemed relentless, dirty pests who steal our food and crowd our beaches. As one TikTok user puts it, "Seagulls are the worst animals to ever exist."
Such hatred overlooks truths about this intelligent, charismatic animal, and it is masking a big problem: While gulls may seem like they are everywhere, many species are dying.
Endless Thread goes on a journey to reconsider the seagull.

You can learn more and see photos of the gulls of Appledore here.

Credits: This episode was written and produced by Dean Russell. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski. The hosts are Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. It was edited by managing producer, Samata Joshi.

Encore: The Internet's Most Hated Bird

Dun dun... This week, on Endless Thread... dun dun... something new is here... dun dun dun dun... a podcast mini-series about the 50th anniversary of the cinematic classic... DUN dun dun dun DUN dun dun dun..."Jaws!"
Part 1 of this mini-series, Jaws Island, is right here, right now, and it's all about the "finatics" (yes, that's what they call themselves). WBUR arts and culture correspondent Andrea Shea takes us to Martha's Vineyard — AKA "Amity Island," where Jaws was filmed — for the 50th anniversary celebration of the film.
Through conversations with "finatics," collectors, and cast members, Andrea learns how Steven Spielberg's enduring monster movie sank its teeth into us.
Parts 2 and 3 are right around the corner, so follow Jaws Island in your podcast app! ("You're gonna need a bigger podcast library!")

Introducing "Jaws Island"

What happens when we outsource aspects of our most personal moments to machines?
In the second installment of our two-part series on AI and relationships, we hear from Rhiannon Williams, a reporter for MIT Technology Review who spoke to people all over the world about how they're using AI to relate to their loved ones, including a man who turns to it during marital disputes, a French mother who uses it to craft nightly tales for her son, and a nursing student who calls her AI companion her "boyfriend."
Credits: This episode was produced by Grace Tatter and edited by Meg Cramer. It was co-hosted by Amory Sivertson and Ben Brock Johnson. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski.

AI and Relationships, Part 2: AI Therapists and Bot Boyfriends

Amir Mizroch spent years deconstructing fairy tales for his children — and thinking that maybe, he could create something out of his analysis and storytelling for a wider audience. In the first episode of our two-part series on AI and relationships, we hear what Amir finally created, and explore the questions it raises about connection in the digital age.
Credits: This episode was produced by Grace Tatter, and edited by Meg Cramer. It was co-hosted by Amory Sivertson and Ben Brock Johnson. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski.

AI and Relationships, Part 1: Into the Woods

In the past few years, videos from a new kind of camp have begun circulating the internet. They feature men participating in a variety of bizarre activities: from aggressively digging holes under floodlights, to collectively wailing in a pool of water. These are man camps, where men can pay up to $18,000 to undergo extreme boot-camp-like conditioning in the name of reclaiming their masculinity.
This week on Endless Thread, host Ben Brock Johnson and senior producer Dean Russell, dive into the past, present and future of man camps.
Show notes:

Learning 'how to be a man' in the Californian desert: Man Camp (The Guardian)


Bootcamp for Men: from betas to alphas

On this week's Endless Thread, host Ben Brock Johnson and producer Grace Tatter bring us two stories about the power of livestreams – one from the Coldplay concert box seats, and another from a notorious rat corridor in Brooklyn, NYC.
Show notes:

What's the deal with "Astronomer" CEO and CPO affair? (Reddit)
A Crown Heights Building's Rat Infestation Gets a Livestream (Hell Gate)
Rat cam (YouTube/Adam Schleser)
I am a rat (a real live rotten-tailed rat)  (YouTube/Adam Schleser)


Kisscams, ratcams, Barbra Streisand

Kristen Sotakoun (@notkahnjunior on TikTok) says she has always been 'the FBI of the friend group' – that person you can count on to dig up the juicy details on anyone's social media.
It's a skillset that has earned her millions  upon millions of views on TikTok in a series she has dubbed 'consensual doxing.' In her videos, Kristen completes challenges from her viewers to find their birthdays, using only publicly posted information online.
Kristen is now a handful of creators on TikTok who are making consensual doxing videos as educational content, encouraging viewers to think more deeply about what they post online, and where.
On this week's Endless Thread, we dive into the world of consensual doxing, what it can teach us about our privacy, and host Ben Brock Johnson gets (consensually) doxed.
Show notes:

I got popular on TikTok by being a total creep (Business Insider)
This Man Proves You Can Find Anyone Using Geolocation — and It's a Scary Lesson for All of Us (Distractify)
‘Consensual doxxing’ reveals the confronting truth about online privacy - you’re not as hidden as you think (7NEWS Australia)


Thinking Outside the Dox: What 'consensual doxing' can teach us about internet privacy

What does the thumbs-up emoji mean to you? Or the wilted rose? The meanings of emojis are limitless and can differ across social groups or generations. On this episode of Endless Thread, Ben and Amory discuss two stories about how certain emojis have taken on surprising meanings.
Show notes:
* Here’s why the Aerial Tramway Emoji is suddenly in every YouTube comment section (daily dot)
*Alright guys.. What is does this emoji mean and why is it used so much? (Reddit)

There's a new emoji for sadness :(

If you feel like it's been raining a lot on the weekends this summer, you're not alone. A couple months ago, we noticed a thread on r/boston asking why? So, we enlisted the help of one of our WBUR colleagues, Climate and Environment Corespondent Barbara Moran to clear things up once and for all.
Show notes:

Rain Every Weekend??? (Reddit)
OMG, why is it raining every Saturday in Boston? (WBUR)


Why it feels like it rains every weekend

This episode originally aired on July 12, 2024. It has been updated to more clearly represent communication with Kayleigh Grant about a conversation with Kristian Parton.
When Endless Thread producer Grace Tatter heard a friend assert that she could ward off a shark because of TikTok, Grace was both concerned for her friend's safety, and curious. Why are there so many videos about "redirecting" sharks on TikTok, and how accurate are they?
Hosts Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson dive into the controversial world of SharkTok, where influencers are trying to show a different side of sharks by getting up close and personal with them.
Show notes:

Mermaid Kayleigh (Instagram)
Welcome to Shark Bytes (YouTube)
Steven Spielberg on the BBC's Desert Island Disks
A diver's extremely close visit with a great white shark went viral. Marine biologists say don't copy her. (Washington Post)Credits: This episode was produced by Grace Tatter with Cici Yu. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski. It was hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson.


Episodes We Love: How to Fight a Shark

This week on Endless Thread, we're raiding our refrigerators and rating our favorite condiments with TikTok creator and author "Condiment Claire" Dinhut. We learn about the surprising history of some of our favorite flavor-enhancers, and Claire shares her secrets for using up the last bits of sauce in a jar and how she keeps her online presence appetizing.
Show notes:
The Condiment Book (Flatiron Books)
Credits: This episode was written and produced by Grace Tatter. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus. It was hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. 

Raiding the fridge with Condiment Claire

In the hours leading up to Israel commencing its June missile strikes on Iran, X users were posting about pizza. Specifically, how pizza places around the United States Pentagon were experiencing an unusual spike in business. 
The Pentagon Pizza Index refers to a theory that dates back to the Cold War, suggesting that increased pizza orders around the Pentagon could be a harbinger of imminent military action by the U.S. or its close allies.
In this special episode of Endless Thread, Ben and Amory dig into the Pizza Index, its history and make some calls to Pentagon-area pizza places for a hot slice of reality pie.
Show notes:

Pentagon Pizza Report (X)
Happening Right Now: Dominos Nearest the Pentagon is "Busier than usual"(Reddit)
Pentagon Pizza Monitor Appeared To Predict Israel Attack (Newsweek)
What is the Pentagon Pizza theory eating away at the internet? (Euro News)
Pentagon Pizza Index: The theory that surging pizza orders signal global crises (Fast Company)


War and Pizza

A picture's worth a thousand words, or in this case, a podcast episode.
This week Ben and Amory bring two very different stories from Reddit about pictures on the internet. First – what legal rights do we have over our photos after posting them on Instagram? Then, Ben indoctrinates Amory to The Game.
Show notes:

Unauthorized use of my photo being displayed in every corporate store in US. Where to start? (Reddit)
Let's confuse the younger generation (Reddit)

This content was originally created for audio. An auto-generated transcript is available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Heads up that some elements (i.e. music, sound effects, tone) are harder to translate to text.

Pics or this episode didn't happen

Jeffrey Ngo is from Hong Kong. He used to talk about politics all of the time with his friends in group chats and on social media, from casually sending memes, to planning protests.
What happens to online speech when you're unsure how much the government is monitoring your speech, and what the repercussions will be if they don't like it?
Show notes:

PROFILE: For Jeffrey Ngo, The Fight For Hong Kong is Far From Over
(The Hoya)
Social Media and the Hong Kong Protests (The New Yorker)
Hong Kong protesters join hands in 30-mile human chain (The Guardian)
Hong Kong national security law: What is it and is it worrying? (BBC)

Credits: This episode was produced by Grace Tatter. It was co-hosted by Amory Sivertson and Ben Brock Johnson. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski.

When the government wants your socials

Men's fashion might seem like a niche topic. But people of all genders and sartorial sensibilities follow Derek Guy on X for his clothing takes... even if they're not quite sure how they found his page.
Endless Thread talks to Derek about how he weaves together humor, history, cultural criticism, and political commentary to make fashion feel relevant to people who have never seriously considered it before.
Show notes

@dieworkwear (X)
Die, Workwear!
The Post Trend Universe (The New York Times Style Magazine)
Status and Culture, by W. David Marx

Credits: This episode was produced by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. Production assistance from Grace Tatter. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus. It was co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson.

Derek 'The Menswear Guy' Guy

'Tis the season to show some skin! Perhaps some tattoo-adorned skin?
In this week's episode, Ben tells Amory about the r/tattoos community's reaction to a man whose friends made him self-conscious about his flowery tattoo. Amory tells Ben about the science behind why tattoos stay put on our bodies, which has only recently come to be understood.

Get inked! Or... not!

The thing about social media when it was created was that it was public. Ideas shared were debated for all to see. Today much of that is happening behind closed doors—in group chats.
Ben Smith, editor-in-chief of the media outlet Semafor and co-host of the podcast Mixed Signals, speaks with Endless Thread about the elite group chats on Signal and WhatsApp that are shaping American politics.
*****
Credits: This episode was produced by Dean Russell. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski. The co-hosts are Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson.

Group Chats: The Dark Matter of American Politics

The bots are here to stay, and they're everywhere. The trouble is, learning how to spot them.
On this week's episode of Endless Thread, Ben and Amory discuss two stories from Reddit about undercover bots. First — is there such a thing as an easy tell for identifying bots? Second, what happens when internet users accept bots as fellow humans, only to discover the truth later?
Show Notes:
‘The Worst Internet-Research Ethics Violation I Have Ever Seen’ (The Atlantic)
OpenAI used this subreddit to test AI persuasion (Tech Crunch)

The bots are taking over

A few years ago, we brought you the story of how dinosaur emoji had entered the debate about trans rights.
We were reminded of this episode recently when a White House memorandum lambasted NPR for spreading "radical, woke propaganda" and linked to our story as an example. After the memo, President Trump signed an executive order to stop federal funding to NPR and PBS.
We stand by our reporting. And so we decided to bring you the episode again.
*****
We love making Endless Thread, and we want to be able to keep making it far into the future. If you want that too, we would deeply appreciate your contribution to our work in any amount. Click here for the donation page. Thank you!
*****
This episode was written and produced by Dean Russell. Mix and sound design by Matt Reed. The co-hosts are Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. Special thanks for Dane Grey for the artwork.

Encore: The internet's fight over dinosaur emoji

It's rant season. Or is it? When is it *not* rant season? In this week's episode of Endless Thread, Ben and Amory discuss two very different, very viral, rants from Reddit. One is about how the current design trends in our public and private spaces are hard on the ears. Another discusses how escape room adventures can bring out the worst in people. Perhaps there's some humor and some lessons to glean from rants, too?

Boy do we have a rant for you

At any given time, 110 people can tell you exactly where James Tatter is.
Every single iPhone user has the Find My app on their phone, which allows them to share their location with friends and family. Increasingly, for young people like James, it's becoming also a form of social media.
Endless Thread producer (and James's sister) Grace Tatter wanted to know how something that seems creepy to some people became so commonplace to others — and how it's affecting our relationships off the screen.
Show notes:
On the Grid: Surveillance as a Love Language (The Drift)
Dodgeball Shuttered By Google, Its Co-Creator Promises To Clone It (Business Insider)


Thinking Critically about Social Media (American Sociology Association)

Talking Tech with Apple's Senior Vice President of Services, Eddy Cue (SuperSaf)
The Impact of Location-Tracking Apps on Relationships (Psychology Today)


Credits: This episode was written, reported and produced by Grace Tatter. It was edited by Meg Cramer. Co-hosted by Grace Tatter, Amory Sivertson, and Ben Brock Johnson. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski.




Find Our Friends

Endless Thread is thrilled to introduce you to a new podcast from our friends at NHPR’s Document team. That’s the team behind other great narrative shows like Bear Brook and The 13th Step.
For the past six months, NHPR reporter Todd Bookman has been spending a lot of time thinking about… a cat. This cat’s name is Sergeant Tibbs – he’s 19.
Tibbs goes missing… and lands in the center of a lot of human pain, confusion… and internet outrage. And as Todd investigated what happened here, he found a pretty profound story about what we owe our pets – and our neighbors.
This week, we’re bringing you the first episode "Chicken Livers" of The Final Days of Sgt. Tibbs.
We hope you enjoy!
To hear the rest of the series, follow The Final Days of Sgt. Tibbs wherever you get podcasts. 

Introducing NHPR's "The Final Days of Sgt. Tibbs"

There's a conspiracy theory on Reddit right now suggesting that Reddit is using aggressive tools to hide posts praising or supporting Luigi Mangione's alleged execution-style killing of the CEO of United Healthcare, Brian Thompson. Endless Thread looks at what is going on with Luigi memes on this platform: the Nintendo character memes… and the other ones.
Show notes:
A Reddit moderation tool is flagging ‘Luigi’ as potentially violent content (The Verge)
Reddit will warn users who repeatedly upvote banned content (The Verge)
What's the deal with all of these Luigi themed posts saying "nothing violent going on here"? (r/OutOfTheLoop)
Credits: This episode was produced by Grace Tatter and Ben Brock Johnson. It was edited by Meg Cramer, and hosted by Amory Sivertson and Ben Brock Johnson. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

Nothing Violent

Have you ever been deepfaked? Or maybe this is just a new fear – that photos of you end up online that are you – but not really you? What would you do? For an increasing number of people – especially women – this is becoming a reality.
So much so that a recent bill in Congress called the “Take It Down” Act has found some incredibly rare bipartisan support. The bill is sponsored by republican Senator Ted Cruz and democrat Senator Amy Klobuchar – making it illegal to post explicit deepfakes – First Lady Melania Trump has also been a vocal supporter. But the thing is, it isn't law yet and… it might not be enough.
A new podcast called Levittown, from Bloomberg and Kaleidoscope Podcasts, takes listeners on a sort of cyber thriller for the AI age. It's the story of a bunch of young women in the suburbs of Long Island who find naked fakes of themselves online and when told there’s nothing they can do about it – set out to catch the perpetrator. This ends up connecting them to a web of online vigilantes – and cyber criminals taking advantage of a justice system not ready for the reality of AI.
Endless Thread brings you the first episode in this series. If you like what you hear – find Levittown wherever you like to get your podcasts to listen to the full series.

Introducing Levittown, new podcast from Kaleidescope and Bloomberg

In April of 2024, a group of aid workers were killed by Israeli Defense Forces while bringing food to Central Gaza. The IDF had alleged that its military analysts had identified a gunman on top of one of the trucks carrying supplies, suggesting it was a military vehicle, not an aid vehicle.
In the online debate following the event, a familiar trope popped up: arguing over whether one of the aid trucks a Toyota Hilux. The reason? In military conflict around the globe, the Hilux is a familiar character. Whether you're a U.S. designated terrorist group, a "freedom fighter," or someone else involved in direct armed conflict, you probably know about the Hilux.
Endless Thread wanted to know why, and how, this happened. So we took a journey beyond America's commercial pickup truck identity to understand why beyond our borders, the Hilux is the truck of choice.
Credits: This episode was produced by Ben Brock Johnson and Dean Russell.  Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus. It was co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson.

Toyota Hilux trucks - why are they popular online and in war zones?

Well, the messaging app Signal has been in the news recently, thanks to a snafu in which prominent federal defense officials mistakenly added The Atlantic's editor-in-chief, Jeffrey Goldberg, to a group chat in which they discussed military strikes in Yemen.
This whole situation reminds us of another conversation we've been having as a team about how to responsibly leak information to the press, and if there is such a thing as a "secure line."
To answer this question, we reached out to our WBUR colleague, investigative and data reporter Todd Wallack.
If you have a story you would like to share with us in a secure way, you can reach us on Signal (yes, Signal) at 646-456-9095 or email us at wbursecuretips@proton.me

How to responsibly leak information to the press

There are moments that define each of our lives. Some we can predict: graduations, marriages, births, death.  Others? Not so much.
And in the year 2025, sometimes, if the stars align just so, you may find that moment explode online.
That's what happened to 23-year-old Adrián Simancas. Last month, he was paddling the Straight of Magellan, with his father Dell, when the unimaginable happened: a humpback whale emerged from the water and engulfed him in its open mouth — and his father captured it all on video. Almost immediately, the video went viral.
Simancas sat down with Endless Thread to discuss his whale tale, the deluge of attention that followed, and what he's learned from his intimate moment with nature.
Show notes: 

Video of Adrián's whale encounter. We originally saw it on the Reddit thread: r/ThatsInsane
Adrián Simanca's Youtube channel
Dell Simanca's Youtube channel
Did a whale swallow a kayaker? The truth behind the viral video (NPR)


Adrián and the Whale

Last week, we introduced you to the wildly popular, albeit controversial, streamer and self-declared socialist Hasan Piker — what he’s all about, how he’s delivering his message to millions of followers, and who he’s reaching and resonating with.
When we talked to him in November, Hasan had a lot to say about the Democratic Party, about the streaming platform Twitch, and about what’s further dividing Americans right now. So here's more of our conversation with him.

Bonus: A conversation with Hasan Piker

Every day, seven days a week, for eight hours or more, Hasan Piker is live on the video game streaming platform Twitch. This is where he shares his political commentary with a dedicated community of viewers — many of whom fall into a particularly sought-after electoral demographic: young men.
One of the dominant theories about the re-election of President Donald Trump in November 2024 was that it was aided by commentators like Piker: brash and bro-y. But Piker is a Socialist, considerably to the left of the mainstream Democratic Party. He gets into streamer beefs, but he also talks a lot about empathy and bringing a spirit of charitability to political discourse. What kind of affect does he have on his community and their political activism? Who's tuning in 50 hours a week to get their news from one guy (spoiler: it's not just twentysomething men), and really — who's that guy?
Endless Thread talks to Hasan Piker and his fans.
Credits: This episode was written by Ben Brock Johnson and co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. It was reported and produced by Grace Tatter. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus. 

The Stream is Up

"Should I be joking at a time like this?"
That's the question then 33-year-old Brooke Eby asked herself when she uploaded her first piece of TikTok comedy in 2022, about being diagnosed with a terminal illness. Brooke's since built an audience of hundreds of thousands of people who are rooting for, and laughing with, her. Sometimes it gets weird. Brooke talks to Ben and Amory about how facing death changed her relationship with social media and online community.
Show notes:

Brooke Eby's TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube
ALSTogether
When Your Terminal Illness Makes You a TikTok Star (The New York Times)

This episode was written and produced by Grace Tatter. It was co-hosted by Amory Sivertson and Ben Brock Johnson. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski.

Terminally Online

Everybody get up, it's time to slam now! Yes, this episode is about the 1996 movie "Space Jam," starring NBA legend Michael Jordan and the Looney Tunes. Rather, it's about the website for "Space Jam," which is still up and functioning nearly 30 years later.
Amory and Ben talk to the hilarious team behind this digital artifact and hear the unlikely story of its continued existence.
Show notes:

The Space Jam website
'Space Jam' Forever: The Website That Wouldn't Die (Rolling Stone)
The TIL post on Reddit
Hollywood in Pixels
SpaceJamCheck on X
Teach Yourself Web Publishing with HTML in 14 Days
Welcome to the Space Jam, Again (The New York Times)


Welcome to the Jam

We’re coming to you with a special offering today. It’s an episode about the internet… from our friends just a few cubicles over here at WBUR: On Point.
Hosted by Meghna Chakrabarti, On Point is a unique, curiosity-driven combination of original reporting, newsmaker interviews, first-person stories, and in-depth analysis, making the world more intelligible and humane. When the world is more complicated than ever, we aim to make sense of it together.
We loved their recent episode about one of our favorite pieces of how the internet gets recorded and remembered — and we thought you might love it too. 
So kick back and take a listen. We’ll bring you the usual shenanigans next week.


More than 900 billion webpages are preserved on The Wayback Machine, a history of humanity online. Now, copyright lawsuits could wipe it out.
Guests
Brewster Kahle, founder and director of the Internet Archive. Digital librarian and computer engineer.
James Grimmelmann, professor of digital and information law at Cornell Tech and Cornell Law School. Studies how laws regulating software affect freedom, wealth, and power.

Introducing On Point: The Internet Archive is in danger

Wanda Brewer was grieving. After losing her brother, she found comfort in an unexpected place: a soap-opera-esque story on Instagram told in 60-second increments. The story? A mafia boss torn between power, family and love.
Wanda’s not alone. Millions are bingeing these bite-sized, ultra-dramatic vertical shorts, where sexy werewolves, ruthless billionaires, and love triangles unfold one minute at a time — hooking viewers with cliffhangers and high-stakes drama.
From China’s multi-billion-dollar booming industry to your TikTok feed, these soapy, over-the-top dramas are changing the way we watch — and pay for — entertainment. This Valentine’s Day, Endless Thread explores the rise and Americanization of vertical short dramas.
Show notes:
“Werewolf Billionaire CEO Husbands Are Taking Over Hollywood” (Rolling Stone)
“Minute-Long Soap Operas Are Here. Is America Ready?” (The New York Times)
“2024 Short Drama Overseas Marketing White Paper” (TikTok)
Credits: This episode was produced by Cici Yu. It was co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski and Paul Vaitkus.

Love in 60 Seconds

In 2022, people around the world freaked out at the advent of ChatGPT, OpenAI's chatbot. In under three years, artificial intelligence has been incorporated almost everywhere in our online lives. But training the large language models, or LLMs, that power these AI assistants is hugely expensive. Or is it? Last month, a Chinese startup called DeepSeek released their own AI app for much less money, potentially with huge economic and geopolitical implications. Endless Thread hosts a rap battle to help you understand why these AI companies are beefing.
Show notes:
"Trying to get Deepseek to talk about 'Tank Man'" (Reddit)
"DeepSeek Doesn’t Want to Talk About Tiananmen Square. Here’s What to Know" (Bloomberg)
"DeepSeek is giving the world a window into Chinese censorship and information control" (CNN)
Correction: A previous version of this episode incorrectly identified the brand of specialized chip used by DeepSeek. This episode now includes an update explaining the error.
Credits: This episode was produced by Ben Brock Johnson. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus. It was hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. 

DeepSeek's Diss Track

Sometimes, after a long day speaking English, former WBUR podcast fellow Cici Yu just wants to zone out and spend time on the internet where everyone is speaking her native language, Chinese. Her app of choice? Xiaohongshu, or RedNote. So, when Cici logged on recently to find a feed filled with English-speaking Americans, she was surprised.
Show notes:
"The great social media migration: Sudden influx of US users to RedNote connects Chinese and Americans like never before" (CNN)
"More speech and fewer mistakes" (Meta)
"Instagram hides search results for 'Democrats'" (BBC)
"Instagram and Facebook Blocked and Hid Abortion Pill Providers’ Posts" (The New York Times)
Credits: This episode was produced by Grace Tatter. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus. It was hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson.

Little Big RedNote

There's a burning question that keeps coming up in internet communities, YouTube explainers, and interviews with stunt people from the film industry: does Steven Seagal actually know martial arts?
In our current news environment, where conspiracy theories abound and the truth can feel elusive, this somewhat silly question keeps getting asked. But as we explore the answer, we find that perhaps the confusion about Steven Seagal's own personal story has relevance for how we navigate the year of 2025, whether or not we're talking about Hollywood action heroes.

Does Steven Seagal really know karate?

It's 2025. HBO's "Dune: Prophecy" is one of the most popular shows streaming, and the federal government just announced massive spending on artificial intelligence. The inspiration for "Dune: Prophecy" is in part a prophecy, of sorts, from 1872: One about humans becoming subservient to "thinking machines." What can a 150-year-old text teach us about the current AI revolution?
Credits: This episode was produced by Ben Brock Johnson and Grace Tatter. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski. It was hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. 

Butlerian Jihad

If you typed “inauguration” into your web browser anytime between 2017 and 2020, you likely saw an image of a person in a neon green jacket, black winter hat and glasses screaming “Nooooooooooo!” That person was Jess, who was in Washington D.C. on January 20, 2017 to protest the inauguration of President Donald Trump.
Jess told their story to Endless Thread in 2021. This week, we're revisiting that episode in advance of Donald Trump's second inauguration, just as the Internet has been resurfacing this poignant — and, for some, highly relatable — meme.

Episodes we love: The Scream

Kashif Hoda was getting onto a Southbound train at Harvard Square when a young man said he recognized him. The doors closed before he got a chance to ask the young man how, or who he was. A month later, the answer came in the form of a viral video.
Harvard students AnhPhu Nguyen and Caine Ardefyio modified Meta's smart glasses so that you can search someone's face quickly, almost without them knowing, and pull up personal internet flotsam that they might no longer remember even exists. Think: pictures and articles from decades ago. Addresses. Voting records.
Are we prepared for a future where this tool goes mainstream?
Show notes:
IXRAY (Google Doc)
Two Students Created Face Recognition Glasses. It Wasn’t Hard. (The New York Times)
Credits: This episode was produced by Grace Tatter. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus. It was hosted by Ben Brock Johnson, Amory Sivertson, and Grace Tatter.