Heart UK

The Bottom Line

<p>Evan Davis hosts the business conversation show with people at the top giving insight into what matters</p>

BBC Radio 4

If there’s one business that’s ingrained in popular culture, you could argue it's the buying and selling of antiques. You only have to count the number of TV shows where people find and flog something hoping for a profit to recognise the appeal. But how does the business really operate? Is it accurately portrayed on television and how do antiques come up for sale in the first place? Evan Davis is joined by a panel of experts to get some answers and asks whether anything we manufacture today will last long enough to be auctioned off in a hundred years-time.Guests:
Catherine Southon: Catherine Southon Auctioneers and Valuers, TV expert on Flog It!, Bargain Hunt and Antiques Road Trip
Mark Hill: Dealer, Author, Lecturer and TV expert on Antiques Road Show and Antiques Road Trip
Conor Hannah: Founder of SellingAntiques.co.ukPresenter: Evan Davis
Producers: Nick Holland & Sally Abrahams
Sound: Dave O'Neill & Neil Churchill
Production Coordinator: Katie Morrison
Editor Matt Willis

Antiques

Drones are no longer simply small flying cameras. They’re being used to fight wars, find people lost at sea, inspect infrastructure and gather intelligence. Evan Davis and guests discuss what’s driving the extraordinary growth of the drone industry. And, as the technology gets cheaper, smarter and longer-range, what does it take to build a successful drone business?  Guests: 
Mike Armstrong, MD, Stark Defence UK
Gemma Alcock, Founder and CEO, Skybound
Mark Westwood, Director of Defence and a Professor of Aeronautics, Cranfield University  Production team:
Presenter: Evan Davis
Producers: Bethan Ashmead, Nick Holland, Sally Abrahams
Production Co-ordinator: Katie Morrison
Sound Engineer: Neil Churchill
Editor: Matt Willis

Drones: Small machines, big business

The 2026 London Marathon saw new world record times set in both the men's and women's events. Eyes weren't just on the winning athletes but also on the Adidas trainers they were wearing. So what goes into designing and making a pair of trainers and why have some of them become so expensive to buy? Global sales for trainers are in the tens of billions of dollars with hundreds of new styles being produced every year. How does the industry keep up with demand and stay on trend? Giant companies like Nike and Adidas, who dominated the industry for decades, can no longer take anything for granted. Newer brands like On and Hoka have managed to break through and are shaking things up. How have they managed to do it?  Evan Davis gets some insights and answers from people who work in the industry.Guests:
Tony Evans: Managing Director of Jacobson Group
Tom Astrella: Co-founder The Footsoldiers
Wayne Edy: Founder and CEO of Inov8Presenter: Evan Davis
Producer: Sally Abrahams & Nick Holland
Sounds: Dave O'Neill and Frank McWeeny
Editor: Sam Bonham

Trainer Wars

From breakthrough products and inspiring leadership to marketing disasters and strategic own goals, a panel of business leaders choose the winners and losers from the last 12 months in business. Evan Davis hosts The Bottom Line's unofficial annual awards, where the only prizes are the praise or pillory of the judges.Guests:
Nicola Hodson, Deputy President, techUK 
Peter Bazalgette, former Chair, ITV
Edwina Dunn, Co-founder, dunnhumby Production team:
Presenter: Evan Davis
Producers: Sally Abrahams and Nick Holland 
Sound engineers: Dave O’Neill and Tim Heffer
Production Co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

The Bottom Line Business Awards 2026

The Bottom Line has been on BBC Radio 4 for twenty years.  The programme was first broadcast in 2006. Back then smartphones weren't on sale, Facebook had only just gone public and people still went to Blockbuster to rent videos and DVDs. Tony Blair was prime minister, a litre of fuel cost 90p and interest rates stood at 4.5 per cent. Since then there's been a financial crash, we've had energy price shocks, Brexit and a pandemic.  Evan Davis is joined by a panel of guests, who first appeared in the early years of the show, to reflect on how the business landscape has changed over that period of time.  Guests:
Nicola Horlick: CEO of Money & Co
Robin Wight: Advertising Guru 
Kim Winser: Luxury Brand Consultant 
Alex Cheatle: CEO and founder of Ten Lifestyle Group PlcPresenter: Evan Davis
Producer: Sally Abrahams & Nick Holland
Sound: Dave O'Neil
Production Coordinator: Katie Morrison
Editor Sam Bonham

Twenty Years in Business

Success doesn't always bring confidence.  In fact, some of the most accomplished people privately worry they're not as capable as everyone believes.  They live with a nagging fear that one day, they'll be exposed as a fraud.  It’s often called imposter syndrome, and can affect anyone, at any stage of their career.Evan Davis and guests explore what imposter syndrome really is, why it happens and how it can hold people back.  And they'll share practical tips and strategies for quietening that inner critic and building confidence.   Guests:  
Andy Ransom, former CEO, Rentokil and now chair designate, Teenage Cancer Trust
Katy Leeson, former MD, Social Chain and founder of Courageous 
Dr Valerie Young, co-founder, the Imposter Syndrome Institute Production team:
Presenter: Evan Davis
Producers: Sally Abrahams and Nick Holland
Production co-ordinator: Liam Morrey 
Sound engineer: Dave O’Neill
Editor: Justine Lang

Imposter Syndrome

Few disagree we need business regulations to protect the rights of workers and consumers, ensure markets operate fairly and set standards for a whole host of industries. However, one thing some business owners get frustrated about is the amount of regulation they have to comply with. It's not just that we over-regulate, they also complain that we're slow to regulate too, causing unnecessary and expensive delays. Evan Davis explores the nature of the regulatory landscape in the UK and assesses whether we fairly weigh up the costs and benefits. Presenter: Evan Davis
Producer: Sally Abrahams & Nick Holland
Sounds: Neil Churchill and Rod Farquhar
Production Coordinator: Katie Morrison
Editor: Sam BonhamGuests:
John Fingleton: CEO of Fingleton Consultancy
Polly Dhaliwal: COO of Enterprise Nation
David Buttress: Co-Founder of Just Eat

The Costs and Benefits of Business Regulation

A laptop, reliable wifi and a visa, the formula that has allowed millions to work from almost anywhere in the world. It’s a lifestyle that promises freedom and flexibility: one month in Lisbon, the next in Bali.  But after years of countries competing to attract digital nomads, with special visas and tax breaks, some destinations are rethinking the welcome mat. As governments tighten requirements and scrutinise remote workers more closely, Evan Davis and guests examine the economics of life on the move and consider whether the lifestyle really delivers on its promise.  Guests: 
Christa Romano, founder of Digital Nomad Life Academy;
Diego Bejarano Gerke, CEO and founder of Wifi Tribe;
Emily Bratt, journalist and brand communications consultant; and
Dave Cook, anthropologist at University College London.Production team: 
Presenter: Evan Davis
Producers: Nick Holland and Sally Abrahams
Sound engineers: Dave O’Neill and James Beard
Editor: Sam Bonham

Digital Nomads

Whether it’s McDonald’s and Cadbury or H&M and Karl Lagerfeld, brand collaborations are booming.   From food to fashion, homeware to movies, why are partnerships having such a moment and what makes some 'collabs' succeed while others fail?  Evan Davis and his guests explore the deals, the strategies and the creative thinking that turn collaborations into commercial successes. They also consider the consequences of what happens when things don't go to plan?  Guests:
Karen O’Rourke, Managing Director, H&M, UK and Ireland
Gill Williams, head of partnerships, tpf 
Rita Clifton, branding expert, former London CEO, Interbrand Presenter: Evan Davis
Producer: Nick Holland and Sally Abrahams 
Sound engineers: James Breard and Andy Garratt
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison
Editor: Sam Bonham

When brands collaborate

What does it take to drill oil out of the ground and then refine it into petrol, jet fuel or other petrochemical products? The world currently uses about a hundred million barrels of oil a day. However, the daily flow has been affected by the closure of the Strait of Hormuz. A fifth of the global supply normally passes through the waterway in tanker ships, but it's been blocked since the end of February 2026.  How has the industry adapted?Guests:
Nick Bone, Fuels Industry UK
Luke Johnson, Director of OPC
Edward Hayden-Briffet from Onyx CapitalPresenter: Evan Davis
Producers: Sally Abrahams & Nick Holland
Sound: Dave O'Neill & James Piper
Production Coordinator: Katie Morrisson
Editor: Sam Bonham

How the oil industry works

Evan is joined by a panel of top entrepreneurs to answer your listener questions. How do you make your business stand out in a crowded market? Where can you find the information you need to start your own business? Why don't we hear about the failures along the way to success? And how do you know which risks are worth taking? Evan and his guests answer listeners' questions and discuss the ins and outs of starting your own business, as well as the unique challenges of being an entrepreneur. Guests:
Trinny Woodall, CEO and founder of Trinny London 
Sarah Willingham, CEO and founder of Nightcap
Brent Hoberman, serial entrepreneur and investorProduction team: 
Presenter: Evan Davis
Producer: Mhairi MacKenzie
Production Co-ordinator: Katie Morrison 
Sound engineers: Jack Graysmark and Dave O'Neill 
Editor: Matt Willis The Bottom Line is produced in partnership with The Open University

Entrepreneurs: Your Questions Answered

From smartphones to trainers, confectionary and cleaning products, we live in a culture of constant updates.  Companies reformulate, redesign and refresh their products in a continuous race to stay ahead.  But how are those decisions made?  What counts as meaningful improvement and how much is designed to make last year’s version feel old?   Evan Davis and guests discuss how products evolve and why standing still is the fastest way to fall behind.Guests: 
Tom Moody, Senior Vice President and Managing Director, P&G (Proctor & Gamble) Northern Europe
Dr Garry Moppett, Senior Director of Research & Development at Mars
Dave Ward, UK and International Managing Director, Amazon Ring. Production team:
Presenter: Evan Davis
Producer: Sally Abrahams
Sound engineers: Lee Wilson and Donald MacDonald 
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison  
Editor: Matt Willis The Bottom Line is produced in partnership with The Open University

Product Innovation: Better, Or Just New?

Across our professional careers, many of us will come into contact with a difficult colleague or hard-to-please superior. But what happens when difficult behaviour crosses over into bullying at work? What effect does this have, not only on our wellbeing, but on our workplace as a whole? Evidence suggests that bullying may be on the rise in the UK. A 2025 survey of British workers conducted by ACAS (Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service) found that 44% of respondents had experienced conflict at work in the last 12 months. And on the global stage, the resurgence of ‘strong man’ leadership has reignited a debate: does bullying behaviour get you what you want?   Evan and the panel look at what workplace bullying is, when and why bullying can occur, and the steps individuals and organisations can take to tackle this behaviour in the workplace. Guests: 
Jason Warner, Managing Director (UK and EMEA) at SBS 
Kevin Rowan, Director of Dispute Resolution at ACAS
Kara Ng,  Senior Lecturer in Organisational Psychology at Alliance Manchester Business School, University of Manchester Production team: 
Presenter: Evan Davis
Producer: Mhairi MacKenzie
Production Co-ordinator: Katie Morrison 
Sound engineers: James Beard and Neil Churchill 
Editor: Matt Willis The Bottom Line is produced in partnership with The Open University

How Do You Deal with a Workplace Bully?

The UK’s private rental market has grown dramatically over recent decades, creating what often feels like a tale of two nations: ‘Generation Rent’ who are priced out of home ownership and unable to access social housing; and buy-to-let investors who view property as a reliable income stream or pension plan.Rising rents, poor conditions and fierce competition for homes have fuelled frustration with landlords, prompting political efforts to strengthen protections for tenants and increase tax pressure on property owners.Now the sector is facing a turning point – with large institutional investors, backed by pension funds, for example, playing an increasing role. Evan Davis and guests discuss the state of the UK rental market and where it might be heading.  Guests: 
Ashley Winston, Director of Palmdale Car Finders
Andy Graham, Host, HMO Podcast
Polly Simpson, Head of multi-family development at SavillsProduction team:
Presenter: Evan Davis
Producer: Sally Abrahams
Production Co-ordinator: Katie Morrison
Sound engineers: Ben Andrews and Tim Heffer
Editor: Matt Willis The Bottom Line is produced in partnership with The Open University

Private Renting: Who Wants to Be a Landlord?

Everyone wants to get the best price they can when they buy, whether that’s a product, a service or an experience. But the ‘best price’ can look different for different people, and at different times. Surge pricing, tiered prices, off-peak discounts, time-of-use pricing- technology has enabled more industries to employ dynamic pricing to get the best prices for their products by altering them depending on a range of sophisticated considerations.  But this has made pricing less predictable and left customers feeling like the prices are often stacked against them; most notably after the Oasis reunion tour ticket sales in 2024. Is dynamic pricing really as bad as we all think? Evan and guests look at the psychology behind consumer perceptions of dynamic pricing, and ask how different industries can utilise the pricing model to benefit themselves and their customers. Guests: 
Richard Howle, founder of RH Insights
Zoisa North-Bond, CEO of Octopus Energy for Business
Marco Bertini, Professor of Marketing at Esade Business SchoolProduction team: 
Presenter: Evan Davis
Producer: Mhairi MacKenzie
Production Co-ordinator: Katie Morrison 
Sound engineers: Daniel Fox and Steve Greenwood 
Editor: Matt Willis The Bottom Line is produced in partnership with The Open University

Dynamic Pricing: Who Profits?

From headline deals like Vodafone-Three or home builder, Barratt buying rival, Redrow, corporate mergers and takeovers are on the rise.  Evan Davis and guests take a fresh look at what happens when companies combine. They discuss why deal-making is growing, why execs turn to M&A, what can go wrong and whether mergers deliver growth or simply disguise deeper problems.   Guests: 
Vittorio Colao, CEO at Vodafone Group 2008-2018, and now Vice Chairman, EMEA, General Atlantic 
Pip Hulbert, CCO for International Markets at VML 
Farshid Azadegan, Director of BEC DistributionProduction team: 
Presenter: Evan Davis
Producer: Sally Abrahams
Production Co-ordinator: Katie Morrison
Sound engineers: Russell Newlove and Andy Garratt
Editor: Matt WillisThe Bottom Line is produced in partnership with The Open University

What Happens When Brands Change Hands?

In the years after the COVID pandemic we are travelling more and expecting more from our journeys. Travel is increasingly viewed as an end-to-end experience that begins before you even set foot on board your flight. As people look to inject luxury into their travel, airport lounge usage has boomed.But lounges’ rise in popularity has created a unique problem for their operators: how do you grow your customer base whilst maintaining a degree of exclusivity?Evan Davis speaks to industry operators and experts about balancing the scales.Guests:
Mignon Buckingham, CEO of Airport Dimensions
Claude Roussel, VP of Sky Clubs and Lounge Experience at Delta Airlines
Nicky Kelvin, Senior Director of Content at The Points GuyProduction team:
Presenter: Evan Davis
Producer: Mhairi MacKenzie
Production Co-ordinator: Katie Morrison
Sound engineers: Dave O’Neill and Tim Heffer
Editor: Matt WillisThe Bottom Line is produced in partnership with The Open University

Airport Lounges: For the Many or the Few?

Right now, Artificial Intelligence feels unstoppable.  Investors are piling in, expectations are sky-high and claims about a radically different future are everywhere.  To anyone who remembers the late 1990s, it all feels strikingly familiar.   Back then, the internet sparked the dotcom boom - a frenzy of big ideas, easy money and soaring valuations.  When the bubble burst in 2000, billions were lost and companies wiped out.  Yet the core idea proved right - the internet did transform lives, just more slowly and messily than expected.   And there are important lessons to be learned.  Evan Davis talks to Ernst Malmsten, co-founder and CEO of boo.com, one of the most high-profile startups of the dotcom era.  From his frontline seat in the boom and bust, he shares what really happened and what today’s AI moment can learn from it.  Guests:  
Ernst Malmsten, co-founder and former CEO, boo.com
Gretchen Morgenson, business reporter at the New York Times during the dotcom bubble, now senior financial reporter, NBC News Investigations
David Pringle, tech writer and former Wall Street Journal reporterProduction team: 
Presenter: Evan Davis 
Producer: Sally Abrahams 
Production Co-ordinators: Katie Morrison and Jack Young 
Sound: Dave O’Neill and Rod Farquhar 
Editor: Matt WillisThe Bottom Line is produced in partnership with The Open University.

Boom And Bust: Is AI The New Dotcom Bubble?

Every country likes to think it’s world-class at something. The Italians claim style, the Germans have their engineering and the Americans have Silicon Valley - and swagger. So, what about us?  What’s Britain’s superpower?    It’s a serious question.  If we know what the UK is good at, we can play to our strengths and build an economy that pays for the things we all rely on – like hospitals, homes and schools.   Evan Davis and guests discuss what Britain does well across culture, innovation and capital.  And asks what works, what doesn’t and why it matters.   Guests:
Ric Lewis, founding partner of Tristan Capital Partners
Kate Bingham, managing partner at SV Health Investors
Shona McCarthy, former CEO,  Edinburgh Festival Fringe SocietyProduction team:
Presenter: Evan Davis
Producers: Sally Abrahams and Neal Razzell  
Production Co-ordinator:  Katie Morrison
Sound: Jonathan Greer and James Beard
Editor: Matt WillisThe Bottom Line is produced in partnership with The Open University.

USPs: What Is The UK Good At?

Frustrated by the lack of sophisticated non-alcoholic drink options, Ben Branson began experimenting in his kitchen, distilling herbs from his garden to create an alcohol-free spirit.  Seedlip launched in 2015 and rapidly scaled.  In just three and a half years, he took the company from a hobby to a global brand, sold in 35 countries and 30 US states, before selling the business to the drinks giant, Diageo.  Ben tells Evan Davis how before all that, he’d tried his hand at a variety of jobs, some of them quite bizarre.

Decisions That Made Me: Ben Branson (Seedlip)

Margaret Heffernan didn’t start out in business.  Until her mid-30s, she was enjoying a successful career at the BBC, producing and directing TV dramas and documentaries.  But she was always curious about a career in the corporate world.   She decided to take the plunge and took on roles in the US.  It was as CEO of a tech firm when Margaret discovered she was being paid 50% less than her male counterparts that she faced one of her biggest decisions.  As she explains to Evan Davis, should she speak out and risk the consequences or put up and shut up?(Image: Margaret Heffernan. Credit: mheffernan.com)

Decisions That Made Me: Margaret Heffernan

When Joey Gonzalez took his first class at Barry’s, West Hollywood, he says “it was love at first sweat”.  The music, night-club vibe and high-intensity workout was life-changing. Joey was convinced he could expand the fitness brand beyond Los Angeles.  So, he worked his way up through the company, starting as an instructor and becoming CEO in 2015 - creating Barry’s studios across the US and around the world.  And even now, as Executive Chairman, Joey still leads a workout.   He tells Evan Davis why his background in musical theatre and performing arts is ideal for being a Barry’s “entertrainer”.(Image: Joey Gonzalez. Credit: Barry's)

Decisions That Made Me – Joey Gonzalez (Barry’s)

Sameer Vuyyuru has spent his career at the cutting edge of technology.  From building semiconductors at Texas Instruments to launching an AI-startup in Shanghai, he’s now chief artificial intelligence and product officer at Capita, the outsourcing giant.   An opportunity, he says, to introduce disruptive technology inside an established company.  The intrapreneur talks to Evan Davis about the power of AI and the influence his grandfather has had on his life.(Image: Sameer Veruyyu Credit: Capita)

Decisions That Made Me: Sameer Vuyyuru

Harry Destecroix was studying for his PhD at Bristol University when he co-founded Ziylo. Based on 20 years of Bristol chemistry research, the spin-out company created a new technology that can be developed to treat diabetes more effectively.  It's a breakthrough that led to its acquisition by pharmaceutical firm, Novo Nordisk, in a deal reportedly worth up to 600 million pounds.  Harry has also founded the incubator, Science Creates and is the founding managing partner of SCVC, a venture capital firm.   Harry tells Evan Davis why his own experience of spinning out a company has made him passionate to help other early-stage companies in the Bristol area – whether that’s providing lab space, finance or advice.(Image: Harry Destecroix Credit: Peter Schiazza, Copyright: Science Creates)

Decisions That Made Me: Harry Destecroix (Ziylo, Science Creates, SCVC)

Sophie Mirman was thrown in at the deep end when – at the age of 13 – she was in a car accident with her parents. They were both badly injured and, a few years later, Sophie felt she had to find a way to help the family finances.  She started as a very junior secretary in M&S, applied for jobs she says she wasn’t qualified for, and went on to hold the top jobs at Tie Rack, SockShop and Trotters. She discusses the all-consuming nature of expanding outside the UK and how her more cautious approach these days is, ultimately, more enjoyable.  Producer: Sally Abrahams
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound:  Jackie Margerum 
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison(Image: Sophie Mirman. Credit: Pylewell)

Decisions That Made Me: Sophie Mirman

When Jesper Brodin landed a job as IKEA’s purchase manager in Pakistan, he was only 26.  And had no idea he was the only applicant.   He’s now spent 30 years with the iconic Swedish brand - since 2017, as CEO of Ingka Group, which runs most IKEA stores.  During that time, he’s led two major transformations - taking the company digital and making it more eco-friendly.  Now, as he steps down from his role, he tells Evan Davis about the lessons he learned from IKEA’s legendary founder, Ingvar Kamprad.  And why he’s planning to buy himself a new guitar.(Image: Jesper Brodin. Credit: JOEL SAGET/AFP via Getty Images)

Decisions That Made Me: Jesper Brodin (IKEA)

Heather Vernon never expected to become an entrepreneur.  Her goal after university was to become a teacher, through the Teach First graduate programme - two years of intense learning on the job, schooling disadvantaged children in low income communities.  It taught her resilience and prompted a move into politics, initially at a local level, then a job with the Labour party, advising members of the then shadow cabinet.    She tells Evan Davis why working at Westminster was initially terrifying and what encouraged her to set up a PR business with a friend.  (Image: Heather Vernon Credit: Woburn Partners)

Decisions That Made Me:  Heather Vernon (Woburn Partners)

Three business leaders tackle fictional dilemmas that test their instincts, experience and nerves.  To make it more realistic, none of the guests have any idea what the scenarios are in advance. Guests: 
Ben Branson, Founder, Seedlip and Sylva
Sophie Mermin, Founder, Trotters Childrenswear 
Margaret Heffernan, former CEO, entrepreneur, author and professor of practice at the university of Bath school of management  Production team:
Presenter: Evan Davis
Producer: Sally Abrahams
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison
Sound: Nathan Chamberlain and Gareth Jones
Editor: Matt Willis

Hypotheticals: How Would You React If You Were Boss?

Productivity drives prosperity, yet the UK continues to lag behind countries like the US, France and Germany. We work harder, yet produce less than our peers. In this episode, Evan Davis and guests discuss what productivity really looks like in practice – from offices and factories to call centres and operating theatres. And ask whether AI could be the boost Britain's economy needs.  Guests:
Katy Davies, Managing Director, Cap Air Systems
Louise Stead, Group Chief Executive, Royal Surrey and Ashford and St Peter’s NHS Foundation Trusts
Sameer Vuyyuru, Chief AI and Product Officer, CapitaProduction team: 
Presenter: Evan Davis
Producer: Sally Abrahams
Production Co-ordinator: Katie Morrison
Sound engineers: Dafydd Evans and Duncan Hannant 
Editor: Justine Lang

Productivity:  How Can British Business Work Smarter?

Do you ever feel the world is stacked in favour of the extrovert people – the most gregarious, the most outwardly confident, the perhaps sometimes sharp-elbowed, the loudest?  What can natural introverts do to try and level the playing field and create a positive impression? Evan Davis asks Richard Etienne from the Introvert Space, Clare Farthing from South Somerset meet ups and Heather Vernon, co-founder of Woburn Partners.
 
Produced by Bob Howard.

Introverts:  Can Quiet Voices Conquer The Corporate World?

Once known as “personnel”, Human Resources seems to have become a real centre of power in modern business.  No longer just handing out payslips or organising the Christmas party, HR now shapes company culture, influences major decisions and – some say – acts as a kind of corporate police force and judiciary.    The profession has doubled in size over the past two decades and grown in authority.   How did it rise so fast and what does its growing influence mean for the workplace?   Evan Davis and guests discuss how HR seemingly took control of the corporate agenda and ask whether company bosses have delegated too much power to a profession that comes with its own code of values and priorities.  Guests:
Neil Morrison, HR Director, Severn Trent
Nicole Whittaker, Associate Director of HR Consultancy, Peninsula 
Pamela Dow, Co-founder and Chief Operating Officer, Civic Future Production team:
Presenter: Evan Davis
Producer: Sally Abrahams
Production Co-ordinator: Rosie Strawbridge
Sound: Pat Sissons and Duncan Hannant 
Editor: Matt Willis

Human Resources: Is HR Out of Control?

Can chaos ever be good for business?  From Donald Trump’s unpredictable tariff policies to Elon Musk’s disruptive leadership style, some of the world’s most high-profile figures seem to thrive on disorder.  But does chaos drive innovation – or just confusion?     In a world where start-ups often celebrate mess and speed over tidy management, we ask if “getting things done” sometimes means throwing out the rulebook.  Evan Davis and guests discuss whether the best results really come from a bit of chaos.  Guests:
Jesper Brodin, CEO, IKEA (Ingka Group)
Erin Meyer, Professor at INSEAD and co-author of ‘No Rules Rules’
Simon Dixon, CEO, Hatmill, supply chain and logistics consultancyProduction team: 
Presenter: Evan Davis
Producers: Sally Abrahams, Phoebe Keane, Kirsteen Knight
Production co-ordinator: Rosie Strawbridge
Sound engineers: Kris Hansen and Neva  Missirian
Editor: Matt Willis

Chaos Management:  Do Fewer Rules Make For Better Workplaces?

What happens when university research becomes a business? It’s called a spin-out and it’s built Silicon Valley, with Stanford University at the centre. In the UK, Oxford alone has launched more than 200 in the last 15 years.    Whether it’s a new drug, software or material, brilliant university research can create huge rewards – for founders, universities and the economy. But also battles over who really owns the idea and should get a share of the equity. Does the spin-out system deliver or does it stall? Evan Davis and a panel of guests discuss. Guests:
Molly Allington, CEO of Albotherm
Harry Destecroix, co-founder of Ziylo and also founder of incubator Science Creates in Bristol
Amber Hill, founder of Research GridProduction team:
Presenter: Evan Davis
Producers: Phoebe Keane and Sally Abrahams
Production co-ordinator: Rosie Strawbridge
Sound engineer:  Rod Farquhar
Editor:  Matt Willis

Spinouts: How Can Universities Turn Research Into Successful Businesses?

It's easier than ever to create a website for your business and talk directly with customers, but what are the pitfalls to avoid? Three business leaders discuss the pros and cons of selling 'D2C' with Evan Davis. Sellers no longer need to convince bigger retailers to carry their products or invest in inventory just to fill the shelves. Selling direct to consumers online also means businesses know exactly what their best sellers are, and who is buying what. These businesses can make improvements quickly and market only to those people most likely to buy. But as online selling becomes more competitive and targeted advertising gets more expensive, how can 'direct to consumer' businesses grow? Does the answer lie in bricks and mortar?Panel:Alexandra Thurstan, co-founder Different Dog, fresh dog food company
Lucas London, co-founder Lick, paint company
Neil Campbell, Chief Growth Officer SMOL, eco cleaning product company

Direct to Consumer: A Better Way to Sell?

Born in Halifax, West Yorkshire, Greg Jackson left school at 16 to write computer games, later joining Greenpeace before returning to study economics at Cambridge. Growing up in a family so stretched that the energy supply was cut off, he channelled that experience into a drive to make energy fairer and more affordable. By his twenties he was running a mirror business, before moving into tech start-up investing. In 2016 he founded Octopus Energy. Less than a decade on, it serves more than 7 million customers in 18 countries, manages a £6 billion renewable portfolio, and licenses its Kraken technology to utilities worldwide — with the company now valued at close to $9 billion.Producer: Georgiana Tudor
Series Producer: Simon Tulett
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Gareth Jones
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison and Rosie Strawbridge

Decisions That Made Me: Greg Jackson (Octopus Energy)

In 2019, Charlie Bowes-Lyon co-founded Wild with childhood friend Freddy Ward, frustrated by the lack of sustainable options in personal care. Their first product — a refillable deodorant in compostable packaging — struck a chord with consumers looking to cut down on plastic. From a standing start, Wild became one of the UK’s fastest-growing consumer brands, selling millions of units, building a loyal online following and moving rapidly into high-street stores. The company has already replaced hundreds of tonnes of single-use plastic. In 2025, Wild was acquired by Unilever in a deal worth hundreds of millions. Charlie speaks to Evan Davis about building a disruptive eco-brand, and what it takes to scale a start-up into a global business.Producer: Osman Iqbal
Series Producer: Simon Tulett
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Gareth Jones
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison and Rosie Strawbridge

Decisions That Made Me: Charlie Bowes-Lyon (Wild)

Mark Dixon left school at 16 and began selling hot dogs before building a bread roll business. In 1989 he founded Regus, spotting the need for flexible offices after watching people hold meetings in coffee shops. From a single site in Brussels, he grew the business into IWG — now the world’s largest provider of flexible workspace, with thousands of locations in more than 120 countries. Along the way he faced fierce competition and survived the dotcom crash. Mark speaks to Evan Davis about his journey from hot dog stands to global boardrooms, the setbacks that nearly ended it all, and how he built a company now worth billions.Producer: Osman Iqbal
Series Producer: Simon Tulett
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Gareth Jones
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Decisions That Made Me: Mark Dixon (IWG)

Tom Beahon played youth football for Tranmere Rovers from the age of eight, but when he realised he’d never make the very top, he walked away to chase a new dream: building a sportswear brand with his brother, frustrated by the lack of quality kit on the market. Today, Castore is valued at almost a billion. Tom joins Evan Davis to discuss giving up football, starting a business from scratch, and how they persuaded stars like Andy Murray to invest in the brand.Image used with permission by copyright holder Castore

Decisions That Made Me: Thomas Beahon (Castore Co-Founder)

When he finished university Anthony Eskinazi was destined for a graduate scheme with a top accountancy firm, but he couldn’t resist a business idea he’d had while trying to get to a baseball game during his gap year. The tech entrepreneur tells Evan Davis how he gave up job security, and a promising career path, to try to connect drivers with under-used parking spaces.  Producers: Simon Tulett and Georgiana Tudor  
Series Producer: Simon Tulett 
Editor: Matt Willis 
Sound: Gareth Jones 
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison (Image: Anthony Eskinazi Credit: Simon Tulett/BBC)

Decisions That Made Me: Anthony Eskinazi (JustPark Founder)

When an investor pulled the plug on a £3m cash injection for Joanna Jensen’s fledgling business, it could not have come at a worse time. The Childs Farm founder was just about to launch in two of the UK’s biggest high street stores, and was also going through a divorce and moving out of the family home with her two young daughters. Joanna tells Evan Davis how the last-minute let-down taught her who she could trust in business and what she needed to look for in a future financial partner.Producer: Georgiana Tudor
Series Producer: Simon Tulett
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Gareth Jones and Matt Cadman
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison(Image: Photographer: Emily Patrick. Copyright: Joanna Jensen)

Decisions That Made Me: Joanna Jensen (Childs Farm Founder)

When Nick Grey started his cordless vacuum business 20 years ago he took a big risk by handing a lot of control to a much bigger rival. The entrepreneur, who’d designed and built prototypes in his garage, tells Evan Davis about that decision and the moment he knew it had really paid off.  Production team: Producer: Simon Tulett 
Editor: Matt Willis 
Sound: Gareth Jones and Jonny Baker 
Production co-ordinator: Katie MorrisonImage: Photographer: Jack Pope. Copyright: Gtech

Decisions That Made Me: Nick Grey (Gtech, Founder and CEO)

Zak Brown didn’t graduate high school – he was thrown out for fighting - but he loved sport. He watched his first Formula 1 race when he was 10, and became captivated by the cars, sound and speed. An appearance on a teen version of Wheel of Fortune, aged 13, won him some Cartier watches that he would later pawn for $1000, using the money to buy a go-kart and launch his racing career. But when it became clear he wouldn’t reach the heights he hoped for, he had a big decision to make. He tells Evan Davis about his path to becoming boss of one of the biggest names in motorsport. Production team: Producer: Osman Iqbal 
Series producer: Simon Tulett 
Editor: Matt Willis 
Sound: Gareth Jones and Pete Wise 
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Decisions That Made Me: Zak Brown (McLaren Racing, CEO)

Which business leader, or company, has had the most outstanding 12 months? What's been the biggest disaster or blunder? Evan Davis and guests look back over the business highs and lows of the last year.Evan is joined by:Sir Martin Sorrell, executive chairman, S4 Capital;
Greg Jackson, founder and CEO, Octopus Energy;
Joanna Jensen, founder, Childs Farm.Production team:Producers: Georgiana Tudor and Osman Iqbal
Series Producer: Simon Tulett
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Neil Churchill and Matt Cadman
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

The Bottom Line Business Awards 2025

It's an industry that has few fans, but how does it really work, and will there be enough spaces in future for the UK's growing fleet of cars?Evan Davis looks under the bonnet of a much-maligned industry to find out where the money goes and why motorists have to pay in the first place. The government has been clamping down on 'cowboy' operators - can this, along with technology like Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras, make car parks fairer?With changing travel patterns post-pandemic, and growing restrictions on cars in towns and cities, we ask whether car parks can stay profitable. And, if more of them are repurposed into flats or other uses, will motorists face even more competition for spaces, and higher prices, in future? Evan is joined by:Adam Bidder, managing director, Q-Park UK and Ireland;
Ashley Bijster, managing Director, Modaxo;
Anthony Eskinazi, founder and president, JustPark.Production team:Producer: Simon Tulett
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: James Beard
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Car Parks: Who's Making Money From Your Ticket?

What does it take to grow a new enterprise? Evan Davis hears about the decisions behind creating a multi million-pound business.
 
Founders share the challenges of shifting from solo entrepreneur to CEO, and navigating the make-or-break moments: when to invest, when to take risks, and when to hold back.
 
Plus, the realities of failure, internal setbacks, and the strategic role of social media in driving growth.
 Evan is joined by:
 
Charlie Bowes-Lyon, Co-Founder, Wild;
Charlotte Figg, Co-Founder, Purdy & Figg;
Suneet Sachdeva, Founder & CEO, Bubble CiTea
 
Production team:
 
Producer: Osman Iqbal
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: David Crackles
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Scaling Up: What Turns a Start-Up into a Success?

Care homes are to be barred from recruiting overseas staff, as part of government plans to cut net migration, but will the sector be able to tempt enough British workers to take their place?Evan Davis asks two providers how they plan to adapt, why it's so hard to recruit and retain local staff, and what the care home sector might look like in the future.Also, if low pay really is one of the biggest obstacles to new hires, what would a fairer, more attractive level be? Evan is joined by:Raina Summerson, group CEO, Agincare;
Haris Khan, CEO, Curaa Group;
William Laing, founder and executive chairman, LaingBuisson Production team:Producer: Georgiana Tudor
Series Producer: Simon Tulett
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Neil Churchill and Jack Graysmark
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Care Homes: How Will They Cope Without Migrant Workers?

Few things in working life are as familiar or as dreaded as presentations, but done well they can persuade and even inspire. So what are the tricks to getting them right?From nerves to narrative, Evan Davis explores how structure, delivery and storytelling shape the way ideas land, and why clarity and connection matter more than ever.And is there still a role for the much-maligned PowerPoint slide?Evan is joined by:Abi Eniola, practitioner, RADA Business;
Rory Sutherland, vice chairman, Ogilvy UK;
Simon Gallagher, UK CEO, Euronext.Production team:Producer: Osman Iqbal
Series Producer: Simon Tulett
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Neil Churchill and Pat Sissons
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Presentations: How to Avoid 'Death By PowerPoint'

Cyber criminals have seriously damaged some household names recently - M&S, Co-op, North Face, Harrods - but what really happens behind the scenes when a business is hacked?Evan Davis speaks to the former head of information security at Royal Mail about the major attack it suffered in 2023 - from the initial alert and the eye-watering ransom demand, to the media leak and the long, slow rebuild.Plus, how should you negotiate with hackers, how sophisticated have they become, and how do they choose their victims?Evan is joined by:Jon Staniforth, former Chief Information Security Officer (CISO) at Royal Mail;
Lisa Forte, founder and partner, Red Goat.Production team:Producer: Simon Tulett
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Nathan Chamberlain and James Beard
Production co-ordinator: Sophie Hill and Janet Staples

Cyber Attacks: On The Front Line Of A Hack

Discussing pay is one of society’s big taboos - it’s just not the done thing to ask other people what they earn. And it can be even more hush-hush in the workplace - we’re not told to keep quiet, but somehow everyone does. And yet, most of us would love to know what our colleagues earn. So would lifting the lid on salaries trigger resentment and frustration, or be a tool for fairness and accountability? Evan Davis explores the pros and cons of pay transparency — from closing gender pay gaps to boosting retention – and speaks to one boss who’s tried a radical approach. Is it the next frontier in corporate accountability, or does the culture of secrecy still serve a purpose?
 
Evan is joined by:
 
Bob Leung, CEO, Grant Tree;
Justine Woolf, Director of Consulting, Innecto;
Clare Kelliher, Professor of Work and Organisation, Cranfield University School of Management.
 
Production team:
 
Producer: Osman Iqbal
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Neil Churchill and Pete Wise
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Pay: What If You Knew What Your Colleagues Earned?

The definitive business podcast from the BBC.
Each week host Evan Davis is joined by company bosses, entrepreneurs and industry experts, who lift the lid on how the world of business really works, and what it’s like to be in charge. 
From managing AI to managing millennials, from supermarkets to supercharging a new product, the panel tackles the big issues, big challenges, or big questions facing their industry. And they share stories of success and failure along the way, revealing the personalities and human dramas behind some of our best-known brands.  
The Bottom Line also has a spin-off series – Decisions That Made Me – of one-on-one interviews with entrepreneurs and business leaders about the pivotal moments in their careers. These shorter episodes take a deep dive into the moments of opportunity, risk, or crisis that have defined some of the UK’s best-known business figures.  
Podcasts are published every Thursday.
The Bottom Line is a BBC Long Form Audio Production for BBC Radio 4.

Introducing… The Bottom Line

President Trump’s tariffs on Chinese imports have shaken up the global economic order, but why have so many brands turned to China to make their products in the first place, and how exactly do they do it?
Evan Davis talks to three company bosses to find out what it’s really like doing business in the Far East and whether it's still as cheap and easy as it used to be. And if high tariffs persist, or get higher, where else in the world could do China's job?Evan is joined by:Nick Grey, founder and CEO, Gtech;
Kate Sbuttoni, founder, The Ginger Jar Lamp Co.;
Jonathan Duck, CEO, Amtico InternationalProduction team:Producer: Simon Tulett
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Jonny Baker and Nigel Appleton
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Made in China: How To Get A Product Manufactured In The Far East

Richard Farleigh grew up poverty-stricken in outback Australia as one of eleven children. When he was an infant, he was taken into care and spent most of his childhood in a foster home. A love of puzzles, a determination to prove himself, and some teachers who believed in his abilities, helped him gain a scholarship to university. From there he became a successful investment fund manager, eventually retiring at 34 to become an entrepreneur, and later an angel investor. The former dragon talks to Evan Davis about his new book Humble Stumbles, and how some of his early entrepreneurial decisions didn’t work out quite as well as he’d hoped.Production team:
Producers: Eleanor Harrison-Dengate, Georgiana Tudor
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: John Scott
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison(Photo credit: Visual Marvels)

The Decisions That Made Me: Richard Farleigh (Dragon’s Den, entrepreneur)

The child of immigrant parents to Australia, Erinch was taught to want a stable life. He was having a successful career at Proctor and Gamble, but one day had a realisation that this was not what he wanted to be doing with his life. Now Erinch is a business and enterprise lead at the Doughnut Economics Action Lab, and designs businesses so they follow a social or ecological purpose. The social enterprise expert talks to Evan Davis about how he dealt with discovering his values were not aligning with his career path and what he did next.   Production team:  
Producers: Nick Holland and Simon Tulett  
Editor: Matt Willis 
Sound: John Scott 
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Decisions That Made Me: Erinch Sahan (DEAL, Social Enterprise expert)

After 14 years of having a successful career in media, Sophie found herself unemployed. She thought with her skills and experience finding a new role would be easy, but it was the opposite. After struggling with applications and repeated denials, Sophie decided she wanted to change the process of applying for a job. The employment specialist talks to Evan Davis about how she’s trying to change the way recruitment works with her business Pollen Careers.Production team:
Producers: Nick Holland, Georgiana Tudor
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: John Scott
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison(Photo Credit: Sophie O’Brien)

Decisions that Made Me: Sophie O’Brien (Pollen Careers, CEO)

At a time when coding and IT was in its infancy, Sir Kenneth fortuitously took a computer class to get out of cross country running; that choice would shape the rest of his life. From an internship at IBM, he later went on to a senior position at Wang laboratories, but then was fired after an unsuccessful management buyout. He eventually struck out on his own and founded two merchant banks. The entrepreneur talks to Evan Davis about the moment he was fired after trying to engineer a management buyout, and then what happened next. Production team:  
Producers: Eleanor Harrison-Dengate 
Editor: Matt Willis 
Sound: John Scott 
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Decisions That Made Me: Sir Kenneth Olisa (technology entrepreneur)

When a family member gets sick, it can mean major changes to our lives. For Chris May, it meant he needed a role that could be done entirely from home. He quit his job, and created his own enterprise doing management consulting. One of the contracts he had after that was to create a report on the standards of north London hospitals. Instead of just a report, Chris created an entire database, and his work snowballed from there. The health technology entrepreneur talks to Evan Davis about how he eventually created the database for the entire NHS. Production team:  
Producers: Nick Holland and Simon Tulett
Editor: Matt Willis 
Sound: John Scott 
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Decisions That Made Me: Chris May (Mayden, Founding Director)

Grief hits everyone differently. For Claire Daniels, it changed her life; she had been working as the head of marketing for a technology firm and believed she’d keep climbing the corporate ladder, but after her brother’s death she found herself needing time out and quit. Later she began working for her sister in law’s business as a stopgap measure while she got herself back on track, but then that ended up becoming permanent. The marketing executive talks to Evan Davis about what it was like to work for family, and how she eventually became CEO of Trio media. Production team:  
Producer: Bob Howard 
Editor: Matt Willis 
Sound: John Scott 
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Decisions That Made Me: Claire Daniels (Trio Media, CEO)

An early passion for the high street meant Julian Metcalfe was determined to get into retail from the get-go. He and his partner Sinclair Beecham founded Pret A Manger when he was just 26. In 2008 Pret was sold to a private equity firm, and Julian no longer had a say in the company’s future. Now Julian is in charge of Itsu, an Asian-inspired fast-food chain. The food entrepreneur talks to Evan Davis about how he is determined not to lose his decision-making role this time around.  Production team:  
Producer: Eleanor Harrison-Dengate   
Editor: Matt Willis 
Sound: John Scott 
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Decisions That Made Me: Julian Metcalfe (Itsu and Pret A Manger)

Sonnaz Nooranvary thought she’d have to be a doctor or a lawyer to please her parents but struggled academically thanks to a combination of dyslexia and ADHD. Everything changed when she spotted an advert for an upholstery apprenticeship. She dropped out of college to build yachts from scratch. The upholsterer talks to Evan Davis about how she went against her family’s expectations to follow her instincts.Production team:
Producer: Bob Howard, Georgiana Tudor
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: John Scott
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison(Photo credit: Luke David)

Decisions That Made Me: Sonnaz Nooranvary (House of Sonnaz, upholsterer)

When high street travel firm Thomas Cook collapsed in 2019, it triggered the biggest ever peacetime repatriation, with 150,000 holidaymakers needing to be brought home. Alan French was the Group Strategy and Technology director at the time and had to preside over the disaster. Despite that, he was determined to revive the company and the next year relaunched Thomas Cook as a digital only brand. The travel executive talks to Evan Davis about how he managed to turn his fortunes around and resurrect the Thomas Cook name.Production team:
Producer: Drew Hyndman  
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: John Scott
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Decisions That Made Me: Alan French (Thomas Cook, CEO)

How would you invest £100k? Do entrepreneurs have super-human levels of optimism? How can you keep ownership of a great idea? In a first for The Bottom Line, Evan Davis puts questions like these - sent in by listeners - to a panel of business experts.Evan is joined by:
Sir Kenneth Olisa - chairman, Restoration Partners, and formerly founder and CEO, Interregnum;
Richard Farleigh - angel investor and former Dragon's Den 'dragon';
Jessica Spungin - adjunct professor of strategy and entrepreneurship, London Business School.Production team:
Producers: Simon Tulett and Eleanor Harrison-Dengate
Sound: Rod Farquhar
Production Coordinator: Katie Morrison
Editor: Matt Willis

Running a Business: The Bottom Line Answers Your Questions

Self-checkouts have become a staple in supermarkets, fast food chains and other shops, but now some companies are reconsidering their use. Evan Davis explores the technology's role in the retail landscape and asks whether we’ve reached peak self-checkout, or if they’re just a step on the way to an even more digitised shopping future. With insights from industry leaders and experts, he examines the economics behind un-manned tills, generational differences in consumer acceptance, and their links to a recent rise in shoplifting. Plus, is automation actually making our lives easier, and what's lost if the personal touch disappears from shopping?Guests:
Julian Metcalfe, founder, Itsu;
Robert Elsey, chief digital and information officer, Co-op
Natalie Berg, retail analyst and host of the Retail Disrupted podcastPresenter: Evan Davis
Producers: Simon Tulett and Eleanor Harrison-Dengate
Sound: Rod Farquhar
Production Coordinator: Katie Morrison
Editor: Matt Willis

Self-checkouts: Have Shops Reached Peak Self-Scan?

After a year in which a number of big companies decided to list in New York rather than the UK, Evan Davis asks what can be done to attract firms to the London Stock Exchange. With Julia Hoggett, CEO at the London Stock Exchange,  Charles Hall, Head of Research at the investment bank Peel Hunt and Conor Lawlor, Managing Director, Global Banking  Markets and International Affairs at UK finance.

London's Stock Exchange: why aren't companies listing in Britain anymore?

With the success of the BBC programme The Repair Shop, Evan Davis examines the business opportunities of companies which offer to repair things from clothes through to electronics.  Is it easier to try and fix something yourself or pay for it to be done professionally?  Do we still have the skills that previous generations had to do even relatively simple things like sewing on buttons?  With Kyle Wiens, CEO of Ifixit, Katharine Beacham, Head of Sustainability, Clothing & Home at Marks and Spencer and upholstery repair expert and Repair Shop presenter Sonnaz Nooranvary.

Repairs: How Can Businesses Make Money From Fixing Things?

Major US businesses have begun ditching or scaling back their diversity initiatives. Will UK firms be next? Evan Davis is joined by three guests who specialise on diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) schemes, as well as environmental and sustainability issues. Do they see signs of UK companies shifting their stance? And to what extent is the DEI industry - and their jobs - under threat? Guests: Daniel Fellows, General Manager of Diversio UK and EU 
Erinch Sahan, busines and enterprise lead at Doughnut Economics Action Lab 
Chris Turner, Executive Director of B Lab UK Production team
 
Producers: Farhana Haider, Simon Tulett and Eleanor Harrison-Dengate 
Sound: James Beard 
Production Coordinator: Katie Morrison 
Editor: Matt Willis

DEI: Are Businesses Dumping Workplace Diversity?

Evan Davis talks to the Estonian Ahti Heinla, co-founder of robot delivery firm Starship Technologies, which is hoping to expand across the UK.  Evan hears about Ahti's early life in Estonia, how he competed in a Nasa competition,  the start of the delivery system in Milton Keynes and how he thinks robot deliveries will grow in the future in Britain and worldwide.

Robots On the Doorstep: Is This The Future Of Food Delivery?

Can businesses operate without managers? It's an idea Amazon, Meta and Citigroup are exploring. Evan hears from the leaders of three companies who've already tried working that way, but with varying degrees of success.Guests:
Chris May: Founder of Mayden
Hazel Brown: CEO of Cornerstone
Luke Kyte: Operations Director of ReddicoPresenter: Evan Davis
Producers: Nick Holland and Bob Howard
Sound: James Beard
Production Coordinator: Katie Morrison
Editor: Matt Willis

Unbossing: Can We Work Without Managers?

Evan Davis explores if working the traditional five day week could be replaced by working four, eight hour days. Could working more efficiently benefit employees and bosses? With Joe Ryle, director of the 4 Day Week Campaign, Claire Daniels, CEO of Trio Media and Jen Thompson, managing director of the Crate Brewery.

A Four Day Week: Less Work for More People?

The advertising exec behind some of the most successful adverts of recent decades shares some of the decisions that have influenced his career, including an early decision to accept a lower salary and instead pursue and opportunity that would bring him more opportunities. Sir John would go out to co-found successful agencies Bartle Bogle Hegarty, and Saatchi and Saatchi. Today, Sir John says he shuns five year plans, instead focusing on 'five minute plans' and says he tries to make each day as interesting as it can be. Production team:
Producer: Drew Hyndman
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Rod Farquhar
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Decisions That Made Me: Sir John Hegarty (The Garage Soho, Founder)

Evan Davis gets up-to-date tips on finding a new job and hears how the process of making yourself stand out to an employer has changed over the years.Episode guests:
Sophie O'Brien: CEO and Founder of Pollen Careers
Depesh Nathwani: CEO of The Consumer Helpline Group
Shan Saba: Director of Brightwork StafflinePresenter: Evan Davis
Producers: Bob Howard and Nick Holland
Production Co-ordinator: Katie Morrison
Sound: Rod Farquhar
Editor: Matt WillisThe Bottom Line is produced in partnership with The Open University.

Networking: Will It Actually Help Me Get a Job?

Career clarity can be hard to find in the middle of a demanding 9 to 5, but sometimes getting away from it all for a while can make you realise what you really want from work. For Dana Denis-Smith, the world's highest mountain range did the trick. She tells Evan Davis how it inspired her to turn her back on an unfulfilling legal career, and later to start up her own company, Obelisk Support, which champions the talents of mothers who don't want to - or can't - return to work full time.Production team:
Producers: Simon Tulett and Drew Hyndman
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Rod Farquhar
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Decisions That Made Me: Dana Denis-Smith (Obelisk Support, CEO)

When your background differs from the people working with and around you, it’s easy to feel judged by the assumptions people make about you from class to gender. Whatever your upbringing, it’s something we all deal with - our backgrounds are always with us, either to be embraced, accepted, or fled from. Jordan Brompton, entrepreneur and co-founder of the smart energy tech company Myenergi, shares her experience as a working class woman and her love of solar panels.Production team:
Producers: Simon Tulett and Michaela Graichen
Researcher: Drew Hyndman
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Rod Farquhar
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Decisions That Made Me: Jordan Brompton (Myenergi, Co-founder)

When do you start that side hustle you've always talked about doing? What if it gets you fired from work? And even if you do leave, make your success and build your hustle into a successful business, can you ever decide to step away and go back to your career? Julian Douglas, global CEO of advertising agency VCCP, talks to Evan Davis about his decision to go in to advertising, being fired for his night life start up, and then walking away from the company he founded to go back to his former career. Production team:
Producers: Simon Tulett and Michaela Graichen
Researcher: Drew Hyndman
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Rod Farquhar
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Decisions That Made Me: Julian Douglas (VCCP, Global CEO)

When your business is about making products, and the factory you use gets into trouble, that’s potentially a big problem. Do you try to find another one, or do you try to fix it? Rob Law, entrepreneur and inventor of the Trunki children’s suitcase, had exactly this dilemma, and tells Evan Davis about the risky decision it prompted.He also discusses the illness and personal loss that have shaped his career, and recalls his infamous appearance on Dragon’s Den almost 20 years ago.Production team:
Producers: Simon Tulett and Michaela Graichen
Researcher: Drew Hyndman
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Rod Farquhar
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Decisions That Made Me: Rob Law (Trunki Suitcases, Inventor)

When inventor Tom Pellereau was on the verge of launching his latest invention for his fashion company, Stylideas, he couldn't have known what a key decision was about to face him. The Apprentice winner talks to Evan Davis about his business relationship with Alan Sugar, his passion for design and his experience of dyslexia that all led to a stand off over pricing that would make or break his company.Production team:
Producers: Simon Tulett and Michaela Graichen
Researcher: Drew Hyndman
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Rod Farquhar
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Decisions That Made Me: Tom Pellereau (Stylideas, Inventor)

What do you do when you’re unhappy at work? Maybe you’re burnt out from long hours? Or you see the way your employer does things and think to yourself “surely there’s a better way?” For many founders and CEO's, it's a familiar experience, and one that can spur them into the decision of starting their own business. Evan Davis talks to Elmarie Marais about her experience of crisis management, and how a crisis of her own led to the founding of her own company, GoCrisis.Production team:
Producers: Simon Tulett and Drew Hyndman
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Rod Farquhar
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Decisions That Made Me: Elmarie Marais (GoCrisis, Founder)

You've had a brilliant business idea. At least, you think you have. What do you do next? Evan Davis speaks to three successful entrepreneurs- including former contestants on The Apprentice and Dragons' Den. Where do the best ideas come from and how do you know when they are worth pursuing? What are the top tips for pitching and when is it time to let an idea go?Evan is joined by Rob Law, the inventor of the Trunki ride-on suitcase for kids, Pippa Murray, founder of the nut butter brand Pip & Nut and Tom Pellereau, who invented the curved nail file for his company Stylideas.Production team:
Producers: Simon Tulett and Michaela Graichen
Researcher: Drew Hyndman
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Rod Farquhar
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison(Picture: Getty Images, Credit: Teerachai Jampanak)

Ideas: How To Turn Your Dreams Into Business Reality

Why do advertising agencies use fear to get us to part with our money? Advertising agencies and marketing people use different techniques to push our buttons. Humour is one. But what about fear? Do they sometimes try to scare us into buying? Or is it a gentler art- playing on our insecurities about things like old age, poor health or thinning hair? Evan Davis speaks to Sir John Hegarty and Ian Gathard from the advertising industry and psychologist Juliane Beard, who studies how the brains of consumers work.Credits:
Volkswagen "Eyes on the Road" advertising stunt
Reebok trainers advertisement: "Lose the Beer Belly"
Aviva home insurance advertisementProduction team:
Producers: Simon Tulett and Michaela Graichen
Researcher: Drew Hyndman
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Neil Churchill
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison(Picture: Piccadilly Circus in London, Light Trails at night. Credit: Jonathan Herbert, JH Images via Getty Images)

Marketing: How Effective Is Fear In Advertising?

When Shivaun and Adam Raff's shopping and price comparison website all but vanished from Google's search results just days after launching, the pair began a gruelling legal battle that would end with a landmark judgement and the tech giant receiving a then record fine.European regulators found the search engine guilty of abusing its market dominance by making its own shopping recommendations appear more prominently than rivals' in its search results. Google spent seven years appealing its €2.4bn fine, but eventually lost in September this year.In their first interview since that verdict the Raffs tell Evan Davis the story behind their website - Foundem - and what they learned about big tech, regulation, and themselves during their almost 20-year fight.Evan is joined by:Shivaun and Adam Raff, co-founders, Foundem;
Anne Witt, professor of law, EDHEC business school.Credits:President Barack speaking to Kara Swisher, from the technology news website Recode, in February 2015;
Joaquín Almunia speaking at a European Commission press conference in February 2014;
Margarethe Vestager speaking at a European Commission press conference in June 2017.  Production team:Producer: Simon Tulett
Researcher: Drew Hyndman
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Jonny Baker and Neil Churchill
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison(Picture: The Google logo displayed on a mobile phone and computer monitor. Credit: Leon Neal/Getty Images/BBC)

Google: The Couple That Took On The Tech Giant

When a company finds itself facing war or natural disaster how can it get staff out of harm's way, and is there any chance of ensuring business as usual?Evan Davis speaks to one business leader who helped move hundreds of staff out of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia when war broke out in 2022. Two crisis response companies explain how they have been helping clients with people and operations in Lebanon, Israel and parts of the USA recently hit by hurricanes.Plus, what is an employer's obligation in these situations, and do the same rules apply to international as well as local hires?Evan is joined by:Ann Roberts, chief people officer, Flo;
James Waddington, global director of security assistance, International SOS;
Elmarie Marais, founder and CEO, GoCrisis;
and Anna, an employee at Wildix.Production team:Producer: Simon Tulett
Researchers: Drew Hyndman and Michaela Graichen
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Pete Wise and Tim Heffer
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison(Picture: A Ukrainian flag flies from a destroyed building in Mariupol, April 2022. Credit: Reuters/Alexander Ermochenko/BBC)

Evacuation: How to Rescue a Business From a War Zone

It must be one of the most-maligned professions out there - on a par, perhaps, with traffic wardens - but debt collectors perform a vital service to businesses and the wider economy. So why do we love to despise them? Evan Davis and guests discuss the industry's inner workings, from the public image of aggressive, burly bailiffs, to the reality of repayment plans prompted by artificial intelligence. We ask how most try to ensure they collect debts fairly, and also hear the other side of the debt story - how damaging and stressful it can be for businesses who desperately need the money.Plus, why do we find it so hard to talk about debt in the UK? We hear about the industry's efforts to tackle the stigma.Evan is joined by:John Pears, UK CEO, Lowell;
Amon Ghaiumy, co-founder and CEO, Ophelos;
Dana Denis-Smith, CEO and founder, Obelisk Support.Production team:Producer: Simon Tulett
Researcher: Farhana Haider
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Dafydd Evans and Sarah Hockley
Production co-ordinators: Rosie Strawbridge and Katie Morrison

Debt: Do Collectors Deserve Their Bad Reputation?

Side hustlers are seemingly everywhere - some surveys suggest they account for around half of UK workers - and stories of getting rich quick and abandoning the 9-5 are plenty. But the reality for many is much less glamorous: long hours; a precarious balancing act with the day job; and a good chance of failure. Evan Davis speaks to side hustlers, and their employers, to find out what it’s really like balancing two jobs at once. Plus, why is side hustling so popular anyway? Does it reveal a flourishing entrepreneurial spirit in the UK, particularly among young workers, or is it a symptom of a changing relationship between employer and employee?Evan is joined by:Julian Douglas, global CEO, VCCP;
Ewen MacPherson, chief people officer, Havas UK;
Karen Burke, founder, Go Goosey.  Production team:Producer: Simon Tulett
Researcher: Drew Hyndman
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Nicola Brough and Rod Farquhar
Production co-ordinator: Rosie Strawbridge

Side Hustles: What's It Like Balancing Two Jobs At Once?

The UK's power grid is undergoing a huge shift towards renewable energy, but running homes and businesses solely on this new form of electricity will be a delicate balancing act and will pose new choices for consumers.Evan Davis and guests discuss the challenge of matching supply - from wind and solar - with an increased demand from electric vehicles and homes using heat pumps rather than gas boilers.  Part of the solution could be consumers themselves - homes with EVs, solar panels or battery storage could act like mini power plants, sending energy back to the grid, as well as taking from it, and getting paid in the process. But that two-way exchange could bring harder decisions - would you let your energy company switch off your fridge for an hour to ease pressure on the grid?  Evan is joined by:
Cordi O’Hara, president of UK electricity distribution, National Grid;
Hamish Phillips, net zero business development director, Centrica;
Jordan Brompton, co-founder and chief marketing officer, Myenergi.Production team:
Producer: Simon Tulett
Researcher: Drew Hyndman
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Jonny Baker and Tim Heffer
Production co-ordinator: Rosie Strawbridge

New Tech: How Smart Is the Smart Energy System?

Every year has its business highs and lows which we don't often get an opportunity to chew over on The Bottom Line.This year is different. To mark our end of term, we thought we’d reflect on the business year and look at some of the highs and lows across the business landscape, creating our very own (and very unofficial) Bottom Line Business Awards. Three panellists, three categories, three nominations. Joining Evan are:
JESSICA SPUNGIN, Adjunct Professor of Strategy and Entrepreneurship at London Business School
SIR KEN OLISSA, Lord-Lieutenant of Greater London and Chair and founder of Restoration Partners, a bank for entrepreneurs
And NISHMA PATEL ROBB, current Executive Member of Women in Advertising and Communications Leadership, founder and CEO of The Glittersphere and formerly  Marketing Director at Google UKPRODUCTION TEAM:
Producers: Drew Hyndman and Alex Lewis
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Rod Farquhar
Production co-ordinator: Rosie Strawbridge

The Bottom Line (unofficial) Business Awards

Private schools in the UK are mostly registered as charities – but they are also businesses – businesses in the sense that they sell a service to paying customers.  They’ve recently been in the news because the new government has said it will remove their exemption from VAT.  In this episode we take a look at the business of private education: how it works, how much money is made and what will happen when exemption from VAT is removed from school fees.Evan Davis is joined by:
Geoffrey Stanford, Head of Royal Grammar School Newcastle  
Jesse Elzinga Head of Sevenoaks School
Cheryl Giovannoni, CEO, Girls' Day School Trust (GDST)   
Duncan Murphy, Director of Education, MTM ConsultingPRODUCTION TEAM:
Producers: Drew Hyndman and Alex Lewis
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Rod  Farquhar
Production co-ordinator: Rosie Strawbridge and Janet Staples

The business of private schools

All eyes have been on the new prime minister as he, and his team of ministers, settle into their jobs running the country.In this episode we consider the management challenge of taking over and starting a new role, maybe changing the direction of an organisation.  Three leaders from the world of business and the charity sector share their experience of coming in as a new broom, reflecting on the mistakes they made and advice they'd offer to the new Prime Minister.Evan Davis is joined by:
Stuart Hill, UK CEO, DHL 
Rachel Roxburgh, former CEO, Dallaglio RugbyWorks 
Alan French, CEO, Thomas Cook PRODUCTION TEAM:
Producers: Alex Lewis, Drew Hyndman, Miriam Quayyum and Diane Richardson
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: James Beard and Hal Haines
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison and Rosie Strawbridge

Being the new broom

Managing the rituals of a loved one's death can be both bewildering and expensive. And although no-one wants to think about it being like buying a holiday or car, it is a business with a supply chain involving funerals, burials and cremation. A couple of years ago the Competition and Markets Authority - which protects people from unfair trading practices - carried out an in-depth investigation into the funeral market because of the “surprise” people experienced at the final cost of that farewell. On average people spend about £4,000, so what do you get for that and how is the industry changing?Evan Davis is joined by:
Gill Stewart, Managing Director, Co-op Funeralcare 
Alison Crake, Senior Partner, Crake and Mallon Funeral Directors 
Kate Tym, independent celebrant 
And Greg Cranfield from JC Atkinson coffin makers.PRODUCTION TEAM:
Producers: Alex Lewis, Drew Hyndman and Miriam Quayyum
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: James Beard and Hal Haines
Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison and Rosie Strawbridge

The Business of Dying

Copyright law has been around since 1710. Back then it only applied to books. Now, it covers music, sport, film, television, video games, anything really.  It was also much easier to enforce in the days when people couldn't reproduce things all the time. That all started to change with the introduction of the humble music cassette tape. Now, we can all copy things and publish them to social media whenever we like.Devices which can circumvent geographical barriers have meant that streaming services have had to rethink their business models. And no-one knows quite yet the potential AI has to change things.So is it time that copyright law had a reboot?Evan Davis is joined by:
Lisa Ormrod, copyright lawyer and Associate Director at Springbird Law 
Nathalie Curtis Lethbridge, Founder of Atonik Digital which advises on streamed content and monetisation strategy
John McVay, Chief Executive of PACT, the trade body for independents working in the UK screen industry PRODUCTION TEAM:
Producers: Alex Lewis, Drew Hyndman and Miriam Quayyum
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: James Beard and Neil Churchill
Production co-ordinator: Rosie Strawbridge

Is copyright going wrong?

Millions of employees in the UK are now able to work flexibly – fitting their job around their home life. Many in office jobs, can finish early on a Friday, and are allowed, even encouraged, to routinely work from home. But, at the same time, we’re told that the levels of overwork, stress, and burnout in this country are on the rise. More than 17 million working days were lost to work-related stress, depression and anxiety in the last year for which we have data. So what’s going on?Evan Davis and guests discuss whether work is really making employees feel burnt out and what's the best way to tackle it.Evan is joined by:Jane Gratton: Head of People Policy at the British Chambers of Commerce
Riannon Palmer: Founder and CEO, Lem-uhn 
Catherine Allen: People Director at THIS! PRODUCTION TEAM:Producers: Simon Tulett, Drew Hyndman and Miriam Quayyum
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Robin Warren and Rod Farquhar
Production co-ordinator: Rosie Strawbridge

Is work getting more intense?

Every brand wants attention, to be seen as a must-have, but how do some manage stratospheric levels of popularity? It might happen organically, perhaps even by accident, but it’s also true that many brands engineer it.Evan Davis and guest discuss the tricks of the trade, from social media influencers to artificial scarcity, and the potential pitfalls when a product is so popular that it's almost impossible to get hold of.Plus, what is it that compels people to queue several hours for a sandwich, or pay ten times the usual price for a bottle of energy drink - we explore the consumer psychology behind the hype.Evan is joined by:Ellis Gilbert, founder of Soho Yacht Club and Talk Nice Studios;
Rory Sutherland, vice chair of Ogilvy UK;
Dr Cathrine Jansson-Boyd, reader in psychology at Anglia Ruskin University;
and Sian Evans, founder of Chatsworth Bakehouse.PRODUCTION TEAM:Producer: Simon Tulett
Researcher: Drew Hyndman
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Neil Churchill and Donald MacDonald
Production co-ordinator: Rosie Strawbridge(Picture: A customer jumps in the air as he leaves an iPhone store in London, after being the first person to buy the brand's latest phone. Credit: Ben A. Pruchnie/Getty Images)

Hype

China produces more than half the world's electric vehicles and is scaling up exports, but there are concerns its manufacturers would have an unfair advantage in the UK, which could spell disaster for domestic firms.Evan Davis and guests discuss the UK's dilemma around Chinese EVs - do we open our doors to the competition, which might mean cheaper electric cars for consumers and a quicker transition to net zero, or should the government follow the USA and EU in considering import restrictions to protect domestic car-makers?Plus, do buyers really care where their EV is made, and will 100% of new car sales be electric by 2035?Evan is joined by:Ginny Buckley, editor-in-chief and founder, electrifying.com;
Victor Zhang, UK country director of Omoda and Jaecoo (made by Chery);
James Taylor, UK managing director, Vauxhall;
Fraser Brown, managing director, MotorVisePRODUCTION TEAM:Producer: Simon Tulett
Researcher: Drew Hyndman
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: Neil Churchill
Production co-ordinator: Rosie Strawbridge

Electric Cars: Made in China?

With the entrepreneur, philanthropist and author.
 
The Decisions That Made Me A Leader is a mini-series from The Bottom Line. It features one-on-one interviews with entrepreneurs and business leaders, including Duncan Bannatyne, Martha Lane Fox, and the boss of Depop, Simon Beckerman. All of these episodes are available on BBC Sounds and you can also watch them on BBC iPlayer. To find the series, just search: The Decisions That Made Me A Leader. 
 
Host: Evan Davis
Producers: Paige Neal-Holder and Farhana Haider
Assistant Editor: Matthew Willis 
Senior News Editor: Sam Bonham
Commissioning Editor: Hugh Levinson

Dragon's Den's Duncan Bannatyne

Martha Lane Fox was first catapulted into the public eye during the dot.com boom as co-founder of lastminute.com the online agency she set up with Brent Hoberman in the late 1990s.It was valued at three quarters of a billion pounds when it floated on the London stock exchange in 2000. She then experienced a life change road accident while on holiday in Morocco when she was thrown from the passenger seat of an open-top car. She says she very nearly died. ‘They rank you in trauma I was a 37, 39 is dead’Her career has ranged from launching karaoke chain Lucky Voice to serving as the government’s digital champion and being on the board of twitter, during one its most complex times.  She is currently the President of the British Chamber of Commerce Evan asks about the key personal and business-related decisions that got her to where she is today.The Decisions That Made Me A Leader is a mini-series from The Bottom Line. It features one-on-one interviews with entrepreneurs and business leaders, including Duncan Bannatyne, Martha Lane Fox, and the boss of Depop, Simon Beckerman. All of these episodes are available on BBC Sounds and you can also watch them on BBC iPlayer. To find the series, just search: The Decisions That Made Me A Leader. You can also watch the series on BBC iPlayer. To find the series, just search: The Decisions That Made Me A Leader.Host: Evan Davis
Producers: Paige Neal-Holder and Farhana Haider
Assistant Editor: Matt Willis
Senior News Editor: Sam Bonham
Commissioning Editor: Hugh LevinsonA BBC News Long Form Audio production.

The Decisions That Made Me A Leader: Lastminute.com's Martha Lane Fox

Simon Beckerman is the founder of Depop, a platform where people can buy and sell pre-loved fashion, it currently has around 35 million registered users.  He sold the company to Etsy for £1.25 billion in 2021.Simon grew up in Italy to British and Italian parents who he describes as rebels in their own way and even as a teenager he knew he had to build his own business because ‘I was unemployable’His latest business, is DELLI a food app connecting independent retailers with consumers.
 
Evan asks about the key personal and business-related decisions that got him to where he is today.The Decisions That Made Me A Leader is a mini-series from The Bottom Line. It features one-on-one interviews with entrepreneurs and business leaders, including Duncan Bannatyne, Martha Lane Fox, and the boss of Depop, Simon Beckerman. All of these episodes are available on BBC Sounds and you can also watch them on BBC iPlayer. To find the series, just search: The Decisions That Made Me A Leader. You can also watch the series on BBC iPlayer. To find the series, just search: The Decisions That Made Me A Leader.Host: Evan Davis
Producers: Paige Neal-Holder and Farhana Haider
Assistant Editor: Matt Willis
Senior News Editor: Sam Bonham
Commissioning Editor: Hugh LevinsonA BBC News Long Form Audio production.

The Decisions That Made Me A Leader: The Depop Story

Evan Davis sits down with Richard Walker the Executive Chairman of Iceland foods a company founded by his father.  Richard started at Iceland Foods in 2012 from the bottom up working as a shelf stacker at the start.A qualified chartered surveyor he is an entrepreneur in his own right having set-up a property business, Bywater Properties, of which he is still chairman.A fan of physical challenges he’s climbed Everest and was running his first London Marathon this year when he collapsed less than two miles from the finish line and says ice saved his life.Evan asks about the key personal and business-related decisions that got him to where he is today.The Decisions That Made Me A Leader is a mini-series from The Bottom Line. It features one-on-one interviews with entrepreneurs and business leaders, including Duncan Bannatyne, Martha Lane Fox, and the boss of Depop, Simon Beckerman. All of these episodes are available on BBC Sounds and you can also watch them on BBC iPlayer. To find the series, just search: The Decisions That Made Me A Leader. You can also watch the series on BBC iPlayer. To find the series, just search: The Decisions That Made Me A Leader.Host: Evan Davis
Producers: Paige Neal-Holder and Farhana Haider
Assistant Editor: Matt Willis
Senior News Editor: Sam Bonham
Commissioning Editor: Hugh LevinsonA BBC News Long Form Audio production.

The Decisions That Made Me A Leader: How Ice Saved My Life

Evan Davis sits down with Timo Armoo, the founder of social media advertising business Fanbytes, which he set up when he was 21 with two friends.Aged 27 he sold the company, which connects social media influencers with brands, for an eight-figure sum, saying he can now retire a multi-millionaire.Timo was born in Hackney in London but moved to Ghana to live with his grandmother when he was 3 months old. He returned to the UK and grew up on a council estate in south London and says he always had this burning feeling that he was destined for more.Evan asks about the key personal and business-related decisions that got him to where he is today.The Decisions That Made Me A Leader is a mini-series from The Bottom Line. It features one-on-one interviews with entrepreneurs and business leaders, including Duncan Bannatyne, Martha Lane Fox, and the boss of Depop, Simon Beckerman. All of these episodes are available on BBC Sounds and you can also watch them on BBC iPlayer. To find the series, just search: The Decisions That Made Me A Leader. You can also watch the series on BBC iPlayer. To find the series, just search: The Decisions That Made Me A Leader.Host: Evan Davis
Producers: Paige Neal-Holder and Farhana Haider
Assistant Editor: Matt Willis
Senior News Editor: Sam Bonham
Commissioning Editor: Hugh LevinsonA BBC News Long Form Audio production.

The Decisions That Made Me A Leader: How To Retire Before 30

Krisi Smith started Bird and Blend Tea company with business partner Mike knowing very little about tea or running a business. She drew up their mission statement in the pub whilst working as a ski instructor in Canada.They started up working in her mums back bedroom to now running 20 retail stores across the UK.Before starting the company she had more than 30 jobs and that’s just by the age of 24. For her, putting people are the forefront is what business is about.Krisi talks about the challenges of opening a business with your partner in life as well as business. ‘Got married, got divorced, and we're now just business partners.’Evan asks about the key personal and business-related decisions that got her to where she is today.The Decisions That Made Me A Leader is a mini-series from The Bottom Line. It features one-on-one interviews with entrepreneurs and business leaders, including Duncan Bannatyne, Martha Lane Fox, and the boss of Depop, Simon Beckerman. All of these episodes are available on BBC Sounds and you can also watch them on BBC iPlayer. To find the series, just search: The Decisions That Made Me A Leader. You can also watch the series on BBC iPlayer. To find the series, just search: The Decisions That Made Me A Leader.Host: Evan Davis
Producers: Paige Neal-Holder and Farhana Haider
Assistant Editor: Matt Willis
Senior News Editor: Sam Bonham
Commissioning Editor: Hugh LevinsonA BBC News Long Form Audio production.

The Decisions That Made Me A Leader: I Started My Business From Mum's Spare Bedroom

Evan Davis makes up crisis management scenarios to see how three CEOs handle a business emergency. To make it more realistic none of the guests know what the predicaments are before speaking to Evan.Guests:
Kathryn Jacob, CEO of Pearl and Dean
Dame Inga Beale, former CEO of Lloyd's of London
Justin King, former CEO of Sainsbury'sProduction Team:
Presenter: Evan Davis
Editor: Matt Willis
Producer: Simon Tulet & Paige Neal-Holder
Sound: Sarah Hockley & Rod Farquhar

In the eye of a crisis

A typical career, for many, involves some kind of progression, or at least the expectation of it, until we stop and retire. But is there a better model?Evan Davis and guests discuss whether more of us should think about easing into retirement by taking more junior roles, going part time, or switching profession altogether, instead of stepping off a career cliff edge when we reach pension age. Could this expand the number of job opportunities for older workers, whilst also helping younger workers push through the ranks?Stepping back isn’t an option open to all, though, and there could be big implications for pensions, so how should older workers begin to calculate if, or when, it might be possible?  
 
Evan is joined by:Matthew Rideout, founder of Knead & Desire Bakehouse;
Sir Howard Davies, chairman of NatWest Group;
Zoe Ashdown, head of culture and people engagement at AXA UK and Ireland.Thanks also to the listeners who sent in voice notes, and to everyone else who emailed bottomline@bbc.co.ukPRODUCTION TEAM:Producers: Simon Tulett
Researcher: Paige Neal-Holder
Editor: Matt Willis
Sound: James Beard and Rod Farquhar
Production co-ordinator: Rosie StrawbridgeThe Bottom Line is produced in partnership with The Open University.(Picture: An older man laughing and looking at a laptop with a young woman in a workshop. Credit: Alys Tomlinson/Getty Images)