Decoder with Nilay Patel

Today, I’m talking with Roy Jakobs. He’s the CEO of Royal Philips, which makes medical devices ranging from MRI machines to ventilators. Philips has a long history —- the company began in the late 19th century as a lightbulb manufacturer, and over the past century it’s grown and shrunk in various ways. Basically, while every other company has been trying to get bigger, Philips has been paring itself down to a tight focus on healthcare, and Roy and I talked about why that market is worth the focus.  Roy and I also talked about an ongoing controversy at Philips that he had a part in: In 2021, after years of consumer complaints, Philips was made to recall millions of its breathing machines. Those devices were eventually tied to more than 500 deaths. That’s a pretty big decision, with massive life-or-death consequences, and you’ll hear us talk about it in detail. Links:  Problems reported with recalled Philips ventilators, BiPAP & CPAP machines | FDA FDA says 561 deaths tied to recalled Philips sleep apnea machines | CBS News Philips kept complaints about dangerous breathing machines secret | ProPublica Top Philips executive approved sale of defective breathing machines | ProPublica Philips reaches final pact with DOJ, FDA on ventilator recall | WSJ Philips suspends U.S. sales of breathing machines after recall | NYT CPAP maker reaches $479 million settlement on breathing device defects | NYT Philips exits shrinking home entertainment business | Reuters Original TSMC investor Philips sells off final shares | PC World Philips unveils new AI-powered cardiovascular ultrasound | Mass Device Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24006874 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve been covering the rise of AI image editing very closely here on Decoder and at The Verge for several years now — the ability to create photorealistic images with nothing more than a chatbot prompt could completely reset our cultural relationship to photography. But one argument keeps cropping up in response. You’ve heard it a million times, and it’s when people say “it’s just like Photoshop,” with “Photoshop” standing in for the concept of image editing generally.  So today, we’re trying to understand exactly what it means, and why our new world of AI image tools is different — and yes, in some cases the same. Verge reporter Jess Weatherbed recently dove into this for us, and I asked her to join me in going through the debate and the arguments one by one to help figure it out. Links:  You’re here because you said AI image editing was just like Photoshop | The Verge No one’s ready for this | The Verge The AI photo editing era is here, and it’s every person for themselves | The Verge Google’s AI ‘Reimagine’ tool helped us add disasters and corpses to photos | The Verge X’s new AI image generator will make Taylor Swift in lingerie and Kamala Harris with a gun | The Verge Grok will make gory images — just tell it you're a cop. | The Verge Leica launches first camera with Content Credentials | Content Authenticity Initiative You can use AI to get rid of Samsung’s AI watermark | The Verge Spurred by teen girls, states move to nan deepfake nudes | NYT Florida teens arrested for creating ‘deepfake’ AI nude images of classmates | The Verge Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Mike Krieger, the new chief product officer at Anthropic, one of the hottest AI companies in the industry. Anthropic’s main product right now is Claude, the name of both its industry-leading AI model and a chatbot that competes with ChatGPT.  Mike has a fascinating resume: he was the cofounder of Instagram, and then started AI-powered newsreader Artifact. I was a fan of Artifact, so I wanted to know more about the decision to shut it down as well as the decision to sell it to Yahoo. And then I wanted to know why Mike decided to join Anthropic and work in AI — an industry with a lot of investment, but very few consumer products to justify it. What’s this all for?  Links:  Instagram co-founder Mike Krieger is Anthropic’s new chief product officer | The Verge Instagram’s co-founders are shutting down their Artifact news app | The Verge Yahoo resurrects Artifact inside a new AI-powered News app | The Verge Authors sue Anthropic for training AI using pirated books | The Verge The text file that runs the internet | The Verge Anthropic’s crawler is ignoring websites’ anti-AI scraping policies | The Verge Golden Gate Claude | Anthropic Inside the white-hot center of AI doomerism | New York Times Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic, on the paradoxes of AI safety | Hard Fork No one’s ready for this | The Verge OpenAI announces SearchGPT, its AI-powered search engine | The Verge Amazon-backed Anthropic rolls out Claude AI for big business | CNBC Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24001603 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The web has a problem: huge chunks of it keep going offline. The web isn’t static, parts of it sometimes just… vanish. But it’s not all grim. The Internet Archive has a massive mission to identify and back up our online world into a vast digital library. In 2001, it launched the Wayback Machine, an interface that lets anyone call up snapshots of sites and look at how they used to be and what they used to say at a given moment in time. Mark Graham, director of the Wayback Machine, joins Decoder this week to explain both why and how the organization tries to keep the web from disappearing. Links:  When Online Content Disappears | Pew Research Game Informer is shutting down | The Verge When Media Outlets Shutter, Why Are the Websites Wiped, Too? Slate MTV News lives on in the Internet Archive | The Verge The video game industry is mourning the loss of Game Informer | The Verge Guest host Hank Green makes Nilay Patel explain why websites have a future | Decoder How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral | Decoder The Internet Archive is defending its digital library in court today | The Verge The Internet Archive has lost its first fight to scan and lend ebooks | The Verge The Internet Archive just lost its appeal over ebook lending | The Verge Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Decoder is off this week for a short end-of-summer break. We’ll be back with both our interview and explainer episodes after the Labor Day holiday. In the meantime we thought we’d re-share an explainer that’s taken on a whole new relevance in the last couple weeks, about deepfakes and misinformation. In February, I talked with Verge policy editor Adi Robertson how the generative AI boom might start fueling a wave of election-related misinformation, especially deepfakes and manipulated media. It’s not been quite an apocalyptic AI free-for-all out there. But the election itself took some really unexpected turns in these last couple of months. Now we’re heading into the big, noisy home stretch, and use of AI is starting to get really weird — and much more troublesome.  Links:  The AI-generated hell of the 2024 election | The Verge AI deepfakes are cheap, easy, and coming for the 2024 election | Decoder Elon Musk posts deepfake of Kamala Harris that violates X policy | The Verge Donald Trump posts a fake AI-generated Taylor Swift endorsement | The Verge X’s Grok now points to government site after misinformation warnings | The Verge Political ads could require AI-generated content disclosures soon | The Verge The Copyright Office calls for a new federal law regulating deepfakes | The Verge How AI companies are reckoning with elections | The Verge The lame AI meme election | Axios Deepfakes' parody loophole | Axios Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Decoder is off this week for a short end-of-summer break. We’ll be back with both our interview and explainer episodes after the Labor Day holiday, and I’m very excited for what we have coming up on the schedule.  But while we’re out, we’d like to highlight a great episode from the Land of the Giants podcast, which is over at Vulture this season, for a deep dive into Disney. Can it be a tech company? It’s the question that defines the struggles of its streaming service Disney Plus — and it also tells us where it needs to go in the future to compete with Amazon, Apple, and Netflix.  Links:  Disney Is a Tech Company? | Vulture Why Disney plussed itself | Vulture Disney’s CEO drama explained, with Julia Alexander | Decoder The clock is ticking on Disney’s streaming strategy | Decoder The Disney Plus, Hulu, and Max streaming bundle is now available | The Verge Disney reportedly wants to bring always-on channels to Disney Plus | The Verge How baseball's tech team built the future of television | The Verge The year Netflix ended the streaming wars | The Ringer   Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Onion is a comedy institution — and like everything else in media, it went on a pure nightmare hell ride in the 2010s. We could do an entire episode on the G/O Media calamity, but the short version is: A bunch of friends just managed to buy The Onion, and they're busy relaunching the website, going back to print, and, clearly, having a blast doing it. CEO Ben Collins and chief product officer Danielle Strle joined me to explain how that even works in 2024. Links:  The Onion sold by G/O Media | The New York Times Sam Reich on revamping the game show - and Dropout’s success | NPR Platformer’s Casey Newton on surviving the great media collapse | Decoder Craig Silverman: Digital advertising’s structure has been weaponized | Digiday US Warns a Gaza Ceasefire Would Only Benefit Humanity | The Onion The Truth is Paywalled but the Lies are Free | Current Affairs A newsroom expands and The Onion is out again on paper | Washington Post Report: Nuclear War Sounds Fucking Amazing Right Now | The Onion Google defends AI search results after they told us to put glue on pizza | The Verge Jury awards nearly $1B to Sandy Hook families in Alex Jones defamation case | CNN ‘No Way to Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens | The Onion Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23989633 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I’m talking with Thomas Dohmke, the CEO of GitHub. GitHub is the platform for managing code – but since 2018, it’s also been owned by Microsoft. We talk a lot about how independent GitHub really is inside of Microsoft — especially now that Microsoft is all-in on AI, and Gitbhub Copilot is one of the biggest AI product success stories that exists right now. But his perspective on AI is pretty refreshing: It’s clear there’s still a long way to go. Links:  Original GitHub landing page | Wayback Machine Introducing Entitlements | GitHub Blog ashtom (Thomas Dohmke) | GitHub The developers suing over GitHub Copilot got dealt a major blow in court | The Verge GitHub Copilot can now help start a project with AI | The Verge GitHub users can mess around with different AI models | The Verge GitHub’s AI-powered Copilot will help you write code for $10 a month | The Verge Google DeepMind co-founder joins Microsoft as CEO of its new AI division | The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23986019 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There’s a major internet speech regulation currently making its way through Congress, and it has a really good chance of becoming law. It’s called KOSPA: the Kids Online Safety and Privacy Act, which passed in the Senate with overwhelming bipartisan support late last month. At a high level, KOSPA could radically change how tech platforms handle speech in an effort to try and make the internet safer for minors.  It’s a controversial bill, with a lot going on. To break it all down, I invited on Verge senior policy reporter Lauren Feiner, who’s been covering these bills for months now, to explain what’s happening, what these bills actually do, and what the path forward for this legislation looks like. Links:  Senate passes the Kids Online Safety Act | The Verge The teens lobbying against the Kids Online Safety Act | The Verge How the Kids Online Safety Act was dragged into a political war | NYT House Republicans won’t bring up KOSA in its current form | Punchbowl News Why a landmark kids online safety bill is still deeply divisive | NBC News Why Sen. Schatz thinks child safety bills can trump the First Amendment | Decoder Child safety bills are reshaping the internet for everyone | The Verge Online age verification is coming, and privacy is on the chopping block | The Verge Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Replika founder and CEO Eugenia Kuyda, and I will just tell you right away, we get all the way to people marrying their AI companions, so get ready. It’s a ride. Replika’s basic pitch is pretty simple: what if you had an AI friend? The company offers avatars you can curate to your liking that pretend to be human, so they can be your friend, your therapist, or even your date. That’s a lot for a private company running an iPhone app, and Eugenia and I talked a lot about the consequences of this idea and what it means for the future of human relationships.  Links:  The AI boyfriend business is booming | Axios Speak, Memory | The Verge Your new AI Friend is almost ready to meet you | Verge What happens when sexting chatbots dump their human lovers | Bloomberg AI chatbot company Replika restores erotic roleplay for some users — Reuters Replika’s New AI App Is Like Tinder but With Sexy Chatbots — Gizmodo Replika’s new AI therapy app tries to bring you to a zen island — The Verge Replika CEO: AI chatbots aren’t just for lonely men | Fortune Gaze Into the Dystopian Hell of Bots Dating Bots | Slate Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23980789 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Jonathan Kanter, the assistant attorney general for antitrust at the United States Department of Justice. This is Jonathan’s second time on the show, and it’s a bit of an emergency podcast situation. On Monday, a federal court issued a monumental decision in the DOJ’s case against Google, holding that Google Search and the text ads in search are monopolies.  The court hasn’t decided on the penalties for all this yet — that process is scheduled to start next month. But it’s the biggest antitrust win against a tech company since the Microsoft case from two decades ago. I wanted to know what Jonathan thought of the ruling, what it means for the law, and most importantly, what remedies he’s going to seek to try and restore competition in search.  Links:  Judge rules that Google ‘is a monopolist’ in US antitrust case | The Verge All the spiciest parts of the Google antitrust ruling | The Verge Now that Google is a monopolist, what’s next? | The Verge DOJ’s Kanter says the antitrust fight against Big Tech is just beginning | Decoder The DOJ Antitrust Division isn’t afraid to go to court | The Verge The US government is gearing up for an AI antitrust fight | The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23979725 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Glenn Fogel, the CEO of Booking Holdings, which owns a large portfolio of familiar travel brands: OpenTable, Kayak, and Priceline, as well as its largest subsidiary, Booking.com. This episode is pure Decoder bait all the way through — from Booking’s structure, to competition with hotels and airlines increasingly going direct to consumer, even to how European regulation affects competition with Google. Oh, and of course, how Booking is incorporating AI; Glenn has some fascinating thoughts there. Glenn really got into it with me — there’s a lot going on in this space, and it’s interesting because there are so many players and so much competition across so many of the layers, even among Booking’s own subsidiaries. I think we probably could have gone twice as long.  Links:  The oral history of travel’s greatest acquisition | Skift Long-term travel looks like a strong growth industry, says Booking’s Glenn Fogel | CNBC Ryanair wins screen-scraping case against Booking.com | Airways Aggregation Theory | Stratechery A Call for Embracing AI—But With a ‘Human Touch’ | Time Booking.com launches new AI Trip Planner | Booking Priceline releases new AI platform and ‘Penny’ chatbot | Skift Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23976178 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Amanda Rose Smith. Our supervising producer is Liam James. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Every time we talk about AI, we get one big piece of feedback that I really want to dive into: how the lightning-fast explosion of AI tools affects the climate. AI takes a lot of energy, and there’s a huge unanswered question as to whether using all that juice for AI is actually worth it, both practically and morally.  It’s messy and complicated and there are a bunch of apparent contradictions along the way — so it’s perfect for Decoder. Verge senior science reporter Justine Calma joins me to see if we can untangle this knot. Links:  This startup wants to capture carbon and help data centers cool down | The Verge Google’s carbon footprint balloons in its Gemini AI era | The Verge Taking a closer look at AI’s supposed energy apocalypse | Ars Technica AI is exhausting the power grid. Tech firms are seeking a miracle | WaPo AI Is already wreaking havoc on global power systems | Bloomberg What do Google’s AI answers cost the environment? | Scientific American AI is an energy hog | MIT Tech Review Microsoft’s AI obsession is jeopardizing its climate ambitions | The Verge The answer to AI’s energy needs could be blowing in the wind | The Verge AI already uses as much energy as a small country | Vox Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Callie Wright and Amanda Rose Smith. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Hanneke Faber, the CEO of Logitech. Hanneke’s still pretty fresh to the role: She joined the company last October, after former CEO Bracken Darrell left following the pandemic boom and subsequent economic slowdown that halted Logitech’s growth. Hanneke, who comes from Unilever and Procter & Gamble, is new to the world of consumer electronics.  So we talked about the structural changes she’s already making at Logitech, and the changes she intends to make in the future. It sounds like some Logitech products, like its smart home doorbells and cameras, are not long for this world. You’ll also hear Hanneke talk about a concept called the “forever mouse” — a mouse you buy once and upgrade over time with new software features — features that of course might carry a subscription fee. Subscription mice! It’s a lot. Links:  How Logitech bet big on work from home | Decoder Logitech CEO Bracken Darrell is leaving for another job | The Verge Webcams have become impossible to find, and prices are skyrocketing | The Verge Logitech appoints Hanneke Faber as new CEO | Reuters Logitech’s new low-profile keyboard fits Cherry MX keycaps | The Verge Logitech’s Meta Quest stylus helps artists work in 3D | The Verge Logitech targets faster growth via education, health and AI | Reuters Logitech wants you to press its new AI button | The Verge Logitech’s best gaming mouse just got better | The Verge Logitech’s articulating arm webcam launches on Indiegogo | The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23970888 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Supreme Court has just taken on the entire idea of the US administrative state — and the Court is winning. Earlier this month, a conservative majority overturned a longstanding legal principle called Chevron deference. The implications are enormous for every possible kind of regulation — and net neutrality looks poised to be the first victim. Verge editor Sarah Jeong joins me to explain why. Links:  Supreme Court overrules Chevron, kneecapping federal regulators | The Verge What SCOTUS just did to broadband, the right to repair, the environment, and more | The Verge FCC votes to restore net neutrality | The Verge Reinstatement of net neutrality rules temporarily halted by appeals court | The Verge Clarence Thomas' 38 Vacations: The Other Billionaires Who Have Treated the Supreme Court Justice to Luxury Travel | ProPublica The Supreme Court's coming war with Joe Biden | Vox Transcript:  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Rivian founder and CEO RJ Scaringe. RJ was on the show last September when we chatted at the Code Conference, but the past 10 months have seen a whirlwind of change throughout the car industry and at Rivian in particular. This year alone, the company unveiled five new models in its lineup and also just announced a $5 billion joint venture with Volkswagen. We got into all that and more.  If you’re a Decoder listener, you’ve heard me talk to a lot of car CEOs on the show, but it’s rare to talk to a car company founder, and RJ was game to talk about basically anything — even extremely minor feature requests I pulled from the forums. It’s a fun one. Links: Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe isn't scared of the Cybertruck | Decoder VW will invest up to $5 billion in Rivian as part of new EV joint venture | The Verge Rivian blazed a trail with its adventure EVs — can it stay on top? | The Verge Rivian R2 revealed: a $45,000 electric off-roader for the masses | The Verge Rivian surprises with R3 and R3X electric SUVs | The Verge Rivian puts its Georgia factory plans on pause | The Verge Rivian’s R1 vehicles are getting a gut overhaul | The Verge Rivian R1S review: king of the mountain | The Verge Rivian’s long, narrow road to profit | WSJ Tesla’s Share of U.S. Electric Car Market Falls Below 50% | NYT Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23965790 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week I’m talking to Matthew Ball, who was last on the show in 2022 to talk about his book “The Metaverse: How it Will Revolutionize Everything.” It’s 2024 and it’s safe to say that has not happened yet. But Matt’s still on the case — in fact he just released an almost complete update of the book, now with the much more sober title, “Building the Spatial Internet.” Matt and I talked a lot about where the previous metaverse hype cycle landed us, and what there is to learn from these boom and bust waves. We talked about the Apple Vision Pro quite a bit; if you read or watched my review when it came out, you’ll know I think the Vision Pro is almost an end point for one set of technologies. I wanted to know if Matt felt the same and what needs to happen to make all of this more mainstream and accessible. Links:  Fully revised and updated edition to the “The Metaverse” | W.W. Norton Apple Vision Pro review: magic, until it’s not | The Verge Apple’s Vision Pro: five months later | Vergecast Is the metaverse going to suck? A conversation with Matthew Ball | Decoder Interviewing Meta CTO Andrew Bosworth on the Metaverse, VR/AR, AI | Matthew Ball Interviewing Epic CEO Tim Sweeney and author Neal Stephenson | Matthew Ball An Interview with Matthew Ball about Vision Pro and the state of gaming | Stratechery Tim Sweeney explains how the metaverse might actually work | The Verge Fortnite is winning the metaverse | The Verge Is the Metaverse Just Marketing? | NYT Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Arati Prabhakar, the director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy. That’s a cabinet-level position, where she works as the chief science and tech advisor to President Biden. Arati and her team of about 140 people at the OSTP are responsible for advising the president on not only big developments in science but also about major innovations in tech, much of which come from the private sector.  Her job involves guiding regulatory efforts, government investment, and setting priorities around big-picture projects like Biden’s cancer moonshot and combating climate change. More recently, Arati has been spending a lot of time talking about the future of AI and semiconductors, so I had the opportunity to dig into both of those topics with her as the generative AI boom continues and the results of the CHIPS Act become more visible.  One note before we start: I sat down with Arati last month, just a couple of days before the first presidential debate and its aftermath, which swallowed the entire news cycle. So you’re going to hear us talk a lot about President Biden’s agenda and the White House’s policy record on AI, among other topics. But you’re not going to hear anything about the president, his age, or the presidential campaign. Links:  Biden’s top science adviser resigns after acknowledging demeaning behavior | NYT Teen girls confront an epidemic of deepfake nudes in schools | NYT Senate committee passes three bills to safeguard elections from AI | The Verge The RIAA versus AI, explained | The Verge Lawyers say OpenAI could be in real trouble with Scarlett Johansson | The Verge Barack Obama on AI, free speech, and the future of the internet | Decoder Meet the Woman Who Showed President Biden ChatGPT | WIRED Biden releases AI executive order | The Verge Biden’s science adviser explains the new hard line on China | WashPo Where the CHIPS Act money has gone | The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23961278 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I’m talking to Nicholas Thompson, the CEO of The Atlantic. I was really excited to talk to Nick. Like so many media CEOs, including Vox Media’s, he just signed a deal allowing OpenAI to use The Atlantic’s vast archives as training data, but he also has a rich background in tech. Before he was the CEO of The Atlantic, Nick was the editor-in-chief of Wired, where he set his sights on AI reporting well before anyone else. I was also really interested in asking Nick about the general sense that the AI companies are getting vastly more than they’re giving with these sorts of deals — yes, they’re paying some money, but I’ve heard from so many of you that the money might now be the point — that there’s something else going on here – that maybe allowing creativity to get commodified this way will come with a price tag so big money can never pay it back. If there is anyone who could get into it with me on that question, it’s Nick. Links:  Vox Media and The Atlantic sign content deals with OpenAI | The Verge Journalists “deeply troubled” by OpenAI’s content deals with Vox, The Atlantic | Ars Technica What the RIAA lawsuits mean for AI and copyright | The Verge Perplexity plagiarized our story about how Perplexity Is a bullshit machine | Wired How to stop Perplexity and save the web from bad AI | Platformer The text file that runs the internet | The Verge OpenAI, WSJ owner News Corp strike content deal valued at over $250 Million | WSJ The media bosses fighting back against AI — and the ones cutting deals — WashPo The New York Times spent $1 million so far in its OpenAI lawsuit | The Verge AI companies have all kinds of arguments against paying for copyrighted content | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Canva got its start more than a decade ago as a different form of disruptive tech for creatives. It’s a web-based platform that makes design tools cheaper and accessible for individuals, schools, and businesses from tiny to enterprise. Melanie has big goals to grow the company — and try to do good in the process. Links:  Canva tackled digital design — and now the office suite is next | The Verge Canva Inks Deals With Warner Music Group, Merlin | Variety Canva founders join Bill Gates’ Giving Pledge to give away most of their fortune | Sydney Morning Herald Canva partnership tackling extreme poverty in Malawi one year on | GiveDirectly Canva’s Two-Step Plan: Celebrating 10 years of impact | Canva Adobe’s new terms of service aren’t the problem — it’s the trust | The Verge ‘The general perception is: Adobe is an evil company that will do whatever it takes to F its users.’ | The Verge Why Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen thinks AI is the future | The Verge Canva corporate 'Hamilton' cringe rap presentation goes viral | YouTube Transcript:  https://www.theverge.com/e/23955121 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s almost the Fourth of July, and that means it’s time for our annual grilling episode. This year, I’m talking with Big Green Egg CEO Dan Gertsacov, who has big plans for using very modern fan-based marketing techniques to expand the market for the company’s old-fashioned, fire-burning, aspirational product.  Links:  Big Green Egg Appoints a New CEO | CookOut News Big Green Egg 50th Anniversary 1974-2024 | Big Green Egg Yep, Big Green Egg Just Made a Beer Keg | Gear Patrol AI could kill creative jobs that ‘shouldn’t have been there in the first place,’ OpenAI CTO says | Fortune Campfires, explained | Vox An ‘Epidemic’ of Loneliness Threatens Health of Americans | Scientific American  RIP: Here are 70 things millennials have killed | Mashable “Genius of the AND” | Jim Collins Keurig's attempt to 'DRM' its coffee cups totally backfired | The Verge A Look at the Danny Meyer Documentary The Restaurateur | Eater Transcript:  https://www.theverge.com/e/23952121 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we’re talking about politics and lobbying in America. It’s hard to imagine a time when the influence of big corporations and billionaires didn’t touch every part of American politics, but the kind of lobbying we have now didn’t really exist before the 1970s. Now, our political debates about everything from energy, finance, and healthcare are deeply intertwined with corporations and their money — and new big players in tech now spend tons of political money of their own. To understand the structure of today’s political lobbying and how we go here, I brought Pulitzer Prize winner Brody Mullins on the show. Brody has a new book he co-wrote with his brother Luke Mullins called The Wolves of K Street: The Secret History of How Big Money Took Over Big Government, which came out last month. It’s a definitive history of modern lobbying in America, told through the lens of some of the industry’s most unsavory characters and the influence they’ve exerted on DC politics across decades.  Links: If Donald Trump Wins, Paul Manafort Will Be Waiting in the Wings | NYT Meta had its biggest lobbying quarter ever | The Verge Apple quietly bankrolled a lobbying group for app developers | The Verge The Many Reinventions of a Legendary Washington Influence Peddler | Politico  The Wolves of K Street review: how lobbying swallowed Washington | The Guardian Big Tech Has a New Favorite Lobbyist: You | WSJ SOPA bill shelved after global protests from Google, Wikipedia and others | WashPo The Russia Inquiry Ended a Democratic Lobbyist’s Career. He Wants It Back. | NYT The Swamp Builders | WashPo The Rise and Fall of a K Street Renegade | WSJ Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Greg Peters, the co-CEO of Netflix. I caught up with Greg while he was at the Cannes Lions festival in France, which is basically the world’s biggest gathering of advertisers and marketers. It’s an increasingly important place for Greg to be, as Netflix’s new ad tier has nearly doubled in six months to more than 40 million subscribers and feels increasingly pivotal to the future of the company.  On top of that, Netflix is updating its famous culture memo, and I wanted to chat with Greg about the changes he’s making to that document, and how he’s thinking about maintaining that culture as Netflix grows into things like advertising and gaming. Links:  Netflix Culture Memo | Netflix Netflix Culture Memo (2009) | Netflix Streaming is cable now | The Verge Netflix’s ad tier hits 40 million users | The Verge Netflix is different now — and there’s no going back | The Verge  Netflix just fired the organizer of the trans employee walkout | The Verge Netflix doesn’t want to hear it anymore | The Verge It’s hard to believe Samsung’s new, matte The Frame is actually a TV | The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23946561 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve got a special episode of the show today – I was traveling last week, so Verge deputy editor Alex Heath and our new senior AI reporter Kylie Robison are filling in for me, with a very different kind of episode about AI. We talk a lot about AI in a broad sense on Decoder — it comes up in basically every single interview I do these days. But we don’t spend a ton of time on the day-to-day happenings of the AI industry itself. So we thought it would be a good idea to take a beat and have Alex and Kylie actually break down the modern AI boom as it exists today: The companies you need to know, the most important news of the last few months, and what it’s actually like to be fully immersed in this industry every single day. Links:  Google defends AI search results after they told us to put glue on pizza | The Verge Apple is putting ChatGPT in Siri for free later this year | The Verge AI will make money sooner than you’d think, says Cohere CEO Aidan Gomez | Decoder Humane is looking for a buyer after the AI Pin’s underwhelming debut | The Verge 2024 is a year of reckoning for AI | The Verge OpenAI researcher who resigned over safety concerns joins Anthropic | The Verge Hugging Face is sharing $10M worth of compute to beat big AI companies | The Verge The AI drama is heating up | Command Line Google and OpenAI are racing to rewire the internet | Command Line Elon Musk’s xAI raises $6 billion to fund its race against ChatGPT | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tubi is a free and very rapidly growing streaming TV platform — according to Nielsen, it had an average of a million viewers watching every minute in May 2024, beating out Disney Plus, Max, Peacock, and basically everything else, save Netflix and YouTube. All those streaming service price hikes are driving people to free options, and Tubi is right there to catch them. CEO Anjali Sud joins Decoder to explain why she thinks Tubi's model "could be" profitable, and how Tubi competes not only against the premium streamers, but also against the big competitors for viewers' time: TikTok and Youtube. Links:  As streaming becomes more expensive, Tubi cashes in on the value of free | Los Angeles Times Tubi’s new redesign wants to push you down the rabbit hole | The Verge Tubi Rabbit AI: ChatGPT can give you better movie recommendations | The Verge The future of streaming is free ad-supported TV and movies | The Verge It’s true: people like leaving their TVs on in the background | The Verge Stubios is the new name of Tubi’s fan-fueled studio program | The Verge Comcast has a Netflix, Peacock, and Apple TV Plus bundle coming | The Verge A Disney, Hulu, and Max streaming bundle is on the way | The Verge Transcript:  https://www.theverge.com/e/23942621 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Private equity is a simple concept — a PE firm uses some combination of money and debt to buy a company, then makes a profit — but the reality of what happens to the companies that get acquired is anything but. It's everywhere, and it's not going away. In this summer remix, we're talking with Brendan Ballou, author of Plunder: Private Equity’s Plan to Pillage America, about how we got here and what happens next.  Links:  Private equity bought out your doctor and bankrupted Toys“R”Us — here’s why that matters | The Verge Private equity and mismanagement: Here's what really killed Red Lobster | Fast Company Sony and Apollo send letter expressing interest in $26 billion Paramount buyout | NBC News Plunder: Private Equity’s Plan to Pillage America | Brendan Ballou Barbarians at the Gate: The Fall of RJR Nabisco | Bryan Borrough & John Helyar Barnes & Noble is going back to its indie roots to compete with Amazon | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Cohere is one of the buzziest AI startups around right now. It's not making consumer products; it's focused on the enterprise market and making AI products for big companies. And there's a huge tension there: up until recently, computers have been deterministic. If you give computers a certain input, you usually know exactly what output you’re going to get. There’s a logic to it. But if we all start talking to computers with human language and getting human language back, well, human language is messy. And that makes the entire process of knowing what to put in and what exactly we’re going to get out of our computers different than it ever has been before. Links:  Attention is all you need On the Dangers of Stochastic Parrots Introducing the AI Mirror Test, which very smart people keep failing | The Verge AI isn’t close to becoming sentient | The Conversation These are Microsoft’s Bing AI secret rules and why it says it’s named Sydney | The Verge ‘Godfather of AI’ quits Google with regrets and fears about his life’s work | The Verge Microsoft CTO Kevin Scott on Bing’s quest to beat Google | The Verge Top AI researchers and CEOs warn against ‘risk of extinction’ | The Verge Google Zero is here — now what? | The Verge Cara grew from 40k to 650k in a week because artists are fed up with Meta’s AI policies | TechCrunch How AI copyright lawsuits could make the whole industry go extinct | The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23937899 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The art of video game design is flourishing, but it feels like a really grim time to be in the business of making and distributing games. Huge global publishers and tiny indie studios alike are facing huge financial pressures, and it doesn’t seem to be letting up anytime soon. So where did this enormous pressure come from, if consumer interest is high and sales are great? Verge video game reporter Ash Parrish joins Decoder to explain. Links:  Global games market expected to grow to $189bn in 2024 | GamesIndustry.biz Why the video game industry is seeing so many layoffs | Polygon The tech industry’s layoffs and hiring freezes: all of the news | The Verge Fortnite made more than $9 billion in revenue in its first two years | The Verge Insomniac’s Spider-Man 2 Swings Past 10 Million Sold | IGN The future of Netflix games could look like reality TV | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Zoom CEO Eric Yuan — and let me tell you, this conversation is nothing like what I expected. It turns out Eric wants Zoom to be much, much more than just a videoconferencing platform. Zoom wants to take on Microsoft and Google and now has a big investment in AI – and Eric’s visions for what that AI will do are pretty wild. See, Eric really wants you to stop having to attend Zoom meetings yourself. You’ll hear him describe how he thinks one of the big benefits of AI at work will be letting us all create something he calls a “digital twin," essentially a deepfake of yourself that can go attend meetings on your behalf and even make decisions for you. I’ll just warn you: I tried to ask a bunch of the usual Decoder questions during this conversation, but once we got to digital twins going to Zoom meetings for people, well, I had a lot of followup questions.  Links:  Zoom gets its first major overhaul in 10 years, powered by generative AI | ZDNet An interview with Zoom CEO Eric Yuan | Stratechery / Ben Thompson Zoom is cutting about 150 jobs, or close to 2% of its workforce | CNBC Zoom meetings are about to get weirder thanks to the Vision Pro | The Verge Zoom Docs launches in 2024 with built-in AI collaboration features | The Verge Zoom rewrites its policies to make clear that your videos aren’t used to train AI tools | The Verge Zoom says its new AI tools aren’t stealing ownership of your content | The Verge Zoom adds “post-quantum” end-to-end encryption | Zoom Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23932774 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For nearly 20 years now, the web has been Google’s platform; we’ve all just lived on it. I think of Decoder as a show for people trying to build things, and a lot of people have built their things on that platform. For a lot of small businesses and content creators, that’s suddenly not stable anymore. The number one question I have for anyone building things on someone else’s platform is: What are you going to do when that platform changes the rules? Links:  How Google is killing independent sites like ours | HouseFresh HouseFresh has virtually disappeared from Google Search results. Now what? | HouseFresh Google Is Killing Retro Dodo & Other Independent Sites | Retro Dodo Google CEO Sundar Pichai on AI-powered search and the future of the web | The Verge Will A.I. Break the Internet? Or Save It? | The New York Times Google confirms the leaked Search documents are real |The Verge An Anonymous Source Shared Thousands of Leaked Google Search API Documents with Me; Everyone in SEO Should See Them | SparkToro Mountain Weekly News Telly Visions E-ride Hero That Fit Friend Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Joseph Cox, one of the best cybersecurity reporters around and a co-founder of the new media site 404 Media. Joseph has a new book coming out in June called Dark Wire: The Incredible True Story of the Largest Sting Operation Ever, and I can’t recommend it enough. It’s basically a caper, but with the FBI running a phone network. For real.  Joseph walks us through the fascinating world of underground criminal phone networks, and how secure messaging, a tech product beloved by drug traffickers, evolved from the days of BlackBerry Messenger to Signal. Along the way, the FBI got involved with its very own startup, ANOM, as part of one of the most effective trojan horse operations in the history of cybersecurity. Joseph’s book is a great read, but it also touches on a lot of things we talk about a lot here on Decoder. So this conversation was a fun one.  Links:  Dark Wire by Joseph Cox | Hachette Book Group How Vice became ‘a fucking clown show’ | The Verge Cyber Official Speaks Out, Reveals Mobile Network Attacks in US | 404 Media Revealed: The Country that Secretly Wiretapped the World for the FBI | 404 Media How Secure Phones for Criminals Are Sold on Instagram | Motherboard A Peek Inside the Phone Company Secretly Used in an FBI Honeypot | Motherboard The FBI secretly launched an encrypted messaging system for criminals | The Verge Canadian police have had master key to BlackBerry's encryption since 2010 | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Google CEO Sundar Pichai, who joined the show the day after the big Google I/O developer conference. Google’s focus during the conference was on how it’s building AI into virtually all of its products. If you’re a Decoder listener, you’ve heard me talk about this idea a lot over the past year: I call it “Google Zero,” and I’ve been asking a lot of web and media CEOs what would happen to their businesses if their Google traffic were to go to zero. In a world where AI powers search with overviews and summaries, that’s a real possibility. What then happens to the web?  I’ve talked to Sundar quite a bit over the past few years, and this was the most fired up I’ve ever seen him. I think you can really tell that there is a deep tension between the vision Google has for the future — where AI magically makes us smarter, more productive, more artistic — and the very real fears and anxieties creators and website owners are feeling right now about how search has changed and how AI might swallow the internet forever, and that he’s wrestling with that tension. Links:  Google and OpenAI are racing to rewire the internet — Command Line Google I/O 2024: everything announced — The Verge Google is redesigning its search engine, and it’s AI all the way down — The Verge Project Astra is the future of AI at Google — The Verge Did SEO experts ruin the internet or did Google? — The Verge YouTube is going to start cracking down on AI clones of musicians — The Verge AI is killing the old web, and the new web struggles to be born — The Verge How Google is killing independent sites like ours — HouseFresh Inside the First 'SEO Heist' of the AI Era — Business Insider Google’s Sundar Pichai talks Search, AI, and dancing with Microsoft — Decoder Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23922415 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Last week, TikTok filed a lawsuit against the US government claiming the divest-or-ban law is unconstitutional — a case it needs to win in order to keep operating under Bytedance’s ownership. There’s a lot of back and forth between the facts and the law here: Some of the legal claims are complex and sit in tension with a long history of prior attempts to regulate speech and the internet, while the simple facts of what TikTok has already promised to do around the world contradict some its arguments. Verge editors Sarah Jeong and Alex Heath join me to explain what it all means. Links:  TikTok and Bytedance v Merrick Garland (PDF) TikTok sues the US government over ban | The Verge Senate passes TikTok ban bill, sending it to President Biden’s desk | The Verge The legal challenges that lie ahead for TikTok — in both the US and China | The Verge Why the TikTok ban won’t solve the US’s online privacy problems. | Decoder  Biden signs TikTok ‘ban’ bill into law, starting the clock for ByteDance to divest it | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen has been at the top of my list of people I’ve wanted to talk to for the show since we first launched — he’s led Adobe for nearly 17 years now, but he doesn’t do too many wide-ranging interviews. I’ve always thought Adobe was an underappreciated company — its tools sit at the center of nearly every major creative workflow you can think of — and with generative AI poised to change the very nature of creative software, it seemed particularly important to talk with Shantanu now. Adobe sits right at the center of the whole web of tensions, especially as the company has evolved its business and business model over time. And now, AI really changes what it means to make and distribute creative work. Not many people are seeing revenue returns on it just yet and there are the fundamental philosophical challenges of adding AI to photo and video tools. What does it mean when a company like Adobe, which makes the tools so many people use to make their art, sees the creative process as a step in a marketing chain, instead of a goal in and of itself? Links:  How Adobe is managing the AI copyright dilemma, with general counsel Dana Rao  Adobe Launches Creative Cloud (2012) What was Photoshop like in 1994?  Photoshop’s Generative Fill tool turns vacation photos into nightmares - The Verge New York Daily News, Chicago Tribune, and others sue OpenAI and Microsoft - The Verge The FAIR Act: A New Right to Protect Artists in the Age of AI | Adobe Blog Adobe’s Firefly generative AI tools are now generally available - The Verge This Wacom AI debacle has certainly taken a turn. - The Verge Transcript:  https://www.theverge.com/e/23917997 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we’re going to talk about the smart home — one of the oldest, most important, and most challenging dreams in the history of the tech industry. The idea of your house responding to you and your family, and generally being as automated and as smart as your phone or your laptop, has inspired generations of technologists. But after decades of promises, it’s all still pretty messy. Because the big problem with the smart home has been blindingly obvious for a very long time: interoperability.  Yet there are some promising developments out there that might make it a little better. To help sort it all out, I invited Verge smart home reviewer Jen Tuohy, who is one of the most influential reporters on the smart home beat today. Jen and I break down how Matter, the open source standard, is trying to fix these issues, but there is still a lot of work to do.  Links:  Matter is now racing ahead, but the platforms are holding it back — The Verge 2023 in the smart home: Matter’s broken promises — The Verge Smart home hubs: what they are and why you need one — The Verge My smart kitchen: the good, the bad, and the future — The Verge How bad business broke the smart home — The Verge The smart home is finally getting out of your phone and into your home — The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Polestar CEO Thomas Ingenlath, whom I first interviewed on the show back in 2021. Those were heady days — especially for upstart EV companies like Polestar, which all seemed poised to capture what felt like infinite demand for electric cars. Now, in 2024, the market looks a lot different, and so does Polestar, which is no longer majority-owned by Volvo. Instead, Volvo is now a more independent sister company, and both Volvo and Polestar fall under Chinese parent company Geely.  You know I love a structure shuffle, so Thomas and I really got into it: what does it mean for Volvo to have stepped back, and how much can Polestar take from Geely’s various platforms while still remaining distinct from the other brands in the portfolio? We also talked about the upcoming Polestar 3 SUV and Polestar 4 crossover, and I asked Thomas what he thinks of the Cybertruck. Links:  Can Polestar design a new kind of car company? — Decoder The Polestar 3 isn’t out yet, and it’s already getting a big price cut — The Verge The Polestar 4 gets an official price ahead of its debut — The Verge Polestar makes the rear window obsolete with its new crossover coupe — The Verge Volvo and Polestar drift a little farther apart — The Verge Polestar gets a nearly $1 billion lifeline — The Verge Car-tech breakup fever is heating up — The Verge Polestar is working on its own smartphone to sync with its EVs — The Verge Polestar’s electric future looks high-performing, and promising — The Verge Electric car maker Polestar to cut around 450 jobs globally — Reuters Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23912151 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, Verge transportation editor Andy Hawkins and I are going to try and figure out Tesla. I said try — I did not say succeed. But we’re going to try. That’s because Tesla has been on a real rollercoaster these past two weeks, in terms of its stock price, its basic financials, and well, its vibes. If you’ve been following the company, you know that that gap between what the business is and how its valued has been getting bigger and bigger for years now – and lately, with Elon Musk saying he’s going all-in on autonomy and announcing a robotaxi event in August, it seems like we’re getting closer to a make or break moment, especially as competition in the broader EV market heats up.  Links: Tesla reaches deals in China on self-driving cars — NYT Elon Musk goes ‘absolutely hard core’ in another round of Tesla layoffs — The Verge Tesla’s Autopilot and Full Self-Driving linked to dozens of deaths — The Verge Elon Musk says Tesla will reveal its robotaxi on August 8th — The Verge A cheaper Tesla is back on the menu — The Verge Tesla’s profits sink as the company struggles with cooling demand — The Verge Tesla lays off ‘more than 10 percent’ of its workforce, loses top executives — The Verge Tesla recalls all 3,878 Cybertrucks over faulty accelerator pedal — The Verge Elon Musk says it’s “time to reorganize” Tesla — The Verge Elon Musk lost Democrats on Tesla when he needed them most — WSJ Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A lot has changed since the last time Ola was on Decoder. Back then, he said Mercedes would have an all-EV lineup by 2030 — a promise a whole lot of car companies, including Mercedes, have now had to soften or walk back. But he doesn't see that as a setback at all, and he and Mercedes are both still committed to phasing out gas in the long run. We also spent some time talking about what's happening both on the outside of cars — Mercedes' classic look and its EV look aren't necessarily quite in the same place — and on the inside of them, as infotainment becomes a huge point of competition and design. Links:  How Mercedes-Benz CEO Ola Källenius is refocusing for an electric future - The Verge Mercedes-Benz opens its first 400kW EV charging station in the US - The Verge Mercedes-Benz is the first German automaker to adopt Tesla’s EV charging connector - The Verge Is the metaverse going to suck? A conversation with Matthew Ball - The Verge The Mercedes G-Wagen, the ultimate off-road status symbol, goes electric - The Verge Mercedes workers file federal charges with NLRB to stop union busting - The Alabama Political Reporter The MBUX Hyperscreen - Mercedes-Benz USA Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23904592 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we’re talking about the brand-new TikTok ban — and how years of Congressional inaction on a federal privacy law helped lead us to this moment of apparent national panic about algorithmic social media. This is a thorny discussion, and to help break it all down, I invited Verge senior policy reporter Lauren Feiner on the show. Lauren has been closely covering efforts to ban TikTok for years now, and she’s also watched Congress fail to pass meaningful privacy regulation for even longer. We’ll go over how we got here, what this means for both TikTok and efforts to pass new privacy legislation, and what might happen next.  Links:  Biden signs TikTok ‘ban’ bill into law — The Verge TikTok ban: all the news on attempts to ban the video platform — The Verge Anyone want to buy TikTok? — Vergecast Congress takes on TikTok, privacy, and AI — Vergecast Tiktok vows to fight 'unconstitutional' US ban — BBC ‘Thunder Run’: Behind lawmakers’ secretive push to pass the TikTok bill — NYT On TikTok, resignation and frustration after potential ban of app — NYT Lawmakers unveil new bipartisan digital privacy bill after years of impasse — The Verge A real privacy law? House lawmakers are optimistic this time — The Verge Congress is trying to stop discriminatory algorithms again — The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Jason Citron, the co-founder and CEO of Discord, the gaming-focused voice and chat app. You might think Discord is just something Slack for gamers, but over time, it has become much more important than that. For a growing mix of mostly young, very online users steeped in gaming culture, fandom, and other niche communities, Discord is fast becoming the hub to their entire online lives. A lot of what we think of as internet culture is happening on Discord. In many ways Discord represents a significant shift away from what we now consider traditional social platforms. As you’ll hear Jason describe it, Discord is a place where you talk and hangout with your friends over shared common interests, whether that’s video games, the AI bot Midjourney, or maybe your favorite anime series. It is a very different kind of interface for the internet, but that comes with serious challenges, especially around child safety and moderation.  Links:  Discord opens up to games and apps embedded in its chat app — The Verge Discord is nuking Nintendo Switch emulator devs and their entire servers — The Verge Inside Discord’s reform movement for banned users — The Verge Discord ends deal talks with Microsoft — WSJ Discord cuts 17% of workers in latest tech layoffs — NYT Discord to start showing ads for gamers to boost revenue — WSJ Discord says it intentionally does not encrypt user messages — CNN How Discord became a social hub for young people — NYT ‘Problematic pockets’: How Discord became a home for extremists — WashPo Discord CEO Jason Citron on AI, Midjourney — Bloomberg Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23898955 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we're talking about Disney, the massive activist investor revolt it just fought off, and what happens next in the world of streaming. Because what happens to Disney really tells us a lot about what's happening in the entire world of entertainment. Earlier this month, Disney survived an attempted board takeover from businessman Nelson Peltz. While investors ultimately sided with Disney and CEO Bob Iger, the boardroom showdown made something very clear: Disney needs to figure out streaming and get its creative direction back on track.  To help me figure all this out, I brought on my friend Julia Alexander, who is VP of Strategy at Parrot Analytics, a Puck News contributor, and most importantly, a former Verge reporter. She's a leading expert on all things Disney, and I always learn something important about the state of the entertainment business when I talk to her.  Links:  The Story of Disney+ — Puck News ​​Disney’s CEO drama explained, with Julia Alexander — Decoder Is streaming just becoming cable again? Julia Alexander thinks so — Decoder Disney Fends Off Activist Investor for Second Time in 2 Years — NYT For Disney, streaming losses and TV’s decline are a one-two punch — NYT Disney’s ABC, ESPN weakness adds pressure to make streaming profitable — WSJ Disney reportedly wants to bring always-on channels to Disney Plus — The Verge The Disney Plus-Hulu merger is way more than a streaming bundle — The Verge Disney’s laying off 7,000 as streaming boom comes to an end — The Verge The last few years really scared Disney — Screen Rant Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

At the absolute most basic, Dropbox is cloud storage for your stuff — but that puts it at the nexus of a huge number of today’s biggest challenges in tech. As the company that helps you organize your stuff in the cloud itself goes all remote, how do we even deal with the concept of “your stuff?” Today I’m talking with Dropbox CEO Drew Houston about those big picture ideas — and why he thinks generative AI really will be transformative for everyone eventually, even if it isn’t yet now. Links:  Dropbox AI and Dash make it easier to find your files from all over the web | The Verge Kids who grew up with search engines could change STEM forever | The Verge No, Dropbox's cafeteria didn't get a Michelin star | VentureBeat It's official: San Francisco's office vacancy rate just set a record | San Francisco Examiner Jeff Bezos: This is the 'smartest thing we ever did' at Amazon | CNBC Dropbox is laying off 500 people and pivoting to AI | The Verge Congress bans staff use of Microsoft's AI Copilot | Axios Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23892647 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we’re talking about Vice, the media company: Where it came from, what it did, and, ultimately, why it collapsed into a much smaller, sadder version of itself.  This is a lousy time for digital media, and it’s hard to make a profit from putting words on the internet right now. So when Verge senior reporter Liz Lopatto went to go report on what happened, she and I both assumed Vice had been done in by the brutal economics of digital advertising on the web. But the Vice story is more than that — in the word of one executive that talked to Liz, it was a “fucking clown show.”  Links: How Vice became 'a fucking clown show' — The Verge Vice is abandoning Vice.com and laying off hundreds — The Verge Vice, decayed digital colossus, files for bankruptcy — NYT Vice Is Basically Dead — New York Magazine Shane Smith and the Final Collapse of Vice News — The Hollywood Reporter At Vice, cutting-edge media and allegations of old-school sexual harassment — NYT HBO cancels ‘Vice News Tonight,’ severing relationship with Vice Media — CNN Shane Smith has a secret multimillion-dollar Vice deal — New York Magazine Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Cloudflare is an infrastructure provider basically protecting more than 20% of the entire web from bad actors. When everything is going well, you don't even have to know it exists. It's one of the only defenses — sometimes the only defense — standing between websites and the people who want to take them down. Protecting free speech on the internet around the world, across war zones and hundreds of different kinds of government, is no easy feat. That puts the company, and CEO Matthew Prince, right at the heart of some of Decoder's biggest challenges and themes.  Links:  A Cloudflare outage broke large swathes of the internet | The Verge Why security company Cloudflare is protecting U.S. election sites for free | Fast Company The Daily Stormer just lost the most important company defending it | The Verge (2017) Cloudflare to revoke 8chan’s service, opening the fringe website up for DDoS attacks | The Verge (2019) Cloudflare blocks Kiwi Farms due to an ‘immediate threat to human life’ | The Verge Why Cloudflare Let an Extremist Stronghold Burn | Wired Cloudflare CEO Matthew Prince interview on Ukraine cybersecurity | Semafor 3 ways the ‘splinternet’ is damaging society | MIT Sloan Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23885440 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, and welcome to Decoder. This is David Pierce, editor-at-large at The Verge and co-host of The Vergecast, subbing in for Nilay, who’s out on vacation. Regular Decoder programming returns next week. In the meantime, we have an exciting episode for you today all about video game emulation, which, as it turns out, is a whole lot more complicated than it seems.  Gaming emulation made headlines recently because one of the most widely used programs for emulating the Nintendo Switch, a platform called Yuzu, was effectively sued out of existence. There’s a whole lot going on here, from the history of game emulation to the copyright precedents of emulators to how the threat of game piracy still looms large in the industry. To break down this topic, I brought Verge Senior Editor and resident emulation expert Sean Hollister on the show. Let’s get into it.  Links: Nintendo sues Switch emulator Yuzu — The Verge Nintendo Switch emulator Yuzu will fold and pay $2.4M to settle its lawsuit — The Verge Steve Jobs announcing a PlayStation emulator for the Mac — YouTube Fans freak out as Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom leaks two weeks early — Kotaku Tears of the Kingdom Was Pirated 1 Million Times, Nintendo Claims — Kotaku The solid legal theory behind Nintendo’s new emulator takedown effort — Ars Technica How Nintendo’s destruction of Yuzu is rocking the emulator world — The Verge How strong is Nintendo’s legal case against Switch-emulator Yuzu? — Ars Technica Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Intuit Mailchimp CEO Rania Succar, who took over as CEO in 2022 after a pretty rough patch in the company’s history. In 2021, Intuit acquired the company, and the very next year, co-founder Ben Chestnut stepped down after telling employees that he thought introducing themselves with pronouns in meetings did more harm than good. After that, Rania took over. This is a pretty huge culture change, especially as Mailchimp became more integrated with Intuit. It was also a big challenge for a new leader who came in from the outside. You’ll hear us talk about that transition a lot. Rania and I also got into the weeds of making decisions, which is very Decoder. And, of course, we had to talk about generative AI, which is a big part of the Mailchimp road map. This was a really fun conversation with some honestly scary ideas in it — and it’s all about email. Links: Mailchimp employees have complained about inequality for years — The Verge Mailchimp Employees Are Fuming Over $12 Billion Deal — Business Insider Did this email cost Mailchimp's billionaire CEO his job? — Platformer Mailchimp is shutting down TinyLetter — The Verge TinyLetter, in memoriam — The Verge Did Mailchimp censor J.D. Vance? — Mother Jones Hackers breached Mailchimp to phish cryptocurrency wallets — The Verge Boring, mundane businesses have an exhilarating, viral life on TikTok — The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23879556 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone it’s Nilay – I’m on vacation this week, so the Decoder team is taking a short break. We’ll be back next week with both the interview and the new explainer episodes. To tide you over until Monday, we have a bonus episode from our friends at Vox Media and Eater’s Gastropod about an incredible patent battle in the world of pizza.  I’m serious: One of the biggest fights in the pizza industry took place in US court in the ‘90s — an intellectual property dispute about stuffed crust pizza between Pizza Hut and patent holder Anthony “The Big Cheese” Mongiello.  So much of what we talk about on Decoder comes down to IP lawsuits like copyright or patent disputes, and how judges decide those cases and where the law ends up can steer the course of history. And that’s true whether we’re talking about a line of code, the distribution method of an MP3, or, yes, even stuffed crust pizza.  Links:  Can You Patent a Pizza? — Gastropod Ivana and Donald Trump Pizza Hut Commercial — YouTube The Next Big Thing in Pizza? Try 'Stuffed Crust' — NYT Who Created the Stuffed Crust Pizza? It's Complicated. — Eater Method of making a pizza — Google Patents Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Jay Graber, the CEO of Bluesky Social, which is a decentralized competitor to Meta’s Threads, Mastodon, and X. Bluesky actually started inside of what was then known as Twitter — it was a project from then-CEO Jack Dorsey, who spent his days wandering the earth and saying things like Twitter should be a protocol and not a company. Bluesky was supposed to be that protocol, but Jack spun it out of Twitter in 2021, just before Elon Musk bought the company and renamed it X. Bluesky is now an independent company with a few dozen employees, and it finds itself in the middle of one of the most chaotic moments in the history of social media. There are a lot of companies and ideas competing for space on the post-Twitter internet, and Jay makes a convincing argument that decentralization — the idea that you should be able to take your username and following to different servers as you wish — is the future. Links:  Twitter is funding research into a decentralized version of its platform — The Verge Bluesky built a decentralized protocol for Twitter — and is working on an app that uses it — The Verge The fediverse, explained — The Verge Bluesky showed everyone’s ass — The Verge Can ActivityPub save the internet? — The Verge The ‘queer.af’ Mastodon instance disappeared because of the Taliban — The Verge Usage Of Elon Musk’s X Dropped 30% In The Last Year, Study Suggests — Forbes Bluesky snags former Twitter/X Trust & Safety exec cut by Musk — TechCrunch Bluesky and Mastodon users are having a fight that could shape the next generation of social media — TechCrunch Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech — Mike Masnick Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23872913 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Both the EU and US have spent the past decade looking at Big Tech and saying, "someone should do something!" In the US, lawmakers are still basically shouting that. But in the EU, regulators did something. The Digital Markets Act was proposed in 2020, signed into law in 2022, and went into effect this month. It's already having an effect on some of the biggest companies in tech, including Apple, Google, and Microsoft. In theory it's a landmark law that will change the way these companies compete, and how their products operate, for years to come. How did we get here, what does the law actually say, and will it work half as well in practice as it does on paper? Verge reporter Jon Porter comes on Decoder to help me break it down.  Links:  The EU's new competition rules are going live — here's how tech giants are responding | The Verge Apple hit with a nearly $2 billion fine following Spotify complaint | The Verge Experts fear the Digital Markets Act won’t address tech monopolies | The Verge Dirty tricks or small wins: developers are skeptical of Apple's App Store rules | The Verge Google Search, WhatsApp, and TikTok on list of 22 services targeted by EU’s tough new DMA | The Verge The EU’s Digital Services Act is now in effect: here’s what that means | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve got a fun one today — I talked to Figma CEO Dylan Field in front of a live audience at South by Southwest in Austin, Texas. And we got into it – we talked about everything from design, to software distribution, to the future of the web, and, of course, AI.  Figma is an fascinating company – the Figma design tool is used by designers at basically every company you can think of. And importantly, it runs on the web. It became such a big deal that Adobe tried to buy it out in 2022 for $20 billion dollars, a deal that only just recently fell through because of regulatory concerns.  So Dylan and I talked a lot about where Figma is now as an independent company, how Figma is structured, where it’s going, and how Dylan’s decisionmaking has changed since the last time he was on the show in 2022. Links: Why Figma is selling to Adobe for $20 billion, with CEO Dylan Field — Decoder Adobe abandons $20 billion acquisition of Figma — The Verge Adobe’s Dana Rao on AI, copyright, and the failed Figma deal — Decoder Figma’s CEO on life after the company’s failed sale to Adobe — Command Line Amazon restricts self-publishing due to AI concerns — The Guardian Wix’s new AI chatbot builds websites in seconds based on prompts — The Verge Apple is finally allowing full versions of Chrome and Firefox on the iPhone — The Verge What Is Solarpunk? A Guide to the Environmental Art Movement. — Built In Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23866201 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you’ve been listening to Decoder or the Vergecast for a while, you know that I am obsessed with Google Search, the web, and how both of those things might change in the age of AI. But to really understand how something might change, you have to step back and understand what it is right now.  So today I’m talking with Verge platforms reporter Mia Sato about Google Search, the industries it’s created, and more importantly, how relentless search engine optimization, or SEO, has utterly changed the web in its image. Mia and I really dug into this to explain why search results are so terrible now, what Google is trying to do about it, and why this is such an important issue for the future of the internet. Links:  How Google is killing independent sites like ours — HouseFresh How Google perfected the web — The Verge The people who ruined the internet — The Verge A storefront for robots — The Verge The end of the Googleverse — The Verge The unsettling scourge of obituary spam — The Verge What happens when Google Search doesn’t have the answers? — The Verge The AI takeover of Google Search starts now — The Verge AI is killing the old web, and the new web struggles to be born — The Verge Google is starting to squash more spam and AI in search results — The Verge Ethics Statement — The Verge Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Kyle Chayka, a staff writer for The New Yorker, a regular contributor to The Verge, and author of the new book Filterworld: How Algorithms Flattened Culture. Kyle has been writing for years now about how the culture of big social media platforms bleeds into real life, first affecting how things look, and now shaping how and what culture is created and the mechanisms by which that culture spreads all around the world.  If you’ve been listening to Decoder, this is all going to sound very familiar. The core thesis of Kyle’s book — that algorithmic recommendations make everything feel the same — hits at an idea that we’ve talked about countless times on the show: that how content is distributed shapes what content is made. So I was really excited to sit down with Kyle and dig into Filterworld and his thoughts on how this happened and what we might be able to do about it. Links:  Filterworld: How Algorithms Flattened Culture — Kyle Chayka Welcome to AirSpace — The Verge The Stanley water bottle craze, explained — Vox TikTok and the vibes revival — The New Yorker Why the internet isn’t fun anymore — The New Yorker The age of algorithmic anxiety — The New Yorker Lo-fi beats to quarantine to are booming on YouTube — The Verge Taylor Swift has encouraged her fans' numerology habit yet again — AV Club How fandom built the internet as we know it, with Kaitlyn Tiffany — Decoder Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23858379 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our Thursday episodes are all about big topics in the news, and this week we’re wrapping up our short series on one of the biggest topics of all: generative AI. In our last couple episodes, we talked a lot about some of the biggest, most complicated legal and policy questions surrounding the modern AI industry, including copyright lawsuits and deepfake legislation. But we wanted to end on a more personal note: How is this technology making people feel, and in particular how is it affecting how people communicate and connect? Verge reporter Miya David has covered AI chatbots — specifically AI romance bots — quite a bit, so we invited her onto the show to talk about how generative AI is finding its way into dating. We not only discussed how this technology is affecting dating apps and human relationships, but also how the boom in AI chatbot sophistication is laying the groundwork for a generation of people who might form meaningful relationships with so-called AI companions. Links:  Speak, Memory — The Verge A conversation with Bing’s chatbot left me deeply unsettled — NYT Google suspends engineer who claims its AI is sentient — The Verge The law of AI girlfriends — The Verge Replika’s new AI therapy app tries to bring you to a zen island — The Verge Replika’s new AI app is like Tinder but with sexy chatbots — Gizmodo Don’t date robots; their privacy policies are terrible — The Verge AI is shaking up online dating with chatbots that are ‘flirty but not too flirty’ — CNBC Loneliness and suicide mitigation for students using GPT3-enabled chatbots — Nature Virtual valentine: People are turning to AI in search of emotional connections — CBS Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23856679 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On this special episode of Decoder, science educator and YouTuber Hank Green is guest hosting. And the guest? It’s Nilay Patel, who sat down with Hank to discuss building The Verge, the state of media, and the future of the web. Also: whether the fediverse is worth investing in, and how social platforms’ control of distribution has shaped the internet. In the words of Hank: “Nilay has got some weird ideas about the internet. For example, that he’s going to revolutionize the media through blog posts. He keeps saying it, but what the hell does he mean? While I was busy building my business on other people’s platforms, Nilay has built something very rare in the year 2024: a website that publishes content and isn’t behind a paywall yet still makes money. How does he do it? How does he make decisions? How is The Verge structured? The tables have turned.” Links: Why Hank Green can’t quit YouTube for TikTok — Decoder Platformer’s Casey Newton on surviving the great media collapse and what comes next — Decoder Just buy this Brother laser printer everyone has, it’s fine — The Verge Sports Illustrated Published Articles by Fake, AI-Generated Writers — Futurism The fediverse, explained — The Verge Can ActivityPub save the internet? — The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23851875 The Vergecast and Decoder are live at SXSW this weekend, March 8th and 9th. SXSW attendees can see both shows live on the official Vox Media Podcast Stage at the JW Marriott, presented by Atlassian. Learn more at voxmedia.com/live. Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our new Thursday episodes of Decoder are all about deep dives into big topics in the news, and this week we’re continuing our mini-series on one of the biggest topics of all: generative AI. Last week, we took a look at the wave of copyright lawsuits that might eventually grind this whole industry to a halt. Those are basically a coin flip — and the outcomes are off in the distance, as those cases wind their way through the legal system.  A bigger problem right now is that AI systems are really good at making just believable enough fake images and audio — and with tools like OpenAI’s new Sora, maybe video soon, too. And of course, it’s once again a presidential election year here in the US. So today, Verge policy editor Adi Robertson joins the show to discuss how AI might supercharge disinformation and lies in an election that’s already as contentious as any in our lifetimes — and what might be done about it. Links:  How the Mueller report indicts social networks Twitter permanently bans Trump Meta allows Trump back on Facebook and Instagram No Fakes Act wants to protect actors and singers from unauthorized AI replicas White House calls for legislation to stop Taylor Swift AI fakes Watermarks aren’t the silver bullet for AI misinformation AI Drake just set an impossible legal trap for Google Barack Obama on AI, free speech, and the future of the internet Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Rahul Purini, the president of Crunchyroll, a streaming service focused entirely on anime — and really, the biggest anime service still going. Rahul has a long history with anime: he spent more than seven years at Funimation, a company that started in the 90s to distribute Dragon Ball Z to US audiences, before getting the top job at Crunchyroll. Anime might seem like niche content, but it’s not nearly as niche as you might think – our colleagues over at Polygon just ran a huge survey of anime viewers and found that 42% of Gen Z and 25% of millennials watch anime regularly. And Crunchyroll is growing with that audience — like most entertainment providers, the service absolutely exploded during the pandemic, going from 5 million paying subscribers in 2021 to more than 13 million as of last month.  But interestingly Rahul says Crunchyroll’s growth isn’t being driven by more and more people watching anime, but more and more anime fans — especially those watching pirated content — choosing to pay for it. Links:  Anime is huge, and we finally have numbers to prove it — Polygon Funimation is shutting down — and taking your digital library with it — The Verge Sony completes acquisition of Crunchyroll from AT&T — The Verge Funimation’s anime library is moving over to Crunchyroll — The Verge Crunchyroll now has more than 13 Million subscribers — Cord Cutters News Crunchyroll's CEO Colin Decker leaves company; Rahul Purini becomes new president — Anime News Network PlayStation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks — The Verge Sony’s Crunchyroll launches free 24-hour streaming channel — Variety Crunchyroll is adding mobile games to its subscription — The Verge How Is Funimation producing so many simuldubs? — Anime News Network Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23845221 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Decoder team is off this week. We’ll be back next week with both the interview and the new explainer episodes; we’re really excited about what’s on the schedule here.  In the meantime, I thought you all might enjoy a conversation I had with Kara Swisher, the Wall Street Journal’s Joanna Stern and Bloomberg’s Mark Gurman about the Apple Vision Pro. All of us have been covering Apple for a very long time, and we had a lot of fun swapping impressions, talking strategy, and sharing what we liked, and didn’t like, about Apple’s $3,500 headset.  Links:  Apple Vision Pro review: magic, until it’s not — The Verge The shine comes off the Vision Pro — The Verge Everything we know about Apple’s Vision Pro — The Verge Why some of Apple’s biggest fans are returning their Vision Pros — Bloomberg Apple’s Vision Pro Is an iPad killer, but not anytime soon — Bloomberg I worked, cooked and even skied with the new Apple Vision Pro — WSJ Vision Pro review: 24 hours in Apple’s mixed-reality headset — WSJ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our new Thursday episodes are all about deep dives into big topics in the news, and for the next few weeks we’re going to stay focused on one of the biggest topics of all: generative AI. There’s a lot going on in the world of generative AI, but maybe the biggest is the increasing number of copyright lawsuits being filed against AI companies like OpenAI and StabilityAI. So for this episode, we’re going to talk about those cases, and the main defense the AI companies are relying on: an idea called fair use. To help explain this mess, I talked with Sarah Jeong. Sarah is a former lawyer and a features editor here at The Verge, and she is also one of my very favorite people to talk to about copyright. I promise you we didn’t get totally off the rails nerding out about it, but we went a little off the rails. The first thing we had to figure out was: How big a deal are these AI copyright suits? Links:  The New York Times sues OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement --- The Verge The scary truth about AI copyright is nobody knows what will happen next — The Verge How copyright lawsuits could kill OpenAI — Vox How Adobe is managing the AI copyright dilemma, with general counsel Dana Rao --- The Verge Generative AI Has a visual plagiarism problem - IEEE Spectrum George Carlin estate sues creators of AI-generated comedy special — THR AI-Generated Taylor Swift porn went viral on Twitter. Here's how it got there — 404 Media AI copyright lawsuit hinges on the legal concept of ‘fair use’ — The Washington Post Intellectual property experts discuss fair use in the age of AI — Harvard Law School OpenAI says it’s “impossible” to create useful AI models without copyrighted material — Ars Technica Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Jonathan Kanter, the Assistant Attorney General in charge of the Antitrust Division at the Department of Justice. Alongside FTC chair Lina Khan, Jonathan is one of the most prominent figures in the big shift happening in competition and antitrust in the United States. This is a fun episode: we taped this conversation live on stage at the Digital Content Next conference in Charleston, South Carolina a few days ago, so you’ll hear the audience, which was a group of fancy media company executives.  You’ll also hear me joke about Google a few times; fancy media execs are very interested in the cases the DOJ has brought against Google for monopolizing search and advertising tech — and Jonathan was very good at not commenting about pending litigation. But he did have a lot to say about the state of tech regulation, he and Khan’s track record so far, and why he thinks the concepts they’re pushing forward are more accessible than they’ve ever been. Links:  The top Biden lawyer with his sights on Apple and Google — Politico Judge blocks a merger of Penguin Random House and Simon & Schuster — NYT FTC’s Khan and DOJ’s Kanter beat back deals at fastest clip in decades — Bloomberg Google will face another antitrust trial September 9th, this time over ad tech — The Verge In the Google antitrust trial, defaults are everything and nobody likes Bing — The Verge Google Search, Chrome, and Android are all changing thanks to EU antitrust law — The Verge Aggregation Theory — Stratechery Adobe explains why it abandoned the Figma deal — The Verge How the EU’s DMA is changing Big Tech — The Verge Epic Games CEO calls out Apple’s DMA rules as ‘malicious compliance’ — TechCrunch Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23831914 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re very excited for today’s episode, because from now on we’ll be delivering you two Decoders every week. On Monday’s we’ll have our classic interviews with CEOs and other high-profile guests. But our new shorter Thursday episode – like today’s – will explain big topics in the news with Verge reporters, experts, and other friends of the show.  The big idea we’re going to jump into today does in fact have a lot of problems: electric vehicle adoption in the US. We invited Verge Transportation Editor Andy Hawkins, who’s been covering the EV transition for years, to walk us through what’s happening.  Late last year, Andy wrote a fantastic article called, “The EV Transition trips over its own cord.” It was all about the kind of paradox of the EV market right now: The momentum for electric cars in America feels like it’s started to hit serious snags, even though more people than ever before are going fully electric. The stakes are high, and there’s a lot going on. Let’s get into it.  Links:  The EV transition trips over its own cord — The Verge We’re down to just a handful of EVs that qualify for the full US tax credit — The Verge Electric cars were having issues. Then things got political — WSJ Tesla is becoming a partisan brand, says survey — Eletrek 16 Republican governors urge Biden EPA to roll back proposed electric vehicle standards — USA Today Slow rollout of national charging system could hinder EV adoption — NYT Want to stare into the Republican soul in 2023? — Slate Biden vetoes Republican measure to block electric vehicle charging stations — NYT The Biden administration is pumping more money into EV charging infrastructure — The Verge GM should just bring back the Chevy Volt — The Verge Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Casey Newton, the founder and editor of the Platformer newsletter and co-host of the Hard Fork podcast. Casey is also a former editor here at The Verge and was my co-host at the Code Conference last year. Most importantly, Casey and I are also very close friends, so this episode is a little looser than usual.  I wanted to talk to Casey for a few reasons. One, the media industry overall is falling apart, with huge layoffs at almost every media organization you can think of happening weekly, but small newsletters seem to be a bright spot. So I wanted to talk about how Platformer started, how Casey got it to where it is, and how much farther he thinks it can go. And then, I wanted to talk about Substack. It’s the newsletter platform Paltformer used to call its home, but content moderation problems — including its decision to allow Nazis to monetize on the platform — have pushed away a number of its customers, including Platformer.  This episode goes deep, but it’s fun — Casey is just one of my favorite people, and he is not shy about saying what he thinks. Links:  Can Substack CEO Chris Best build a new model for journalism? — The Verge Substack launches its Twitter-like Notes — The Verge Substack Has a Nazi Problem — The Atlantic Substack says it will remove Nazi publications from the platform --- Platformer Substack keeps the Nazis, loses Platformer — The Verge  Why Platformer is leaving Substack — Platformer The Messenger to close after less than a year — The New York Times Do countries with better-funded public media also have healthier democracies? — Nieman Lab AI is killing the old web, and the new web struggles to be born — The Verge The Biden deepfake robocall Is only the beginning — WIRED Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23823565 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Senator Brian Schatz, of Hawaii. We joke that Decoder is ultimately a show about org charts, but there’s a lot of truth to it. We talked about the separate offices he has to balance against each other, and the concessions he has to make to work within the Senate structure. We also talked a lot about two of the biggest issues in tech regulation today. One is Europe, which is doing a lot of regulation while the US does almost none. How does a senator think about the U.S. all but abdicating that space? The other is one of the few places the US is trying to take action right now: children’s online safety. Schatz is involved with two pieces of child safety legislation, the Kids Online Safety Act and the Protecting Kids on Social Media Act, that could fundamentally reshape online life for teens and children across the country. But the big stumbling block for passing any laws about content moderation is, of course, the First Amendment. Links:  Strict Scrutiny — LII / Legal Information Institute The Uniquely American Future of US Authoritarianism — WIRED How the EU’s DMA is changing Big Tech: all of the news and updates — The Verge AI Labeling Act of 2023 (S. 2691) — GovTrack.us Mark Zuckerberg testimony: senators seem really confused about Facebook — Vox Big Tech and the Online Child Sexual Exploitation Crisis — Senate Judiciary Committee AI tools will make it easy to create fake porn of just about anybody — The Verge They thought loved ones were calling for help. It was an AI scam — The Washington Post. Protecting Kids on Social Media Act (S, 1291) — GovTrack.us Kids Online Safety Act (S. 1409) — GovTrack.us Kids Online Safety Shouldn’t Require Massive Online Censorship and Surveillance — EFF TikTok ban: all the news on attempts to ban the video platform — The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23818699 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Representative Ro Khanna, a Democrat from California. He’s been in Congress for eight years now, representing California’s 17th District, which is arguably the highest-tech district in the entire country. You’ll hear him say a couple of times that there’s $10 trillion of tech market value in his district, and that’s not an exaggeration: Apple, Intel, and Nvidia are all headquartered in his district, along with important new AI firms like Anthropic and OpenAI.  I wanted to know how Khanna thinks about representing those companies but also the regular people in his district; the last time I spoke to him, in 2018, he reminded me that he’s got plenty of teachers and firefighters to represent as well. But the politics of tech have changed a lot in these past few years — and things are only going to get both more complicated and more tense as Trump and Biden head into what will obviously be a contentious and bitter presidential election. Links:  Democrats must not repeat the mistakes of globalization California bill to ban driverless autonomous trucks goes to Newsom's desk In labor snub, California governor vetoes bill that would have limited self-driving trucks A lawyer used ChatGPT and now has to answer for its ‘bogus’ citations Barack Obama on AI, free speech, and the future of the internet Music streaming platforms must pay artists more, says EU Sideloading and other changes are coming to iOS in the EU soon Clock running out on antitrust bill targeting big tech Silicon Valley’s Rep. Ro Khanna talks Congress’ plans to regulate Big Tech Trump pushing Microsoft to buy TikTok was ‘strangest thing I’ve ever worked on,’ says Satya Nadella Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23810838 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I'm talking to Dana Rao, who is General Counsel and Chief Trust Officer at Adobe. Now, if you're a longtime Decoder listener, you know that I have always been fascinated with Adobe, which I think the tech press largely undercovers. If you're interested in how creativity happens, you're kind of necessarily interested in what Adobe's up to. And it is fascinating to consider how Dana's job as Adobe's top lawyer is really at the center of the company's future.  The copyright issues with generative AI are so unknown and unfolding so fast that they will necessarily shape what kind of products Adobe can even make in the future, and what people can make with those products. The company also just tried and failed to buy the popular upstart design company Figma, a potentially $20 billion deal that was shut down over antitrust concerns in the European Union. So Dana and I had a lot to talk about. Links:  Adobe abandons $20 billion acquisition of Figma Adobe explains why it abandoned the Figma deal Why Figma is selling to Adobe for $20 billion, with CEO Dylan Field Figma’s CEO laments demise of $20 billion deal with Adobe Adobe proposes anti-impersonation law Adobe’s Dana Rao doesn’t want you to get duped by A The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft Adobe’s Photoshop on the web launch includes its popular desktop AI tools Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23791239 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

2023 will go down as the year that Elon Musk killed Twitter. First he did it in a big way, by buying the company, firing most of the employees, and destabilizing the platform; then he did it in a small, but important, symbolic way, by renaming the company X and trying to make a full break with what came before. So now that the story of the company named Twitter is officially over, it felt important to stop and ask: What was Twitter, anyway, and why were so many powerful people obsessed with it for so long? In this special episode, I sat down with Marty Baron, former executive editor of The Washington Post, and Zoe Schiffer, managing editor of Platform and author of Extremely Hardcore: Inside Elon Musk’s Twitter. We discussed how two of Twitter’s most dedicated power users – Donald Trump and Elon Musk — were addicted to the platform, defined it, changed it, broke it, and then put it to rest. Links:  The year Twitter died: a special series from The Verge Extremely softcore Inside Elon Musk's “extremely hardcore” Twitter How Twitter broke the news Trump vs. Twitter: The president takes on social media moderation Martin Baron recounts leading The Washington Post during the Trump era Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ryan Petersen is the founder and CEO of Flexport, which makes software to optimize shipping everything from huge containers to ecommerce deliveries. It’s a fascinating company; we had Ryan on to explain it last year. Right around the first time we spoke, Ryan handed off the CEO role to 20-year Amazon veteran Dave Clark. Then, barely a year later, Dave got fired, and Ryan returned after CEO. I always joke that Decoder is a show about org charts… so why did Ryan make and then unmake the biggest org chart decision there is?  Links:  Can software simplify the supply chain? Ryan Petersen thinks so - The Verge Amazon consumer chief Dave Clark to join Flexport as its new CEO Flexport CEO Dave Clark resigns from logistics startup after one year in the role Flexport founder publicly slams his handpicked successor for hiring spree, rescinds offers Ousted Flexport CEO Dave Clark strikes back The real story behind a tech founder's 'tweetstorm that saves Christmas' Panama Canal has gotten so dry and backed up after brutal drought that shippers are paying up to $4m to jump the queue When Shipping Containers Sink in the Drink | The New Yorker Transcript:  https://www.theverge.com/e/23770977 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The US Digital Service has a fascinating structure: it comprises nearly 250 people, all of whom serve two-year stints developing apps, improving websites, and streamlining government services. You could call USDS the product and design consultancy for the rest of the government. The Obama administration launched the USDS in 2014, after the disastrous rollout of healthcare.gov and the tech sprint that saved it. USDS administrator Mina Hsiang explains to Decoder how it all works, and what she hopes it can do next. Links:  Here’s Why Healthcare.gov Broke Down (2013) Obamacare's 'tech surge' adds manpower to an already-bloated project (2013) Decoder: Barack Obama on AI, free speech, and the future of the internet Jeff Bezos Confirmed the "Question Mark Method" A comprehensive list of 2023 tech layoffs Tech to Gov U.S. Digital Corps Presidential Innovation Fellows AI.gov United States Digital Service Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23761681 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

IBM made some announcements this week about its plans for the next ten years of quantum computing: there are new chips, new computers, and new APIs. Quantum computers could in theory entirely revolutionize the way we think of computers… if, that is, someone can build one that’s actually useful. Jerry Chow, director of quantum systems at IBM, explains to Decoder just how close the field is to actual utility.   Links:  What is a Qubit? | Microsoft Azure IBM Quantum Summit 2023 The Wired Guide to Quantum Computing IBM Makes Quantum Computing Available on IBM Cloud to Accelerate Innovation (2016) Multiple Patterning - Semiconductor Engineering IBM Quantum Roadmap (2023) That viral LK-99 ‘superconductor’ isn’t a superconductor after all - The Verge NIST to Standardize Encryption Algorithms That Can Resist Attack by Quantum Computers Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23752312 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I’m talking with Avishai Abrahami, the CEO of Wix. You might know Wix as a website builder. It’s a competitor to WordPress and Squarespace. Tons of sites across the web run on Wix. But the web is changing rapidly, and Wix’s business today is less about web publishing, and more about providing software to help business owners run their entire companies. It’s fascinating, and Avishai has built a fascinating structure inside of Wix to make all that happen.   Wix is also an Israeli company. Avishai joined from the company’s headquarters in Tel Aviv. And I’ll just tell you right up front that we talked about Israel’s war with Hamas and its impact on the company. And that this conversation was not always comfortable. But the main theme of our conversation was, of course, the future of the web, especially a web that seems destined to be overrun by cheap AI-generated SEO spam. Links:  Doom runs on Excel Wix will let you build an entire website using only AI prompts Wix.com Launches Wix ADI and Delivers the Future of website creation YouTube is going to start cracking down on AI clones of musicians The people who ruined the internet The restaurant nearest Google OpenAI can’t tell if something was written by AI after all AI is killing the old web, and the new web struggles to be born Squarespace CEO Anthony Casalena on why anyone makes a website in 2023 What will changing Section 230 mean for the internet? Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23742026 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What actually happened at OpenAI in the last three days? Decoder host and Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel talks with Verge editors Alex Heath and David Pierce to break it down and try to work out what's next. Further reading: Sam Altman fired as CEO of OpenAI OpenAI’s new CEO is Twitch co-founder Emmett Shear OpenAI board in discussions with Sam Altman to return as CEO Emmett Shear named new CEO of OpenAI by board Microsoft hires former OpenAI CEO Sam Altman Hundreds of OpenAI employees threaten to resign and join Microsoft Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO We’re doing a survey on how people use The Verge (and what they’d want from a Verge subscription). If you’re interested in helping us out, you can fill out the survey right here: http://theverge.com/survey Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Liam James, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. It was edited by Andru Marino.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Jim Rowan, the CEO of Volvo Cars. Now, Jim’s only been at Volvo for a short time. He took over in 2022 after a decades-long career in the consumer electronics industry. Before Volvo, his two longest stints were at BlackBerry, whose QNX software is used in tons of cars, and then at Dyson, which once tried and failed to make an electric car. Jim and I talked a lot about how that unique experience has influenced how he thinks about the transformational changes happening in the world of cars. For Volvo, the stakes are high. The company has pledged to be all-electric by the end of the decade, and Jim is also making some very different bets on software and revenue than the rest of the car industry. Jim’s view is that automakers are undergoing three major shifts all at once: electrification, autonomy, and direct-to-consumer sales. With Volvo, Jim is trying to steer the ship through these changes and come out an EV-only carmaker on the other end. Links: Volvo plans to sell only electric cars by 2030 Volvo’s EX90 is a powerful computer that also happens to be an impeccably designed EV Can Polestar design a new kind of car company? The EV transition trips over its own cord Volvo’s upcoming EVs join the Tesla Supercharger bandwagon Future Volvo cars to run on Volvo operating system Audi and Volvo will use Android as the operating system in upcoming cars Volvo’s first EV will run native Android The rest of the auto industry still loves CarPlay and Android Auto The future of cars is a subscription nightmare Everybody hates GM’s decision to kill Apple CarPlay and Android Auto for its EVs Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23722862 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve got a good one today. I’m talking to former President Barack Obama about AI, social networks, and how to think about democracy as both of those things collide.  I sat down with Obama last week at his offices in Washington, DC, just hours after President Joe Biden signed a sweeping executive order about AI. You’ll hear Obama say he’s been talking to the Biden administration and leaders across the tech industry about AI and how best to regulate it. My idea here was to talk to Obama the constitutional law professor more than Obama the politician. So this one got wonky fast.  You’ll also hear him say that he joined our show because he wanted to reach you, the Decoder audience, and get you all thinking about these problems. One of Obama’s worries is that the government needs insight and expertise to properly regulate AI, and you’ll hear him make a pitch for why people with that expertise should take a tour of duty in the government to make sure we get these things right. Links:  Biden releases AI executive order directing agencies to develop safety guidelines Clarence Thomas really wants Congress to regulate Twitter moderation Google CEO Sundar Pichai compares impact of AI to electricity and fire Sam Altman sells superintelligent sunshine as protestors call for AGI pause The Skokie case: How I came to represent the free speech rights of Nazis Disinformation is a threat to our democracy World leaders are gathering at the U.K.'s AI Summit. Doom is on the agenda. George R.R. Martin and other authors sue OpenAI for copyright infringement A conversation with Bing’s chatbot left me deeply unsettled Introducing the AI Mirror Test, which very smart people keep failing Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23712912 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I'm talking with Golnar Khosrowshahi, the founder and CEO of Reservoir Media, a newer record label that I think looks a lot like the future of the music industry. As Golnar explains, Reservoir thinks of individual songs as assets, and after acquiring them, the company sets about monetizing those assets in various ways. This is a copyright-based business in an age where copyright is under a lot of pressure — from TikTok, generative AI, and all of the now-familiar threats to the music business. If you're a Decoder listener, you know that I love thinking about the music industry. Whatever technology does to music, it does to everything else five years later. So paying attention to music is the best way I know to get ahead of the curve. I also just love music. Golnar is herself a musician. She obviously cares about music a lot, and she's clearly given a lot of thought to what happens next. So this was a great conversation.  Links: Drake’s AI clone is here — and Drake might not be able to stop him Hipgnosis made mega deals for song catalogs. Its future Is unclear. Reservoir acquires iconic Tommy Boy Music for $100 million Ed Sheeran wins copyright case over Marvin Gaye’s ‘Let’s Get It On’ Spotify is reportedly making major changes to its royalty model Hipgnosis shareholders vote against continuation of UK-listed music investment trust AI can actually help protect creativity and copyrights Google and YouTube are trying to have it both ways with AI and copyright No Fakes Act wants to protect actors and singers from unauthorized AI replicas ‘Glocalisation’ of music streaming within and across Europe Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23702539 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to internet policy legend Lawrence Lessig. He's been teaching law for more than 30 years, and is a defining expert on free speech and the internet — and something of a hero of mine, whose works I've been reading since college. You’ll hear us agree that the internet at this moment in time is absolutely flooded with disinformation, misinformation, and other really toxic stuff that’s harmful to us as individuals and, frankly, to our future as a functioning democracy. But you’ll also hear us disagree a fair amount about what to do about it. The First Amendment, AI, copyright law — there's a lot to unpack here. Links:  https://asml.cyber.harvard.edu/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/10/17/1081194/how-to-fix-the-internet-online-discourse/ https://www.protocol.com/facebook-papers https://www.tiktok.com/@aocinthehouse/video/7214318917135830318?lang=en https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/sensitive-claims-bias-facebook-relaxed-misinformation-rules-conservative-pages-n1236182 https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/repetition-lie-truth-propaganda/ https://www.theverge.com/23883027/alvarez-stolen-valor-first-amendment-kosseff-liar-crowded-theater https://fortune.com/2023/05/30/sam-altman-ai-risk-of-extinction-pandemics-nuclear-warfare/ https://www.americanbar.org/groups/intellectual_property_law/publications/landslide/2019-20/september-october/into-fandomverse/ Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23693274 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Kashmir Hill, a New York Times reporter whose new book, Your Face Belongs to Us: A Secretive Startup’s Quest to End Privacy as We Know It, chronicles the story of Clearview AI, a company that’s built some of the most sophisticated facial recognition and search technology that’s ever existed. As Kashmir reports, you simply plug a photo of someone into Clearview’s app, and it will find every photo of that person that’s ever been posted on the internet. It’s breathtaking and scary. Kashmir was the journalist who broke the first story about Clearview’s existence, starting with a bombshell investigation report that blew the doors open on the company’s clandestine operations. Over the past few years, she’s been relentlessly reporting on Clearview’s growth, the privacy implications of facial recognition technology, and all of the cautionary tales that inevitably popped up, from wrongful arrests to billionaires using the technology for personal vendettas. The book is fantastic. If you’re a Decoder listener, you’re going to love it, and I highly recommend it.  Links:  The secretive company that may end privacy as we know it What we learned about Clearview AI and its secret ‘co-founder’ Clearview AI does well in another round of facial recognition accuracy tests hiQ and LinkedIn reach proposed settlement in landmark scraping case My chilling run-in with a secretive facial-recognition app Clearview’s facial recognition app Is identifying child victims of abuse ‘Thousands of dollars for something I didn’t do’ How we store and search 30 billion faces Clearview AI agrees to permanent ban on selling facial recognition to private companies Clearview fined again in France for failing to comply with privacy orders Privacy law prevents Illinoisans from using Google app’s selfie art feature Madison Square Garden uses facial recognition to ban its owner’s enemies Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23683175 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we’re bringing you the last of our live-on-stage interviews from the 2023 Code Conference. Verge deputy editor Alex Heath sat down to chat with Roblox CEO David Baszucki.  Roblox definitely started out as a kid thing, but the company has big plans to change all that, and Alex got to find out a bit about how that’s going. Roblox is determined to be a platform, even more than a product — something users can develop games and experiences on. And of course, David and Alex spoke about AI. David sees a lot of opportunity for generative AI to help content creators on the Roblox platform in the not-so-distant future.  Links:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfYz8weQm4M https://techcrunch.com/2023/09/21/roblox-cuts-30-on-talent-acquisition-team-as-hiring-slows/ https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/8/23864858/roblox-ceo-prediction-adults-dating-experiences-rdc-2023 https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/27/23889307/meta-ray-ban-smart-glasses-wearables-connect https://www.theverge.com/23775268/roblox-ceo-david-baszucki-gaming-metaverse-robux-virtual-reality https://mashable.com/article/karlie-kloss-roblox-klossette https://www.theverge.com/23734209/parsons-roblox-design-class-metaverse-fashion Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23677085 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Amanda Rose Smith. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve got another interview from the Code Conference today. My friend and co-host, CNBC’s Julia Boorstin, and I had a chance to talk with Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe. Rivian is a newer company — RJ started it in 2009, and it took more than 10 years to start shipping cars to consumers. But its first vehicle, the R1T pickup, made a big splash when it arrived in 2021, and the company has more back orders for both the R1T and its second vehicle, the R1S SUV, than it can handle. For now. We asked RJ about that production ramp and whether Rivian can meet demand, and whether it’s just early adopters buying EVs or if they’ve finally gone mainstream. The conversation also touched on Rivian’s deal with Amazon and the auto industry’s push toward subscription features. And, of course, I had to ask Scaringe about the Cybertruck. How could I resist?! Links:  BMW starts selling heated seat subscriptions for $18 a month BMW drops plan to charge a monthly fee for heated seats U.A.W. expands strikes at automakers: Here’s what to know. Rivian boosts EV production target as supply problems ease Ford F-150 Lightning gets $10K price cut as ramping supply meets demand First look at Cybertruck’s comically large windshield wiper in action Amazon says it has ‘over a thousand’ Rivian electric vans making deliveries in the US Rivian to adopt Tesla's charging standard in EVs and chargers Rivian electric pickup caught fire while charging at Electrify America station Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23672708 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Last week, when I was co-hosting the Code Conference, I got to talk with Getty Images CEO Craig Peters. The generative AI boom is a direct threat to Getty in many ways. For example, the company is suing Stability AI for training the Stable Diffusion model on Getty content — sometimes clearly including AI-generated copies of the Getty watermark — without permission. Getty's answer? Its own proprietary, in-house AI tool, trained — with permission — on its own content, using a model where the original creators can get paid. Getty's put some pretty strict guardrails around it for now, but, as even Craig told us, there's still a lot of work to do. Links:  https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/21/23364696/getty-images-ai-ban-generated-artwork-illustration-copyright https://www.theverge.com/2023/2/6/23587393/ai-art-copyright-lawsuit-getty-images-stable-diffusion https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/25/23884679/getty-ai-generative-image-platform-launch https://www.theverge.com/23900198/microsoft-kevin-scott-ai-art-bing-google-nvidia-decoder-interview https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/06/section-230-the-internet-law-politicians-love-to-hate-explained/ https://www.npr.org/2023/05/18/1176881182/supreme-court-sides-against-andy-warhol-foundation-in-copyright-infringement-cas https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/26/23808184/big-ai-really-wants-to-convince-us-that-theyre-cautious https://journal.everypixel.com/ai-image-statistics https://www.npr.org/2023/05/22/1177590231/fake-viral-images-of-an-explosion-at-the-pentagon-were-probably-created-by-ai Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23667741 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Amanda Rose Smith. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I co-hosted the Code Conference last week, and today’s episode is one of my favorite conversations from the show: Microsoft CTO and EVP of AI Kevin Scott. If you caught Kevin on Decoder a few months ago, you know that he and I love talking about technology together. I really appreciate that he thinks about the relationship between technology and culture as much as we do at The Verge, and it was great to add the energy from the live Code audience to that dynamic. Kevin and I talked about how things are going with Bing and Microsoft’s AI efforts, as well the company’s relationship with Nvidia and whether it's planning to develop its own AI chips. I also asked Kevin some pretty philosophical questions about AI: Why would you write a song or a book when AI is out there making custom content for other people? Well, it’s because Kevin thinks the AI is still “terrible” at it for now, as Kevin found out firsthand. But he also thinks that creating is just what people do, and AI will help more people become more creative. Links:  Microsoft CTO Kevin Scott thinks Sydney might make a comeback Hands-on with the new Bing: Microsoft’s step beyond ChatGPT Microsoft Bing hits 100 million active users in bid to grab share from Google How Microsoft is trying to lessen Its addiction to OpenAI as AI costs soar AMD CEO Lisa Su on the AI revolution and competing with Nvidia Microsoft's tiny Phi-1 language model shows how important data quality is for AI training Microsoft says listing the Ottawa Food Bank as a tourist destination wasn’t the result of ‘unsupervised AI’ Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23664239 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We spent a lot of time here on Decoder talking about electric vehicles and the future of cars and we’re usually talking about passenger vehicles or maybe cargo vans. But there’s another huge industry that can also reap the benefits of electrified transportation: agriculture.  I co-hosted the Code Conference this week where I had the opportunity to hangout onstage with Monarch Tractor CEO Praveen Penmetsa. Honestly, this was one of my favorite conversations of the entire event.  We are utterly reliant on farming as a species, and farming is utterly reliant on tractors. If we don’t have tractors, we don’t have food. But electrifying farms is hard, and Praveen explained how he and Monarch are trying to tackle that challenge. The ambition is to compete in an open way with closed platforms like John Deere, and Praveen said his goal for the Monarch platform is to be the Android of agriculture.  Links:  Electric robot tractors powered by Nvidia AI chips are here John Deere turned tractors into computers — what’s next? John Deere commits to letting farmers repair their own tractors (kind of) Monarch Tractors to be manufactured by Foxconn Foxconn begins rolling first Monarch electric tractors off assembly lines in Lordstown A sneak peek into Monarch Tractor's vision-based AI technology CNH Industrial, Monarch Tractor agree electrification technologies deal Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23659941 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we’re bringing you something a little different. The Code Conference was this week, and we had a great time talking live onstage with all of our guests. We’ll be sharing a lot of these conversations here in the coming days, and the first one we’re sharing is my chat with Dr. Lisa Su, the CEO of AMD.  Lisa and I spoke for half an hour, and we covered an incredible number of topics, especially about AI and the chip supply chain. The balance of supply and demand is overall in a pretty good place right now, Lisa told us, with the notable exception of these high-end GPUs powering all of the large AI models that everyone’s running. The hottest GPU in the game is Nvidia’s H100 chip. But AMD is working to compete with a new chip Lisa told us about called the MI300 that should be as fast as the H100. You’ll also hear Lisa talk about what companies are doing to increase manufacturing capacity.  Finally, Lisa answered questions from the amazing Code audience and talked a lot about how much AMD is using AI inside the company right now. It’s more than you think, although Lisa did say AI is not going to be designing chips all by itself anytime soon.  Okay, Dr. Lisa Su, CEO of AMD. Here we go.  Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23658688 Links:  AI startup Lamini bets future on AMD's Instinct GPUs Biden signs $280 billion CHIPS and Science Act Pat Gelsinger came back to turn Intel around — here’s how it’s going Huawei’s chip breakthrough poses new threat to Apple in China — and questions for Washington AMD expands AI product lineup with GPU-only Instinct MI300X Microsoft is reportedly helping AMD expand into AI chips US curbs AI chip exports from Nvidia and AMD to some Middle East countries Apple on the iPhone 15 Pro: 'It's Going to be the Best Game Console' Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we have a special episode for you. The Code Conference wrapped up this week, and the finale included a rare interview from my Code co-host and CNBC correspondent Julia Boorstin with X CEO Linda Yaccarino. To say the sit-down with Elon Musk’s No. 2 was confrontational would be an understatement.  Yaccarino appeared both unprepared to answer tough questions and very combative, especially when asked about comments from former trust and safety head Yoel Roth, who’s become an outspoken critic of the direction of the company since Elon took over. Roth spoke onstage at Code with Kara Swisher just an hour before, where he warned Yaccarino of the risks of the job and spoke about the extreme harassment he’s faced since leaving the company.  Yaccarino also gave us some updated stats on X user metrics and claimed the company would turn a profit in 2024. And of course, there were some very terse exchanges concerning whether Elon really plans to start charging a subscription fee to use the platform, if he seriously plans to sue the Anti-Defamation League, and the company’s recent cuts to its election integrity team. It’s a jaw-dropping interview, and you really have to listen to the whole thing. Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What motivates Mark Zuckerberg these days? It's a question Decoder guest host Alex Heath posed at the end of his interview last week, after he and Zuckerberg had spent an hour talking about Threads, Zuckerberg's vision for how generative AI will reshape Meta's apps, the Quest 3, and other news from the company's Connect conference, which kicked off today.  After spending the past five years as a wartime CEO, Zuckerberg is getting back to basics, and he clearly feels good about it. "I think we've done a lot of good things," he said. "But for the next wave of my life and for the company — but also outside of the company with what I'm doing at CZI [Chan Zuckerberg Initiative] and some of my personal projects — I define my life at this point more in terms of getting to work on awesome things with great people who I like working with." For Zuckerberg, "awesome things" means figuring out how to combine his company's AR, VR, and AI ambitions into new products.    This rare interview with the Meta CEO also includes details on his ongoing feud with Elon Musk and the quest to beat X/Twitter using Threads, his perspective on open source, and his vision for decentralized social media. Okay, Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg. Here we go. Links: Mark Zuckerberg is ready to fight Elon Musk in a cage match The three reasons Twitter didn’t sell to Facebook Threads app usage plummets despite initial promise as refuge from Twitter Threads isn’t for news and politics, says Instagram’s boss You can now verify your Threads profile on Mastodon In show of force, Silicon Valley titans pledge ‘getting this right’ With AI Meta is putting AI chatbots everywhere A conversation with Bing’s chatbot left me deeply unsettled Custom AI chatbots are quietly becoming the next big thing in fandom Meta’s Smart Glasses can take calls, play music, and livestream from your face Meta’s $499.99 Quest 3 headset is all about mixed reality and video games The Meta Quest 3 is sharper, more powerful, and still trying to make mixed reality happen Here’s what Mark Zuckerberg thinks about Apple’s Vision Pro Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

TechCrunch is one of the most important trade publications in the world of tech and startups, and its annual Disrupt conference is where dozens of major companies have launched… and some have failed. Matt has been the editor-in-chief of TechCrunch for essentially a decade now, and he and I have been both friends and competitors the entire time. We’ve competed for scoops, traded criticisms, and asked each other for advice in running our publications and managing our teams. So when Matt announced last month that he’s stepping down from his role at TechCrunch it felt important to have him come on for what you might call an exit interview — a look back at the past decade running a media outlet at the center of the tech ecosystem, with all of the chaos that’s entailed. Links:  Why We Sold TechCrunch To AOL, And Where We Go From Here | TechCrunch (2010) TechCrunch founder leaves AOL in a cloud of acrimony | CNN Money (2011) SB Nation Sacks AOL in Raid of Former Engadget Team for Competing New Tech Site, As AOL Zeroes in on New EiC | All Things D (2011) Why Every Company Needs A 'No Bozos' Policy | Forbes (2012) Artificial Intelligence Nonprofit OpenAI Launches With Backing From Elon Musk And Sam Altman | TechCrunch Just buy this Brother laser printer everyone has, it’s fine | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Nick Statt and Kate Cox. It was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Six: The Untold Story of America's First Women Astronauts, from longtime space reporter and Verge alum Loren Grush, is out today. It’s been 40 years since Sally Ride became the first American woman in space — but she was far from the last. In the early 1980s six women — Sally Ride, Judy Resnick, Kathy Sullivan, Anna Fisher, Rhea Seddon, and Shannon Lucid — would get a chance to fly a mission on one of the space shuttles… including, unfortunately, the ill-fated 1986 Challenger launch. The story of the six may be history, but it’s far from ancient, and there’s a lot going on here that ties directly to today. And of course, what’s an astronaut story without some high-flying hijinks in it? Listen to the end for Loren’s favorite. Links: Nichelle Nichols - NASA Recruitment Film (1977) Top Black Woman Is Ousted By NASA | The New York Times (1973) The Space Truck | The Washington Post (1981) NASA Artemis Five former SpaceX employees speak out about harassment at the company | The Verge Why did Blue Origin leave so many female space reporters out of its big reveal? | The Verge ‘We better watch out’: NASA boss sounds alarm on Chinese moon ambitions | Politico Elon Musk’s Shadow Rule | The New Yorker US Takes First Step Toward Regulating Commercial Human Spaceflight | Bloomberg Apply to attend the Code Conference Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okta is a big company, a Wall Street SaaS darling. For most of us, it's the thing we have to log into 50 times a week just to get any work done. But from Okta's point of view, Jameeka Green Aaron told us, it's an identity company. I spoke with Jameeka about what "identity" really means — in the digital space, in your real life, and at work — in 2023, and how an identity-based approach might be more or less secure than other approaches. I’m also gearing up to host Code in September (apply to attend here), and I’m thinking a lot about AI — very much a challenge for the future of security, even in a biometric-based era. Links: Apple IDs now support passkeys — if you’re on the iOS 17 or macOS Sonoma betas How to use a passkey to sign in to your Google account Windows 11 tests letting you sign in to websites with a fingerprint or face Apple, Google, and Microsoft will soon implement passwordless sign-in on all major platforms Microsoft called out for ‘blatantly negligent’ cybersecurity practices Okta Faces Long Road Back At Okta, CTO and CISO collaborate by design Apply to attend the Code Conference Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Perkins Miller is the CEO of Fandom, which both hosts thousands of wikis for everything from Disney to Grand Theft Auto and also runs several publications. Millions of people contribute millions of pieces of content to the platform, and Fandom surrounds all that content with ads and uses all that data to generate insights about how fans think about their favorite games, TV shows, and movies. While you might enjoy the content, a lot of people have complaints — especially about the sheer number of ads. We talked about what it means to host user-generated content in 2023; content moderation; and the general state of media, especially games media, which is pretty rocky right now. I’m also gearing up to host the Code Conference in September (apply to attend here), and I’ve been thinking a lot about AI, search, and the web — all very much big challenges on the horizon for Fandom. Links: Layoffs Hit GameSpot, Giant Bomb Just Months After Fandom Buys Them - Kotaku How Fandom's first-party data, FanDNA, is expanding to improve recommendations for advertisers and audiences - Digiday The AI feedback loop: Researchers warn of 'model collapse' as AI trains on AI-generated content - VentureBeat How Reddit crushed the biggest protest in its history - The Verge ‘Not for Machines to Harvest’: Data Revolts Break Out Against A.I. - The New York Times Someone keeps accusing fanfiction authors of writing their fic with AI, and nobody knows why - The Verge Massive Zelda Wiki Reclaims Independence Six Months Before Tears of the Kingdom - Kotaku Official Minecraft wiki editors so furious at Fandom's 'degraded' functionality and popups they're overwhelmingly voting to leave the site - PC Gamer Trials and Tribble-ations (episode) - Memory Alpha Apply to attend the Code Conference Transcript: Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters, and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We have a little surprise in the feed today: An episode of "Land of the Giants," which is all about Tesla this season. Former Verge transportation reporter Tamara Warren and former Jalopnik EIC Patrick George, who are both deeply sourced in the world of cars, host, and every episode has reporting and insight about Tesla that really hasn’t been shared before. It was ahead of the EV competition in basically every way for a long time. But the question Tamara and Patrick want to answer is: Is Tesla still winning by default? And where is the competition pulling ahead now that every carmaker is doing EVs? I joined them in this episode to discuss how modern cars, especially EVs, are being totally rethought as rolling computers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

AWS is quite a story. It started as an experiment almost 20 years ago with Amazon trying to sell its excess server capacity. And people really doubted it. Why was the online bookstore trying to sell cloud services? But now, AWS is the largest cloud services provider in the world, and it’s the most profitable segment of Amazon, generating more than $22 billion in sales last quarter alone. By some estimates, AWS powers roughly one-third of the entire global internet. And on the rare occasion an AWS cluster goes down, an unfathomable number of platforms, websites, and services feel it, and so do hundreds of millions of users. Adam Selipsky was there almost from the start: he joined in 2005 and became CEO of AWS in 2019 when former AWS CEO Andy Jassy took over for Jeff Bezos as CEO of Amazon. Even with big competitors such as Microsoft and Google gaining ground, he estimates that only 10 percent of his potential customers overall have made the jump to the cloud.  That leaves lots of room to grow, and I wanted to know where he thinks that growth can come from — and importantly, what will keep AWS competitive as the word “cloud” starts to mean everything and nothing. AWS is going big on AI, but it has some challenges. Adam and I got into all of it and into the weeds of what it means to be an AI provider at scale. It’s uncharted territory. Links: Big Three Dominate the Global Cloud Market Amazon’s server outage broke fast food apps like McDonald’s and Taco Bell Amazon names former exec Adam Selipsky as the new head of AWS AWS is ready to power AI agents that can handle busywork instead of just chatting Nvidia reveals H100 GPU for AI and teases ‘world’s fastest AI supercomputer’ Amazon plans to rework Alexa in the age of ChatGPT Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/23824200/ai-cloud-amazon-aws-adam-selipsky Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

ActivityPub is back in the news, thanks to Meta’s Threads launch and Elon’s continued immolation of Twitter — now X. That makes this the perfect time to dig into the Decoder archives to hear what Mastodon CEO Eugen Rochko thinks about the future of social media. Mastodon got a head start as the most well-known of the rising decentralized social networks, but that’s changing fast. Bluesky, on a competing protocol, is picking up steam and Threads promises to decentralize in the future, using the same ActivityPub protocol as Mastodon. That’s a big deal, with big potential. Verge Editor-at-Large David Pierce has been covering all this very closely. Before we jump into the interview with Rochko, I spoke with David to help update everyone on what ActivityPub even is, and what it could mean for the future of social media. Links: More than two million users have flocked to Mastodon since Elon Musk took over Twitter - The Verge  A beginner’s guide to Mastodon, the hot new open-source Twitter clone - The Verge Elon Musk - The Verge Benevolent dictator for life - Wikipedia Mastodon Social Eugen Rochko (@Gargron@mastodon.social)    Erase browser history: can AI reset the browser battle? - The Verge    Twitter alternatives for the Musk-averse - The Verge We tried to run a social media site and it was awful | Financial Times Denial-of-service attack - Wikipedia   Can ActivityPub save the internet? - The Verge  Five reasons Threads could still go the distance - The Verge What's next for Threads - The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23422689  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I’m talking to Anthony Casalena, the founder and CEO of Squarespace, the ubiquitous web hosting and design company. If you’re a podcast listener, you’ve heard a Squarespace ad.  I was excited to talk to Anthony because it really feels like we’re going through a reset moment on the internet, and I wanted to hear how he’s thinking about the web and what websites are even for in 2023. If you’re a Vergecast listener, you know I’ve been saying it feels a lot like 2011 out there. The big platforms like Facebook and TikTok are very focused on entertainment content. Twitter is going through… let’s call them changes. People are trying out new platforms like Instagram Threads and rethinking their relationships with old standbys like Reddit. And the introduction of AI means that search engines like Google, which was really the last great source of traffic for web pages, just doesn’t seem that reliable anymore as it begins to answer more questions directly. It’s uncertain, and exciting: a lot of things we took for granted just a couple years ago are up for grabs, and I think that might be a good thing. I love talking to people who’ve been building on the web for this long, and Anthony was no exception – we had fun with this one. Also I think this is the most we have ever talked about pressure washers on Decoder.  Links: Google sunsets Domains business and shovels it off to Squarespace - The Verge How Did Squarespace Know Podcasts Would Get This Big? - The New York Times Watch Squarespace CEO on Leveraging AI Into Website Building - Bloomberg Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23559195 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Jackie McDermott and Raghu Manavalan, and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters, and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Demis Hassabis, the CEO of Google DeepMind, the newly created division of Google responsible for AI efforts across the company. Google DeepMind is the result of an internal merger: Google acquired Demis’ DeepMind startup in 2014 and ran it as a separate company inside its parent company, Alphabet, while Google itself had an AI team called Google Brain.  Google has been showing off AI demos for years now, but with the explosion of ChatGPT and a renewed threat from Microsoft in search, Google and Alphabet CEO Sundar Pichai made the decision to bring DeepMind into Google itself earlier this year to create… Google DeepMind. What’s interesting is that Google Brain and DeepMind were not necessarily compatible or even focused on the same things: DeepMind was famous for applying AI to things like games and protein-folding simulations. The AI that beat world champions at Go, the ancient board game? That was DeepMind’s AlphaGo. Meanwhile, Google Brain was more focused on what’s come to be the familiar generative AI toolset: large language models for chatbots, and editing features in Google Photos. This was a culture clash and a big structure decision with the goal of being more competitive and faster to market with AI products. And the competition isn’t just OpenAI and Microsoft — you might have seen a memo from a Google engineer floating around the web recently claiming that Google has no competitive moat in AI because open-source models running on commodity hardware are rapidly evolving and catching up to the tools run by the giants. Demis confirmed that the memo was real but said it was part of Google’s debate culture, and he disagreed with it because he has other ideas about where Google’s competitive edge might come into play. We also talked about AI risk and artificial general intelligence. Demis is not shy that his goal is building an AGI, and we talked through what risks and regulations should be in place and on what timeline. Demis recently signed onto a 22-word statement about AI risk with OpenAI’s Sam Altman and others that simply reads, “Mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a global priority alongside other societal-scale risks such as pandemics and nuclear war.” That’s pretty chill, but is that the real risk right now? Or is it just a distraction from other more tangible problems like AI replacing labor in various creative industries? We also talked about the new kinds of labor AI is creating — armies of low-paid taskers classifying data in countries like Kenya and India in order to train AI systems. I wanted to know if Demis thought these jobs were here to stay or just a temporary side effect of the AI boom. This one really hits all the Decoder high points: there’s the big idea of AI, a lot of problems that come with it, an infinite array of complicated decisions to be made, and of course, a gigantic org chart decision in the middle of it all. Demis and I got pretty in the weeds, and I still don’t think we covered it all, so we’ll have to have him back soon. Links: Inside the AI Factory Inside Google’s AI culture clash - The Verge A leaked Google memo raises the alarm about open-source A.I. | Fortune The End of Search As You Know It Google’s Sundar Pichai talks Search, AI, and dancing with Microsoft - The Verge DeepMind reportedly lost a yearslong bid to win more independence from Google - The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23542786 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Jackie McDermott and Raghu Manavalan, and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters, and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Roblox has 66 million daily users, and people spent 14 billion collective hours on Roblox in just Q1 of 2023. But its CEO David Baszucki still wants to see the company grow.  One idea? Aging up the kinds of experiences that are allowed on its platform. Roblox recently introduced 17+ experiences. It wants to add new AI world-building capabilities. It’s even partnering with advertisers to roll out more immersive ad experiences. It’s been years since the number of adults gaming outnumbered kids – it seems like that’s driving a lot of growth for everyone, including Roblox. But these virtual world games seem like they all want to expand to be much more than just for kids, and much more than just for games. If you think about it, Roblox is already like a metaverse. Schools are using it for classes, companies are starting to advertise there, and people are just hanging out as avatars.  It’s already big, but the hope is to get much, much bigger. Alex Heath, deputy editor at The Verge, got the chance to chat with David up at Roblox headquarters in San Mateo, California. Their conversation covered a lot: why now’s the time for Roblox to grow up, the classic Decoder questions about structure and decision-making, and sadly, why infinite Robux isn’t a thing. Apologies to all the eight year olds out there. Okay, Roblox CEO David Baszucki. Here we go. Links: Roblox will allow exclusive experiences for people 17 and over Roblox, explained - The Verge Fortnite and Roblox are dueling for the future of user-built games - The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Raghu Manavalan and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you’ve spent more than two minutes somewhere on social media, you have probably come across Gary Vaynerchuk. For years I have wondered, is this just a character? Or is there a real Gary Vaynerchuk somewhere behind “GaryVee,” the social media entrepreneur and internet brand? Gary got his start working at his family’s liquor store, which he turned into an online wine shop. That’s where he started in social media, hosting a long-running YouTube show called “Wine Library TV.” He parlayed that into the gigantic GaryVee brand, which at its core, is about entrepreneurship. Gary co-founded the restaurant reservation platform Resy, which he sold to American Express in 2019, and Empathy Wines which he sold in 2020.  The Vaynerchuk empire remains vast, and it’s structured in complicated ways. There’s holding company VaynerX, which contains the ad agency VaynerMedia. There’s another company called Gallery Media which owns lifestyle websites. Gary even co-founded a sports agency – VaynerSports, with pro athletes like the NFL’s Kirk Cousins and Sauce Gardner on the roster, MLB shortstop Bo Bichette, and a variety of combat athletes. On top of all that, there’s a serious upheaval going on in digital media. The era of the social web is coming to a major moment of change, with new platforms like TikTok in the mix and old standbys like Twitter and Reddit going through complicated and controversial resets. New platforms bring new personalities and influencers, who are native to those platforms and maybe better at capturing the audience there. It’s one thing when you’re the first GaryVee. But staying GaryVee, in a time of change, and pitching brands and companies that his approach to social media will stay relevant, is an ongoing challenge. We got to chat with Gary at his Hudson Yards office in Manhattan and I will tell you, he did not hold back with his answers. Links: A trip to the GaryVee convention, where everyone is part of crypto’s 1 percent - The Verge How Gary Vaynerchuk Became an NFT Guru Gary Vaynerchuk expects NFTs to expand beyond digital collectibles long term | TechCrunch Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23530741 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Jackie McDermott and Raghu Manavalan. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The idea behind private equity or PE is simple: a private equity firm gathers up a bunch of cash, raises some investor cash and takes on a lot of debt to buy various companies, often taking them off the public stock market. Then, they usually install new management and embark on aggressive cost cutting and turnaround programs – mostly because they have to pay down all that debt pretty fast. Then, the company can be sold or taken public again for a hefty profit. But don’t worry—if it doesn’t work out, the PE firms are extracting fees at every step of the process so they get paid no matter what happens. In another world, these PE deals are just boring financing strategies or maybe the backbone of the occasional juicy corporate takeover story. In Decoder world, PE is everywhere. Since the modern PE industry kicked off in the 1980’s, it’s grown virtually unchecked, and as author Brendan Ballou explains, that’s had seriously negative consequences for all kinds of markets and consumers. Private equity affects everything from the modern nursing home industry, to the Solarwinds hack, one of the biggest hacks in U.S. history. Brendan Ballou is the author of Plunder: Private Equity’s Plan to Pillage America. Brendan is also a federal prosecutor and he served as Special Counsel for Private Equity in the antitrust division at the Department of Justice, so he’s uniquely suited to writing a book like this. Although he will be the first to tell you, the book does not reflect the views of the DOJ. This is a wonky episode, but it’s essential. Links: Plunder by Brendan Ballou  How Private Equity Buried Payless - The New York Times  Barnes & Noble is going back to its indie roots to compete with Amazon - Decoder, The Verge How arson led to a culture reboot at Traeger, with CEO Jeremy Andrus - Decoder, The Verge Opinion | Private Equity Is Gutting America — and Getting Away With It - The New York Times Ticketmaster, Taylor Swift, and antitrust – explained - The Verge What is chokepoint capitalism, with authors Cory Doctorow and Rebecca Giblin  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Jackie McDermott and Raghu Manavalan, and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters, and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jennifer Witz is the CEO of SiriusXM. You probably know the company as the satellite radio brand in virtually every new car, but it also owns Pandora, a huge podcast network that includes Team Coco and 99% Invisible, a content operation with huge stars like Howard Stern, and has broadcast deals with every major sports league. SiriusXM is effectively the dominant market leader for built-in premium audio in cars, in a time when competition is increasing. As the infotainment system in cars gets ever more complex and computer-like, the Sirius experience has to keep up. On top of that, the state of car software is a mess. GM announced it won’t support Apple CarPlay in new EVs. Other companies are using various versions of Android. Tesla has its own platform. And Sirius has to support all of it with applications that compete with Big Tech companies, all while continuing to integrate the satellite hardware into the cars themselves — on top of launching satellites on SpaceX rockets. Links: After layoffs, SiriusXM looks to star-studded podcasts What Is SiriusXM with 360L? A Breakdown of the New Audio Platform  SiriusXM CEO Calls Audio Ad Sales Market “Tough” Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23514318 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Jackie McDermott and Raghu Manavalan, and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters, and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Microsoft CTO Kevin Scott oversees the company's AI efforts, including its big partnership with OpenAI and ChatGPT. Kevin and I spoke ahead of his keynote talk at Microsoft Build, the company’s annual developer conference, where he showed off the company’s new AI assistant tools, which Microsoft calls Copilots. Microsoft is big into Copilots. GitHub Copilot is already helping millions of developers write code, and now, the company is adding Copilots to everything from Office to the Windows Terminal. Basically, if there’s a text box, Microsoft thinks AI can help you fill it out, and Microsoft has a long history of assistance like this. You might remember Clippy from the ’90s. Well, AI Super Clippy is here. Microsoft is building these Copilots in collaboration with OpenAI, and Kevin manages that partnership. I wanted to ask Kevin why Microsoft decided to partner with a startup instead of building the AI tech internally, where the two companies disagree, how they resolve any differences, and what Microsoft is choosing to build for itself instead of relying on OpenAI. Kevin controls the entire GPU budget at Microsoft. I wanted to know how he decides to spend it.  We also talked about what happened when Bing tried to get New York Times columnist Kevin Roose to leave his wife. Like I said, this episode has a little bit of everything. Okay. Kevin Scott, CTO and executive vice president of AI at Microsoft. Here we go. Links: Microsoft Build - The Verge  Kevin Scott on Vergecast in 2020  GitHub Copilot gets a new ChatGPT-like assistant to help developers write and fix code - The Verge  Hackers made Iran's nuclear computers blast AC/DC - The Verge  Microsoft resurrects Clippy again after brutally killing him off in Microsoft Teams - The Verge Google’s Sundar Pichai talks Search, AI, and dancing with Microsoft - The Verge Congress hates Big Tech — but it still seems optimistic about AI - The Verge Hollywood writers to strike over low wages caused by streaming boom. - The Verge  The 70 percent solution — CNN Sal Khan: How AI could save (not destroy) education | TED Talk Why a Conversation With Bing’s Chatbot Left Me Deeply Unsettled - The New York Times Responsible AI principles from Microsoft Microsoft has been secretly testing its Bing chatbot ‘Sydney’ for years - The Verge         Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23497429 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Jackie McDermott and Raghu Manavalan, and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr. Audio Director is Andrew Marino, our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters, and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today – we’ve got a treat for you. We’re going to run a special episode from our friends over at Vox. Peter Kafka and his team just wrapped up a special 3-part series on AI.  AI has captured the imagination of Silicon Valley. In fact, in the last few months, I’ve talked to both Google CEO Sundar Pichai and Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella about AI after they announced new AI-powered search products. And in the middle of the frenzy, it's hard to tell what's really going on. What exactly is AI, how does tech plan to re-design the world with it, and why are a bunch of smart people very, very worried? In this episode, they’re diving into the gold rush around AI. Figuring out what’s just hype, meeting the VCs that are hungry to invest, and finding out if there will be room for startups, or if the giants will just own it all. If you’re a Decoder listener, this is right up your alley. Thanks to Peter Kafka and Vox. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to Decoder. I’m Nilay Patel, editor in chief of The Verge, and Decoder is my show about big ideas, and other problems. We have a special episode today – I’m talking to Sundar Pichai, the CEO of Google and Alphabet. We hung out the day after Google IO, the company’s big developer conference, where Sundar introduced new generative AI features in virtually all of the company’s products. It’s an important moment for Google, which invented a lot of the core technology behind the current AI moment – the company is quick to point out the T in chatGPT stands for Transformer, the large language model tech first which was invented at Google. But openAI and others have been first to market with generative AI products — and openAI in particular has partnered with Microsoft on a new version of Bing that feels like the first real competitor to Google search in a long time.  So I wanted to know what Sundar thinks of this moment – and in particular, what he thinks of the future of search, which is the heart of Google’s business. Web search right now can be pretty hit or miss, right? There’s a lot of weird content farms out there, and AI-based search might be able to just answer questions in a more natural way. But that means remaking the web, and really, remaking Google. Sundar is already going down that path – he just reorganized Google and Alphabet’s AI teams, moving a company called DeepMind inside Google and merging it with the Google Brain AI group to form a new unit called Google DeepMind. I can’t resist an org chart question, so we talked about why he made that call – and how he made it. We also talked about Sundar’s vision for Google – where he wants it to go, and what’s driving his ambition to take the company into the future. This is a jam-packed episode – we talked about a lot, and I didn’t even get to Google’s AI metadata plans, or what’s going on with RCS and Android. Maybe next time.  Links: The nine biggest announcements from Google I/O 2023  What happens when Google Search doesn't have the answers?  Microsoft thinks AI can beat Google at search — CEO Satya Nadella explains why  Let’s chat about RCS - The Verge  Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23484772  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Brian Chesky, the co-founder and CEO of Airbnb, was previously on the show in 2021. Back then, Airbnb was betting big on long-term stays for remote work amid the pandemic, and Chesky had just restructured the company to a more functional organization, getting rid of the divisions it had before. Now, the pandemic is ending, Airbnb has itself adopted a hybrid policy, Chesky’s back in the office several days a week, and they’re two years into that new structure. So that’s pure Decoder bait. I wanted to ask Chesky how that restructure is going. Has it really made the company more agile and cohesive like he hoped? Has the bet on working from anywhere paid off? Links: Brian Chesky's tweet announcing the summer 2023 launch Microsoft thinks AI can beat Google at search — CEO Satya Nadella explains why  Samsung caught faking zoom photos of the Moon Why the future of work is the future of travel, with Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ben Smith is the former and founding editor-in-chief of Buzzfeed News, the founder and editor-in-chief of Semafor, and the author of a new book called Traffic: Genius, Rivalry, and Delusion in the Billion-Dollar Race to Go Viral, which is about the rise and fall of the social platform age in media, through the lens of Gawker Media and Buzzfeed and, in particular, their founders, Nick Denton and Jonah Peretti. I say the fall of the social platform age pretty literally: just before we spoke, Buzzfeed actually shut down Buzzfeed News, saying it just wasn’t making enough money, Facebook and the rest are all in on vertical video, and the chaos at Twitter means a lot of baseline media industry assumptions are now up for grabs. Ben and I talked about a lot – where do journalists build their brands now? Where does traffic even come from anymore? What’s next? Of course, we talked about Semafor as well. Ben and his co-founder, Justin Smith, raised $25 million and launched a news website, newsletters, and events covering the US and sub-Saharan Africa, with plans to expand into other regions. I wanted to know what lessons from Buzzfeed Ben brought into Semafor and, honestly, how he’s thinking about building an audience instead of just trying to get traffic.  This is a good one. The book’s great, too. Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23470662 Links: Traffic by Ben Smith What Colors Are This Dress?  TikTok - The Verge Is Substack Notes a ‘Twitter clone’? We asked CEO Chris Best - The Verge MyPillow CEO’s free speech social network will ban posts that take the Lord’s name in vain - The Verge Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News Cambridge Analytica: understanding Facebook’s data privacy scandal - The Verge 28 Signs You Were Raised By Persian Parents In America Here's The Powerful Letter The Stanford Victim Read To Her Attacker More Than 180 Women Have Reported Sexual Assaults At Massage Envy Macedonia’s Pro-Trump Fake News Industry Had American Links, And Is Under Investigation For Possible Russia Ties Watching Silicon Valley Bank melt down from the front row, with Brex CEO Henrique Dubugras - Decoder, The Verge  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott with help from Hadley Robinson and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve got a special episode with Alex Heath, deputy editor at The Verge and a familiar host for Decoder listeners, and David Marcus, the CEO of Lightspark. That’s a company that just launched a service to make fast transactions using Bitcoin on something called the Lightning Network. David was previously at PayPal, and then he led Meta’s big payments effort that went nowhere, but he’s got a lot to say about where crypto and payments are right now. Links: Launching the Lightspark Platform Facebook tells Congress how it thinks Libra should be regulated - The Verge The leader of Facebook’s stalled cryptocurrency project is leaving the company - The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23460507  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Travis Katz is the CEO of BrightDrop, a subsidiary of GM that makes electrified delivery vans with an eye toward rebooting all of how delivery works. BrightDrop has pretty big partnerships already, with names like FedEx, Verizon, and Walmart committed to its Zevo 600 van, and it’s got big ideas for making the steps from the van to your door more efficient as well with something called e-carts. Katz says there’s a huge demand for delivery especially as online shopping keeps getting bigger, but the transportation network is at capacity, and you can’t just keep throwing more trucks and drivers on the road, or making city streets wider. His plan is to redesign the entire system to make it more efficient. So I wanted to know how he’s attacking that problem and making it manageable, all while getting buy-in from customers that won’t really accept delays or increased costs. BrightDrop is a wholly owned subsidiary of General Motors, so I also wanted to know how that works, what he gets from being part of the big company, and which parts slow him down. Lots of classic Decoder stuff in this one. Links: GM’s electric delivery van just set a world record — with me riding shotgun - The Verge  Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23451134  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott with help from Hadley Robinson and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It is fair to say that Substack has had a dramatic week and a half or so, and I talked to their CEO Chris Best about it. The company announced a new feature called Substack Notes, which looks quite a bit like Twitter — Substack authors can post short bits of text to share links and kick off discussions, and people can reply to them, like the posts, the whole thing. Like I said, Twitter. Twitter, under the direction of Elon Musk, did not like the prospect of this competition, and for several days last week, Twitter was taking aggressive actions against Substack. At one point you couldn’t even like tweets with Substack links in them. At another point, clicking on a Substack link resulted in a warning message about the platform being unsafe. And finally, Twitter redirected all searches for the word Substack to “newsletter.” Musk claimed Substack was somehow downloading the Twitter database to bootstrap Substack Notes, which, well, I’m still not sure what that means, but I at least asked Chris what he thought that meant and whether he was doing it.  It’s tempting to think of Substack like a rival platform to Twitter, but until the arrival of Substack Notes, it was much more like enterprise software. With Substack Notes, the company is in direct competition with social networks like Twitter. It’s shipping a consumer product that’s designed to be used by Substack readers. It is no longer just a software vendor; it’s a consumer product company. And that carries with it another set of content moderation concerns, that, after talking to Chris, I’m just not sure Substack is ready for. Like, I really don’t know. You’ll just have to listen to his answers — or really, non-answers — for yourself. This is a wild one. I’m still processing it. Let me know what you think. Okay, Chris Best, CEO of Substack. Here we go. Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23445916 Links: Can Substack CEO Chris Best build a new model for journalism? - The Verge Now live for all: Substack Notes Substack Content Guidelines Welcome to the new Verge (re Quick Posts) Can Mastodon seize the moment from Twitter? - The Verge Twitter’s newsletter tool is shutting down in less than a month - The Verge Elon Musk on Twitter: "@BretWeinstein 1. Substack links were never blocked..." Casey Newton - Substack Notes Platformer on Substack    Can we regulate social media without breaking the First Amendment? - The Verge How to buy a social network, with Tumblr CEO Matt Mullenweg - The Verge Newsletter platform Substack raises $65 mln in Andreessen Horowitz-led funding round | Reuters Substack Drops Fund-Raising Efforts as Market Sours - The New York Times Substack Wefunder Substack Notes, Twitter Blocks Substack, Substack Versus Writers How much money do we think Substack lost last year? - The Verge Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Brex CEO Henrique Dubugras found himself playing an important role during the Silicon Valley Bank collapse. Brex is what you might call a neobank — not a traditional bank but rather a financial services provider that helps companies manage how they spend money, corporate cards, travel expenses and the rest. In the middle of the SVB collapse, Brex was more than just a spending management company. It was also a safe place to park money. Brex saw billions of deposits in a very short period of time, giving Dubugras a bird's-eye view of what was happening — and what was happening was not great for the banking system, especially in Silicon Valley. (Our own Liz Lopatto has been covering this in depth.) I wanted to hear Dubugras' perspective on SVB both as a fintech CEO and a founder himself, whether he thought the crisis was rational or just a panic caused by group texts and easy-to-use mobile banking interfaces, what he thinks will happen to the startup ecosystem next, and how much of an opportunity all this was for Brex. Dubugras is a young CEO. He just turned 27. He really surprised me with his depth here, and he will probably surprise some of you as well. Okay, Henrique Dubugras, CEO of Brex. Here we go. Links: The tech industry moved fast and broke its most prestigious bank  Liz Lopatto - The Verge  A fintech CEO is trying to raise more than $1 billion to fund bridge loans for startups impacted by the Silicon Valley Bank collapse Robinhood Users Say The Trading App Won’t Cash In Their Profitable Bets Against Silicon Valley Bank  What Is A Neobank? – Forbes Advisor   Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23433504  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chris Cocks is the CEO of Hasbro, a company that just turned 100 this year. Hasbro is a huge company, making everything from Transformers to Lincoln Logs to My Little Pony and Monopoly. It also makes Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons & Dragons, which are massive and growing businesses. Chris was the head of that division, called Wizards of the Coast, before he became the CEO of Hasbro overall last year. Since then, he’s started the process of restructuring the company, which is pure Decoder bait.  He’s also dealt with some crises: He’s fended off an activist investor that wanted him to spin Wizards of the Coast out into a new company. The Magic community was upset that too many card sets were being released, including rare collector cards that could suddenly be bought by anybody who had enough money. Then, an attempt to change the open gaming license for Dungeons & Dragons led to a fan backlash, and Hasbro walked the entire plan back. We talked about these challenges, how he handled them, and what it means for toys and games to have such passionate fandoms. It really changes how Hasbro operates. He’s also selling off part of eOne, the company’s TV and film production company — we get into why and how he decided to do that. Chris is a lifelong gamer — you’ll hear him talk about that history several times. And he’s also keenly aware that toys and games have become an adults’ market as much as a kids’ one, and that changes the company’s business strategy. This is really a remarkable conversation: toys are a big, complex business. Links: Chris Cocks Is Hasbro’s Gamer in Chief Chris Cocks Statement at Hasbro Investor Day Hasbro strongly refutes claims it is ‘destroying’ Magic: The Gathering Dungeons & Dragons finally addresses its new Open Gaming License Hasbro CEO on D&D fiasco: ‘We misfired’ on the OGL but have ‘since course corrected’ Magic: The Gathering Becomes a Billion-Dollar Brand for Toymaker Hasbro Hasbro Puts Newly Acquired TV Brand Entertainment One (eOne) Back Up For Sale Transcript: Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Hadley Robinson and it was edited by Amanda Rose Smith. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I’m talking to Mastodon CEO Eugen Rochko. Mastodon is the open-source, decentralized competitor to Twitter, and it’s where a lot of Twitter users have gone in this, our post-Elon era. The idea is that you don’t join a single platform that one company controls, you join a server, and that server can show you content from users across the entire network. If you decide you don’t like the people who run your server, or you think they’re moderating content too strictly, you can leave, and take your followers and social graph with you. Think about it like email and you’ll get it – if you don’t like Gmail, you can switch to something else, but you don’t have to quit email entirely as a concept. Now if you are like me, you hear the words open-source and decentralized, and then the word CEO, and you think – wait, why does the decentralized open standard have a CEO? The whole point is that no single person or company is in charge, right? Well, welcome to the wild world of open-source governance. It’s a riot, my friends – you’re going to hear Eugen and I say the phrase benevolent dictator for life in dead seriousness, because that’s how a lot of these projects are run. Of course, we also talk about money, and structure – Mastodon doesn’t make a lot of money, and Eugen is figuring out how to build a structure that scale past just a handful of people — but keep that in mind, actually. This tiny mostly volunteer labor of love might very well be the future of social networking, and, if you believe the hype about ActivityPub, might have some part in the future of the web. That’s pretty exciting, even if things are seem a little messy in the moment. Links: More than two million users have flocked to Mastodon since Elon Musk took over Twitter  A beginner’s guide to Mastodon, the hot new open-source Twitter clone Elon Musk Benevolent dictator for life Mastodon Social Eugen Rochko (@Gargron@mastodon.social) XKCD    Erase browser history: can AI reset the browser battle? Twitter alternatives for the Musk-averse We tried to run a social media site and it was awful Denial-of-service attack Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23422689  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Meredith Kopit Levien is the CEO of The New York Times, which is perhaps the most famous journalism organization in the world, and certainly one of America’s most complicated companies. The Times is 172 years old, and has only recently become a force on the internet. It’s hard to remember, but back in 2014 and ‘15, people thought the Times was doomed — that it would be replaced by BuzzFeed and Vice and Vox. Instead, the company has undergone a radical and sometimes painful public transformation, and emerged as something closer to Netflix or Spotify – a subscription business with a huge investment in product and engineering.  Meredith has led a lot of that change, and in particular, she’s led the charge in turning a Times subscription into much more than paying for news – NYT Cooking and Games are hit apps, and of course she bought Wordle last year in a bit of a coup. We talked about that structure, how Meredith intends to appeal to a broader audience with all those products when the country is basically divided in half politically and one half doesn’t care for the Times at all, and about platforms and growth. And like all media organizations, the Times has a complex relationship with Google, so we talked about that, too. Links: Our Strategy | The New York Times Company NYT CEO outlines plans to reach 15 million subscribers by 2027 Why the New York Times is buying the Athletic Wordle has been bought by The New York Times, will ‘initially’ remain free for everyone to play  The Economics at the Heart of the Times Union Standoff  'Unstoppable innovator': The meteoric rise of Meredith Kopit Levien, the next New York Times CEO Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23416720 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Hadley Robinson and it was edited by Amanda Rose Smith The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This special episode dives deep on Taylor Swift, Ticketmaster, and how a handful of policy changes in the 1980s led to one firm so thoroughly dominating the live events business in the United States that Congress held a hearing in 2023, because Taylor Swift fans were so upset about antitrust law. That sentence is wild. We’re going to unpack all of this with the help of some experts. Here we go. Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23409098 Credits: Thanks so much to everyone who talked to us and shared their valuable insights for this episode including Dean Budnik, Florian Ederer, Russ Tannen, and Sandeep Vaheesan. And special thanks to Makena Kelly and Jake Kastrenakes.  This episode was written and reported by Jackie McDermott and Owen Grove. It was produced by Jackie McDermott, Owen Grove, and Creighton DeSimone with help from Jasmine Lewis. It was edited by Callie Wright.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this installment of our Centennial Series on companies that are over 100 years old, we are talking to Barnes & Noble CEO James Daunt. The last few decades have thrown some hurdles in Barnes & Noble’s way, however. Far from being the monster that inspired the plot of the movie You’ve Got Mail, it’s had to face down a new Goliath called Amazon and the general decline of big-box retail stores. After years of closures and declining revenues, Barnes & Noble was bought out by activist investors in 2019, who installed Daunt as CEO, and he’s managed to turn things around by doing two main things.  First, he has decentralized operations of the stores, letting each store act like a local bookshop and giving his booksellers more control over what titles they sell and display. He immediately ended a system that allowed publishers to pay for special placement in bookstores, which he said corrupted the entire system in service of short-term profits. Second, he’s using Barnes & Noble’s scale to build a purchasing and distribution pipeline that serves as the rest of the book industry’s competitor to Amazon.  We get into all of it — the culture wars, J.K. Rowling, book ban bills in states across the country, and how Barnes & Noble went from being the bully on the block to competing with Amazon. Links Hedge Fund Buys Barnes & Noble Can Britain’s Top Bookseller Save Barnes & Noble? - The New York Times How Barnes & Noble transformed its brand from corporate bully to lovable neighborhood bookstore Barnes & Noble to expand, marking a new chapter for private equity #BookTok: Is TikTok changing the publishing industry?  How book lovers on TikTok are changing the publishing industry Barnes & Noble History Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23406145 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Hadley Robinson and it was edited by Jackson Bierfeldt.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Gustav Söderström has worked at Spotify for a long time; his first big project was leading the launch of its mobile app back in 2009. That makes him the perfect company leader to talk to about Spotify’s recent redesign, which introduces a visual, TikTok-like feed for discovering new content on the app’s homepage. As his boss CEO Daniel Ek put it last week, it’s “the biggest change Spotify has undergone since we introduced mobile.” With the title of co-president and chief product and technology officer, Söderström is responsible for not only how Spotify looks and feels but also all the AI work happening behind the scenes to power its increasingly important recommendations. According to Söderström, it turns out that improving those recommendations is actually at the heart of the big redesign. “I think companies that don’t have an efficient user interface for a machine learning world are not going to be able to leverage machine learning,” he told Alex Heath on the newest episode of Decoder. Links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napster Spotify is laying off 6 percent of its global workforce, CEO announces Spotify’s new design turns your music and podcasts into a TikTok feed Alex Heath's Tweet Functional versus Unit Organizations Two-Pizza Teams Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23402123 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Intro: Steve Bandrowczak, the CEO of Xerox, an iconic company that got started all the way back in 1906 as a manufacturer of photo paper and is, of course, best known for pioneering the copy machine. Here in 2023, Xerox has moved well beyond paper. It now works with companies large and small to provide IT services: it optimizes workflows, manages data, automates parts of businesses, and yes, still fixes the printers. Steve insists there’s still a lot in the world to print, and selling and servicing printers continues to be where Xerox begins its relationships with most customers. And fixing printers is getting high tech: Steve is excited about his new AR app that walks you through getting the copy machine working again so you don’t have to wait for a technician to come fix it.  We also talked about the future of Xerox’s legendary Palo Alto Research Center, or PARC, whether Xerox wants more consolidation, and we even spitball some ideas about how to get Gen Z excited about printers.  Links: John Visentin, Xerox C.E.O., Dies at 59 Xerox Ousts CEO In Deal With Icahn Carl Icahn Makes Case for Xerox-HP Union Xerox abandons $35 billion hostile bid for HP Apple Lisa: the ‘OK’ Computer About PARC, a Xerox Company Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23394156 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Hadley Robinson and it was edited by Jackson Bierfeldt.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Pali Bhat joined Reddit from Google about a year ago — he’s actually Reddit’s first-ever chief product officer, which is pretty surprising considering that Reddit is a series of product experiences: the reading experience, the writing experience, and importantly, the moderation experience. One thing we always say on Decoder is that the real product of any social network is content moderation, and Reddit is maybe the best example of that: every subreddit is shaped by volunteer moderators who use the tools Reddit builds for them. So Pali has a big job bringing all these products together and making them better, all while trying to grow Reddit as a platform. This was a really deep conversation, and it touched on a lot of big Decoder themes. I think you’re going to like it. Okay, Pali Bhat, the chief product officer of Reddit. Here we go. Links: New features aimed at making Reddit easier to use: an update on our product priorities focussed on simplification Reddit’s new features include a TikTok-style video feed Reddit is bringing back r/Place, its April Fools’ Day art experiment How to buy a social network, with Tumblr CEO Matt Mullenweg Microsoft thinks AI can beat Google at search — CEO Satya Nadella explains why AI-generated fiction is flooding literary magazines — but not fooling anyone Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23390325 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We taped this episode live at Hot Pod Summit. That’s our conference for the podcast industry. We have a whole newsletter for podcasters. It’s called Hot Pod, written by our very own Ariel Shapiro. Hot Pod Summit is where we bring that community of creators, trendsetters and decision-makers together to explore the latest developments in podcasting, audiobooks, and more. It was a packed house and a great time. We ended the day by recording our first-ever live Decoder with Conal Byrne, CEO of iHeartMedia’s digital audio group. Conal oversees podcasting at a giant radio company, and his group accounts for a quarter of iHeart’s revenue, which was $1 billion last quarter alone. His team makes some of the biggest podcasts around, with huge talent like Will Ferrell, Shonda Rhimes, and Charlamagne tha God, who you’ll hear Conal talk about quite a lot. Conal and iHeart Digital earned that success by doing some unconventional things. Whereas other big podcasting players like Spotify and Apple have tried to boost revenue through subscriptions or platform exclusivity, Conal shunned those approaches and said he’s going for big audience reach, made possible in part by his ability to run ads and even shows on iHeart’s huge network of traditional radio stations. But that maverick approach has included some controversial steps as well. Last year, Verge alumni and Bloomberg reporter Ashley Carman reported that iHeart worked with a firm called Jun Group to essentially buy podcast downloads through video games. To many in the industry, that seemed pretty disingenuous. So of course I asked Conal about that and lots more. He was a great guest, super game to answer the questions, especially in front of a live audience. Links: iHeartMedia Buys Stuff Media for $55 Million - WSJ  Podcasters Are Buying Millions of Listeners Through Mobile-Game Ads  Cost Per Thousand (CPM) Definition and Its Role in Marketing Spotify reportedly paid $200 million for Joe Rogan’s podcast - The Verge Chris Dixon thinks web3 is the future of the internet — is it? - Decoder, The Verge Decoder with Nilay Patel (@decoderpod) Official | TikTok   Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23381445 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to Decoder. I’m Nilay Patel, editor in chief of The Verge, and Decoder is my show about big ideas, and other problems.  Today, I'm talking to Mitchell Baker, the chairwoman and CEO of Mozilla, the organization behind the Firefox browser, the Thunderbird email client, the Pocket newsreader, and a bunch of other interesting internet tools. Now as you all know, Decoder is secretly a podcast about org charts – maybe not so secretly, and Mozilla’s structure is really interesting. Mozilla itself is a nonprofit foundation, but it contains within it something called the Mozilla Corporation, which actually makes Firefox and the rest. Mitchell is the chairwoman of the foundation, and the CEO of the corporation. And the Mozilla Corporation, which they charmingly call MoCo, can make a profit - or it can least be taxed, which is an important distinction you’ll hear Mitchell talk about. I bring this up because Mozilla has been around since 1994 in a variety of structures and business models – it started as a company called Netscape, and Mitchell was one of the first employees in the legal department. Netscape’s product was Netscape Navigator, the first commercial web browser, which of course changed the consumer internet and scared Microsoft so much it did a bunch of anticompetitive things that led to the famous antitrust case. In the meantime, Netscape got sold to AOL, and along the way Mitchell led the somewhat renegade Mozilla Project inside the company which eventually lead to Mozilla the non-profit foundation that eventually launched Firefox. It’s a lot! But now Mitchell is trying to live up to Mozilla’s nonprofit ideals of protecting the open internet while still trying to compete and cooperate with tech giants like Apple and Google. And these are complicated relationships: Google still accounts for a huge percentage of Mozilla’s revenue – it pays hundreds of millions of dollars to be the default search engine in Firefox. And Apple restricts what browser engines can run on the iPhone – Firefox Focus on the iPhone is still running Apple’s webkit engine, something that regulators, particularly in Europe want to change.   On top of all that, some big foundational pieces of the web are changing: Microsoft is aggressively rolling out its chatGPT-powered Bing search engine in an effort to displace Google and get people to switch to the Edge browser, and Twitter’s implosion means that Mitchell sees Mastodon as one of Mozilla’s next big opportunities.  So how does Mozilla get through this period of change while staying true to itself? And will anyone actually switch browsers again? Turns out – it might be easier to get people to switch on phones, than on desktops. That’s Mozilla’s belief, anyway. Links: Netscape - Wikipedia The State of Mozilla: 2021 — 2022 Annual Report The future of computers is only $4 away, with Raspberry Pi CEO Eben Upton Firefox drops Google as default search engine, signs five-year deal with Yahoo Microsoft thinks AI can beat Google at search — CEO Satya Nadella explains why Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI A beginner’s guide to Mastodon, the hot new open-source Twitter clone Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23362385 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m coming to you from Microsoft’s campus in Redmond, where just a few hours ago, Microsoft announced that the next version of the Bing search engine would be powered by OpenAI, the company that makes ChatGPT. There’s also a new version of the Edge web browser with OpenAI chat tech in a window that can help you browse and understand web pages.  The in-depth presentation showed how OpenAI running in Bing and Edge could radically increase your productivity. They demo’d it making a travel itinerary, posting to LinkedIn, and rewriting code to work in a different programming language. After the presentation, I was able to get some time with Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella. Nadella has been very bullish on AI. He’s previously talked about AI as the next major computing platform. I wanted to talk about this next step in AI, the partnership with OpenAI, and why he thought now was the best time to go after Google search. This is a short interview, but it’s a good one. Okay, Satya Nadella, CEO of Microsoft. Here we go. Watch this interview as a video Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI All the news from Microsoft’s February AI event Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23354035 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today's episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Jackie McDermott, Vjeran Pavic and Becca Farsace and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

HBO started as an experiment. It was a way to get people to switch from getting TV over broadcast antennas to cable by offering events you’d otherwise need tickets to see: boxing, plays, movies. That’s where the name Home Box Office comes from. But it grew from there in surprising ways: HBO was a major innovator in satellite distribution, in working with cable operators around the country, and of course in programming. The company’s taste and style has influenced and shaped culture for a generation now. And importantly, HBO did it without any real data: the cable companies owned all the subscribers, so HBO made decisions through instinct and experience. The amazing thing about HBO is that it has stayed true to itself through an absolutely tumultuous set of ownership changes and strategy shifts. If you’re a Decoder listener you know about the chaos of AT&T and HBO Max and the sale to Discovery to create Warner Brothers Discovery, but it’s so much twistier than that. I talked through all of those twists with Felix Gillette and John Koblin, authors of the terrific book It’s Not TV: The Spectacular Rise, Revolution, and Future of HBO. Felix and John also peeled back the curtain on your favorite HBO shows from Sex and the City to Game of Thrones. Before we get into the episode, I have to do our usual set of disclosures: I’m a Netflix executive producer. We made a Netflix show called The Future Of. You should watch it. I’m hopelessly biased in favor of the show we made. Also, Vox Media has a minority investment from Comcast. They don’t like me very much. And I worked at AOL Time Warner. I quit to start The Verge.  Ok that’s that. Let’s get into the interview—it’s a good one. Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23352141 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A few weeks ago, President Biden was in the Netherlands, where he asked the Dutch government to restrict export from a company called ASML to China. ASML is the only company in the world that makes a specific machine needed to make the most advanced chips. Apple couldn’t make iPhone chips without this one machine from the Netherlands’ biggest company. ASML doesn’t just shape the Dutch economy—it shapes the entire world economy. How did that happen? Chris Miller, Tufts professor and author of Chip War: The Fight For The World’s Most Critical Technology walked me through a lot of this, along with some deep dives into geopolitics and the absolutely fascinating chip manufacturing process. This one has everything: foreign policy, high powered lasers, hotshot executives, monopolies, the fundamental limits of physics, and, of course, Texas. Here we go. Links: US issues sweeping restrictions on chip sales to China Japan and the Netherlands join US with tough chip controls on China Pat Gelsinger came back to turn Intel around — here’s how it’s going Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23342471 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I have this theory that music is usually about five years ahead of the rest of media in terms of its relationship to tech—whether that’s new formats based on new tech, like vinyl to CDs; new business models like streaming; or simply being disrupted by new kinds of artists who use new forms of promotion like TikTok in unexpected ways. I’ve always thought that if you can wrap your head around what’s happening to the music industry, you can pretty much see the future of TV or movies or the news or whatever it is, because the music industry just moves that fast. I was talking about this with my friend Charlie Harding, the co-host of Switched on Pop, and he said that he thinks the upcoming Taylor Swift Eras Tour is itself the end of an era in music — that the age of cheap streaming services is coming to an inevitable conclusion, and that something has to change in order for industry to sustain itself in the future.  So, in this episode, Charlie and I walk through a brief history of the music business—which, despite its ever-changing business models, is permanently trying to find something to sell you for $20 whether that’s the music itself, all-access streaming, merch, and even NFTs—using Taylor Swift as a case study. We map her big moves against the business of music over time to try to see if this really is the end of an era. And maybe more importantly, to try and figure out if the music industry can sustain and support artists who are not Taylor Swift, because streaming, all by itself, definitely cannot. Links: Switched on Pop Charlie’s first appearance on Decoder: Good 4 who? How music copyright has gone too far - The Verge  Why Amazon VP Steve Boom just made the entire music catalog free with Prime - The Verge  Spotify launching in the US at 8AM tomorrow, open to all pre-registered users - The Verge Metallica sued Napster 15 years ago today - The Verge Taylor Swift calls Apple Music free trial 'shocking, disappointing' in open letter - The Verge Taylor Swift versus Ticketmaster: the latest on the tour that may break up a giant - The Verge The DOJ has reportedly opened an antitrust investigation into Ticketmaster's owner      How fandom built the internet as we know it, with Kaitlyn Tiffany - The Verge Steve Aoki on the blockchain, the metaverse, and the business of music - The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23322720 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Hadley Robinson, Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. Our Sr. Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Last year I spoke with Cory Doctorow and Rebecca Giblin about their new book, Chokepoint Capitalism. It’s a book about artists and technology and platforms, and how different kinds of distribution and creations tools create chokepoints for different companies to capture value that might otherwise go to artists and creators.. In other words, it’s a lot of Decoder stuff. As we were prepping this episode, the Decoder team realized it previews a lot of things we’re going to talk about in 2023: antitrust law. Ticketmaster. Spotify and the future of the music industry. Amazon and the book industry. And, of course, being a creator trying to make a living on all these platforms. This episode is longer than normal, but it was a really great conversation and I'm glad we are sharing it with you. Links: What is Mixer, Ninja’s new exclusive streaming home? Ninja returns to Twitch This was Sony Music's contract with Spotify Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23311918 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tomer Cohen is the chief product officer at LinkedIn, and actually, I talked to Tomer twice. Here’s a little secret about Decoder: we do the interviews, and then often, the guest and I just keep chatting for a while. So after my first interview with Tomer, we were hanging out, talking about the perpetual battles between engineers, product managers, and designers. And he said something that completely jumped out at me: “We might be wrong, but we’re not fucking confused.”  This isn’t a totally new line — it’s been floating around for a while, you can Google it — but you know I love an f-bomb, and honestly, it’s one of the most simple and clarifying things a manager can say, especially when managing across large teams. So I asked Tomer to come back and really dig in on that idea. On top of that, we’ve been talking a lot about running social networks lately, and LinkedIn is a fascinating social network because it doesn’t have the same engagement-based success metrics as other social platforms like Twitter and Instagram. Tomer doesn’t care about time spent on LinkedIn; the platform is designed to be successful when people get new jobs. That means his ideas for features and user experiences are just really different. Links: Employment Situation Summary (Jobs Report) December Workforce Report 2022 (LinkedIn) Vision to values flowchart ChatGPT proves AI is finally mainstream — and things are only going to get weirder LinkedIn buys California-based SaaS learning platform How big companies kill ideas — and how to fight back, with Tony Fadell RAPID decision making Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23281360  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We have to talk about Twitter, right? Elon Musk bought it. He’s making all these changes, and he’s realizing that content moderation decisions are quite complicated, especially when the stakes are high. But talking about Twitter in a vacuum seems wrong. There are lots of other social networks and community-based products, and they all have basically the same problems: some technical (you have to run the service), some political (you have to comply with various laws and platform regulations around the world), and some social (you have to get millions of users to post for free while making sure what they post is good stuff and not bad stuff). So, we’re doing something a little different this week. First, I’m talking to Matt Mullenweg, who is the CEO of Automattic, which owns WordPress, the blog hosting platform, and Tumblr, the social network, which he purchased from Verizon in 2019. Then, Verge deputy editor Alex Heath and I are going to break down a bunch of what Matt told me and apply it to Twitter to see what we can learn. Okay, Matt Mullenweg, CEO of Tumblr, followed by Alex Heath. Here we go. Links: How WordPress and Tumblr are keeping the internet weird GPL - General Public License Verizon is selling Tumblr to WordPress’ owner Kanye West suspended from Twitter after posting a swastika ‘Martin Scorsese’s lost film’ Goncharov (1973), explained Yahoo acquires Tumblr in $1.1 billion cash deal, promises 'not to screw it up' Verizon is selling Tumblr to WordPress’ owner Turnaround Definition Welcome to Tumblr. Now Go Away. Work With Us / Twitter – Automattic Tumblr will sell you two useless blue check marks for $8 Elon Musk is laying off even more Twitter workers Welcome to hell, Elon Why “Go Nuts, Show Nuts” Doesn't Work in 2022 How America turned against the First Amendment  About – SHOSHANA ZUBOFF A Framework for Moderation First Amendment - Freedom of Religion, Speech, Press, Assembly, and Petition | Constitution Center America’s Favorite Flimsy Pretext for Limiting Free Speech  Brandenburg v. Ohio Elon Musk says Tim Cook told him Apple ‘never considered’ removing Twitter - The Verge The Twitter Files - Matt Taibbi Elon Musk’s promised Twitter exposé on the Hunter Biden story is a flop that doxxed multiple people Twitter Blue is back, letting you buy a blue checkmark again Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23270126 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we need to talk about Bob. Two Bobs, actually: Bob Iger, the former and now current CEO of Disney, and Bob Chapek, the man Iger handpicked as his replacement, who flamed out and was fired by the board, and then, on November 20th, was replaced by Bob Iger. Bobs, man. The heart of this whole thing is total Decoder bait. It’s a story about how to structure a company like Disney. Then you add in the complexity of the shift to streaming, the future of TV and movies generally, and the gigantic reputation of a character like Bob Iger, who many people think could plausibly run for president. There’s just a lot going on here. Whenever I need to talk Disney, media, and Bobs, I call one person: Julia Alexander, director of strategy at Parrot Analytics and a former reporter at The Verge. Julia pays a lot of attention to the streaming giants, she’s sourced inside all the companies battling for our attention, and she has a lot to say about the Bobs. Links: Bob Iger steps back in as Disney CEO, replacing Bob Chapek  Reed Hastings on Twitter Disney+ launch lineup: Every movie and TV show available to stream on day one - The Verge Bob Iger steps down as Disney CEO, replaced by Bob Chapek - The Verge Disney streaming chief Kevin Mayer resigns to become TikTok CEO - The Verge Disney Plus surpasses 100 million subscribers - The Verge Meta announces huge job cuts affecting 11,000 employees - The Verge Netflix's $6.99 per month ad tier is now live Stranger Things - The Verge Disney’s major reorganization is good news for anyone who loves Disney Plus - The Verge Functional Structure: Advantages and Disadvantages | Indeed.com Pros and Cons of Implementing a Divisional Structure | Indeed.com Disney Proposal to Restructure, on McKinsey’s Advice, Triggered Uproar From Creative Executives - WSJ Disney Shows the Limits of Streaming - WSJ Disney Erases Almost All Its Pandemic Gains After Earnings Miss ‘Strange World’: Beautiful to look at, but not much below the surface - The Washington Post Watch The Future Of | Netflix Official Site Kevin Mayer quits as TikTok CEO due to ongoing political turmoil - The Verge Kevin Mayer Says His Firm Is In Deal Mode After Buying Reese Witherspoon's Hello Sunshine WarnerMedia CEO Jason Kilar announces exit as Discovery deal nears close - The Verge  Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23259187 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bose is one of the most recognizable audio brands in the world: it was famous for the Wave radio in the 80s, it invented noise cancellation, you can see its logo on NFL sidelines every Sunday, and of course there are the popular consumer products like the QuietComfort headphones that reviewers like Chris Welch here at The Verge rate as some of the best in the game. Bose is in tons of cars as well: audio systems in GM, Honda, Hyundai, Porsche, and more are developed and tuned by Bose. Bose was founded in 1964 by Dr. Amar Bose, who donated a majority of the shares of the company to MIT, where he was a professor. That means to this day, Bose is a private company with no pressure to go public. However, Bose still has to compete against big tech in talent, products, and compatibility. So today I’m talking to Bose CEO Lila Snyder about Bose’s dependence on platform vendors like Apple and Google, how she thinks about standards like Bluetooth, and where she thinks she can compete and win against AirPods and other products that get preferential treatment on phones. Links: Bose QuietComfort Earbuds II review: noise cancellation domination How Amar Bose used research to build better speakers List of Bose shelf stereos Hearing Aids | FDA Digital signal processor Functional organization Bose names its first female CEO as wait continues for new products Amar Bose ’51 makes stock donation to MIT Meta announces huge job cuts affecting 11,000 employees Amazon mass layoffs will reportedly ax 10,000 people this week Elon Musk demands Twitter employees commit to ‘extremely hardcore’ culture or leave The iPhone 7 has no headphone jack Bluetooth Special Interest Group Qualcomm Partners with Meta and Bose Bose gets into hearing aid business with new FDA-cleared SoundControl hearing aids Over-the-counter hearing aids could blur the line with headphones New Bose-Lexie Hearing Aid to Enter the Over-the-Counter Market Lexie Partners with Bose to Offer Lexie B1 Powered by Bose Hearing Aids Bose Frames Tempo review: the specs to beat Bose discontinues its niche Sport Open Earbuds BMW starts selling heated seat subscriptions for $18 a month Seven CEOs and one secretary of transportation on the future of cars Why Amazon VP Steve Boom just made the entire music catalog free with Prime                  Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23246668  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chris Licht faces an uphill battle at CNN. He got the CEO gig in the midst of a prickly merger between Warner Bros. and Discovery and right after the shocking exit of beloved long-time boss, Jeff Zucker. In his first six months, he’s shut down CNN+, ousted Brian Stelter, and shuffled anchors around, including Don Lemon and Jake Tapper. This week, the network chief held an internal town hall meeting where he faced a staff of thousands and discussed upcoming layoffs. Shortly afterwards, he sat down with Kara — who grilled him, of course. She asks Licht whether he has any real actual power or if he’s simply executing orders from Warner Bros. Discovery CEO David Zaslav — who is in search of cuts, as the company stares down the barrel at $50 billion in debt — and billionaire board member, John Malone, who has said he’d like to see more “centrist” programming from CNN. They discuss Licht’s vision for the newsroom, his plan to build trust with journalists who fear losing jobs, and how CNN will cover Donald Trump during the 2024 election. Before the interview, Kara and Nayeema discuss the challenges facing journalism in an era of disinformation. Stay tuned for Kara’s closing rant on “citizen journalism” and Elon’s latest broadside against the press. You can find Kara and Nayeema on Twitter @karaswisher and @nayeema. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Phil Spencer, CEO of Microsoft Gaming, is in charge of Xbox and all the game studios that Microsoft has acquired over the years. Phil came to talk to us hours before the European Commission announced an in-depth investigation into Microsoft’s proposed 68.7 billion dollar acquisition of Activision Blizzard, which makes the enormous Call of Duty series, as well as Candy Crush on phones.  So I had the chance to ask Phil: Will he make the concessions that regulators want in order to close this deal? And is the deal really just about Call of Duty, or something else? Is Microsoft committed to keep Call of Duty available on Playstation? Phil’s a candid guy. He’s been on Decoder before. I always enjoy talking to him, and this was a fun one. Links: Microsoft’s Phil Spencer on the new Xbox launch - The Verge Microsoft to acquire Activision Blizzard for $68.7 billion - The Verge Why Microsoft bought Bethesda for $7.5 billion Microsoft announces big, multistudio push to create more Xbox exclusives Bethesda’s Starfield and Redfall have been delayed to 2023 Tech antitrust pioneer Lina Khan will officially lead the FTC Sony says Microsoft’s Call of Duty offer was ‘inadequate on many levels’ Microsoft: Xbox game streaming console is ‘years away' This is Microsoft’s Xbox game streaming device Google is shutting down Stadia in January 2023 - The Verge Razer’s Edge is one sharp-looking cloud gaming Android handheld Logitech G Cloud Gaming Handheld review: terminally online Steam Deck review: it’s not ready Steam Deck, one month later Tech Leaders Discuss the Metaverse’s Future | WSJ Tech Live 2022 Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella on the business of Windows Microsoft partners with Meta to bring Teams, Office, Windows, and Xbox to VR EU opens ‘in-depth investigation’ into Microsoft’s Activision Blizzard acquisition Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23223230 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dylan Field is the co-founder and CEO of Figma, which makes a very popular design tool that allows designers and their collaborators to all work together right in a web browser. You know how multiple people can edit together in Google Docs? Figma is that for design work. We just redesigned The Verge; we used Figma extensively throughout that process. So for years, people have been waiting on the inevitable Figma vs. Adobe standoff since Figma was such a clear upstart competitor to Photoshop and Illustrator and the rest. Well, buckle up because in September, Adobe announced that it was buying Figma for $20 billion. Figma is going to remain independent inside Adobe, but you know, it’s a little weird. So I wanted to talk to Dylan about the deal, why he’s doing it, how he made the decision to sell, and what things he can do as part of Adobe that he couldn’t do as an independent company. Dylan’s also a pretty expansive thinker, so after we talked about his company getting the “fuck you” money from Adobe, we talked about making VR Figma for the metaverse and AGI, which is artificial general intelligence, or the kind of AI that can fully think for itself. This episode takes a turn. I think you’re going to like it. Okay, Dylan Field, CEO of Figma. Here we go. Links: Welcome to the new Verge Adobe to acquire Figma in a deal worth $20 billion A New Collaboration with Adobe Designers worry Adobe won't let Figma flourish WebGL - Wikipedia How big companies kill ideas — and how to fight back, with Tony Fadell - Decoder Dylan Field on Twitter: "Our goal is to be Figma not Adobe" College Dropout Turns Thiel Fellowship Into a $2 Billion Figma Fortune Generative adversarial network (GAN) - Wikipedia       GPT-3 - Wikipedia Is VR the next frontier in fitness? - Decoder Artificial general intelligence - Wikipedia   Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23209862 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Jackson Bierfeldt. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is currently short a commissioner, and the Biden Administration and Senate Democrats just can't seem to get that seat filled despite having nominated an amazingly qualified person. Her name is Gigi Sohn. The inability to get Gigi confirmed at the FCC has left the commission deadlocked with two Democrats and two Republicans. That means the commission in charge of regulating all telecom in the United States, including how you get your internet service, is unable to get much done. The Biden administration can't accomplish some of its biggest policy priorities like rural broadband and restoring net neutrality. President Biden first nominated Gigi Sohn to the FCC over a year ago, but the full Senate vote to confirm her just hasn't happened. We’ve been digging into the story for a few months now, trying to figure out what's going on here, and we found a simple but really frustrating answer… Links: Gigi Sohn Author Profile - The Verge  Comcast trying to “torpedo” Biden FCC pick Gigi Sohn, advocacy group says The Slime Machine Targeting Dozens of Biden Nominees Attempted acquisition of Tribune Media by Sinclair Broadcast Group The Vergecast: Net neutrality was repealed a year ago. Gigi Sohn explains what’s happened since  Confirmation Hearing for FCC and Commerce Department Nominees Biden signs $280 billion CHIPS and Science Act  Biden Signs Bill to Help Veterans Exposed to Toxic Burn Pits With the Inflation Reduction Act, the US brings climate goals within reach  Federal Communications Commission v. Pacifica Foundation  Federal Communications Commission v. Pacifica Foundation  A Media Censor for the FCC?  Hyperpartisan Gigi Sohn Doesn’t Belong at the FCC Gigi Sohn and the Police Gigi Sohn Facebook Tweet Tech antitrust pioneer Lina Khan will officially lead the FTC Confirmation Hearing For FCC Nominee FCC Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel on staying connected during a pandemic Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23201559 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was written and reported by Jackie McDermott. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. Additional mixing by Andrew Marino. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I love covering the music industry, but over the past 10 years I’ve found that it’s one of the most challenging things to make accessible to a wide audience. See, my theory is that the music industry is like five years ahead of everything else when it comes to being disrupted by tech: whatever happens to the music industry because of technology eventually happens to everything else. Today I'm talking to Steve Boom, the VP of Amazon Music. Amazon just announced that they are upgrading the music service that Prime members get as part of their subscription. Starting today, one of the benefits for Amazon Prime members is that you now get access to the entire Amazon Music catalog, about 100 million songs, to play in shuffle mode. That service used to only contain 2 million songs. And they are removing ads from a large selection of podcasts including the entire Wondery catalog. I wanted to ask Steve: what’s it like to negotiate with the record labels for a service like this? What can streaming services do to make artists more money? And where do podcasts fit into the overall strategy? Amazon and Spotify both spend a lot of money buying podcast studios. Is it paying off? Links: Amazon buys Wondery, setting itself up to compete against Spotify for podcast domination Apple’s Anti-Competitive Behavior Hurts Everyone—Including Audiobook Listeners, Publishers, and Authors Why Rdio died Why it makes sense for Amazon to buy Twitch Amazon Launches Audio App Amp Combining Music and Live Conversation  The days of cheap music streaming may be numbered Why did Jack Dorsey’s Square buy Tidal, Jay-Z’s failed music service? Amazon Music rolls out a lossless streaming tier that Spotify and Apple can’t match How Amazon runs Alexa, with Dave Limp Apple’s new podcast charts show Amazon at the top Spotify gets serious about podcasts with two acquisitions  Vox Media acquires Cafe Studios, Preet Bharara’s podcast-first company Vox Media Acquires Criminal Productions, Leading Narrative Podcast Studio Time to Play Fair - Spotify Apple’s New App Store Rules a Big Boon for Netflix, Hulu & Co. MusiCares Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23197384 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Steve Cagle is the CEO of Clearwater Compliance, which is a cybersecurity firm focused on the healthcare industry. Basically, they lock down hospital computer systems, which contain a huge amount of personal data, and are so mission critical that ransomware attackers know that hospitals are more likely to just pay up. If the cryptocurrency explosion has accomplished anything, it’s making ransomware attacks easier and more lucrative for bad guys. Steve told me there’s so much personal information in a hospital system that a single patient’s record can sell for a huge premium over somthing like a credit card number. And we talked about amount of regulation needed to secure that data and that some insurance providers require hospitals to have a minimum level of security, or they won't be covered. It's a fascinating one. Links: Cyber Security Week 2022 Penetration test Cyberattack delays patient care at major US hospital chain Average Healthcare Data Breach Costs Surpass $10M, IBM Finds Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23175031 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott. Research by Liz Lian and it was edited by Jackson Bierfeldt. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I'm talking to Prashanth Chandrasekar the CEO of Stack Overflow – a highly specialized kind of social network, with a really unique business model. If you don't know Stack Overflow is a major part of the modern software development landscape: it’s where developers come together, ask questions, and get answers about how to build software, including actual code they can use in their own projects. It’s basically a huge question and answer forum. More than 100 million people visit Stack Overflow every single month. The company also sells Stack Overflow as an internal forum tool that big companies can use for their own teams: Microsoft, Google, Logitech—you name it, they’re using Stack Overflow to coordinate conversations between their engineers. The platform has a long reputation of elitism; Prashanth himself is a developer and he told me his own first experience on Stack Overflow was a negative one. In fact, he took over as CEO about three years ago, after a pretty serious moderation controversy that saw several longtime Stack Overflow moderators quit. I wanted to talk to Prashanth about how it works, how the company makes money, and how to grow such a specialized user base while still being welcoming to new people. Links: Software-as-a-Service (SaaS) Stack Overflow Sold to Tech Giant Prosus for $1.8 Billion Stack Overflow helps millions of developers do their jobs every single day. Its new CEO says the next stage of its growth is selling to businesses. Big Tech's hiring freeze unlocks rich talent pool for U.S. startups Stack Overflow raises $85M in Series E funding to further accelerate SaaS business Chris Dixon thinks web3 is the future of the internet — is it? Stack Overflow Has a New Code of Conduct: You Must 'Be Nice' Code of Conduct - Stack Overflow Eight great sites that offer online classes The other side of Stack Overflow content moderation Everything you need to know about Section 230 Transcript:  https://www.theverge.com/e/23185361 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Meredith Whittaker is the president of Signal, the popular messaging app that offers encrypted communication. You might recognize Meredith’s name from 2018 when she was an AI researcher at Google and one of the organizers of the Google walkout. Now she’s at Signal, which is a little different than the usual tech company: it’s operated by a nonprofit foundation and prides itself on collecting as little data as possible. But messaging apps are a complicated business. Governments around the world really dislike encrypted messaging and often push companies to put in backdoors for surveillance and law enforcement because criminals use encrypted messaging for all sorts of deeply evil things. But there’s no half step to breaking encryption, so companies like Signal often find themselves in the difficult position of refusing to help governments. You might recall that Apple has often refused to help the government break into iPhones, for example. I wanted to know how that tradeoff plays out at Signal’s much smaller and more idealistic scale. This is a good one, with lots of Decoder themes in the mix. We have to start doing checklists or something. Okay, Meredith Whittaker, president of Signal. Here we go. Links: The battle inside Signal Yes, even Signal is doing stories now Here’s why Apple’s new child safety features are so controversial Signal is ‘starting to phase out SMS support’ from its Android app A very brief history of every Google messaging app RCS: What it is and why you might want it Let’s chat about RCS WhatsApp is now entirely end-to-end encrypted Moxie Marlinspike has stepped down as CEO of Signal Meredith Whittaker Tweet Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23173757 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Jackson Bierfeldt. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg joined The Verge’s deputy editor Alex Heath for an in-depth conversation about the company’s new high-end, mixed reality headset, the $1,499 Quest Pro, and why he isn’t backing down from building the metaverse. Zuckerberg and Heath also talked about the future of social media, why he enjoys “being doubted,” and the growing concerns about TikTok’s Chinese ownership. Links: The Meta Quest Pro is a cutting-edge headset looking for an audience Xbox Cloud Gaming is coming to the Meta Quest ​​Apple’s mixed reality headset will reportedly come with an M2 chip We finally got our hands and eyes on the PlayStation VR2 Apple’s app tracking policy reportedly cost social media platforms nearly $10 billion  Mark Zuckerberg took on China in a speech defending free expression Why BeReal is breaking out Elon Musk is buying Twitter, probably? Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23161228 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Vjeran Pavic, and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I'm talking to Pat Gelsinger, the CEO of Intel. I’ve been excited to have this conversation for a very long time – ever since Pat took over as CEO a little over a year and a half ago. After all. Intel is a very important company with a huge series of challenges in front of it. It’s still the largest chip manufacturer by revenue, and makes more chips than any other company in the United States. In fact there are basically only three major chip manufacturers: Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, or TSMC, which is in Taiwan, Samsung, based in South Korea. And Intel, here in the United States. The Intel Pat took over was struggling, and was losing ground to in a variety of markets. But in the past year and a half, Pat’s restructured the company, turned over almost all of its leadership positions, opened a new line of business that would compete with TSMC and make chips for other companies including Intel’s competitors, and generally tried to reset Intel’s famous engineering culture around engineering. Glossary: IFS - Intel Foundry Service. Raptor Lake - codename for intel's Gen 13 processors that were just the day before we had our conversation. Sapphire Rapids - the codename for Intel's 4th generation Xeon server processors. 20A and 18A - 20A is a rebranding of what was intel's 5nm process scheduled to debut in 2024 and 18A is a rebranding of Intels 5nm+ node due out in 2025. Packaging - integrated circuit packaging is the last step of semiconductor fabrication. It's where a block of semiconductor material is put into a case. The case, is known as a "package" and that is what allows you put a circuit on a board. Wafers - When a processor is made they make processors you make hundreds of them at once on a giant wafer.  EUV - is Extreme Ultraviolet Lithography. It's the most advanced way to make chips.  ASML - Is the company that makes the machines that lets you make chips. They are the only company that makes EUV machines. RibbonFET - A new transistor technology that Intel developed. ISV - Independent Software Vendors. PDK - Process Design Kit is a set of files that have data and algorithms that explain the manufacturing parameters for a given silicon process. EDA tools - stands for Electronic Design Automation tools. Basically software tools that are used to design and validate the semiconductor manufacturing process. Robert Noyce and Gordon Moore - the founders of Intel. Andy Grove - employee #3 who went on to become one of their most successful CEOs. Links: Moore's Law Intel is replacing its CEO in February Intel has to be better than ‘lifestyle company’ Apple at making CPUs, says new CEO Apple is switching Macs to its own processors starting later this year Apple MacBook Air with M1 review: new chip, no problem  What we know about Intel’s $20 billion bet on Ohio Intel is building a new €17 billion semiconductor manufacturing hub in Germany Intel delays ceremony for Ohio factory over lack of government funding Intel needs 7,000 workers to build its $20 billion chip plant in Ohio Biden signs $280 billion CHIPS and Science Act President Joe Biden speaks after groundbreaking for Intel’s $20 billion semiconductor plant Intel’s top Arc A770 GPU is priced at $329, available October 12th Intel’s 13th Gen processors arrive October 20th with $589 flagship Core i9-13900K Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23149693 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One of the more interesting quirks of the modern tech world is that there’s a really important company at the center of it all that doesn’t make anything. But its work is in your phone, in your TV, your car and maybe even your laptop. I’m talking about ARM, a chip design company that’s been through quite a lot these past few years, and I'm talking to Arm CEO Rene Haas. Arm designs the instruction sets for modern chips: Qualcomm’s chips are Arm chips. Apple’s chips are Arm chips. Samsung’s chips are Arm chips. It’s the heart of modern computing. Arm licenses the instruction set to those companies, who then go off and actually make chips with all sorts of customizations. Basically every smartphone runs an Arm processor, Apple’s Macs now run arm processors, and everything from cars to coffee machines are showing up with more and more arm processors in them. We want to know what you think about Decoder. Take our listener survey! Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23137412 Links: The Vergecast: The HDMI Holiday Spec-tacular on Apple Podcasts  Biden signs $280 billion CHIPS and Science Act Intel needs 7,000 workers to build its $20 billion chip plant in Ohio - The Verge What comes after the smartphone, with Qualcomm CEO Cristiano Amon - The Verge Why the global chip shortage is making it so hard to buy a PS5 Nvidia’s huge Arm deal has just been scrapped What is a SoC? What is an ECU? Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ryan Petersen, is the CEO of Flexport, ac ompany that builds software that integrates all the different shipping vendor systems you might run into as you try to get a product from a factory in China to a consumer in Idaho: rail, sea, truck. We’ve talked about the supply chain and inventory management on Decoder with a lot of our guests — the chip shortage seems to affect every company, and sorting out how to get products made and delivered on time is a pretty universal problem. But we haven’t really talked about how products get from one place to another around the world. So I wanted to talk to Ryan, figure out what Flexport’s role in all this is, what his bigger supply chain solutions would be, and why he’s leaving his job as CEO to be executive chairman and handing the reins to Dave Clark, who used to work at Amazon. Links: Dave Clark to Join Flexport As Our New CEO Flexport Wants to Be Uber of the Oceans At Google, Eric Schmidt Wrote the Book on Adult Supervision The real story behind a tech founder’s ‘tweetstorm that saves Christmas’ Ryan's twitter thread Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23126062 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Mark Bergen, a reporter at Bloomberg and the author of a new book about YouTube called. Like, Comment, Subscribe: Inside YouTube’s Chaotic Rise to World Domination. YouTube has always been fascinating to me because it’s such a black box: everyone feels like they know how the platform works, but very few people have a real understanding of the internal politics and tradeoffs that actually drive YouTube’s decision. Mark’s book is one of the best of its kind I’ve read: not only does he take you inside the company, but he connects the decisions made inside YouTube to the creators who use the platform and the effects it has on them. This was a fun one – keep in mind that for as little as we might know about YouTube, we might know even less about TikTok, which is driving all sorts of platforms, even YouTube, into competing with it. Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23113078  Links: YouTube Partner Program Hank Green on Decoder iJustine Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode was originally published on May 3rd, 2022. Tony Fadell was instrumental in the development of the iPod and iPhone at Apple and then co-founded Nest Labs, which kicked off the consumer smart home market with its smart thermostat in 2011. Tony sold Nest to Google for $3.2 billion in 2014 and eventually left Google. He now runs an investment company called Future Shape.  Links: Inside the Nest: iPod creator Tony Fadell wants to reinvent the thermostat General Magic - Trailer Inside Facebook’s metaverse for work Silicon Graphics Google is reorganizing and Sundar Pichai will become new CEO Fire drill: can Tony Fadell and Nest build a better smoke detector? Google purchases Nest for $3.2 billion Twitter accepts buyout, giving Elon Musk total control of the company Nest is rejoining Google to better compete with Amazon and Apple Apple Music Event 2005 - Motorola Rokr E1 / iTunes Phone Activision Blizzard hit with another sexual harassment lawsuit Nest buying video-monitoring startup Dropcam for $555 million What matters about Matter, the new smart home standard ZIGBEE ON MARS! Directory: Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple Andy Grove, former CEO of Intel Pat Gelsinger, current CEO of Intel Sundar Pichai, current CEO of Alphabet Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla, SpaceX, and The Boring Company Jeff Williams, COO of Apple Matt Rogers, Nest co-founder Jeff Robbin, VP of consumer applications at Apple Steve Hoteling, former CEO gesture recognition company Finger Works Jon Rubinstein, senior VP of the iPod division at Apple Steve Sakomen, hardware engineer and executive at Apple  Avie Tavanian, chief software technology officer at Apple Scott Forstall, senior VP of iOS software, Apple Jony Ive, chief design officer, Apple Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22817673 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve got a special episode of Decoder today – an interview between Verge deputy editor Alex Heath and Meta’s Tom Alison, the head of Facebook. Alex is the co-host of the newest season of Vox Media’s podcast Land of the Giants. This season is about Facebook and Meta. The season finale comes out tomorrow. Alex has been reporting for Land of the Giants for many months, and along the way he interviewed Tom. Facebook has a lot of challenges, but it seems like the biggest problem is TikTok: Facebook's problem is that it spent years – you spent years – building out a social graph that, it turns out, is less interesting than just being shown content that the company thinks you might like. Alison has been at Facebook for more than a decade and previously ran engineering for the News Feed, so he knows more than almost anyone about the history of feeds and where they are going. Links: Land of the Giants Facebook is changing its algorithm to take on TikTok, leaked memo reveals Facebook is revamping its home feed to feel more like TikTok Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23092319 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One thing that strikes me, in all these episodes of Decoder, is how little any of us really pay attention to the advertising industry, and how deeply connected it is to almost other every modern business. After all you can start a company and invent a great product, but you still need to market it: you need to tell people about it, and eventually convince them to buy it. And so you take out an add on a platform and, well, the platform companies we all depend on mostly run on ads. Google’s entire consumer business is ads. Meta’s entire business is ads. And when we talk to creators, they’re even more tied to ads: their distribution platforms like TikTok and YouTube are all ad-supported, and a huge portion of their revenue is ads.  This week I’m talking to Neal Arthur, the CEO of Weiden and Kennedy, one of the few independent major ad agencies in the world, and maybe the coolest one? It’s got a rep. Weiden is the agency that came up with Just Do It for Nike and Bud Light Legends for Bud Light. They’ve done campaigns for Coke, Miller, Microsoft, ESPN – you name it. Coming off our conversation last week with Katie Welch about building a brand from the ground up using influencer marketing and potentially never hiring an ad agency, I wanted to get a view from the other side: how does a big ad agency work? Where does their money come from? So many of the big agencies are merging into what are called holding companies – why is Wieden still independent? Links: Bud Light puts creative account up for review after years with Wieden+Kennedy Mover Over Millennials -- Here Comes Gen Z How Selena Gomez's Rare Beauty Goes Viral, With CMO Katie Welch Mad Men (TV Series 2007-2015) Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23081723 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott. It was edited by Callie Wright. And researched by Liz Lian. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Katie Welch is the Chief Marketing Officer of Rare Beauty — the beauty products company founded by superstar musician and actress Selena Gomez. Rare Beauty sells its products online and in Sephora retail stores, and importantly, Katie does almost no traditional marketing: Rare Beauty is a true internet brand, that depends on social media strategy, influencer marketing, and community to drive sales. Specifically, the enormous community around Selena Gomez, who, again, is an international superstar with a fandom of her own. This kind of marketing is essentially new. Famous people making their own products and companies and using their online reach to launch and grow those businesses is a combination of art and commerce that is 10 – 15 years old at most, Rihanna’s Fenty Beauty is only five years old, but it’s redefined the industry and helped make her a billionaire. Some of the first big successes came from the Kardashian-Jenners including Kylie Cosmetics, founded in 2015, as well as Kim Kardashian’s Skims, founded in 2019. I’ve been really curious about how these businesses work, how they reach their audiences and customers, how CMOs like Katie measure success, whether being the marketing executive for an super online celebrity-driven business feels different than being a traditional marketing person, and whether the ever-present risk of weird things happening online make her plan differently. Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23071490 Links: Why BeReal is breaking out Why Hank Green can’t quit YouTube for TikTok Apple’s app tracking transparency feature isn’t an instant privacy button Apple’s app tracking policy reportedly cost social media platforms nearly $10 billion Updating The Verge’s background policy Marketing Funnels Katie's TikTok Instagram walks back TikTok-style changes — Adam Mosseri explains why Makeup company Glossier to sell its products at Sephora as new CEO pushes to expand reach Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In 2019, the Trump administration brokered a deal allowing TMobile to buy Sprint as long as it helped Dish Network stand up a new 5G network to keep the number of national wireless carriers at 4 and preserve competition in the mobile market. Now, in 2022, Dish’s network is slowly getting off the ground. And it’s built on a new kind of wireless technology called Open Radio Access Network, or O-RAN. Dish’s network is only the third O-RAN network in the entire world, and if O-RAN works, it will radically change how the entire wireless industry operates. I have wanted to know more about O-RAN for a long time. So today, I’m talking to Tareq Amin, CEO of Rakuten Mobile. Rakuten Mobile is a new wireless carrier in Japan, it just launched in 2020 – it’s also the world’s first Open RAN network, and Tareq basically pushed this whole concept into existence. I really wanted to know if ORAN is going to work, and how Tareq managed to make it happen in such a traditional industry. So we got into it – like, really into it. Links: Rakuten Rakuten Edge Cloud "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" Rakuten Group to Acquire Mobile Industry Innovator Altiostar Gadgets 360 Massive MIMO Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23061797 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I’m talking to Hank Green. Hank doesn’t need much introduction. In fact, he invited himself on Decoder to talk about YouTube's partner program, which shares ad revenue between YouTube and the people making videos. The split is 55/45 in favor of creators. But other platforms don't have this. There is no revenue share on Instagram. There is no revenue share on Twitter. There’s no revenue on Twitter at all, really. And importantly there is no revenue share on TikTok: instead there’s something called a creator fund, which shares fixed pool of money, about a billion dollars, among all the creators on the platform. That means as more and more creators join TikTok, everyone gets paid. You might understand this concept as: basic division. This episode is long, and it’s weedsy. Honestly, it’s pretty deep in our feelings about participating in the internet culture economy, and the relationship between huge platform companies and the communities that build on them. But it’s a good one, and it’s not really something any of us talk about enough. Links: Vlogbrothers Decoder interview with YouTube Chief Product Officer Neal Mohan Viacom Has Officially Acquired VidCon, A Global Online Video Convention Series Patreon Acquires Subbable, Aligning the YouTube Stars The Verge EMAILS t-shirt Crash Course SciShow Eons The medium is the message The Kardashians hate the new Instagram Hank Green: So… TikTok Sucks Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast, “TikTok vs YouTube with Hank Green” Decoder: The videos that don’t work on YouTube and the future of the creator business with Nebula CEO Dave Wiskus  Awesome Socks Club Awesome Coffee Club Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23051537 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we’re talking to Jennifer Hyman, co-founder and CEO of Rent the Runway. Rent the Runway is a a pretty simple idea: it’s a clothing rental and subscription business for women which launched in 2008. The basic idea is pretty simple: you can rent clothes one by one, and Subscribers pay a certain monthly amount for a certain number of pieces that they can swap out anywhere from 1 to 4 times a month depending on the tier of their membership. Rent the Runway also lets customers buy secondhand clothing either after they rent it or just outright.  But Rent the Runway has had a pretty intense path from its founding in 2008 to going public in 2021: the onset of the pandemic in 2020 cratered the business as 60 percent of customers canceled or paused their subscriptions, and Jennifer was forced to make drastic cuts to survive. But she says that now things are swinging back, as more and more people are spending their dollars going out, traveling, and generally shifting their spending from things to experiences. There’s a post Covid wedding boom going on: Rent the Runway is right there for people. Jenn and I talked about that swing in the business, but we spent most of this conversation talking about running a company that basically does really high-risk logistics: sourcing clothes, sending them to people, getting them back, cleaning them, and sending them out again. Spotify and Netflix run subscription businesses where the products never wear out or get dirty; Jenn has to deal with red win stains at scale. In fact, Rent the Runway runs one of the country’s biggest dry cleaning operations, which I find to be completely fascinating: what does dry cleaning innovation actually look like, and how does it hit the bottom line? My favorite episodes of Decoder are the ones where simple ideas – renting clothes – turn out to be incredible complicated to execute. This is one of those. Links: Apple defends upcoming privacy changes as ‘standing up for our users’ Rent the Runway, a secondhand fashion site, makes its trading debut. Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23041884 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All right, let’s talk about the metaverse.  You probably can’t stop hearing about it. It’s in startup pitches, in earnings reports, some companies are creating metaverse divisions, and Mark Zuckerberg changed Facebook’s name to Meta to signal that he’s shifting the entire company to focus on the metaverse. The problem, very simply, is that no one knows what the metaverse is, what it’s supposed to do, or why anyone should care about it. Luckily, we have some help. Today, I’m talking to Matthew Ball, who is the author of the new book called The Metaverse: And How It Will Revolutionize Everything. Matthew was the global head of strategy at Amazon Studios. In 2018, he left Amazon to become an analyst and started writing about the metaverse on his blog. He’s been writing about this since way before the hype exploded, and his book aims to be the best resource for understanding the metaverse, which he sees as the next phase of the internet. It’s not just something that you access through a VR headset, though that’s part of it. It’s how you’ll interact with everything. That sort of change is where new companies have opportunities to unseat the old guard. This episode gets very in the weeds, but it really helped me understand the decisions some companies have made around building digital worlds and the technical challenges and business challenges that are slowing it down — or might even stop it. And, of course, I asked whether any of this is a good idea in the first place because, well, I’m not so sure. But there’s a lot here, so listen, and then you tell me. Links: Matthew Ball on Twitter  Mark Zuckerberg on why Facebook is rebranding to Meta  Microsoft, Meta, and others are founding a metaverse open standards group Android emoji will actually look human this year Apple’s app tracking policy reportedly cost social media platforms nearly $10 billion Microsoft and Activision Blizzard: the latest news on the acquisition Microsoft HoloLens boss Alex Kipman is out after misconduct allegations European Parliament Think Tank memorandum—Metaverse: Opportunities, risks and policy implications Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23033211 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, we're sharing the first episode of Land of the Giants: The Facebook/ Meta Disruption. Long before Mark Zuckerberg renamed Facebook Meta and made an unprecedented pivot into the metaverse, he invented a feature that turned Facebook into a social network behemoth. The News Feed, which put your friends’ status updates onto your homepage, changed the way we interact online. It was a strong statement of Zuckerberg’s values: that connecting, and sharing, at scale would be de-facto good for the world. It was also his first public controversy. Follow Land of the Giants to get new episodes every Wednesday. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Happy Fourth of July to our listeners in the States. Decoder is only a year old, but we’ve decided a Decoder tradition is that every summer, we’re going to do an episode about the outdoor grill industry, which is gigantic and growing. Last year, I talked to Roger Dahle, the CEO of Blackstone Products, a griddle company that blew up on TikTok and actually went public a few months after we talked. This year, I’m talking to Jeremy Andrus, the CEO of Traeger, which makes beloved wood pellet smokers with all sorts of features — the high-end models even have cloud connectivity so you can control them from your phone. Traeger also recently went public; the company says it will book between $800–850 million in revenue this year. The Traeger story is fascinating: the company was around for 27 years and not growing very much when Jeremy bought it with the help of a private equity firm and became the CEO. He had no background in cooking; he had previously been CEO of Skullcandy, the headphone brand. His early run as CEO of Traeger was a bit of a nightmare, culminating in an arson of a truck at one of Traeger’s warehouses. Jeremy responded by cleaning house, replacing most of the team, and moving the company from Oregon to Utah. Since then, Traeger has grown its revenue by 10 times and hopes to close in on a billion dollars in revenue soon. But, it has all the challenges that come along with shipping big, heavy hardware products through the supply chain crisis, looming recession, and changing consumer behavior as one version of the pandemic seems to be ending and people are spending their money on travel instead of home goods. Jeremy was game to talk about all of that; we really got into it. Links: ​​How Traeger's CEO Cleaned Up a Toxic Culture Jeremy Andrus Found Success With Skullcandy. Now He Hopes To Do It Again With Traeger Grills. Traeger buys wireless thermometer company Meater  Jeremy Andrus Found Success With Skullcandy. Now He Hopes To Do It Again With Traeger Grills.  Traeger's stock opens 22% above IPO price, to value the grill market at $2.6 billion Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22953717 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m old enough to remember what it was like to fly before 9/11 — there were no TSA lines, there was no PreCheck, and there certainly wasn’t any requirement to take off your shoes. In fact, there wasn’t any TSA at all. But 9/11 radically changed the way we move through an airport. The formation of the new Department of Homeland Security and the new Transportation Security Administration led to much more rigorous and invasive security measures for travelers trying to catch their flight. This year is the 20th anniversary of the Department of Homeland Security and the TSA, and I think it’s safe to say that nobody enjoys waiting in the airport security line. And in the post-9/11 world, things like PreCheck are the great innovation of the department. At least according to Dan McCoy, who is the TSA’s chief innovation officer, who told me that PreCheck is “a hallmark government innovation program.” But what do programs like PreCheck and the larger surveillance apparatus that theoretically keep us safe mean for the choices we make? What do we give up to get into the shorter security line, and how comfortable should we be about that? This week, The Verge launches Homeland, our special series about the enormous influence of the Department of Homeland Security and how it has dramatically changed our country’s relationship with technology, surveillance, and immigration. So we have a special episode of Decoder with Dan McCoy to see where the TSA fits into that picture. Links: Read more stories from the Homeland series Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22945989 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mercedes-Benz CEO Ola Källenius became CEO in 2019 but has been working for Mercedes since 1993 in almost every part of the company. During that period, Mercedes spent time getting a lot bigger; the company famously merged with Chrysler for a time, forming a giant called DaimlerChrysler. But, over the past few years, it’s actually been getting much smaller and more focused. The Chrysler deal was undone and, just recently, Ola spun off the truck division into its own public company called Daimler Truck, leaving Mercedes-Benz to stand alone as a premium car brand. Car companies are either consolidating into giant conglomerates like Stellantis or shrinking and focusing like Mercedes. A lot of that is driven by the huge shift to electric vehicles and then, on top of that, to cars essentially becoming rolling computers. You’ll hear Ola refer to cars as “digital products” a lot — and to Mercedes itself as a tech company. (Actually, he says it’s a luxury and tech company.) Mercedes now has two new EVs, the EQS and the EQE, both of which have massive infotainment screens running Mercedes’ proprietary MBUX system, which even has its own voice assistant called Hey Mercedes. I had to ask Ola about Apple’s recent announcement that the next version of CarPlay would be able to take over every display in the car, including the instrument cluster. Apple showed a Mercedes logo on a slide during that presentation — so, is Ola ready to hand over his UI to Cupertino?  Let’s find out. Ola Källenius, CEO of Mercedes-Benz. Here we go. Links: Mercedes-Benz Vision EQXX concept car traveled over 1,000 km on a single charge Mercedes-Benz unveils sporty, ultra-long-range vision EQXX electric concept car The six-figure Mercedes-Benz EQS gets a 350-mile range rating Daimler AG to rebrand as Mercedes-Benz on Feb. 1 Big automakers are breaking themselves apart to compete with Silicon Valley Mercedes-Benz reveals an electric G-Wagen concept for the future Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22936880 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Verge is all about how technology make us feel. Our screens and our systems aren’t inert, or neutral – they create emotions, sometimes the strongest emotions anyone actually feels in their day to day lives. I’ve been thinking about that a lot ever since I read a new book called Everything I Need I Get From You: How Fangirls Created the Internet by Kaitlyn Tiffany, who was a culture reporter at The Verge several years ago. The thesis of her book is that online fandom, specifically the hardcore fans of the British boy band One Direction, created much of the online culture we live in today on social platforms. And her bigger thesis is that fandom overall is a cultural and political force that can’t be ignored; it shapes elections, it drives cultural conversation, it can bring joy to people who feel lonely, and it can result in dramatic harassment campaigns when fans turn on someone. Links: Kaitlyn Tiffany Verge Archive One Direction Playlist Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22930314 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today is Apple’s Worldwide Developers Conference, or WWDC. It’s one of the biggest events of the year for Apple, one of the most important companies in the world. In fact, Apple is the most valuable company in the world, and it posted $18 billion in net profits in its first quarter — the most quarterly profit of any public company in history. So, as we go into another huge Apple event, I wanted to have Verge labor reporter Zoe Schiffer on to talk about something else that’s happening inside Apple: a brewing push by its retail employees to unionize, store by store, because they’re unhappy with their pay and working conditions. Zoe is really well-sourced; she has an inside look at this fight. So, she helps us explain how this all works and what it might mean. Links: Fired #AppleToo organizer files labor charge against the company Apple’s frontline employees are struggling to survive Apple hires anti-union lawyers in escalating union fight This is what Apple retail employees in Atlanta are fighting for First US Apple Store union election set for June 2nd in Atlanta Apple accused of union busting in new labor board filing Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22917648 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Michael is president of the Blockchain Association of Ukraine and founder of the Kuna Exchange, which lets people buy cryptocurrency and swap between them. Earlier this year, the Ukrainian government set up wallets on Kuna and other exchanges to accept donations to the war effort in crypto; in April, Bloomberg reported it had received over $60 million in crypto donations. What’s more, earlier this year Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy also signed a virtual assets bill into law, which will recognize cryptocurrency as an asset in Ukraine when the war is over. As president of the Blockchain Association, Michael lobbied for this law, which you’ll hear him talk about — especially in the context of how little faith he has in the banking system. He says several times that, even before the war, it couldn’t be trusted and that people were already using a combination of crypto and dollars for large transactions instead of Ukraine’s actual currency, which is called the hryvnia. Links: Ukraine Readies NFT Sales as Crypto Donations Top $60 Million Ukraine's Zelenskyy Signs Virtual Assets Bill Into Law, Legalizing Crypto Crypto Goes to War in Ukraine Blockchain Association of Ukraine Russian tycoon Tinkov sells stake in TCS Group to billionaire Potanin The Bitcoin Boom Cypriot financial crisis The 2020 Global Crypto Adoption Index: Cryptocurrency is a Global Phenomenon Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22902506 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott. It was researched by Liz Lian and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One of our recurring jokes at The Verge is that every YouTuber eventually makes a video where they talk about how mad they are at YouTube. Whether it’s demonetization or copyright strikes or just the algorithm changing, YouTubers have to contend with a big platform that has a lot of power over their business, and they often don’t have the leverage to push back.  On this episode of Decoder, I’m talking to Dave Wiskus, the CEO of two really interesting companies: one is called Standard, which is a management company for YouTubers, and the other is Nebula, an alternative paid streaming platform where creators can post videos, take a direct cut of the revenue, and generally fund work that might get lost on YouTube.  What really stood out to me here is that Dave is in the business of making things: this conversation was really grounded in the reality of the creator business as it exists today and how that real business can support real people. You’ll hear it when we talk about Web3 and NFTs a little bit — Dave just thinks that stuff is bullshit, and he says so because it’s not a business that exists now. That’s an important dynamic to think about — and one for more platforms to take seriously. Links: Dave's subscriber tweet Nebula Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22840704 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Google I/O was this week and Nilay Patel and David Pierce had a chance to sit down with Google CEO Sundar Pichai to talk about the event and the products that were announced. This interview was recorded for The Vergecast, another podcast from The Verge. You can listen to The Vergecast wherever you get your podcasts – or just click here. We hope you enjoyed the interview. Decoder will be back again on Tuesday with an all new episode. See you then. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today Nilay Patel talking to Daniel Dines, the founder and CEO of UiPath, one of the biggest automation companies in the world. But not the automation you might think; UiPath sells software automation, or what consultants call “robotic process automation” so they can sound fancy and charge higher fees. UiPath and other software automation companies have a different approach to solving issues with your legacy software: just hire another computer to use software for you. Seriously: UiPath uses computer vision to literally look at what’s on a screen, and then uses a virtual mouse and keyboard to click around and do things in apps like Excel and Salesforce. The automations can be mundane, like generating lists of people to contact from public records, or intensely complicated: UiPath can actually monitor how different software is used throughout a company and suggest automations. Huge companies like Uber, Facebook, Spotify, and Google all use UIPath. Links: The robots are coming for your office UiPath AI Computer Vision Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22828061 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tony Fadell was instrumental in the development of the iPod and iPhone at Apple and then co-founded Nest Labs, which kicked off the consumer smart home market with its smart thermostat in 2011. Tony sold Nest to Google for $3.2 billion in 2014 and eventually left Google. He now runs an investment company called Future Shape.  Links: Inside the Nest: iPod creator Tony Fadell wants to reinvent the thermostat General Magic - Trailer Inside Facebook’s metaverse for work Silicon Graphics Google is reorganizing and Sundar Pichai will become new CEO Fire drill: can Tony Fadell and Nest build a better smoke detector? Google purchases Nest for $3.2 billion Twitter accepts buyout, giving Elon Musk total control of the company Nest is rejoining Google to better compete with Amazon and Apple Apple Music Event 2005 - Motorola Rokr E1 / iTunes Phone Activision Blizzard hit with another sexual harassment lawsuit Nest buying video-monitoring startup Dropcam for $555 million What matters about Matter, the new smart home standard ZIGBEE ON MARS! Directory: Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple Andy Grove, former CEO of Intel Pat Gelsinger, current CEO of Intel Sundar Pichai, current CEO of Alphabet Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla, SpaceX, and The Boring Company Jeff Williams, COO of Apple Matt Rogers, Nest co-founder Jeff Robbin, VP of consumer applications at Apple Steve Hoteling, former CEO gesture recognition company Finger Works Jon Rubinstein, senior VP of the iPod division at Apple Steve Sakomen, hardware engineer and executive at Apple  Avie Tavanian, chief software technology officer at Apple Scott Forstall, senior VP of iOS software, Apple Jony Ive, chief design officer, Apple Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22817673 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Cindy Cohn is the executive Director of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, or EFF. If you’re an internet user of a certain age like me, you know the EFF as the premiere civil liberties group for the internet. The EFF has fought pitched battles against things like government surveillance, digital rights management for music and movies, and government speech regulations that would violate the First Amendment. These fights were important, and shaped the internet as we know it today. Links Electronic Frontier Foundation How to fix the Internet: Podcast by the EFF How the EU is fighting tech giants with Margrethe Vestager Apple pushes back on iPhone order, says FBI is seeking ‘dangerous power' Here’s why Apple’s new child safety features are so controversial Viacom vs YouTube Texas passes law that bans kicking people off social media based on ‘viewpoint’ Santa Clara Principles Carterfone Decoder interview with YouTube chief product officer Neal Mohan Computer Fraud and Abuse Act Facebook v. Power Ventures Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22805290 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Alan Yeung is a professor of entrepreneurship at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and the former head of the Foxconn project in Wisconsin. If you don’t quite remember, the Foxconn project in Wisconsin was announced in 2017 as a massive deal to build the first “Generation 10.5” LCD factory in North America. It was also one of the first big moments in the Trump presidency, complete with President Trump holding a golden shovel at a lavish groundbreaking ceremony where he said the factory would be “the eighth wonder of the world.” But it turned out that while Foxconn was putting on a great show, no LCD factory was actually getting built, even though Foxconn kept saying it was happening. Links We're nominated for a Webby! Vote for Decoder! The award winning story from Josh Dzieza - The 8th wonder of the world Wisconsin's $4.1 billion Foxconn factory boondoggle Foxconn’s $100M deal with the University of Wisconsin has students worried What a new governor means for Wisconsin’s controversial Foxconn factory Foxconn and the village: the $10B factory deal that turned one small Wisconsin town upside down No one seems to know what Foxconn is doing in Wisconsin After a ‘personal conversation’ with Trump, Foxconn says it will build a factory in Wisconsin after all Foxconn is confusing the hell out of Wisconsin Foxconn promised a ‘correction’ about empty buildings in Wisconsin two weeks ago, and it hasn’t said a word since With Foxconn chief’s Trump meeting, the Wisconsin project gets even more political One month ago, Foxconn said its innovation centers weren’t empty — they still are Foxconn’s delays might finally give Wisconsin the upper hand One year after Trump’s Foxconn groundbreaking, there is almost nothing to show for it Even fixing Wisconsin’s Foxconn deal won’t fix it, says state-requested report Foxconn’s first announced product for its Wisconsin factory is an airport coffee robot Foxconn releases and immediately cancels plans for a giant dome in Wisconsin Foxconn's giant glass dome in Wisconsin is back, baby Exclusive: documents show Foxconn refuses to renegotiate Wisconsin deal Foxconn’s buildings in Wisconsin are still empty, one year later Exclusive: Wisconsin denies Foxconn tax subsidies after contract negotiations fail The 8th wonder of the world Exclusive: Wisconsin report confirms Foxconn's “LCD factory” isn't real Foxconn tells Wisconsin it never promised to build an LCD factory Intel selects Ohio for ‘largest silicon manufacturing location on the planet’ Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22794506 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chris Dixon leads crypto investing at the storied Silicon Valley venture capital firm Andreessen Horowitz, or a16z. He’s responsible for leading funding rounds for Coinbase, which went public about a year ago, the NFT marketplace OpenSea, and Yuga Labs, which is behind the Bored Ape Yacht Club among others. He is also a prolific user of Twitter, where he posts lengthy threads about crypto and web3. He is at once one of the biggest investors in the space, and its biggest booster. Links Decoder is nominated for a Webby. Vote! 1000 True Fans My first impressions of web3 A comprehensive breakdown of the Epic v. Apple ruling SEC v Howey Co. Transcript https://www.theverge.com/e/22784768 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Julia Alexander was the perfect guest to come on our show and talk about the state of the streaming industry – we’re a couple years into the huge shift to streaming entertainment in Hollywood, and it’s clear the streamers are here to stay. Apple just won the Oscar for Best Picture for a film it bought out of Sundance called Coda. Amazon now owns MGM. Netflix is investing in games and hinting at advertising for the first time. One idea that comes up on Decoder again and again is that how we distribute media has a huge influence on the media itself – and we talked about what kinds of movies and shows are getting made now that the streamers are here to stay. Links: Downstream Podcast ‘Extremely awkward’: Bob Chapek and Bob Iger had a falling out, they rarely talk — and the rift looms over Disney’s future Pixar staff speaks out against Disney moving its films to streaming only: ‘It’s hard to grasp’ HBO Max and Discovery Plus will merge into one app Apple and Major League Baseball to offer “Friday Night Baseball” Yankees will have 21 games only available on Amazon Prime Prime Video unveils logo for 'Thursday Night Football' CNN Plus launches with Reddit-like interactive Q&As Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22774600 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For this episode, I’m talking to Steve Aoki. He is a superstar DJ, producer, record label owner, and prolific entrepreneur. Steve has been part of the music industry since 1996, so he’s been through a lot of these big tech transitions, and now he’s heavily invested in another, with Web3, the Aokiverse. It involves selling tokens and NFTs and, over time, is meant to be part of the metaverse. Because, of course. Links Aokiverse Dim Mak Travel Advice from Steve Aoki, Who Throws Cake at 2,500 People a Year Transcript https://www.theverge.com/e/22763374 Credits Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott. Additional research was done by Liz Lian and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Aparna Chennapragada is the chief product officer at Robinhood, the popular stock and crypto trading app. And we have some news to discuss: Robinhood is launching a new cash card today that allows people to spend money directly out of their Robinhood account and set up various plans to automatically invest by rounding up purchase amounts to the nearest dollar and putting the difference in various investments. Links: How r/wallstreetbets gamed the stock of GameStop The chicken and the pig Google is reportedly removing Google Now Launcher from the Play Store Robinhood Snacks Robinhood buys Say Technologies for $140M to improve shareholder-company relations Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22753372 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Margrethe Vestager is one of the driving forces behind tech regulation worldwide. Appointed as the European Commission’s Commissioner of Competition in 2014 and an executive vice president in 2019, she’s pursued antitrust cases against Apple, Google, Meta (formerly Facebook), and Amazon among others. Now, with the EU on the verge of implementing a new antitrust law called the Digital Markets Act, Vestager is planning her next moves. Links: EU's Vestager says analysing metaverse ahead of possible regulatory action The Digital Markets Act: ensuring fair and open digital markets Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22745302 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Matt Mullenweg is the CEO of Automattic, the company that owns WordPress.com, which he co-founded, and Tumblr, the irrepressible social network it acquired from the wreckage of AOL, Yahoo, and Verizon. Matt’s point of view is that the world is better off when the web is open and fun, and Automattic builds and acquires products that help that goal along. Links: Exclusive: Automattic CEO Matt Mullenweg on what’s next for Tumblr Verizon is selling Tumblr to WordPress’ owner Automattic, owner of Tumblr and WordPress.com, buys podcast app Pocket Casts Gutenberg Tumblr Shop Why Apple’s new privacy feature is such a big deal Taylor Swift's Tumblr Tumblr will ban all adult content on December 17th How Tumblr Became Popular for Being Obsolete Basecamp CTO David Heinemeier Hansson and Rep. David Cicilline on Apple's monopolistic app store fees Inside Sonos' decision to sue Google - and how it won After the porn ban, Tumblr users have ditched the platform as promised The Trauma Floor: The secret lives of Facebook moderators in America Vox Media adds The Coral Project Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22741898 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott. Research was done by Liz Lian. It was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I’m talking to Eben Upton, the CEO of Raspberry Pi, a fascinating company that makes beloved tiny hackable computers that are extremely inexpensive. They’re also some of the only readily available computers that are designed to be tinkered with. They’re not heavily locked down, and using one requires learning how a computer actually works. And that’s the entire point: Eben told me the idea of the Raspberry Pi was to create a product that enticed kids into studying computer science at the University of Cambridge. They’ve more than achieved that goal. Seven million Raspberry Pi units were sold last year, and there’s talk of the company going public.  Links: Raspberry Pi The business of finding a better job, with Career Karma CEO Ruben Harris How Artificial Intelligence is Helping Japanese Cucumber Farmers Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22730196 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week I sat down with Patrick Spence, the CEO of Sonos, and Eddie Lazarus, his Chief Legal Officer. I wanted both Patrick and Eddie on the show to talk about when a company like Sonos makes the decision to head to the courts and increasingly, Congress. Sonos has long accused other tech giants of stealing its tech, but in 2019 it actually sued Google for patent infringement. Sonos recently won that lawsuit at the US International Trade Commission, which ruled that Google infringed all five patents Sonos brought to court. I wanted to understand how Patrick and Eddie decided to take the risk of a lawsuit here – Sonos claims Google actually infringes over 150 patents, so how did they pick.. Five.. to sue over?  Links: Sonos sues Google for allegedly stealing smart speaker tech Sonos CEO will testify to lawmakers after suing Google Google countersues Sonos for patent infringement Sonos sues Google for infringing five more wireless audio patents A judge has ruled that Google infringed on Sonos’ patents Sonos says Google is blocking it from offering more than one voice assistant at once Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22719377 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m going to let you in on a Decoder secret: at the end of last year, I tasked our producers with finding better ways for us to cover crypto and Web 3.0 on Decoder. I don’t think it’s any secret that I’m fairly skeptical of crypto, but I want to come by that skepticism honestly—and on the flip side, I want to make sure to see its opportunities and benefits clearly. We’ve already done episodes on Bitcoin and DAOs, decentralized autonomous organizations, and we’re going to do more episodes as the year goes on. Today I’m talking to Tonya Evans, a law professor at Penn State Dickinson Law. She teaches IP law, copyright, and blockchain. She also hosts the Tech Intersect podcast, where she covers how law and technology intersect. She has spent a lot of time thinking about crypto assets and how they interact with the law. Tonya’s point of view is that we shouldn’t just abandon many of the legal frameworks we have today—she just wants them to adapt to this new internet. Links: The counterfeit NFT problem is only getting worse Instagram says sites need photographers’ permission to embed posts BlockFi settlement with the SEC A cringe rapper slash Forbes contributor allegedly found with billions in stolen Bitcoin Constitution DAO Decoder episode Alfonso Ribeiro Sues Fortnite Over Use of His Signature Fresh Prince Dance, The Carlton The ‘Carlton dance’ couldn’t be copyrighted for a Fortnite lawsuit Adi Robertson's reporting about Spice DAO Tonya Evans' website, ProfTonyaEvans.com Tonya Evans on Twitter Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22708620 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bärí Williams is a legal and operations advisor to tech companies who focuses on AI and diversity. Her credentials are rock solid: Bärí was lead counsel at Facebook working on various projects, including internet connectivity efforts and diversifying the company’s supply chain. After that, Bärí went to work at StubHub, an AI startup studio called All Turtles, and a data and identity analytics company called Bandwagon Fan Club. But now, she’s independent — a business of one, consulting on operations with a focus on diversity and AI. I was curious why she decided to leave being a tech executive behind and make that shift to diversity work. We talked about that, but our conversation actually started with sports news — NFL news. Links: Diversity wins: how inclusion matters Black in tech The 4 most explosive allegations from Brian Flores’ lawsuit against the NFL California just made it a lot harder for companies to cover up harassment and abuse Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22697189 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lauren Williams is the co-founder and CEO of Capital B, a new nonprofit media company dedicated to news for Black audiences. Capital B launched on January 31st, with both a national news site and a local newsroom dedicated to Atlanta – and they plan to expand to more cities over time. Links: Capital B Recode Media Podcast Tired Of The Social Media Rat Race, Journalists Move To Writing Substack Newsletters Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22686070 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, and Jackie McDermott with and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s an interesting time to talk to someone in the business of helping people get new jobs — we’re still fully in the middle of the pandemic-driven Great Resignation, and a record 4.5 million people quit their jobs in November 2021, and it doesn’t seem to be slowing down. But that’s exactly what Career Karma and CEO Ruben Harris are doing. Links: Career Karma A record 4.5 million workers quit their jobs in November Breaking Into Startups AT&T’s $1 billion gambit: Retraining nearly half its workforce for jobs of the future Making uncommon knowledge common The Great Resignation is accelerating How an Excel TickToker manifested her way to making six figures a day Launch House Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22674665 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Jackie McDermott, and Liam James. It was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Regular listeners of Decoder know car CEOs love coming on the show. There is a lot of change in the car industry, a lot of big ideas about how to manage that change, and a lot of big problems to solve: the transition to electric vehicles, the fact that cars are basically turning into rolling smartphones, how to make self-driving work safely, and more. And, of course, we always end up talking about Tesla — because how can you not? Links: Listen to the full interviews here Luminar CEO Austin Russell Ford CEO Jim Farley Argo AI CEO Brian Saleski Polestar CEO Thomas Ingenlath Waymo CEO Tekedra Mawakana Jeep CEO Christian Meunier Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg Volkswagen CEO Herbert Diess Transcript of this episode Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, and Jackie McDermott with and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Links Dieselgate coverage on The Verge VW vows to build massive electric car charging network across US Electrify America announces doubling of charging network with 1,800 stations and 10,000 chargers Transcript https://www.theverge.com/e/22652357 Credits Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, and Jackie McDermott with and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Cristiano Amon is the president and CEO of Qualcomm, and he’s always been a relentless cheerleader for what mobile computing can do for people — especially if that mobile computing is powered by Qualcomm’s chips. Links: Apple supplier TSMC confirms it’s building an Arizona chip plant Intel will make Qualcomm chips in new foundry deal The Verge 5G landing page Qualcomm’s new Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 chip is here to power the Android flagships of 2022 Qualcomm’s next-gen CPU for PCs will take on Apple’s M-series chips in 2023 Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22640552 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, and Jackie McDermott with and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this special, Thursday episode of Decoder, Andrew Hawkins spoke with secretary of transportation Pete Butigieg ahead of his speech at CES 2022. 2021 was an eventful year for Buttigieg, the youngest and arguably the most notable person to take on the role of transportation secretary in many years. Congress passed President Joe Biden’s $1 trillion infrastructure plan, which will provide billions of new funding for the creation of a national network of electric vehicle charging stations. The secretary and Andrew talked about that, about self driving vehicles, and of course, Tesla. Links: Secretary Pete Buttigieg on the future of transportation The Verge CES hub Biden signs $1 trillion infrastructure package into law The investigation into Tesla Autopilot’s emergency vehicle problem is getting bigger Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22633231 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andru Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Logitech is one of those ubiquitous companies — it’s been around since 1981, selling all kinds of important things that connect to computers of all shapes and sizes: mice, keyboards, cases, cameras, you name it. Nilay Patel spoke with Logitech CEO Bracken Darrell about how the company met increased demand during the pandemic, whether that changed his plans to shift to a services company, and how the supply chain issues around the world affect his business. They also talked about how he manages Logitech’s relationships with other tech giants like Apple and Amazon. And we had to talk about the decision to kill the Harmony remote line. Links: Nilay's interview with Bracken Darrell from 2019 Everything you need to know about the global chip shortage Why charging phones is such a complex business with Anker CEO Steven Yang Logitech officially discontinues its Harmony remotes How an excel TikToker manifested her way to making six figures a day Logitech is buying Streamlabs for $89 million Logitech announces cheaper Magic Keyboard alternative for new iPad Pro Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22610722 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So today I’m talking to Jameel Jaffer, executive director of the The Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia University, about one of the hardest problems at the intersection of tech and policy right now: the question of how to regulate social media platforms. Everyone seems to think we should do it – Democrats, Republicans – even Facebook is running ads saying it welcomes regulation. It’s weird. But while everyone might agree on the idea, no one agrees on the execution, and the biggest hurdle is the First Amendment.. Links: Florida governor signs law to block ‘deplatforming’ of Florida politicians Judge blocks Florida’s social media law Texas passes law that bans kicking people off social media based on ‘viewpoint’ Federal court blocks Texas law banning ‘viewpoint discrimination’ on social media Social media companies want to co-opt the First Amendment. Courts shouldn’t let them. Miami Herald Publishing Company vs. Tornillo Pacific Gas & Electric Company v. Public Utilities Commission of California Hurley v. Irish-American Gay, Lesbian Bisexual Group Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22602514 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andru Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

John Hanke is the CEO of Niantic, a company that makes the wildly popular Pokemon Go mobile game in partnership with Nintendo and the Pokémon company. Pokemon Go, and its predecessor Ingress, are now the largest and most successful augmented reality games in the industry, which means John has long been at the forefront of what we’ve all started calling the metaverse—digital worlds that interact with the real world. Lots of companies are chasing metaverse hype but John’s been at it for a while, and I wanted to talk about the reality instead of the hype. We also coin the phrase “marketplace of realities.” It’s a ride. Links: What’s left of Magic Leap? Microsoft is supplying 120,000 HoloLens-based headsets to the US Army Snap’s first AR Spectacles are an ambitious, impractical start Facebook just revealed its new name: Meta There will never be another Pokémon Go Pokémon Go is still incredibly relevant Harry Potter: Wizards Unite is shutting down next year Springboard: the secret history of the first real smartphone is out now The best thing to do in VR is work out NFT's, explained Pokémon Go creator Niantic is working on AR glasses with Qualcomm Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22596531 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, and Jackie McDermott with research by Liz Lian and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andru Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jonah Erlich is one of the core members of a group called ConstitutionDAO, a group that raised $47 Million to try to buy one of the original copies of the United States Constitution at an auction held by the high-end auction house Sotheby’s. Links: ConstitutionDAO Endaoment Crypto collective raises $27 million to bid for rare copy of US Constitution ConstitutionDAO loses $43 million auction of rare US Constitution copy ConstitutionDAO will shut down after losing bid for Constitution Almost buying a copy of the Constitution is easy, but giving the money back is hard Code is Law Ice Bucket Challenge dramatically accelerated the fight against ALS Iwata Asks: Just Being President Was A Waste! Succession Could ConstitutionDAO's PEOPLE token be the next meme coin? Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22584604 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott. We are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kat Norton is a Microsoft Excel influencer. She has over a million followers on TikTok and Instagram, where she goes by the name Miss Excel, and she’s leveraged that into a software training business that is now generating up to six figures of revenue a day. That’s six figures a day. And she’s only been doing this since June 2020. Nilay Patel talks to her about how she built the business, how she uses energetics to go viral, and why her relationship with social media is so different than other creators and influencers, Links: Excelerator Course A Microsoft Excel influencer quit her day job and is making 6 figures from her unconventional way of teaching spreadsheet hacks, tips, and tricks Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22571899 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, and Andrew Marino. And we are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky prides himself on thinking very differently than other CEOs, and his answers to the Decoder questions about how he structures and manages his company were almost always the opposite of what I’m used to hearing on the show. Airbnb is pretty much a single team, focused on a single product, and it all rolls up to Brian. That’s very different from most other big companies, which have lots of divisions and overlapping lines of authority. And Airbnb’s relationship to cities is changing as tourism changes. Airbnb used to be the poster child for a tech company that showed up without permission and fought with regulators, but as the company has grown and the pandemic has changed things, it’s entered what is hopefully a more mature phase — it just came to a deal with New York City after ten years of argument. I asked Brian about that and about what it’s like to run a public company now — the transition from scrappy startup to public company engaged with regulators is a big one. Of course, I also had to ask about cryptocurrency and the metaverse — does Brian think we’re all going to be visiting virtual NFT museums on vacations in the future? You have to listen and find out. Okay, Brian Chesky, CEO of Airbnb, here we go. Links: Can Brian Chesky Save Airbnb? Jony Ive is bringing his design talents to... Airbnb Zillow reportedly needs to sell 7,000 houses after it bought too many City of New York and Airbnb Reach Settlement Agreement Airbnb hosts discriminate against black guests based on names, study suggests Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22547463 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, and Andrew Marino, our research was done by Liz Lian. And we are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks to Steven Yang, the CEO and founder of Anker Innovations. The conversation covers the full stack of Decoder topics: taking bets on new tech like gallium nitride, building a direct-to-consumer business on Amazon, and the complexity of managing the Amazon relationship, regulatory issues, platform fees — you name it. And all from a company that started making phone chargers. Anker is endlessly fascinating. Links: Anker CEO Steven Yang is all in on USB-C Amazon-Native Brand Anker Goes Public EU proposes mandatory USB-C on all devices, including iPhones Gallium nitride is the silicon of the future Video: Is gallium nitride the silicon of the future? Anker MagGo devices snap on for wireless iPhone charging in your car and home Amazon confirms it removed RavPower, a popular phone battery and charger brand Another Amazon-first gadget brand has suspiciously vanished: Choetech Doug DeMuro on Decoder Nebula Capsule II mini projector review: TV in a can Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22533880 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams, and Andrew Marino. We are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to a special Thursday edition of Decoder. You may have read on the site that Verge executive editor Dieter Bohn has been working on a documentary called Springboard: the secret history of the first real smartphone. It's about a company called Handspring and I think the Decoder audience will be really into this story so today we're interviewing Dieter. We talked about his documentary and he brought an exclusive clip that didn't make it into the film. That documentary is streaming now on The Verge's new streaming apps that you can get on your TV or set top box. We have them for Android, for Amazon Fire TV, for Roku and Apple TV. We've been working on these for a long time. It's a little more complicated than you might think to make these apps, make them good, distribute them on everyone's app stores, some real Decoder pain points in there. Links Springboard trailer and how to get the streaming apps Transcript https://www.theverge.com/e/22526129 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Facebook announced a major corporate rebrand by changing its company name to Meta. The new name is meant to solidify the social media giant’s longterm bet on building the metaverse. On this episode of Decoder, vice president of Reality Labs Andrew Bosworth talked with The Verge’s Alex Heath about Facebook’s rebrand to Meta, how content moderation will work in the metaverse, and the hardware journey from virtual to mixed reality, and eventually, AR glasses. Links: Mark Zuckerberg on why Facebook is rebranding to Meta Facebook is spending at least $10 billion this year on its metaverse division Eight things we learned from the Facebook Papers Facebook is planning to rebrand the company with a new name Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22517027 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Andrew Marino and we are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Adobe is one of those companies that I don’t think we pay enough attention to — it’s been around since 1982, and the entire creative economy runs through its software. You don’t just edit a photo, you Photoshop it. We spend a lot of time on Decoder talking about the creator economy, but creators themselves spend all their time working in Adobe’s tools. On this episode, I’m talking to Scott Belsky, chief product officer at Adobe, about the new features coming to their products, many of which focus on collaboration, and about creativity broadly — who gets to be a creative, where they might work, and how they get paid. Transcript Links: NFTs Explained Adobe brings a simplified Photoshop to the web Adobe is adding a collaborative mood board to Creative Cloud Soon you can use Photoshop to prepare your art as an NFT The Dog Ramps Tweet The Furry Lisa, CryptoArt, & The New Economy Of Digital Creativity A $120,000 Banana Is Peeled From an Art Exhibition and Eaten Adobe and Twitter are designing a system for permanently attaching artists’ names to pictures "I still own you" clip Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams, and Andrew Marino and we are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week we are talking to Jeep CEO Christian Meunier – and there’s a lot to talk about. Jeep just announced its second hybrid electric vehicle in the US, the Grand Cherokee 4xe. It also announced a plan for its first electric car in 2023, and to have EVs across the line by 2025, which is very soon. And it’s now part of a huge global car company called Stellantis. So I wanted to know: why start with hybrids, instead of jumping straight to EVs? What does it mean to be the CEO of a brand like Jeep inside of of a huge international company like Stellantis? How does the Jeep team make decisions about features and technology, and how much do they have to defer to a larger parent company? And what does it mean for Jeep, one of the most iconic American car brands, to be part of a huge global company now? Christian and I talked about all of that, as well as how the chip shortage is affecting Jeep, what cars will look like in 2040, and Jeep’s use of the name “Cherokee” in 2021. Yeah, this interview goes places. Links: The first plug-in hybrid Jeep Grand Cherokee is here Tested: 2021 Jeep Wrangler 4xe Complicates a Simple Machine 2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon 4xe: A Hybrid That Comes Up Short The electric Mustang Mach-E takes Ford in a whole new direction Jeep Badge of Honor App Jeep EV Day video Episode Transcript Credits: Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams, and Andrew Marino. And we are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

My guest today is Dave Limp, the senior vice president of devices and services at Amazon – or, more simply, the guy in charge of Alexa. Dave’s group at Amazon also includes the Kindle e-reader, the Ring and Blink security camera systems, the Eero wifi router, and a host of other products that connect to Amazon services.  We wanted to know what the business behind Alexa looks like — Amazon sells Echo products at basically break even, it runs the Alexa for all of them for free, and it employs thousands of engineers who work on it. How does that make money? How might it make money in the future? How should we think about Alexa competing with other smart assistants, and for what kinds of business? The answers were not what you’d expect. Links: Why the global chip shortage is making it so hard to buy a PS5 Amazon's new Ring Alarm Pro combines a security system with an Eero Router Say Hello to Astro, Alexa on wheels Amazon is now accepting your applications for its home surveillance drone Amazon Glow is a video chat gadget with built-in games to keep kids engaged Amazon’s new Echo Show 15 is meant to hang on your wall Amazon’s new Kindle Paperwhite adds a bigger screen, longer battery life, and USB-C Amazon starts making its own TVs with new Fire TV Omni and 4-Series Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K Max review: the one to buy How to connect Alexa to Spotify, Apple Music, and more Amazon's race to create the disappearing computer Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22483986 Credits: This episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams, and Andru Marino. And we are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In Land of the Giants: The Apple Revolution, Recode’s Peter Kafka explores the company that changed what a computer is — and then changed what a phone is. From its beginnings as a niche personal computer company, Apple became the preeminent maker of consumer tech products, a cultural trendsetter, and the most valuable company in the world. And along the way, it changed the way we live. Listen to Land of the Giants on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Waymo is working on self-driving taxis. Which is a huge deal. Ridesharing apps like Uber and Lyft have remade cities, allowed people to give up their cars, and generally connected the buttons you push on your phone to real things happening in the world more directly than almost any other app. Nilay Patel talked to Tekedra Mawakana, co-CEO of Waymo, about expanding Waymo’s service to other cities, the hurdles in place, and how she thinks the company will make money over time. We also talked about the regulatory issues the industry faces as it tries to roll out self-driving more broadly, and whether things like Tesla’s “full self driving” are confusing the issue or helping it.  This was a really fun conversation made even better because we recorded it live, on stage at Code Conference. Links: Meet the self-driving brains working with Tesla and Ford https://www.theverge.com/22627847/argo-ai-bryan-salesky-decoder-interview-lyft-self-driving   Ford CEO Jim Farley on building the electric F-150 -- and reinventing Ford  https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/20/22444294/ford-f150-lightning-pickup-truck-jim-farley-interview   Waymo CEO John Krafcik steps down, replaced by two co-CEOs https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/2/22364317/waymo-ceo-john-krafcik-stepping-down-self-driving-cars-google-alphabet   Riding in Waymo One, the Google spin-off’s first self-driving taxi service https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/5/18126103/waymo-one-self-driving-taxi-service-ride-safety-alphabet-cost-app   Waymo starts offering autonomous rides in San Francisco https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/24/22639226/waymo-san-francisco-rides-self-driving-service   Tesla opens ‘Full Self-Driving’ beta software to more customers https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/26/22693610/tesla-opens-full-self-driving-beta-software-more-customers   Waymo’s self-driving cars are now available on Lyft’s app in Phoenix https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/7/18536003/waymo-lyft-self-driving-ride-hail-app-phoenix   Google is spinning off its self-driving car program into a new company called Waymo https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/13/13936782/google-self-driving-car-waymo-spin-off-company   Car companies will have to report automated vehicle crashes under new rules https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/29/22555666/nhtsa-autonomous-vehicle-crash-report-data Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22472717 Credits: Host - Nilay Patel Lead Producer - Creighton DeSimone Associate Producer - Alexander Charles Adams Sr Audio Director - Andrew Marino Editor - Callie Wright Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks to John Carreyrou about his reporting on Theranos from his Wall Street Journal articles that broke the scandal in 2015 to his podcast covering the trial of Elizabeth Holmes today. Links: Bad Blood: The Final Chapter https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bad-blood-the-final-chapter/id1575738174 Theranos’ greatest invention was Elizabeth Holmes https://www.theverge.com/22656190/theranos-elizabeth-holmes-wire-fraud-trial-founder-myth Elizabeth Holmes is on trial for fraud over her time at Theranos https://www.theverge.com/22684354/elizabeth-holmes-trial-wire-fraud-theranos Apple Podcasts launches in-app subscriptions https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/20/22381980/apple-podcasts-app-subscriptions-new-design Hot startup Theranos has struggled with its blood-test technology https://www.wsj.com/articles/theranos-has-struggled-with-blood-tests-1444881901 *Tesla’s Autopilot was engaged when Model 3 crashed into truck, report states https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/16/18627766/tesla-autopilot-fatal-crash-delray-florida-ntsb-model-3   Uber halts self-driving tests after pedestrian killed in Arizona https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/19/17139518/uber-self-driving-car-fatal-crash-tempe-arizona   Elizabeth Holmes “was in charge” of Theranos, says Gen. Mattis https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/22/22689083/elizabeth-holmes-trial-james-mattis-testimony-theranos-fraud   Theranos reaches settlement with investor Partner Fund Management https://techcrunch.com/2017/05/01/theranos-reaches-settlement-with-investor-partner-fund-management/   Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22461304 Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams, and Andrew Marino. And we are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We talk a lot about the creator economy here on Decoder and one thing we’ve learned from all those conversations is that the creator economy is a market just like any other, with supply and demand, but that it’s also a market that is absolutely starved of information. So today I’m talking to Lindsey Lee Lugrin, the co-founder and CEO of a new platform called Fuck You Pay Me, which is an all-time great company name. FYPM is an app for creators to review and compare brand deals: what brands are paying, what it’s like to work with them, and whether people would work with them again. It’s kind of like Glassdoor or Yelp for influencers. Links The quirks and features of YouTube car reviews with Doug DeMuro https://www.theverge.com/22637871/doug-demuro-car-reviews-youtube-decoder-interview Advertising is complicated, but Melissa Grady is very good at it https://www.theverge.com/22174582/decoder-podcast-interview-cadillac-cmo-melissa-grady-advertising YouTube chief product officer Neal Mohan on the algorithm, monetization, and the future for creators https://www.theverge.com/22606296/youtube-shorts-fund-neal-mohan-decoder-interview The App With the Unprintable Name That Wants to Give Power to Creators https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/02/technology/fypm-creators-app-pay.html Introduction to smart contracts  https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/smart-contracts/ The golden age of YouTube is over  https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/5/18287318/youtube-logan-paul-pewdiepie-demonetization-adpocalypse-premium-influencers-creators Transcript https://www.theverge.com/e/22448278 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week on Decoder we are doing something a little different. We're talking with Charlie Harding, co-host of the podcast Switched on Pop a podcast about pop music, about the state of the music industry particularly as it relates to copyright. The conversation is framed around Olivia Rodrigo's debut album Sour and why she keeps handing out songwriting credits months after the album was released. This is kind of a hybrid between an episode of Decoder and an episode of Switched on Pop. We play a lot of music throughout the episode and in case you want to go back and listen to full songs we've made playlists for both Spotify and Apple Music. Spotify - https://spoti.fi/3nuMTt7 Apple Music - https://apple.co/3986hUw Links Olivia Rodrigo Studied All the Right Moves  https://www.vulture.com/2021/05/olivia-rodrigo-sour-album-review Why Taylor Swift is rerecording all her old songs https://www.vox.com/culture/22278732/taylor-swift-re-recording-fearless-love-story-master-rights-scooter-braun Olivia Rodrigo Gives Taylor Swift Songwriting Credit on Second ‘Sour’ Song, ‘Deja Vu’ https://variety.com/2021/music/news/olivia-rodrigo-taylor-swift-songwriting-credit-deja-vu-1235015769/ Olivia Rodrigo Adds Paramore to Songwriting Credits on ‘Good 4 U’ https://variety.com/2021/music/news/olivia-rodrigo-paramore-good-4-u-misery-business-1235048791/ ‘Blurred Lines’ Copyright Suit Against Robin Thicke, Pharrell Ends in $5M Judgment https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/robin-thicke-pharrell-williams-blurred-lines-copyright-suit-final-5-million-dollar-judgment-768508/   Katy Perry Wins Appeal in ‘Dark Horse’ Infringement Case https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/katy-perry-dark-horse-copyright-win-appeal-969009/   Led Zeppelin Wins Long ‘Stairway to Heaven’ Copyright Case https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/05/arts/music/stairway-to-heaven-led-zeppelin-lawsuit.html   Isley Feels Vindicated In Bolton Case https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/78775/isley-feels-vindicated-in-bolton-case Transcript - https://www.theverge.com/e/22436745 The Verge is turning 10 and we're throwing a party in New York City! Purchase tickets here - https://bit.ly/2YRI8iR This episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams, and Andrew Marino. We were edited by Callie Wright. And our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Apple has had a lot going on lately: we did a whole episode about the controversial child protection photo scanning features, which have now been delayed. A law in South Korea might force the company to change how App Store payments work; the company settled a Japanese case about the App Store recently, as well as a class-action lawsuit in this country. The verdict in the Epic trial will arrive and there are renewed questions about Apple’s relationship with the Chinese government. And, of course, it’s September — the month when new iPhones usually come out. But in the background, Verge senior reporter Zoë Schiffer has spent the past few months publishing story after story about unhappy Apple employees, who are starting to talk to the press more and more about what working at Apple is like, and how they’d like it to change. Nilay Patel talks to Zoë about the work she's been doing and what the future holds. Links: Here’s why Apple’s new child safety features are so controversial https://bit.ly/3n9E07W Apple delays controversial child protection features after privacy outcry https://bit.ly/38QdWX2 Apple and Google must allow developers to use other payment systems, new Korean law declares https://bit.ly/3BQeXeb Apple concedes to let apps like Netflix, Spotify, and Kindle link to the web to sign up https://bit.ly/3kT88Sg Epic Games v. Apple: the fight for the future of the App Store https://bit.ly/3ySf873 Slack CEO Stewart Butterfield on competing with Microsoft, the future of work, and managing all those notifications https://bit.ly/2VqBZck Apple employees circulate petition demanding investigation into “misogynistic” new hire https://bit.ly/3h4Sqm4 “Misogynistic” Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation https://bit.ly/3naaL5c Apple asks staff to return to office three days a week starting in early September https://bit.ly/3yNcUWn Apple employees push back against returning to the office in internal letter https://bit.ly/3BJYSXy Apple delays mandatory return to office until January 2022, citing COVID-19 surge https://bit.ly/3l433H5 Apple places female engineering program manager on administrative leave after tweeting about sexism in the office https://bit.ly/3jNwuO0 Google fires prominent AI ethicist Timnit Gebru https://bit.ly/3toFXhZ Apple Shareholders Show Their Support for Tim Cook https://nyti.ms/3tkAn01 Apple says all US employees now receive equal pay for equal work https://bit.ly/3zSbpYj Apple keeps shutting down employee-run surveys on pay equity -- and labor lawyers say it’s illegal https://bit.ly/3BNa85E Apple says it has pay equity, but an informal employee survey suggests otherwise https://bit.ly/3zSJYh0 Apple just banned a pay equity Slack channel but lets fun dogs channel lie https://bit.ly/3hbiyvB Apple employees are organizing, now under the banner #AppleToo https://bit.ly/3hazJNP Here’s what we know about the Google union so far https://bit.ly/2WWNfNK Google employees push back after mishandled sexual harassment revelations https://bit.ly/3DUVv23 Apple cares about privacy, unless you work at Apple https://www.theverge.com/22648265/apple-employee-privacy-icloud-id Black women say Pinterest created a den of discromination -- despite its image as the nicest company in tech https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/07/03/pinterest-race-bias-black-employees/ Apple ordered to pay California store workers for time spent waiting for bag searches https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/3/21419729/apple-california-pay-workers-class-action-bag-searches Read the transcript here: https://www.theverge.com/e/22423538 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Since the beginning of the pandemic, the demand for microchips has far exceeded supply, causing problems in every industry that relies on computers. And if you’re a Decoder listener, you know that that is every industry. Right now, major automakers have unfinished cars sitting in parking lots waiting for chips to be installed. Game consoles like the PS5 and Xbox Series X are impossible to find. And even things like microwaves and refrigerators are impacted, because they contain simple controller chips.  So we realized it was time to figure out what caused the chip shortage, why that happened, and how we are going to get out of it.  My guest today is Dr. Willy Shih. He’s the professor of management practices at Harvard Business School. He’s an expert on chips and semiconductors — he spent years working at companies like IBM and Silicon Graphics. And he’s also an expert in supply chains — how things go from raw materials to finished products in stores. Willy’s the guy that grocery stores and paper companies called in March 2020 when there was a run on toilet paper. If anyone’s going to explain this thing, it’s going to be Willy. Links: What toilet paper can teach us about supply chains https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihd7XJMzdG4 The latest in the global semiconductor shortage https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/2/22363232/global-semiconductor-chip-shortage-pandemic-consoles-cpus-graphics-cards-cars Ford to build some F-150 trucks without certain parts due to global chip shortage https://techcrunch.com/2021/03/18/ford-to-build-some-f-150-trucks-without-certain-parts-due-to-global-chip-shortage/ Situation regarding semiconductor plant fire and product supply https://www.akm.com/us/en/about-us/news/information/20210122-information/ Samsung forced to halt chip production in Austin due to power outages https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/17/22287054/samsung-chip-production-halted-austin-winter-storm-uri-power-blackouts   About that White House meeting to discuss the semiconductor supply chain https://www.forbes.com/sites/willyshih/2021/04/12/about-that-white-house-meeting-to-discuss-the-semiconductor-supply-chain/?sh=63b7f65b1641   Ford CEO Jim Farley on building the electric F-150 -- and reinventing Ford https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/20/22444294/ford-f150-lightning-pickup-truck-jim-farley-interview   Senate approves billions for US semiconductor manufacturing https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/8/22457293/semiconductor-chip-shortage-funding-frontier-china-competition-act   Intel invests $20 billion into new factories, will produce chips for other companies https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/23/22347250/intel-new-factories-arizona-20-billion-chips-outsourcing-foundry-services-manufacturing   Apple supplier TSMC confirms it’s building an Arizona chip plant https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/14/21259094/apple-tsmc-factory-chips-arizona-a-series   Biden-⁠Harris Administration announces Supply Chain Disruptions Task Force to address short-term supply chain discontinuities https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/06/08/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-supply-chain-disruptions-task-force-to-address-short-term-supply-chain-discontinuities/   Water shortages loom over future semiconductor fabs in Arizona https://www.theverge.com/22628925/water-semiconductor-shortage-arizona-drought Transcript https://www.theverge.com/e/22412413 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks with Doug DeMuro, who reviews cars on YouTube for almost 10 years. Nilay and Doug talk about the economics of YouTube, how Doug feels about the platform, and about the new company he co-founded called Cars and Bids. Read the transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22401912 Decoder is produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams and Andrew Marino. We are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I'm talking to Bryan Salesky, the cofounder and CEO of Argo AI, a startup that's trying to build the tech stack for self-driving cars. Argo just launched a small fleet of robotaxis in Miami and Austin in partnership with Lyft. I wanted to talk to Bryan about his partnership with Lyft, but I also wanted to know if the pandemic accelerated any of his investment or development the way we have seen in other industries. After all, the proposition of having a taxi all to yourself is pretty enticing in the COVID era, and lots of people moving away from offices to work from home might love having a car that gets them to and from a central office a couple days a week. Of course, I also had to ask about 5G. Is 5G enabling any of Argo's current self-driving technology? Does he see 5G as a benefit in the future? His answer might surprise you… unless you're a regular listener of this show. Then it won't surprise you one bit. Read the transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22391888 Decoder is produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams and Andrew Marino. And we are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel is joined by Riana Pfefferkorn and Jennifer King to talk about Apple's new child safety features. Riana and Jen are both researchers at Stanford and between the two of them have expertise in encryption policies and consumer privacy issues. Guest Bio: Riana Pfefferkorn: http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/about/people/riana-pfefferkorn Jennifer King: http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/about/people/jen-king Links: Apple reveals new efforts to fight child abuse imagery: https://www.theverge.com/e/22375762 WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan: https://www.theverge.com/e/22377406 Apple pushes back against child abuse scanning concerns in new FAQ: https://www.theverge.com/e/22380422 Apple's Plan to "Think Different" About Encryption Opens a Backdoor to Your Private Life: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/08/apples-plan-think-different-about-encryption-opens-backdoor-your-private-life Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22381595 Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams, and Andrew Marino. And we are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices