Decoder with Nilay Patel

We’ve been talking a lot this year about the changing internet, and what it’s doing to the media ecosystem — particularly journalism, which has taken a backseat to creators and influencers. But the tech platforms themselves have a lot of influence over what those creators and influencers make, too. If you’re a Decoder listener, you’ll recognize this as one of my common themes — the idea that the way we distribute media directly influences the media we make.  To break this all down, I invited media critic and labor union president Matt Pearce on the show to discuss a great blog he wrote titled “Lessons on media policy at the slaughter-bench of history.” We get into what mechanisms can be used to fund journalism, and how building a direct audience and exercising control over distribution is more pivotal than ever.  Links:  Lessons on media policy at the slaughter-bench of history | Matt Pearce Journalism's fight for survival in a postliterate democracy | Matt Pearce A deep dive into Google's shady (and shoddy) California journalism deal | Matt Pearce Google Zero is here — now what? | Decoder Casey Newton on surviving the great media collapse and what comes next | Decoder Illusory Truth Effect | The Decision Lab The people who ruined the internet | The Verge Another independent site says Google killed its business | The Verge Google ‘can’t guarantee’ that independent sites will recover | The Verge Owner of Los Angeles Times Plans ‘Bias Meter’ Next to Coverage | NYT Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There’s something strange happening these days in the podcast world — in particular, the way companies that deal in money have been using podcasting as not just an entertainment medium, but a unique kind of hybrid of marketing, thought leadership, and networking. Guest host David Pierce and Vulture podcast critic Nick Quah break it all down.  Links:  How Venture Capitalists Use Podcasts to Lure in Founders | Vanity Fair Your Next Podcast Interview Might Be a Meeting In Disguise | Bloomberg Elliott launches podcast in attack ploy aimed at Southwest | Axios How podcasts became the new battleground state | Vulture In the “Podcast Election,” Trump talked to vastly more people | Edison Research Podcasts become politician magnets | Axios Founders of podcast ‘Acquired’ are raising an investment fund | GeekWire Podcaster-turned-VC Harry Stebbings raises $400m for third fund | Sifted Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Mustafa Suleyman, the CEO of Microsoft AI. Mustafa is a fascinating character in the world of AI — he’s been in and out of some pivotal companies like DeepMind, which he cofounded, and Google. He landed at Microsoft through a unique not-quite-acquisition deal of his latest startup, Inflection AI.  As CEO of Microsoft AI, Mustafa now oversees all of its consumer AI products, including the Copilot app, Bing, and even the Edge browser and MSN — two core components of the web experience that feel like they’re radically changing in a world of AI. The company has also a unique relationship with OpenAI, one that’s grown more complicated of late. That’s a lot of Decoder bait, and we really get into it.  Links:  Google DeepMind co-founder joins Microsoft as CEO of its new AI division | The Verge This is Big Tech’s playbook for swallowing the AI industry | Command Line The new AI deal: buy everything but the company | NYT Sam Altman lowers the bar for AGI | The Verge OpenAI seeks to unlock investment by ditching ‘AGI’ clause with Microsoft | FT ​​Microsoft needs to win back trust | The Verge Microsoft’s AI boss thinks it’s okay to steal content if it’s on the open web | The Verge Read Microsoft’s optimistic memo about the future of AI companions | The Verge ​​Microsoft gives Copilot a voice and vision in its biggest redesign yet | The Verge How Microsoft is thinking about the future of Copilot and AI hardware | The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24078862 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

AI investment is massive, but AI profits are not — and yet investors seem confident massive AI fundraising will one day translate into sizable AI profits. To break it down, Verge Deputy Editor Alex Heath guest hosts this episode of Decoder featuring Menlo Ventures partner Tim Tully and AirStreet Capital founder Nathan Benaich.  Links:  2024: The State of Generative AI in the Enterprise | Menlo Ventures State of AI Report | Nathan Benaich AI Index Report 2024 | Stanford HAL How companies are spending on AI right now | Tech Brew OpenAI Is growing fast and burning through piles of money | NYT Amazon to invest another $4 billion in OpenAI rival Anthropic | The Verge Agents are the future AI companies promise — and desperately need | The Verge Anthropic’s latest AI update can use a computer on its own | The Verge OpenAI reportedly plans to launch an AI agent early next year | The Verge Is AI hitting a wall? | Command Line Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bluesky has really taken off since the election, and since the Decoder team took some time off for Thanksgiving break, we felt it was a great time to bring back the interview we did earlier this year with Jay Graber, the CEO of Bluesky, the upstart competitor to Meta’s Threads and the platform formerly known as Twitter.  At the time, Bluesky was a pretty small platform. It had just reached 5 million users when Jay and I spoke. But since the election, Bluesky’s growth has absolutely skyrocketed to more than 20 million users, and it's starting to put real competitive pressure on Threads at the feature level. As Bluesky really ramps up, it seemed like a great time to engage with some of the core questions behind its design and see if Jay and her team can keep it up. Links:  Twitter’s heir apparent isn’t X or Threads — it’s Bluesky | The Verge Bluesky now has more than 20 million users | The Verge Bluesky moves deeper into moderation hell | The Verge Twitter is funding research into a decentralized version of its platform | The Verge Bluesky built a decentralized protocol for Twitter | The Verge The fediverse, explained | The Verge Bluesky showed everyone’s ass | The Verge Can ActivityPub save the internet? | The Verge Bluesky snags former Twitter/X Trust & Safety exec cut by Musk | TechCrunch Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech — Mike Masnick Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23872913 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I spoke with GoDaddy CEO Aman Bhutani live on stage last week at an event hosted by Alix Partners in Palo Alto. GoDaddy is one of those companies that feels tied to an earlier era, but Aman’s been CEO since 2019, and he’s been building out what he calls adjacencies. The business of the web has really changed in the past few years: the walled-garden, social network era really took over in the past decade, and now huge changes to Google Search and the addition of generative AI have really put a massive strain on the very foundations of the open web. So I started out by asking Aman the question I’ve asked so many other guests on Decoder in the past year: What is the point of a website in 2024? Links:  If GoDaddy can turn the corner on sexism, who can’t? | New York Times (2017) Google Zero is here – now what? | Decoder Five for the Future – GoDaddy | WordPress.org 2024 is shaping up to be the smallest Black Friday ever | GoDaddy GoDaddy’s mission to get entrepreneurs up and running fast | Forbes GoDaddy launches a suite of AI tools for small businesses | Fast Company Why make a website? Squarespace CEO Anthony Casalena has ideas | Decoder Wix CEO Avishai Abrahami on why the web isn’t dying after all | Decoder How WordPress and Tumblr are keeping the internet weird | Decoder Intuit CEO Sasan Goodarzi | Decoder Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24069405 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Travis Larchuck and Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For nearly 20 years now, the web has been Google’s platform; we’ve all just lived on it. Google is constantly changing that platform — it launched another attempt to combat ‘parasite SEO’ just this week — and not all of those changes have worked well. Earlier this year I talked to a lot of people who have built on that platform. For a lot of small businesses and content creators, that’s suddenly not stable anymore. The number one question I have for anyone building things on someone else’s platform is: What are you going to do when that platform changes the rules? Links:  Google is cracking down on sites publishing parasite SEO content | The Verge How Google is killing independent sites like ours | HouseFresh HouseFresh has virtually disappeared from Google results. Now what? | HouseFresh Google Is Killing Retro Dodo & Other Independent Sites | Retro Dodo Google CEO Sundar Pichai on AI-powered search and the future of the web | The Verge Will AI break the internet? Or save it? | The New York Times The biggest findings in the Google Search leak | The Verge Mountain Weekly News Telly Visions E-ride Hero That Fit Friend Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone, it’s Nilay — Decoder is on a short break this week. We’ll be back with a special live interview episode on Monday of next week, and then regular programming will resume in December. I’m very excited for what we have coming up on the schedule.  But while we’re out, we’d like to highlight a great episode of a new podcast from our friends over at Vox called Explain It To Me. On this episode, host Jonquilyn Hill and her team tackle a decision that looms large for a lot of young people in America: How and when should you start saving for retirement — and will it even matter in a future of big, often scary uncertainties about work in the age of AI and the climate crisis?  Links:  Explain It To Me | Apple Podcasts Will the world end before I can retire? | Vox Vox launches Explain It to Me franchise to answer audience questions | Explain It To Me The doomers are wrong about humanity’s future — and its past | Vox Against doomerism | Vox End Times: A Brief Guide to the End of the World | Bryan Walsh Here's how self-made millionaire Vivian Tu created wealth | CNBC Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we’re talking about Elon Musk, Donald Trump, and Tesla — and I have to say, it feels like the first of many episodes about these three characters that we’ll be doing over the course of the next four years. Because when Elon used his wealth and influence to help Trump get elected, he also bought himself a seat at the president-elect’s inner circle. But what does the world’s richest person really want in return? And how is the CEO of an electric car company, an outspoken advocate for combating climate change, going to square his support for Trump and a Republican policy agenda centered on climate change denial? Verge transportation editor Andy Hawkins joins me this week to make sense of it all, and to figure out how Elon and Tesla may still benefit, even if Trump's climate policy reversals and tariffs lay waste to the auto industry. Links:  What does Trump’s election mean for EVs, Tesla, and Elon Musk? | The Verge This election will decide what kind of car you’ll buy | The Verge Trump says Musk will lead ‘DOGE’ office to cut ‘wasteful’ government spending | The Verge Elon Musk attends Trump's first post-election meeting with House Republicans | CNBC At Mar-a-Lago, ‘Uncle’ Elon Musk puts his imprint on the Trump transition | NYT Musk believes in global warming. Trump does not. Will that change? | NYT Elon Musk helped elect Trump? What does he expect in return? | NYT With ready orders and an energy czar, Trump plots pivot to fossil fuels | NYT Tesla hits $1 trillion market value as Musk-backed Trump win fans optimism | Reuters Trump’s return dims outlook for Chinese EV makers amid tariff threats | SCMP Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Harvey Mason, Jr is CEO of the Recording Academy, the nonprofit organization most famous for the Grammy Awards. We spoke right before this year's Grammy nominations came out, and you'll hear us talk a whole lot about the changes he's tried to make with how the awarding membership works. I always say to watch what’s happening to the music industry because it’s a preview into what will happen to every other creative industry five years later. My chat with Harvey really drove the point home: AI, diversity, streaming distribution... it's all here, and all the tensions that come with. Links:  2025 Grammy nominations: The complete list | NPR The Grammys Move From CBS To Disney In Major 10-Year Deal | Deadline Recording Academy boots Grammy voters | Los Angeles Times Chappell Roan and the problem with fandom | Vox Grammys CEO: Music that contains AI-created elements is eligible | AP News Deborah Dugan Grammys Controversy: What to Know | Time For Taylor Swift, the Future of Music Is a Love Story | Wall Street Journal (2014) AI is on a collision course with music | Decoder Elvis Costello defends Olivia Rodrigo over ‘Brutal’ plagiarism claim | BBC Why Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen thinks AI is the future | Decoder Transcript:  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we’re talking about work. Specifically, where we work, how our expectations of working remotely were radically changed by the pandemic, and how those expectations feel like they’re on the verge of changing yet again. For many people, the pendulum has swung wildly between working fully remote and now a push to return to the office from their bosses, and there are a lot of theories about what might really be motivating big companies to try and bring everyone back. To explain it, I caught up with two experts on the subject: Stephan Meier, a professor of business strategy at Columbia Business School, and Jessica Kriegel, the chief strategy officer at workplace culture consultancy Culture Partners. We dive into what’s been happening to the nature of work today, and whether Amazon, which just announced a major return to the office five days a week, is part of a bigger trend.  Links: Amazon is making its employees come back to the office five days a week | The Verge Amazon CEO denies 5-day office mandate is a ‘backdoor layoff’ | CNBC Bob Iger tells Disney employees they must return to the office four days a week | CNBC A quarter of bosses admit return-to-office mandates meant to make staff quit | Fortune More Americans now prefer hybrid over fully remote work, survey finds | Axios Google tells staff: stay productive and we’ll stay flexible | BI The list of major companies requiring employees to return to the office | BI Thinking Inside the Box: Why Virtual Meetings Generate Fewer Ideas | Columbia Duolingo CEO Luis von Ahn wants you addicted to learning | Decoder Sundar Pichai on managing Google through the pandemic | Vergecast Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Baris Cetinok, who is in charge of all the software in the cars that GM makes, which is a lot of cars. And if you’ve been following any of the drama in the world of car software, you know it also means Baris is the guy who has to defend GM’s decision to drop Apple CarPlay and Android Auto from most of its cars, especially EVs.  I’ve had versions of this conversation with the CEOs of car companies before, but Baris is in charge of actually building this stuff. So we really got into the weeds here on what this looks like, the major trade-offs, and why he thinks it’s ultimately the right path for GM.  Links:  GM names new leaders of software organization | The Detroit News GM is cutting off access to Apple CarPlay & Android Auto for its future EVs | The Verge Will GM Regret Kicking Apple CarPlay off the Dashboard? | Bloomberg Rivian CEO: CarPlay isn’t going to happen | Decoder Volvo CEO thinks dropping CarPlay is a mistake | Decoder GM Ultifi software platform will roll out in 2023 | The Verge Android Auto vs. Android Automotive vs. Google Automotive Services | Android Police GM plans another big Super Cruise hands-free expansion | The Verge GM will start making money on EVs this year | The Verge How GM plans to beat Google, Apple at car software | Motor Trend Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24049622 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Trump and a bunch of billionaires, like Elon Musk, are calling for the FCC to punish TV stations by revoking their licenses and using the spectrum for other stuff. In a normal world, this would be idle billionaire wishcasting. Punishing news organizations is one of those things we have a First Amendment to protect against. You know — the one that protects free speech by prohibiting the government from making speech regulations or punishing people for what they say?   But, it turns out, there is a long and complex history of the government regulating speech on broadcast platforms like radio and television — and that history dovetails into many of the problems we have regulating tech companies and social platforms today. Verge senior tech and policy editor Adi Robertson joins me to dive in. Links:  The Verge guide to the 2024 US presidential election | The Verge FCC chair rejects Trump’s call to revoke CBS license over Harris interview | The Verge Florida official who resigned after letter to TV stations blames DeSantis’ office | MSNBC “To keep it simple for the state of Florida: It’s the First Amendment, stupid” | The Verge How America turned against the First Amendment | The Verge Why Sen. Brian Schatz thinks child safety can trump the First Amendment | The Verge How the Kids Online Safety Act puts us all at risk | The Verge Here’s a bunch of bananas shit Trump said today about breaking up Google | The Verge Barack Obama on AI, free speech, and the future of the internet | The Verge Why you’re seeing those gross political ads during the World Series | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky, who is only the second person to be on Decoder three times — the other is Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg. Brian made a lot of waves earlier this year when he started talking about something called “founder mode,” or at least, when well-known investor Paul Graham wrote a blog post about Brian’s approach to running Airbnb that gave it that name. Founder mode has since become a little bit of a meme, and I was excited to have Brian back on to talk about it, and what specifically he thinks it means. Talking to Brian is a ride, but I think I held my own, and I think you’ll really like this one. Links: Founder Mode | Paul Graham Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky is taking it back to basics (2023) | Decoder Why the future of work is the future of travel, with Airbnb’s Brian Chesky (2021) | Decoder Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky: ‘I Never Called it Founder Mode’ | Skift Why Silicon Valley is abuzz over ‘Founder Mode’ | NYT After Apple, Jony Ive Is Building an Empire of His Own | NYT Airbnb can now help you find somebody to manage your listing | The Verge Airbnb creates new chief business officer role | Reuters Why Jeff Bezos Says Your Goal Is to Make 3 Good Decisions per Day | Inc Taking the Mystery out of Scaling a Company | Ben Horowtiz Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24043611 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we’re going to try and figure out "digital god." I figured we’ve been doing Decoder long enough, let’s just get after it. Can we build an artificial intelligence so powerful it changes the world and answers all our questions? The AI industry has decided the answer is yes.  In September, OpenAI’s Sam Altman published a blog post claiming we’ll have superintelligent AI in “a few thousand days.” And earlier this month, Dario Amodei, the CEO of Anthropic published a 14,000-word post laying out what he thinks such a system will be capable of when it does arrive, which he says could be as soon as 2026. Verge senior AI reporter Kylie Robison joins me on the show to break it all down.  Links:  Machines of Loving Grace | Dario Amodei The Intelligence Age | Sam Altman Anthropic’s CEO thinks AI will lead to a utopia | The Verge AI manifestos flood the tech zone | Axios OpenAI just raised $6.6 billion to build ever-larger AI models | The Verge OpenAI was a research lab — now it’s just another tech company | The Verge California governor vetoes major AI safety bill | The Verge Inside the white-hot center of AI doomerism | NYT Microsoft and OpenAI’s close partnership shows signs of fraying | NYT The $14 Billion question dividing OpenAI and Microsoft | WSJ Anthropic has floated $40 Billion valuation in funding talks | The Information Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today’s episode, well — it’s a ride. I’m talking to Intuit CEO Sasan Goodarzi, who’s built Intuit into a juggernaut business software company in part through a series of major acquisitions: TurboTax, MailChimp, CreditKarma, and loads more. There’s a lot of good Decoder material there, and we get into it.  But it’s TurboTax, and the company’s tax lobbying efforts to protect it, that really drives a major narrative about Intuit, for better and worse. So you can bet I asked Sasan about all this, and it got a bit contentious. In fact, the company's chief communications officer even demanded we delete a portion of this interview over an exchange with Sasan on TurboTax. Don’t worry — we don’t do that here at The Verge. So expect to hear that section right up top, with the rest of the interview following after. Links: Inside TurboTax’s 20-year fight to stop Americans from filing taxes for free| ProPublica TurboTax deliberately hid free file page from Google Search | ProPublica TurboTax maker Intuit spent millions in record lobbying blitz | OpenSecrets FTC: Intuit’s “free” TurboTax ads misled consumers | The Verge TurboTax isn’t allowed to say it’s ‘free’ anymore | The Verge Intuit owes you money if it made you pay for TurboTax “free” | The Verge IRS extends its Free File tax program for five more years | The Verge IRS Direct File set to expand availability in a dozen new states | IRS Mint is shutting down, and it’s pushing users toward Credit Karma | The Verge Intuit Mailchimp CEO Rania Succar on Decoder | Decoder Ethics Statement | The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24037861 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today’s episode is a little different: Digitas CEO Amy Lanzi and I recorded this conversation live on stage during advertising week in New York City at an event graciously hosted by Adweek.  I've actually been dying to talk to Amy. Digitas is one of the most important agencies in the entire advertising business with huge clients and massive influence over big platforms like Instagram and YouTube. After all, they're the ones buying the ads that keep all of those companies afloat. As you'd expect, she has a lot of thoughts about influencers, creators, AI, and everything that is going to change the advertising industry in the months and years to come. Links:  Publicis Groupe acquires influencer-marketing giant Influential | Marketing Dive Epsilon has first Digital CDP to provide native omni-channel activation | Epsilon Stagwell is on the hunt for adtech as the ad company continues its acquisition spree | BI Emma Chamberlain Is the People’s Influencer | Allure Inside the World of Sephora Squad | Marketing Scoop Fanatics Launches Fanatics Live, a Next-Gen Live Commerce Platform | Fanatics There’s no AI without the cloud, says AWS CEO Adam Selipsky | The Verge A Google breakup is on the table, say DOJ lawyers | The Verge For Gen Z, TikTok Is the New Search Engine | The New York Times Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Luis von Ahn is the co-founder and CEO of Duolingo. There are lots of opportunities to enhance a product like Duolingo with AI, and we talk about all that — but I also wanted to talk to Luis about learning, generally. Duolingo is a global product, and there are a lot of tech tensions there, dealing with different user needs worldwide. We talk about it all in a pretty direct way... including all those unhinged things the owl does on social media. Links:  Duolingo Introduces AI-Powered Innovations at Duocon 2024 (Duolingo) Video Call with Lily (Duolingo / YouTube) AI Boosts Duolingo As Company Posts First Profit (Nasdaq) Foreign Language Training (US State Department) Exploring My Villain Origin Story (Duolingo / TikTok) Duolingo cuts workers as it relies more on AI (The Washington Post) Why Silicon Valley Is Talking About Founder Mode (The New York Times) Duolingo's Math and Music lessons finally hit Android a year after iOS (Android Police) Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky on taking it back to basics (Decoder / The Verge) How Duolingo is using its 'unhinged content' with Duo the Owl (Digiday) How we turned Duo's butt into a viral Super Bowl commercial (Duolingo) A Duolingo employee has apologised for joking about Amber Heard (The Tab)  Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24031882 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m talking with my good friend David Pierce, Vergecast co-host and The Verge’s editor-at-large, about something he spends an ungodly amount of time thinking and writing about: software. Scores of new workplace apps are cropping with clever metaphors to try to make us work differently. Sometimes that works… and sometimes it really, really doesn’t. And it feels like the addition of AI to the mix will accelerate the pace of experimentation here in pretty radical ways. Links:  Why software is eating the world | Wall Street Journal (2011) Mailchimp CEO Rania Succar on why email makes sense for Intuit | The Verge Why would anyone make a website in 2023? | The Verge Wix CEO Avishai Abrahami isn’t worried AI will kill the web | The Verge Figma CEO Dylan Field is optimistic about AI | The Verge We don’t sell saddles here | Stewart Butterfield (2014) The CEO of Zoom wants AI clones in meetings | The Verge Dropbox CEO Drew Houston wants you to embrace AI | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rabbit’s adorable R1 gadget launched with a lot of hype, but early reviews of the device were universally bad. Now, a core feature, its long-promised LAM Playground has arrived. I had a lot of big questions for CEO Jesse Lyu about how it all works — not just technologically, but if his plans are sustainable from a business and legal perspective.  Links:  Rabbit R1 review: an unfinished, unhelpful AI gadget | The Verge Loopholes aren’t a technology | Buzzfeed News (2012) I tested Rabbit R1's next generation LAM — and it tried to gaslight me | Tom’s Hardware I tried Rabbit's LAM Playground, and I'm still disappointed | Android Authority Rabbit's AI bot will try to help you do anything (keyword is 'try') | Fast Company Rabbit’s web-based ‘large action model’ agent arrives on R1 October 1 | TechCrunch Rabbit R1 founder defends “unfinished” AI gadget | City AM AI hardware is in its flip-phone phase | Fast Company The iPhone 16 will ship as a work in progress | The Verge Humane AI Pin review: Not even close | The Verge Marques Brownlee says ‘I hear you’ after fans criticize his new wallpaper app | The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24024222 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Jason Schreier, a Bloomberg journalist and author of the new book Play Nice: The Rise, Fall, and Future of Blizzard Entertainment. If you don’t know Blizzard, you do know its games — the studio behind Warcraft, Diablo, and Overwatch has achieved legendary status over three decades. At the same time, the company has become emblematic of many of gaming’s biggest failings. Jason’s book is out on October 8th, and it’s an incredible, detailed accounting of how Blizzard started, grew into a hitmaker and, eventually, became a victim of its own mismanagement. Oh, and there are a series of chaotic acquisitions along the way, culminating in Microsoft’s purchase of Activision Blizzard last year. In this episode, Jason and I get into all of this and more.  Links:  Play Nice: The Rise, Fall and Future of Blizzard Entertainment | Hachette  How Blizzard’s canceled MMO Titan fell apart | Polygon Blizzard was built on crunch, co-founder says, but it’s ‘not sustainable’ | Polygon Inside Activision and Blizzard’s corporate warcraft | Bloomberg Blizzard cofounder’s new company Dreamhaven aims to recreate old magic | Bloomberg Activision Blizzard’s rot goes all the way to the CEO, alleges report | The Verge Activision Blizzard’s workplace problems spurred $75 billion microsoft Deal | WSJ California settles Activision Blizzard gender discrimination lawsuit | The Verge Microsoft completes Activision Blizzard acquisition | The Verge Microsoft lays off 1,900 Activision Blizzard and Xbox employees | The Verge Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Matt Strauss is the Chairman of Direct-to-Consumer at NBC Universal. That’s a big fancy title that means he’s not only in charge of Peacock but also every other streaming video offering the company has worldwide. So you can bet Matt and I got into what that structure even looks like, and how it all operates under the overall ownership of Comcast, which is in the middle of its own massive transition as its traditional cable TV business continues to fade. There’s a lot in this one – tech, media, sports, and culture, all at once. It’s quite a ride. Links:  Comcast's new DVR ditches the hard drive, stores your recordings in the cloud (The Verge, 2013) Comcast and Charter Lost Another 269,000 Broadband Customers Last Quarter (The Motley Fool) It's official, people aren't watching TV as much as they used to (The Verge) The future of TV is up in the air (The Verge) Peacock Quarterly Loss Narrows to $348M as Subscribers Drop to 33M (THR) OTA and free online video drives higher US TV-video viewing hours (S&P Global) Streaming was part of the future — now it’s the only future (The Verge) US pay-TV losses reach a nadir (Light Reading) The 2024 Olympics were a big win for TV of all kinds (The Verge) Court blocks Disney-Fox-WBD sports streaming bundle (The Verge) An AI version of Al Michaels will deliver Olympic recaps on Peacock  (The Verge) Transcript:  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We have a very special episode of Decoder today. It’s become a tradition every fall to have Verge deputy editor Alex Heath interview Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg on the show at Meta Connect. This year, before his interview with Mark, Alex got to try a new pair of experimental AR glasses the company is calling Orion.  Alex talked to Mark about a whole lot more, including why the company is investing so heavily in AR, why he's shifted away from politics, Mark's thoughts on the link between teen mental health and social media, and why the Meta chief executive is done apologizing for corporate scandals like Cambridge Analytica that he feels were overblown and misrepresented.   Links: Hands-on with Orion, Meta’s first pair of AR glasses | The Verge The biggest news from Meta Connect 2024 | The Verge Mark Zuckerberg: publishers ‘overestimate the value’ of their work for training AI | The Verge Meta extends its Ray-Ban smart glasses deal beyond 2030 | The Verge The Ray-Ban Meta smart glasses actually make the future look cool | The Verge Meta has a major opportunity to win the AI hardware race | The Verge Instagram is putting every teen into more private and restrictive new account | The Verge Threads isn’t for news and politics, says Instagram’s boss | The Verge Facebook puts news on the back burner | The Verge Meta is losing a billion dollars on VR and AR every single month | The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24017522 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt; our editor is Callie Wright. This episode was additionally produced by Brett Putman and Vjeran Pavic. Our supervising producer is Liam James.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Josh Miller, co-founder and CEO of The Browser Company, a relatively new software maker that develops the Arc browser. The company also has a mobile app called Arc Search that does AI summaries of webpages, which puts it right in the middle of a contentious debate in the tech industry around paying web creators for their work.  We’ve been talking about these topics pretty much nonstop for last year here on Decoder. So I was really excited to have Josh on the show to explore why he built Arc, what he hopes it will accomplish, and what might happen to browsers, search engines, and the web itself as these trends evolve.  Links:  Researcher reveals ‘catastrophic’ security flaw in the Arc browser | The Verge The Arc browser is the Chrome replacement I’ve been waiting for | The Verge Arc’s mobile browser is here — and it’s not really a web browser at all | The Verge Arc is getting better bookmarks and search results, all thanks to AI | The Verge Arc Search combines browser, search engine, and AI into something new | The Verge Judge rules that Google ‘is a monopolist’ in US antitrust case | The Verge Google paid Apple $20 billion in 2022 to be Safari’s default search engine | The Verge One startup's quest to take on Chrome and reinvent the web browser | Protocol Scenes from a dying web | Platformer Perplexity’s grand theft AI | The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24011410 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Google’s in the middle of its antitrust case in just as many months, after it lost a landmark trial in August over anticompetitive search practices. This time around, the DOJ is claiming Google has another illegal monopoly in the online advertising market.  Verge senior policy reporter Lauren Feiner has been on the ground at the courthouse to hear testimony from news publishers, advertising experts, and Google executives to make sense of it — and, ultimately, to see whether a federal judge hands the company another antitrust defeat.  Links:  Google and DOJ return for round two of their antitrust fight | The Verge Judge rules that Google ‘is a monopolist’ in US antitrust case | The Verge In US v. Google, YouTube’s CEO defends the Google way The Verge Google and the DOJ’s ad tech fight is all about control | The Verge How Google altered a deal with publishers who couldn’t say no | The Verge Google dominates online ads, says antitrust trial witness, but publishers are feeling ‘stuck’ | The Verge US considers a rare antitrust move: breaking up Google | Bloomberg This deal helped turn Google into an ad powerhouse. Is that a problem? | NYT Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Roy Jakobs. He’s the CEO of Royal Philips, which makes medical devices ranging from MRI machines to ventilators. Philips has a long history —- the company began in the late 19th century as a lightbulb manufacturer, and over the past century it’s grown and shrunk in various ways. Basically, while every other company has been trying to get bigger, Philips has been paring itself down to a tight focus on healthcare, and Roy and I talked about why that market is worth the focus.  Roy and I also talked about an ongoing controversy at Philips that he had a part in: In 2021, after years of consumer complaints, Philips was made to recall millions of its breathing machines. Those devices were eventually tied to more than 500 deaths. That’s a pretty big decision, with massive life-or-death consequences, and you’ll hear us talk about it in detail. Links:  Problems reported with recalled Philips ventilators, BiPAP & CPAP machines | FDA FDA says 561 deaths tied to recalled Philips sleep apnea machines | CBS News Philips kept complaints about dangerous breathing machines secret | ProPublica Top Philips executive approved sale of defective breathing machines | ProPublica Philips reaches final pact with DOJ, FDA on ventilator recall | WSJ Philips suspends U.S. sales of breathing machines after recall | NYT CPAP maker reaches $479 million settlement on breathing device defects | NYT Philips exits shrinking home entertainment business | Reuters Original TSMC investor Philips sells off final shares | PC World Philips unveils new AI-powered cardiovascular ultrasound | Mass Device Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24006874 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve been covering the rise of AI image editing very closely here on Decoder and at The Verge for several years now — the ability to create photorealistic images with nothing more than a chatbot prompt could completely reset our cultural relationship to photography. But one argument keeps cropping up in response. You’ve heard it a million times, and it’s when people say “it’s just like Photoshop,” with “Photoshop” standing in for the concept of image editing generally.  So today, we’re trying to understand exactly what it means, and why our new world of AI image tools is different — and yes, in some cases the same. Verge reporter Jess Weatherbed recently dove into this for us, and I asked her to join me in going through the debate and the arguments one by one to help figure it out. Links:  You’re here because you said AI image editing was just like Photoshop | The Verge No one’s ready for this | The Verge The AI photo editing era is here, and it’s every person for themselves | The Verge Google’s AI ‘Reimagine’ tool helped us add disasters and corpses to photos | The Verge X’s new AI image generator will make Taylor Swift in lingerie and Kamala Harris with a gun | The Verge Grok will make gory images — just tell it you're a cop. | The Verge Leica launches first camera with Content Credentials | Content Authenticity Initiative You can use AI to get rid of Samsung’s AI watermark | The Verge Spurred by teen girls, states move to nan deepfake nudes | NYT Florida teens arrested for creating ‘deepfake’ AI nude images of classmates | The Verge Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Mike Krieger, the new chief product officer at Anthropic, one of the hottest AI companies in the industry. Anthropic’s main product right now is Claude, the name of both its industry-leading AI model and a chatbot that competes with ChatGPT.  Mike has a fascinating resume: he was the cofounder of Instagram, and then started AI-powered newsreader Artifact. I was a fan of Artifact, so I wanted to know more about the decision to shut it down as well as the decision to sell it to Yahoo. And then I wanted to know why Mike decided to join Anthropic and work in AI — an industry with a lot of investment, but very few consumer products to justify it. What’s this all for?  Links:  Instagram co-founder Mike Krieger is Anthropic’s new chief product officer | The Verge Instagram’s co-founders are shutting down their Artifact news app | The Verge Yahoo resurrects Artifact inside a new AI-powered News app | The Verge Authors sue Anthropic for training AI using pirated books | The Verge The text file that runs the internet | The Verge Anthropic’s crawler is ignoring websites’ anti-AI scraping policies | The Verge Golden Gate Claude | Anthropic Inside the white-hot center of AI doomerism | New York Times Dario Amodei, CEO of Anthropic, on the paradoxes of AI safety | Hard Fork No one’s ready for this | The Verge OpenAI announces SearchGPT, its AI-powered search engine | The Verge Amazon-backed Anthropic rolls out Claude AI for big business | CNBC Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24001603 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The web has a problem: huge chunks of it keep going offline. The web isn’t static, parts of it sometimes just… vanish. But it’s not all grim. The Internet Archive has a massive mission to identify and back up our online world into a vast digital library. In 2001, it launched the Wayback Machine, an interface that lets anyone call up snapshots of sites and look at how they used to be and what they used to say at a given moment in time. Mark Graham, director of the Wayback Machine, joins Decoder this week to explain both why and how the organization tries to keep the web from disappearing. Links:  When Online Content Disappears | Pew Research Game Informer is shutting down | The Verge When Media Outlets Shutter, Why Are the Websites Wiped, Too? Slate MTV News lives on in the Internet Archive | The Verge The video game industry is mourning the loss of Game Informer | The Verge Guest host Hank Green makes Nilay Patel explain why websites have a future | Decoder How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral | Decoder The Internet Archive is defending its digital library in court today | The Verge The Internet Archive has lost its first fight to scan and lend ebooks | The Verge The Internet Archive just lost its appeal over ebook lending | The Verge Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Decoder is off this week for a short end-of-summer break. We’ll be back with both our interview and explainer episodes after the Labor Day holiday. In the meantime we thought we’d re-share an explainer that’s taken on a whole new relevance in the last couple weeks, about deepfakes and misinformation. In February, I talked with Verge policy editor Adi Robertson how the generative AI boom might start fueling a wave of election-related misinformation, especially deepfakes and manipulated media. It’s not been quite an apocalyptic AI free-for-all out there. But the election itself took some really unexpected turns in these last couple of months. Now we’re heading into the big, noisy home stretch, and use of AI is starting to get really weird — and much more troublesome.  Links:  The AI-generated hell of the 2024 election | The Verge AI deepfakes are cheap, easy, and coming for the 2024 election | Decoder Elon Musk posts deepfake of Kamala Harris that violates X policy | The Verge Donald Trump posts a fake AI-generated Taylor Swift endorsement | The Verge X’s Grok now points to government site after misinformation warnings | The Verge Political ads could require AI-generated content disclosures soon | The Verge The Copyright Office calls for a new federal law regulating deepfakes | The Verge How AI companies are reckoning with elections | The Verge The lame AI meme election | Axios Deepfakes' parody loophole | Axios Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Decoder is off this week for a short end-of-summer break. We’ll be back with both our interview and explainer episodes after the Labor Day holiday, and I’m very excited for what we have coming up on the schedule.  But while we’re out, we’d like to highlight a great episode from the Land of the Giants podcast, which is over at Vulture this season, for a deep dive into Disney. Can it be a tech company? It’s the question that defines the struggles of its streaming service Disney Plus — and it also tells us where it needs to go in the future to compete with Amazon, Apple, and Netflix.  Links:  Disney Is a Tech Company? | Vulture Why Disney plussed itself | Vulture Disney’s CEO drama explained, with Julia Alexander | Decoder The clock is ticking on Disney’s streaming strategy | Decoder The Disney Plus, Hulu, and Max streaming bundle is now available | The Verge Disney reportedly wants to bring always-on channels to Disney Plus | The Verge How baseball's tech team built the future of television | The Verge The year Netflix ended the streaming wars | The Ringer   Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Onion is a comedy institution — and like everything else in media, it went on a pure nightmare hell ride in the 2010s. We could do an entire episode on the G/O Media calamity, but the short version is: A bunch of friends just managed to buy The Onion, and they're busy relaunching the website, going back to print, and, clearly, having a blast doing it. CEO Ben Collins and chief product officer Danielle Strle joined me to explain how that even works in 2024. Links:  The Onion sold by G/O Media | The New York Times Sam Reich on revamping the game show - and Dropout’s success | NPR Platformer’s Casey Newton on surviving the great media collapse | Decoder Craig Silverman: Digital advertising’s structure has been weaponized | Digiday US Warns a Gaza Ceasefire Would Only Benefit Humanity | The Onion The Truth is Paywalled but the Lies are Free | Current Affairs A newsroom expands and The Onion is out again on paper | Washington Post Report: Nuclear War Sounds Fucking Amazing Right Now | The Onion Google defends AI search results after they told us to put glue on pizza | The Verge Jury awards nearly $1B to Sandy Hook families in Alex Jones defamation case | CNN ‘No Way to Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens | The Onion Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23989633 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I’m talking with Thomas Dohmke, the CEO of GitHub. GitHub is the platform for managing code – but since 2018, it’s also been owned by Microsoft. We talk a lot about how independent GitHub really is inside of Microsoft — especially now that Microsoft is all-in on AI, and Gitbhub Copilot is one of the biggest AI product success stories that exists right now. But his perspective on AI is pretty refreshing: It’s clear there’s still a long way to go. Links:  Original GitHub landing page | Wayback Machine Introducing Entitlements | GitHub Blog ashtom (Thomas Dohmke) | GitHub The developers suing over GitHub Copilot got dealt a major blow in court | The Verge GitHub Copilot can now help start a project with AI | The Verge GitHub users can mess around with different AI models | The Verge GitHub’s AI-powered Copilot will help you write code for $10 a month | The Verge Google DeepMind co-founder joins Microsoft as CEO of its new AI division | The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23986019 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There’s a major internet speech regulation currently making its way through Congress, and it has a really good chance of becoming law. It’s called KOSPA: the Kids Online Safety and Privacy Act, which passed in the Senate with overwhelming bipartisan support late last month. At a high level, KOSPA could radically change how tech platforms handle speech in an effort to try and make the internet safer for minors.  It’s a controversial bill, with a lot going on. To break it all down, I invited on Verge senior policy reporter Lauren Feiner, who’s been covering these bills for months now, to explain what’s happening, what these bills actually do, and what the path forward for this legislation looks like. Links:  Senate passes the Kids Online Safety Act | The Verge The teens lobbying against the Kids Online Safety Act | The Verge How the Kids Online Safety Act was dragged into a political war | NYT House Republicans won’t bring up KOSA in its current form | Punchbowl News Why a landmark kids online safety bill is still deeply divisive | NBC News Why Sen. Schatz thinks child safety bills can trump the First Amendment | Decoder Child safety bills are reshaping the internet for everyone | The Verge Online age verification is coming, and privacy is on the chopping block | The Verge Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Replika founder and CEO Eugenia Kuyda, and I will just tell you right away, we get all the way to people marrying their AI companions, so get ready. It’s a ride. Replika’s basic pitch is pretty simple: what if you had an AI friend? The company offers avatars you can curate to your liking that pretend to be human, so they can be your friend, your therapist, or even your date. That’s a lot for a private company running an iPhone app, and Eugenia and I talked a lot about the consequences of this idea and what it means for the future of human relationships.  Links:  The AI boyfriend business is booming | Axios Speak, Memory | The Verge Your new AI Friend is almost ready to meet you | Verge What happens when sexting chatbots dump their human lovers | Bloomberg AI chatbot company Replika restores erotic roleplay for some users — Reuters Replika’s New AI App Is Like Tinder but With Sexy Chatbots — Gizmodo Replika’s new AI therapy app tries to bring you to a zen island — The Verge Replika CEO: AI chatbots aren’t just for lonely men | Fortune Gaze Into the Dystopian Hell of Bots Dating Bots | Slate Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23980789 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Jonathan Kanter, the assistant attorney general for antitrust at the United States Department of Justice. This is Jonathan’s second time on the show, and it’s a bit of an emergency podcast situation. On Monday, a federal court issued a monumental decision in the DOJ’s case against Google, holding that Google Search and the text ads in search are monopolies.  The court hasn’t decided on the penalties for all this yet — that process is scheduled to start next month. But it’s the biggest antitrust win against a tech company since the Microsoft case from two decades ago. I wanted to know what Jonathan thought of the ruling, what it means for the law, and most importantly, what remedies he’s going to seek to try and restore competition in search.  Links:  Judge rules that Google ‘is a monopolist’ in US antitrust case | The Verge All the spiciest parts of the Google antitrust ruling | The Verge Now that Google is a monopolist, what’s next? | The Verge DOJ’s Kanter says the antitrust fight against Big Tech is just beginning | Decoder The DOJ Antitrust Division isn’t afraid to go to court | The Verge The US government is gearing up for an AI antitrust fight | The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23979725 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Glenn Fogel, the CEO of Booking Holdings, which owns a large portfolio of familiar travel brands: OpenTable, Kayak, and Priceline, as well as its largest subsidiary, Booking.com. This episode is pure Decoder bait all the way through — from Booking’s structure, to competition with hotels and airlines increasingly going direct to consumer, even to how European regulation affects competition with Google. Oh, and of course, how Booking is incorporating AI; Glenn has some fascinating thoughts there. Glenn really got into it with me — there’s a lot going on in this space, and it’s interesting because there are so many players and so much competition across so many of the layers, even among Booking’s own subsidiaries. I think we probably could have gone twice as long.  Links:  The oral history of travel’s greatest acquisition | Skift Long-term travel looks like a strong growth industry, says Booking’s Glenn Fogel | CNBC Ryanair wins screen-scraping case against Booking.com | Airways Aggregation Theory | Stratechery A Call for Embracing AI—But With a ‘Human Touch’ | Time Booking.com launches new AI Trip Planner | Booking Priceline releases new AI platform and ‘Penny’ chatbot | Skift Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23976178 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Amanda Rose Smith. Our supervising producer is Liam James. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Every time we talk about AI, we get one big piece of feedback that I really want to dive into: how the lightning-fast explosion of AI tools affects the climate. AI takes a lot of energy, and there’s a huge unanswered question as to whether using all that juice for AI is actually worth it, both practically and morally.  It’s messy and complicated and there are a bunch of apparent contradictions along the way — so it’s perfect for Decoder. Verge senior science reporter Justine Calma joins me to see if we can untangle this knot. Links:  This startup wants to capture carbon and help data centers cool down | The Verge Google’s carbon footprint balloons in its Gemini AI era | The Verge Taking a closer look at AI’s supposed energy apocalypse | Ars Technica AI is exhausting the power grid. Tech firms are seeking a miracle | WaPo AI Is already wreaking havoc on global power systems | Bloomberg What do Google’s AI answers cost the environment? | Scientific American AI is an energy hog | MIT Tech Review Microsoft’s AI obsession is jeopardizing its climate ambitions | The Verge The answer to AI’s energy needs could be blowing in the wind | The Verge AI already uses as much energy as a small country | Vox Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Callie Wright and Amanda Rose Smith. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Hanneke Faber, the CEO of Logitech. Hanneke’s still pretty fresh to the role: She joined the company last October, after former CEO Bracken Darrell left following the pandemic boom and subsequent economic slowdown that halted Logitech’s growth. Hanneke, who comes from Unilever and Procter & Gamble, is new to the world of consumer electronics.  So we talked about the structural changes she’s already making at Logitech, and the changes she intends to make in the future. It sounds like some Logitech products, like its smart home doorbells and cameras, are not long for this world. You’ll also hear Hanneke talk about a concept called the “forever mouse” — a mouse you buy once and upgrade over time with new software features — features that of course might carry a subscription fee. Subscription mice! It’s a lot. Links:  How Logitech bet big on work from home | Decoder Logitech CEO Bracken Darrell is leaving for another job | The Verge Webcams have become impossible to find, and prices are skyrocketing | The Verge Logitech appoints Hanneke Faber as new CEO | Reuters Logitech’s new low-profile keyboard fits Cherry MX keycaps | The Verge Logitech’s Meta Quest stylus helps artists work in 3D | The Verge Logitech targets faster growth via education, health and AI | Reuters Logitech wants you to press its new AI button | The Verge Logitech’s best gaming mouse just got better | The Verge Logitech’s articulating arm webcam launches on Indiegogo | The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23970888 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Supreme Court has just taken on the entire idea of the US administrative state — and the Court is winning. Earlier this month, a conservative majority overturned a longstanding legal principle called Chevron deference. The implications are enormous for every possible kind of regulation — and net neutrality looks poised to be the first victim. Verge editor Sarah Jeong joins me to explain why. Links:  Supreme Court overrules Chevron, kneecapping federal regulators | The Verge What SCOTUS just did to broadband, the right to repair, the environment, and more | The Verge FCC votes to restore net neutrality | The Verge Reinstatement of net neutrality rules temporarily halted by appeals court | The Verge Clarence Thomas' 38 Vacations: The Other Billionaires Who Have Treated the Supreme Court Justice to Luxury Travel | ProPublica The Supreme Court's coming war with Joe Biden | Vox Transcript:  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Rivian founder and CEO RJ Scaringe. RJ was on the show last September when we chatted at the Code Conference, but the past 10 months have seen a whirlwind of change throughout the car industry and at Rivian in particular. This year alone, the company unveiled five new models in its lineup and also just announced a $5 billion joint venture with Volkswagen. We got into all that and more.  If you’re a Decoder listener, you’ve heard me talk to a lot of car CEOs on the show, but it’s rare to talk to a car company founder, and RJ was game to talk about basically anything — even extremely minor feature requests I pulled from the forums. It’s a fun one. Links: Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe isn't scared of the Cybertruck | Decoder VW will invest up to $5 billion in Rivian as part of new EV joint venture | The Verge Rivian blazed a trail with its adventure EVs — can it stay on top? | The Verge Rivian R2 revealed: a $45,000 electric off-roader for the masses | The Verge Rivian surprises with R3 and R3X electric SUVs | The Verge Rivian puts its Georgia factory plans on pause | The Verge Rivian’s R1 vehicles are getting a gut overhaul | The Verge Rivian R1S review: king of the mountain | The Verge Rivian’s long, narrow road to profit | WSJ Tesla’s Share of U.S. Electric Car Market Falls Below 50% | NYT Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23965790 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week I’m talking to Matthew Ball, who was last on the show in 2022 to talk about his book “The Metaverse: How it Will Revolutionize Everything.” It’s 2024 and it’s safe to say that has not happened yet. But Matt’s still on the case — in fact he just released an almost complete update of the book, now with the much more sober title, “Building the Spatial Internet.” Matt and I talked a lot about where the previous metaverse hype cycle landed us, and what there is to learn from these boom and bust waves. We talked about the Apple Vision Pro quite a bit; if you read or watched my review when it came out, you’ll know I think the Vision Pro is almost an end point for one set of technologies. I wanted to know if Matt felt the same and what needs to happen to make all of this more mainstream and accessible. Links:  Fully revised and updated edition to the “The Metaverse” | W.W. Norton Apple Vision Pro review: magic, until it’s not | The Verge Apple’s Vision Pro: five months later | Vergecast Is the metaverse going to suck? A conversation with Matthew Ball | Decoder Interviewing Meta CTO Andrew Bosworth on the Metaverse, VR/AR, AI | Matthew Ball Interviewing Epic CEO Tim Sweeney and author Neal Stephenson | Matthew Ball An Interview with Matthew Ball about Vision Pro and the state of gaming | Stratechery Tim Sweeney explains how the metaverse might actually work | The Verge Fortnite is winning the metaverse | The Verge Is the Metaverse Just Marketing? | NYT Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Arati Prabhakar, the director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy. That’s a cabinet-level position, where she works as the chief science and tech advisor to President Biden. Arati and her team of about 140 people at the OSTP are responsible for advising the president on not only big developments in science but also about major innovations in tech, much of which come from the private sector.  Her job involves guiding regulatory efforts, government investment, and setting priorities around big-picture projects like Biden’s cancer moonshot and combating climate change. More recently, Arati has been spending a lot of time talking about the future of AI and semiconductors, so I had the opportunity to dig into both of those topics with her as the generative AI boom continues and the results of the CHIPS Act become more visible.  One note before we start: I sat down with Arati last month, just a couple of days before the first presidential debate and its aftermath, which swallowed the entire news cycle. So you’re going to hear us talk a lot about President Biden’s agenda and the White House’s policy record on AI, among other topics. But you’re not going to hear anything about the president, his age, or the presidential campaign. Links:  Biden’s top science adviser resigns after acknowledging demeaning behavior | NYT Teen girls confront an epidemic of deepfake nudes in schools | NYT Senate committee passes three bills to safeguard elections from AI | The Verge The RIAA versus AI, explained | The Verge Lawyers say OpenAI could be in real trouble with Scarlett Johansson | The Verge Barack Obama on AI, free speech, and the future of the internet | Decoder Meet the Woman Who Showed President Biden ChatGPT | WIRED Biden releases AI executive order | The Verge Biden’s science adviser explains the new hard line on China | WashPo Where the CHIPS Act money has gone | The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23961278 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I’m talking to Nicholas Thompson, the CEO of The Atlantic. I was really excited to talk to Nick. Like so many media CEOs, including Vox Media’s, he just signed a deal allowing OpenAI to use The Atlantic’s vast archives as training data, but he also has a rich background in tech. Before he was the CEO of The Atlantic, Nick was the editor-in-chief of Wired, where he set his sights on AI reporting well before anyone else. I was also really interested in asking Nick about the general sense that the AI companies are getting vastly more than they’re giving with these sorts of deals — yes, they’re paying some money, but I’ve heard from so many of you that the money might now be the point — that there’s something else going on here – that maybe allowing creativity to get commodified this way will come with a price tag so big money can never pay it back. If there is anyone who could get into it with me on that question, it’s Nick. Links:  Vox Media and The Atlantic sign content deals with OpenAI | The Verge Journalists “deeply troubled” by OpenAI’s content deals with Vox, The Atlantic | Ars Technica What the RIAA lawsuits mean for AI and copyright | The Verge Perplexity plagiarized our story about how Perplexity Is a bullshit machine | Wired How to stop Perplexity and save the web from bad AI | Platformer The text file that runs the internet | The Verge OpenAI, WSJ owner News Corp strike content deal valued at over $250 Million | WSJ The media bosses fighting back against AI — and the ones cutting deals — WashPo The New York Times spent $1 million so far in its OpenAI lawsuit | The Verge AI companies have all kinds of arguments against paying for copyrighted content | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Canva got its start more than a decade ago as a different form of disruptive tech for creatives. It’s a web-based platform that makes design tools cheaper and accessible for individuals, schools, and businesses from tiny to enterprise. Melanie has big goals to grow the company — and try to do good in the process. Links:  Canva tackled digital design — and now the office suite is next | The Verge Canva Inks Deals With Warner Music Group, Merlin | Variety Canva founders join Bill Gates’ Giving Pledge to give away most of their fortune | Sydney Morning Herald Canva partnership tackling extreme poverty in Malawi one year on | GiveDirectly Canva’s Two-Step Plan: Celebrating 10 years of impact | Canva Adobe’s new terms of service aren’t the problem — it’s the trust | The Verge ‘The general perception is: Adobe is an evil company that will do whatever it takes to F its users.’ | The Verge Why Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen thinks AI is the future | The Verge Canva corporate 'Hamilton' cringe rap presentation goes viral | YouTube Transcript:  https://www.theverge.com/e/23955121 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s almost the Fourth of July, and that means it’s time for our annual grilling episode. This year, I’m talking with Big Green Egg CEO Dan Gertsacov, who has big plans for using very modern fan-based marketing techniques to expand the market for the company’s old-fashioned, fire-burning, aspirational product.  Links:  Big Green Egg Appoints a New CEO | CookOut News Big Green Egg 50th Anniversary 1974-2024 | Big Green Egg Yep, Big Green Egg Just Made a Beer Keg | Gear Patrol AI could kill creative jobs that ‘shouldn’t have been there in the first place,’ OpenAI CTO says | Fortune Campfires, explained | Vox An ‘Epidemic’ of Loneliness Threatens Health of Americans | Scientific American  RIP: Here are 70 things millennials have killed | Mashable “Genius of the AND” | Jim Collins Keurig's attempt to 'DRM' its coffee cups totally backfired | The Verge A Look at the Danny Meyer Documentary The Restaurateur | Eater Transcript:  https://www.theverge.com/e/23952121 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we’re talking about politics and lobbying in America. It’s hard to imagine a time when the influence of big corporations and billionaires didn’t touch every part of American politics, but the kind of lobbying we have now didn’t really exist before the 1970s. Now, our political debates about everything from energy, finance, and healthcare are deeply intertwined with corporations and their money — and new big players in tech now spend tons of political money of their own. To understand the structure of today’s political lobbying and how we go here, I brought Pulitzer Prize winner Brody Mullins on the show. Brody has a new book he co-wrote with his brother Luke Mullins called The Wolves of K Street: The Secret History of How Big Money Took Over Big Government, which came out last month. It’s a definitive history of modern lobbying in America, told through the lens of some of the industry’s most unsavory characters and the influence they’ve exerted on DC politics across decades.  Links: If Donald Trump Wins, Paul Manafort Will Be Waiting in the Wings | NYT Meta had its biggest lobbying quarter ever | The Verge Apple quietly bankrolled a lobbying group for app developers | The Verge The Many Reinventions of a Legendary Washington Influence Peddler | Politico  The Wolves of K Street review: how lobbying swallowed Washington | The Guardian Big Tech Has a New Favorite Lobbyist: You | WSJ SOPA bill shelved after global protests from Google, Wikipedia and others | WashPo The Russia Inquiry Ended a Democratic Lobbyist’s Career. He Wants It Back. | NYT The Swamp Builders | WashPo The Rise and Fall of a K Street Renegade | WSJ Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Greg Peters, the co-CEO of Netflix. I caught up with Greg while he was at the Cannes Lions festival in France, which is basically the world’s biggest gathering of advertisers and marketers. It’s an increasingly important place for Greg to be, as Netflix’s new ad tier has nearly doubled in six months to more than 40 million subscribers and feels increasingly pivotal to the future of the company.  On top of that, Netflix is updating its famous culture memo, and I wanted to chat with Greg about the changes he’s making to that document, and how he’s thinking about maintaining that culture as Netflix grows into things like advertising and gaming. Links:  Netflix Culture Memo | Netflix Netflix Culture Memo (2009) | Netflix Streaming is cable now | The Verge Netflix’s ad tier hits 40 million users | The Verge Netflix is different now — and there’s no going back | The Verge  Netflix just fired the organizer of the trans employee walkout | The Verge Netflix doesn’t want to hear it anymore | The Verge It’s hard to believe Samsung’s new, matte The Frame is actually a TV | The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23946561 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve got a special episode of the show today – I was traveling last week, so Verge deputy editor Alex Heath and our new senior AI reporter Kylie Robison are filling in for me, with a very different kind of episode about AI. We talk a lot about AI in a broad sense on Decoder — it comes up in basically every single interview I do these days. But we don’t spend a ton of time on the day-to-day happenings of the AI industry itself. So we thought it would be a good idea to take a beat and have Alex and Kylie actually break down the modern AI boom as it exists today: The companies you need to know, the most important news of the last few months, and what it’s actually like to be fully immersed in this industry every single day. Links:  Google defends AI search results after they told us to put glue on pizza | The Verge Apple is putting ChatGPT in Siri for free later this year | The Verge AI will make money sooner than you’d think, says Cohere CEO Aidan Gomez | Decoder Humane is looking for a buyer after the AI Pin’s underwhelming debut | The Verge 2024 is a year of reckoning for AI | The Verge OpenAI researcher who resigned over safety concerns joins Anthropic | The Verge Hugging Face is sharing $10M worth of compute to beat big AI companies | The Verge The AI drama is heating up | Command Line Google and OpenAI are racing to rewire the internet | Command Line Elon Musk’s xAI raises $6 billion to fund its race against ChatGPT | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tubi is a free and very rapidly growing streaming TV platform — according to Nielsen, it had an average of a million viewers watching every minute in May 2024, beating out Disney Plus, Max, Peacock, and basically everything else, save Netflix and YouTube. All those streaming service price hikes are driving people to free options, and Tubi is right there to catch them. CEO Anjali Sud joins Decoder to explain why she thinks Tubi's model "could be" profitable, and how Tubi competes not only against the premium streamers, but also against the big competitors for viewers' time: TikTok and Youtube. Links:  As streaming becomes more expensive, Tubi cashes in on the value of free | Los Angeles Times Tubi’s new redesign wants to push you down the rabbit hole | The Verge Tubi Rabbit AI: ChatGPT can give you better movie recommendations | The Verge The future of streaming is free ad-supported TV and movies | The Verge It’s true: people like leaving their TVs on in the background | The Verge Stubios is the new name of Tubi’s fan-fueled studio program | The Verge Comcast has a Netflix, Peacock, and Apple TV Plus bundle coming | The Verge A Disney, Hulu, and Max streaming bundle is on the way | The Verge Transcript:  https://www.theverge.com/e/23942621 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Private equity is a simple concept — a PE firm uses some combination of money and debt to buy a company, then makes a profit — but the reality of what happens to the companies that get acquired is anything but. It's everywhere, and it's not going away. In this summer remix, we're talking with Brendan Ballou, author of Plunder: Private Equity’s Plan to Pillage America, about how we got here and what happens next.  Links:  Private equity bought out your doctor and bankrupted Toys“R”Us — here’s why that matters | The Verge Private equity and mismanagement: Here's what really killed Red Lobster | Fast Company Sony and Apollo send letter expressing interest in $26 billion Paramount buyout | NBC News Plunder: Private Equity’s Plan to Pillage America | Brendan Ballou Barbarians at the Gate: The Fall of RJR Nabisco | Bryan Borrough & John Helyar Barnes & Noble is going back to its indie roots to compete with Amazon | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Cohere is one of the buzziest AI startups around right now. It's not making consumer products; it's focused on the enterprise market and making AI products for big companies. And there's a huge tension there: up until recently, computers have been deterministic. If you give computers a certain input, you usually know exactly what output you’re going to get. There’s a logic to it. But if we all start talking to computers with human language and getting human language back, well, human language is messy. And that makes the entire process of knowing what to put in and what exactly we’re going to get out of our computers different than it ever has been before. Links:  Attention is all you need On the Dangers of Stochastic Parrots Introducing the AI Mirror Test, which very smart people keep failing | The Verge AI isn’t close to becoming sentient | The Conversation These are Microsoft’s Bing AI secret rules and why it says it’s named Sydney | The Verge ‘Godfather of AI’ quits Google with regrets and fears about his life’s work | The Verge Microsoft CTO Kevin Scott on Bing’s quest to beat Google | The Verge Top AI researchers and CEOs warn against ‘risk of extinction’ | The Verge Google Zero is here — now what? | The Verge Cara grew from 40k to 650k in a week because artists are fed up with Meta’s AI policies | TechCrunch How AI copyright lawsuits could make the whole industry go extinct | The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23937899 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The art of video game design is flourishing, but it feels like a really grim time to be in the business of making and distributing games. Huge global publishers and tiny indie studios alike are facing huge financial pressures, and it doesn’t seem to be letting up anytime soon. So where did this enormous pressure come from, if consumer interest is high and sales are great? Verge video game reporter Ash Parrish joins Decoder to explain. Links:  Global games market expected to grow to $189bn in 2024 | GamesIndustry.biz Why the video game industry is seeing so many layoffs | Polygon The tech industry’s layoffs and hiring freezes: all of the news | The Verge Fortnite made more than $9 billion in revenue in its first two years | The Verge Insomniac’s Spider-Man 2 Swings Past 10 Million Sold | IGN The future of Netflix games could look like reality TV | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Zoom CEO Eric Yuan — and let me tell you, this conversation is nothing like what I expected. It turns out Eric wants Zoom to be much, much more than just a videoconferencing platform. Zoom wants to take on Microsoft and Google and now has a big investment in AI – and Eric’s visions for what that AI will do are pretty wild. See, Eric really wants you to stop having to attend Zoom meetings yourself. You’ll hear him describe how he thinks one of the big benefits of AI at work will be letting us all create something he calls a “digital twin," essentially a deepfake of yourself that can go attend meetings on your behalf and even make decisions for you. I’ll just warn you: I tried to ask a bunch of the usual Decoder questions during this conversation, but once we got to digital twins going to Zoom meetings for people, well, I had a lot of followup questions.  Links:  Zoom gets its first major overhaul in 10 years, powered by generative AI | ZDNet An interview with Zoom CEO Eric Yuan | Stratechery / Ben Thompson Zoom is cutting about 150 jobs, or close to 2% of its workforce | CNBC Zoom meetings are about to get weirder thanks to the Vision Pro | The Verge Zoom Docs launches in 2024 with built-in AI collaboration features | The Verge Zoom rewrites its policies to make clear that your videos aren’t used to train AI tools | The Verge Zoom says its new AI tools aren’t stealing ownership of your content | The Verge Zoom adds “post-quantum” end-to-end encryption | Zoom Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23932774 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For nearly 20 years now, the web has been Google’s platform; we’ve all just lived on it. I think of Decoder as a show for people trying to build things, and a lot of people have built their things on that platform. For a lot of small businesses and content creators, that’s suddenly not stable anymore. The number one question I have for anyone building things on someone else’s platform is: What are you going to do when that platform changes the rules? Links:  How Google is killing independent sites like ours | HouseFresh HouseFresh has virtually disappeared from Google Search results. Now what? | HouseFresh Google Is Killing Retro Dodo & Other Independent Sites | Retro Dodo Google CEO Sundar Pichai on AI-powered search and the future of the web | The Verge Will A.I. Break the Internet? Or Save It? | The New York Times Google confirms the leaked Search documents are real |The Verge An Anonymous Source Shared Thousands of Leaked Google Search API Documents with Me; Everyone in SEO Should See Them | SparkToro Mountain Weekly News Telly Visions E-ride Hero That Fit Friend Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Joseph Cox, one of the best cybersecurity reporters around and a co-founder of the new media site 404 Media. Joseph has a new book coming out in June called Dark Wire: The Incredible True Story of the Largest Sting Operation Ever, and I can’t recommend it enough. It’s basically a caper, but with the FBI running a phone network. For real.  Joseph walks us through the fascinating world of underground criminal phone networks, and how secure messaging, a tech product beloved by drug traffickers, evolved from the days of BlackBerry Messenger to Signal. Along the way, the FBI got involved with its very own startup, ANOM, as part of one of the most effective trojan horse operations in the history of cybersecurity. Joseph’s book is a great read, but it also touches on a lot of things we talk about a lot here on Decoder. So this conversation was a fun one.  Links:  Dark Wire by Joseph Cox | Hachette Book Group How Vice became ‘a fucking clown show’ | The Verge Cyber Official Speaks Out, Reveals Mobile Network Attacks in US | 404 Media Revealed: The Country that Secretly Wiretapped the World for the FBI | 404 Media How Secure Phones for Criminals Are Sold on Instagram | Motherboard A Peek Inside the Phone Company Secretly Used in an FBI Honeypot | Motherboard The FBI secretly launched an encrypted messaging system for criminals | The Verge Canadian police have had master key to BlackBerry's encryption since 2010 | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Google CEO Sundar Pichai, who joined the show the day after the big Google I/O developer conference. Google’s focus during the conference was on how it’s building AI into virtually all of its products. If you’re a Decoder listener, you’ve heard me talk about this idea a lot over the past year: I call it “Google Zero,” and I’ve been asking a lot of web and media CEOs what would happen to their businesses if their Google traffic were to go to zero. In a world where AI powers search with overviews and summaries, that’s a real possibility. What then happens to the web?  I’ve talked to Sundar quite a bit over the past few years, and this was the most fired up I’ve ever seen him. I think you can really tell that there is a deep tension between the vision Google has for the future — where AI magically makes us smarter, more productive, more artistic — and the very real fears and anxieties creators and website owners are feeling right now about how search has changed and how AI might swallow the internet forever, and that he’s wrestling with that tension. Links:  Google and OpenAI are racing to rewire the internet — Command Line Google I/O 2024: everything announced — The Verge Google is redesigning its search engine, and it’s AI all the way down — The Verge Project Astra is the future of AI at Google — The Verge Did SEO experts ruin the internet or did Google? — The Verge YouTube is going to start cracking down on AI clones of musicians — The Verge AI is killing the old web, and the new web struggles to be born — The Verge How Google is killing independent sites like ours — HouseFresh Inside the First 'SEO Heist' of the AI Era — Business Insider Google’s Sundar Pichai talks Search, AI, and dancing with Microsoft — Decoder Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23922415 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Last week, TikTok filed a lawsuit against the US government claiming the divest-or-ban law is unconstitutional — a case it needs to win in order to keep operating under Bytedance’s ownership. There’s a lot of back and forth between the facts and the law here: Some of the legal claims are complex and sit in tension with a long history of prior attempts to regulate speech and the internet, while the simple facts of what TikTok has already promised to do around the world contradict some its arguments. Verge editors Sarah Jeong and Alex Heath join me to explain what it all means. Links:  TikTok and Bytedance v Merrick Garland (PDF) TikTok sues the US government over ban | The Verge Senate passes TikTok ban bill, sending it to President Biden’s desk | The Verge The legal challenges that lie ahead for TikTok — in both the US and China | The Verge Why the TikTok ban won’t solve the US’s online privacy problems. | Decoder  Biden signs TikTok ‘ban’ bill into law, starting the clock for ByteDance to divest it | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen has been at the top of my list of people I’ve wanted to talk to for the show since we first launched — he’s led Adobe for nearly 17 years now, but he doesn’t do too many wide-ranging interviews. I’ve always thought Adobe was an underappreciated company — its tools sit at the center of nearly every major creative workflow you can think of — and with generative AI poised to change the very nature of creative software, it seemed particularly important to talk with Shantanu now. Adobe sits right at the center of the whole web of tensions, especially as the company has evolved its business and business model over time. And now, AI really changes what it means to make and distribute creative work. Not many people are seeing revenue returns on it just yet and there are the fundamental philosophical challenges of adding AI to photo and video tools. What does it mean when a company like Adobe, which makes the tools so many people use to make their art, sees the creative process as a step in a marketing chain, instead of a goal in and of itself? Links:  How Adobe is managing the AI copyright dilemma, with general counsel Dana Rao  Adobe Launches Creative Cloud (2012) What was Photoshop like in 1994?  Photoshop’s Generative Fill tool turns vacation photos into nightmares - The Verge New York Daily News, Chicago Tribune, and others sue OpenAI and Microsoft - The Verge The FAIR Act: A New Right to Protect Artists in the Age of AI | Adobe Blog Adobe’s Firefly generative AI tools are now generally available - The Verge This Wacom AI debacle has certainly taken a turn. - The Verge Transcript:  https://www.theverge.com/e/23917997 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we’re going to talk about the smart home — one of the oldest, most important, and most challenging dreams in the history of the tech industry. The idea of your house responding to you and your family, and generally being as automated and as smart as your phone or your laptop, has inspired generations of technologists. But after decades of promises, it’s all still pretty messy. Because the big problem with the smart home has been blindingly obvious for a very long time: interoperability.  Yet there are some promising developments out there that might make it a little better. To help sort it all out, I invited Verge smart home reviewer Jen Tuohy, who is one of the most influential reporters on the smart home beat today. Jen and I break down how Matter, the open source standard, is trying to fix these issues, but there is still a lot of work to do.  Links:  Matter is now racing ahead, but the platforms are holding it back — The Verge 2023 in the smart home: Matter’s broken promises — The Verge Smart home hubs: what they are and why you need one — The Verge My smart kitchen: the good, the bad, and the future — The Verge How bad business broke the smart home — The Verge The smart home is finally getting out of your phone and into your home — The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Polestar CEO Thomas Ingenlath, whom I first interviewed on the show back in 2021. Those were heady days — especially for upstart EV companies like Polestar, which all seemed poised to capture what felt like infinite demand for electric cars. Now, in 2024, the market looks a lot different, and so does Polestar, which is no longer majority-owned by Volvo. Instead, Volvo is now a more independent sister company, and both Volvo and Polestar fall under Chinese parent company Geely.  You know I love a structure shuffle, so Thomas and I really got into it: what does it mean for Volvo to have stepped back, and how much can Polestar take from Geely’s various platforms while still remaining distinct from the other brands in the portfolio? We also talked about the upcoming Polestar 3 SUV and Polestar 4 crossover, and I asked Thomas what he thinks of the Cybertruck. Links:  Can Polestar design a new kind of car company? — Decoder The Polestar 3 isn’t out yet, and it’s already getting a big price cut — The Verge The Polestar 4 gets an official price ahead of its debut — The Verge Polestar makes the rear window obsolete with its new crossover coupe — The Verge Volvo and Polestar drift a little farther apart — The Verge Polestar gets a nearly $1 billion lifeline — The Verge Car-tech breakup fever is heating up — The Verge Polestar is working on its own smartphone to sync with its EVs — The Verge Polestar’s electric future looks high-performing, and promising — The Verge Electric car maker Polestar to cut around 450 jobs globally — Reuters Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23912151 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, Verge transportation editor Andy Hawkins and I are going to try and figure out Tesla. I said try — I did not say succeed. But we’re going to try. That’s because Tesla has been on a real rollercoaster these past two weeks, in terms of its stock price, its basic financials, and well, its vibes. If you’ve been following the company, you know that that gap between what the business is and how its valued has been getting bigger and bigger for years now – and lately, with Elon Musk saying he’s going all-in on autonomy and announcing a robotaxi event in August, it seems like we’re getting closer to a make or break moment, especially as competition in the broader EV market heats up.  Links: Tesla reaches deals in China on self-driving cars — NYT Elon Musk goes ‘absolutely hard core’ in another round of Tesla layoffs — The Verge Tesla’s Autopilot and Full Self-Driving linked to dozens of deaths — The Verge Elon Musk says Tesla will reveal its robotaxi on August 8th — The Verge A cheaper Tesla is back on the menu — The Verge Tesla’s profits sink as the company struggles with cooling demand — The Verge Tesla lays off ‘more than 10 percent’ of its workforce, loses top executives — The Verge Tesla recalls all 3,878 Cybertrucks over faulty accelerator pedal — The Verge Elon Musk says it’s “time to reorganize” Tesla — The Verge Elon Musk lost Democrats on Tesla when he needed them most — WSJ Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A lot has changed since the last time Ola was on Decoder. Back then, he said Mercedes would have an all-EV lineup by 2030 — a promise a whole lot of car companies, including Mercedes, have now had to soften or walk back. But he doesn't see that as a setback at all, and he and Mercedes are both still committed to phasing out gas in the long run. We also spent some time talking about what's happening both on the outside of cars — Mercedes' classic look and its EV look aren't necessarily quite in the same place — and on the inside of them, as infotainment becomes a huge point of competition and design. Links:  How Mercedes-Benz CEO Ola Källenius is refocusing for an electric future - The Verge Mercedes-Benz opens its first 400kW EV charging station in the US - The Verge Mercedes-Benz is the first German automaker to adopt Tesla’s EV charging connector - The Verge Is the metaverse going to suck? A conversation with Matthew Ball - The Verge The Mercedes G-Wagen, the ultimate off-road status symbol, goes electric - The Verge Mercedes workers file federal charges with NLRB to stop union busting - The Alabama Political Reporter The MBUX Hyperscreen - Mercedes-Benz USA Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23904592 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we’re talking about the brand-new TikTok ban — and how years of Congressional inaction on a federal privacy law helped lead us to this moment of apparent national panic about algorithmic social media. This is a thorny discussion, and to help break it all down, I invited Verge senior policy reporter Lauren Feiner on the show. Lauren has been closely covering efforts to ban TikTok for years now, and she’s also watched Congress fail to pass meaningful privacy regulation for even longer. We’ll go over how we got here, what this means for both TikTok and efforts to pass new privacy legislation, and what might happen next.  Links:  Biden signs TikTok ‘ban’ bill into law — The Verge TikTok ban: all the news on attempts to ban the video platform — The Verge Anyone want to buy TikTok? — Vergecast Congress takes on TikTok, privacy, and AI — Vergecast Tiktok vows to fight 'unconstitutional' US ban — BBC ‘Thunder Run’: Behind lawmakers’ secretive push to pass the TikTok bill — NYT On TikTok, resignation and frustration after potential ban of app — NYT Lawmakers unveil new bipartisan digital privacy bill after years of impasse — The Verge A real privacy law? House lawmakers are optimistic this time — The Verge Congress is trying to stop discriminatory algorithms again — The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Jason Citron, the co-founder and CEO of Discord, the gaming-focused voice and chat app. You might think Discord is just something Slack for gamers, but over time, it has become much more important than that. For a growing mix of mostly young, very online users steeped in gaming culture, fandom, and other niche communities, Discord is fast becoming the hub to their entire online lives. A lot of what we think of as internet culture is happening on Discord. In many ways Discord represents a significant shift away from what we now consider traditional social platforms. As you’ll hear Jason describe it, Discord is a place where you talk and hangout with your friends over shared common interests, whether that’s video games, the AI bot Midjourney, or maybe your favorite anime series. It is a very different kind of interface for the internet, but that comes with serious challenges, especially around child safety and moderation.  Links:  Discord opens up to games and apps embedded in its chat app — The Verge Discord is nuking Nintendo Switch emulator devs and their entire servers — The Verge Inside Discord’s reform movement for banned users — The Verge Discord ends deal talks with Microsoft — WSJ Discord cuts 17% of workers in latest tech layoffs — NYT Discord to start showing ads for gamers to boost revenue — WSJ Discord says it intentionally does not encrypt user messages — CNN How Discord became a social hub for young people — NYT ‘Problematic pockets’: How Discord became a home for extremists — WashPo Discord CEO Jason Citron on AI, Midjourney — Bloomberg Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23898955 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we're talking about Disney, the massive activist investor revolt it just fought off, and what happens next in the world of streaming. Because what happens to Disney really tells us a lot about what's happening in the entire world of entertainment. Earlier this month, Disney survived an attempted board takeover from businessman Nelson Peltz. While investors ultimately sided with Disney and CEO Bob Iger, the boardroom showdown made something very clear: Disney needs to figure out streaming and get its creative direction back on track.  To help me figure all this out, I brought on my friend Julia Alexander, who is VP of Strategy at Parrot Analytics, a Puck News contributor, and most importantly, a former Verge reporter. She's a leading expert on all things Disney, and I always learn something important about the state of the entertainment business when I talk to her.  Links:  The Story of Disney+ — Puck News ​​Disney’s CEO drama explained, with Julia Alexander — Decoder Is streaming just becoming cable again? Julia Alexander thinks so — Decoder Disney Fends Off Activist Investor for Second Time in 2 Years — NYT For Disney, streaming losses and TV’s decline are a one-two punch — NYT Disney’s ABC, ESPN weakness adds pressure to make streaming profitable — WSJ Disney reportedly wants to bring always-on channels to Disney Plus — The Verge The Disney Plus-Hulu merger is way more than a streaming bundle — The Verge Disney’s laying off 7,000 as streaming boom comes to an end — The Verge The last few years really scared Disney — Screen Rant Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

At the absolute most basic, Dropbox is cloud storage for your stuff — but that puts it at the nexus of a huge number of today’s biggest challenges in tech. As the company that helps you organize your stuff in the cloud itself goes all remote, how do we even deal with the concept of “your stuff?” Today I’m talking with Dropbox CEO Drew Houston about those big picture ideas — and why he thinks generative AI really will be transformative for everyone eventually, even if it isn’t yet now. Links:  Dropbox AI and Dash make it easier to find your files from all over the web | The Verge Kids who grew up with search engines could change STEM forever | The Verge No, Dropbox's cafeteria didn't get a Michelin star | VentureBeat It's official: San Francisco's office vacancy rate just set a record | San Francisco Examiner Jeff Bezos: This is the 'smartest thing we ever did' at Amazon | CNBC Dropbox is laying off 500 people and pivoting to AI | The Verge Congress bans staff use of Microsoft's AI Copilot | Axios Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23892647 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we’re talking about Vice, the media company: Where it came from, what it did, and, ultimately, why it collapsed into a much smaller, sadder version of itself.  This is a lousy time for digital media, and it’s hard to make a profit from putting words on the internet right now. So when Verge senior reporter Liz Lopatto went to go report on what happened, she and I both assumed Vice had been done in by the brutal economics of digital advertising on the web. But the Vice story is more than that — in the word of one executive that talked to Liz, it was a “fucking clown show.”  Links: How Vice became 'a fucking clown show' — The Verge Vice is abandoning Vice.com and laying off hundreds — The Verge Vice, decayed digital colossus, files for bankruptcy — NYT Vice Is Basically Dead — New York Magazine Shane Smith and the Final Collapse of Vice News — The Hollywood Reporter At Vice, cutting-edge media and allegations of old-school sexual harassment — NYT HBO cancels ‘Vice News Tonight,’ severing relationship with Vice Media — CNN Shane Smith has a secret multimillion-dollar Vice deal — New York Magazine Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Cloudflare is an infrastructure provider basically protecting more than 20% of the entire web from bad actors. When everything is going well, you don't even have to know it exists. It's one of the only defenses — sometimes the only defense — standing between websites and the people who want to take them down. Protecting free speech on the internet around the world, across war zones and hundreds of different kinds of government, is no easy feat. That puts the company, and CEO Matthew Prince, right at the heart of some of Decoder's biggest challenges and themes.  Links:  A Cloudflare outage broke large swathes of the internet | The Verge Why security company Cloudflare is protecting U.S. election sites for free | Fast Company The Daily Stormer just lost the most important company defending it | The Verge (2017) Cloudflare to revoke 8chan’s service, opening the fringe website up for DDoS attacks | The Verge (2019) Cloudflare blocks Kiwi Farms due to an ‘immediate threat to human life’ | The Verge Why Cloudflare Let an Extremist Stronghold Burn | Wired Cloudflare CEO Matthew Prince interview on Ukraine cybersecurity | Semafor 3 ways the ‘splinternet’ is damaging society | MIT Sloan Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23885440 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, and welcome to Decoder. This is David Pierce, editor-at-large at The Verge and co-host of The Vergecast, subbing in for Nilay, who’s out on vacation. Regular Decoder programming returns next week. In the meantime, we have an exciting episode for you today all about video game emulation, which, as it turns out, is a whole lot more complicated than it seems.  Gaming emulation made headlines recently because one of the most widely used programs for emulating the Nintendo Switch, a platform called Yuzu, was effectively sued out of existence. There’s a whole lot going on here, from the history of game emulation to the copyright precedents of emulators to how the threat of game piracy still looms large in the industry. To break down this topic, I brought Verge Senior Editor and resident emulation expert Sean Hollister on the show. Let’s get into it.  Links: Nintendo sues Switch emulator Yuzu — The Verge Nintendo Switch emulator Yuzu will fold and pay $2.4M to settle its lawsuit — The Verge Steve Jobs announcing a PlayStation emulator for the Mac — YouTube Fans freak out as Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom leaks two weeks early — Kotaku Tears of the Kingdom Was Pirated 1 Million Times, Nintendo Claims — Kotaku The solid legal theory behind Nintendo’s new emulator takedown effort — Ars Technica How Nintendo’s destruction of Yuzu is rocking the emulator world — The Verge How strong is Nintendo’s legal case against Switch-emulator Yuzu? — Ars Technica Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Intuit Mailchimp CEO Rania Succar, who took over as CEO in 2022 after a pretty rough patch in the company’s history. In 2021, Intuit acquired the company, and the very next year, co-founder Ben Chestnut stepped down after telling employees that he thought introducing themselves with pronouns in meetings did more harm than good. After that, Rania took over. This is a pretty huge culture change, especially as Mailchimp became more integrated with Intuit. It was also a big challenge for a new leader who came in from the outside. You’ll hear us talk about that transition a lot. Rania and I also got into the weeds of making decisions, which is very Decoder. And, of course, we had to talk about generative AI, which is a big part of the Mailchimp road map. This was a really fun conversation with some honestly scary ideas in it — and it’s all about email. Links: Mailchimp employees have complained about inequality for years — The Verge Mailchimp Employees Are Fuming Over $12 Billion Deal — Business Insider Did this email cost Mailchimp's billionaire CEO his job? — Platformer Mailchimp is shutting down TinyLetter — The Verge TinyLetter, in memoriam — The Verge Did Mailchimp censor J.D. Vance? — Mother Jones Hackers breached Mailchimp to phish cryptocurrency wallets — The Verge Boring, mundane businesses have an exhilarating, viral life on TikTok — The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23879556 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone it’s Nilay – I’m on vacation this week, so the Decoder team is taking a short break. We’ll be back next week with both the interview and the new explainer episodes. To tide you over until Monday, we have a bonus episode from our friends at Vox Media and Eater’s Gastropod about an incredible patent battle in the world of pizza.  I’m serious: One of the biggest fights in the pizza industry took place in US court in the ‘90s — an intellectual property dispute about stuffed crust pizza between Pizza Hut and patent holder Anthony “The Big Cheese” Mongiello.  So much of what we talk about on Decoder comes down to IP lawsuits like copyright or patent disputes, and how judges decide those cases and where the law ends up can steer the course of history. And that’s true whether we’re talking about a line of code, the distribution method of an MP3, or, yes, even stuffed crust pizza.  Links:  Can You Patent a Pizza? — Gastropod Ivana and Donald Trump Pizza Hut Commercial — YouTube The Next Big Thing in Pizza? Try 'Stuffed Crust' — NYT Who Created the Stuffed Crust Pizza? It's Complicated. — Eater Method of making a pizza — Google Patents Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Jay Graber, the CEO of Bluesky Social, which is a decentralized competitor to Meta’s Threads, Mastodon, and X. Bluesky actually started inside of what was then known as Twitter — it was a project from then-CEO Jack Dorsey, who spent his days wandering the earth and saying things like Twitter should be a protocol and not a company. Bluesky was supposed to be that protocol, but Jack spun it out of Twitter in 2021, just before Elon Musk bought the company and renamed it X. Bluesky is now an independent company with a few dozen employees, and it finds itself in the middle of one of the most chaotic moments in the history of social media. There are a lot of companies and ideas competing for space on the post-Twitter internet, and Jay makes a convincing argument that decentralization — the idea that you should be able to take your username and following to different servers as you wish — is the future. Links:  Twitter is funding research into a decentralized version of its platform — The Verge Bluesky built a decentralized protocol for Twitter — and is working on an app that uses it — The Verge The fediverse, explained — The Verge Bluesky showed everyone’s ass — The Verge Can ActivityPub save the internet? — The Verge The ‘queer.af’ Mastodon instance disappeared because of the Taliban — The Verge Usage Of Elon Musk’s X Dropped 30% In The Last Year, Study Suggests — Forbes Bluesky snags former Twitter/X Trust & Safety exec cut by Musk — TechCrunch Bluesky and Mastodon users are having a fight that could shape the next generation of social media — TechCrunch Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech — Mike Masnick Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23872913 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Both the EU and US have spent the past decade looking at Big Tech and saying, "someone should do something!" In the US, lawmakers are still basically shouting that. But in the EU, regulators did something. The Digital Markets Act was proposed in 2020, signed into law in 2022, and went into effect this month. It's already having an effect on some of the biggest companies in tech, including Apple, Google, and Microsoft. In theory it's a landmark law that will change the way these companies compete, and how their products operate, for years to come. How did we get here, what does the law actually say, and will it work half as well in practice as it does on paper? Verge reporter Jon Porter comes on Decoder to help me break it down.  Links:  The EU's new competition rules are going live — here's how tech giants are responding | The Verge Apple hit with a nearly $2 billion fine following Spotify complaint | The Verge Experts fear the Digital Markets Act won’t address tech monopolies | The Verge Dirty tricks or small wins: developers are skeptical of Apple's App Store rules | The Verge Google Search, WhatsApp, and TikTok on list of 22 services targeted by EU’s tough new DMA | The Verge The EU’s Digital Services Act is now in effect: here’s what that means | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve got a fun one today — I talked to Figma CEO Dylan Field in front of a live audience at South by Southwest in Austin, Texas. And we got into it – we talked about everything from design, to software distribution, to the future of the web, and, of course, AI.  Figma is an fascinating company – the Figma design tool is used by designers at basically every company you can think of. And importantly, it runs on the web. It became such a big deal that Adobe tried to buy it out in 2022 for $20 billion dollars, a deal that only just recently fell through because of regulatory concerns.  So Dylan and I talked a lot about where Figma is now as an independent company, how Figma is structured, where it’s going, and how Dylan’s decisionmaking has changed since the last time he was on the show in 2022. Links: Why Figma is selling to Adobe for $20 billion, with CEO Dylan Field — Decoder Adobe abandons $20 billion acquisition of Figma — The Verge Adobe’s Dana Rao on AI, copyright, and the failed Figma deal — Decoder Figma’s CEO on life after the company’s failed sale to Adobe — Command Line Amazon restricts self-publishing due to AI concerns — The Guardian Wix’s new AI chatbot builds websites in seconds based on prompts — The Verge Apple is finally allowing full versions of Chrome and Firefox on the iPhone — The Verge What Is Solarpunk? A Guide to the Environmental Art Movement. — Built In Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23866201 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you’ve been listening to Decoder or the Vergecast for a while, you know that I am obsessed with Google Search, the web, and how both of those things might change in the age of AI. But to really understand how something might change, you have to step back and understand what it is right now.  So today I’m talking with Verge platforms reporter Mia Sato about Google Search, the industries it’s created, and more importantly, how relentless search engine optimization, or SEO, has utterly changed the web in its image. Mia and I really dug into this to explain why search results are so terrible now, what Google is trying to do about it, and why this is such an important issue for the future of the internet. Links:  How Google is killing independent sites like ours — HouseFresh How Google perfected the web — The Verge The people who ruined the internet — The Verge A storefront for robots — The Verge The end of the Googleverse — The Verge The unsettling scourge of obituary spam — The Verge What happens when Google Search doesn’t have the answers? — The Verge The AI takeover of Google Search starts now — The Verge AI is killing the old web, and the new web struggles to be born — The Verge Google is starting to squash more spam and AI in search results — The Verge Ethics Statement — The Verge Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Kyle Chayka, a staff writer for The New Yorker, a regular contributor to The Verge, and author of the new book Filterworld: How Algorithms Flattened Culture. Kyle has been writing for years now about how the culture of big social media platforms bleeds into real life, first affecting how things look, and now shaping how and what culture is created and the mechanisms by which that culture spreads all around the world.  If you’ve been listening to Decoder, this is all going to sound very familiar. The core thesis of Kyle’s book — that algorithmic recommendations make everything feel the same — hits at an idea that we’ve talked about countless times on the show: that how content is distributed shapes what content is made. So I was really excited to sit down with Kyle and dig into Filterworld and his thoughts on how this happened and what we might be able to do about it. Links:  Filterworld: How Algorithms Flattened Culture — Kyle Chayka Welcome to AirSpace — The Verge The Stanley water bottle craze, explained — Vox TikTok and the vibes revival — The New Yorker Why the internet isn’t fun anymore — The New Yorker The age of algorithmic anxiety — The New Yorker Lo-fi beats to quarantine to are booming on YouTube — The Verge Taylor Swift has encouraged her fans' numerology habit yet again — AV Club How fandom built the internet as we know it, with Kaitlyn Tiffany — Decoder Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23858379 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our Thursday episodes are all about big topics in the news, and this week we’re wrapping up our short series on one of the biggest topics of all: generative AI. In our last couple episodes, we talked a lot about some of the biggest, most complicated legal and policy questions surrounding the modern AI industry, including copyright lawsuits and deepfake legislation. But we wanted to end on a more personal note: How is this technology making people feel, and in particular how is it affecting how people communicate and connect? Verge reporter Miya David has covered AI chatbots — specifically AI romance bots — quite a bit, so we invited her onto the show to talk about how generative AI is finding its way into dating. We not only discussed how this technology is affecting dating apps and human relationships, but also how the boom in AI chatbot sophistication is laying the groundwork for a generation of people who might form meaningful relationships with so-called AI companions. Links:  Speak, Memory — The Verge A conversation with Bing’s chatbot left me deeply unsettled — NYT Google suspends engineer who claims its AI is sentient — The Verge The law of AI girlfriends — The Verge Replika’s new AI therapy app tries to bring you to a zen island — The Verge Replika’s new AI app is like Tinder but with sexy chatbots — Gizmodo Don’t date robots; their privacy policies are terrible — The Verge AI is shaking up online dating with chatbots that are ‘flirty but not too flirty’ — CNBC Loneliness and suicide mitigation for students using GPT3-enabled chatbots — Nature Virtual valentine: People are turning to AI in search of emotional connections — CBS Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23856679 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On this special episode of Decoder, science educator and YouTuber Hank Green is guest hosting. And the guest? It’s Nilay Patel, who sat down with Hank to discuss building The Verge, the state of media, and the future of the web. Also: whether the fediverse is worth investing in, and how social platforms’ control of distribution has shaped the internet. In the words of Hank: “Nilay has got some weird ideas about the internet. For example, that he’s going to revolutionize the media through blog posts. He keeps saying it, but what the hell does he mean? While I was busy building my business on other people’s platforms, Nilay has built something very rare in the year 2024: a website that publishes content and isn’t behind a paywall yet still makes money. How does he do it? How does he make decisions? How is The Verge structured? The tables have turned.” Links: Why Hank Green can’t quit YouTube for TikTok — Decoder Platformer’s Casey Newton on surviving the great media collapse and what comes next — Decoder Just buy this Brother laser printer everyone has, it’s fine — The Verge Sports Illustrated Published Articles by Fake, AI-Generated Writers — Futurism The fediverse, explained — The Verge Can ActivityPub save the internet? — The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23851875 The Vergecast and Decoder are live at SXSW this weekend, March 8th and 9th. SXSW attendees can see both shows live on the official Vox Media Podcast Stage at the JW Marriott, presented by Atlassian. Learn more at voxmedia.com/live. Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our new Thursday episodes of Decoder are all about deep dives into big topics in the news, and this week we’re continuing our mini-series on one of the biggest topics of all: generative AI. Last week, we took a look at the wave of copyright lawsuits that might eventually grind this whole industry to a halt. Those are basically a coin flip — and the outcomes are off in the distance, as those cases wind their way through the legal system.  A bigger problem right now is that AI systems are really good at making just believable enough fake images and audio — and with tools like OpenAI’s new Sora, maybe video soon, too. And of course, it’s once again a presidential election year here in the US. So today, Verge policy editor Adi Robertson joins the show to discuss how AI might supercharge disinformation and lies in an election that’s already as contentious as any in our lifetimes — and what might be done about it. Links:  How the Mueller report indicts social networks Twitter permanently bans Trump Meta allows Trump back on Facebook and Instagram No Fakes Act wants to protect actors and singers from unauthorized AI replicas White House calls for legislation to stop Taylor Swift AI fakes Watermarks aren’t the silver bullet for AI misinformation AI Drake just set an impossible legal trap for Google Barack Obama on AI, free speech, and the future of the internet Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Rahul Purini, the president of Crunchyroll, a streaming service focused entirely on anime — and really, the biggest anime service still going. Rahul has a long history with anime: he spent more than seven years at Funimation, a company that started in the 90s to distribute Dragon Ball Z to US audiences, before getting the top job at Crunchyroll. Anime might seem like niche content, but it’s not nearly as niche as you might think – our colleagues over at Polygon just ran a huge survey of anime viewers and found that 42% of Gen Z and 25% of millennials watch anime regularly. And Crunchyroll is growing with that audience — like most entertainment providers, the service absolutely exploded during the pandemic, going from 5 million paying subscribers in 2021 to more than 13 million as of last month.  But interestingly Rahul says Crunchyroll’s growth isn’t being driven by more and more people watching anime, but more and more anime fans — especially those watching pirated content — choosing to pay for it. Links:  Anime is huge, and we finally have numbers to prove it — Polygon Funimation is shutting down — and taking your digital library with it — The Verge Sony completes acquisition of Crunchyroll from AT&T — The Verge Funimation’s anime library is moving over to Crunchyroll — The Verge Crunchyroll now has more than 13 Million subscribers — Cord Cutters News Crunchyroll's CEO Colin Decker leaves company; Rahul Purini becomes new president — Anime News Network PlayStation keeps reminding us why digital ownership sucks — The Verge Sony’s Crunchyroll launches free 24-hour streaming channel — Variety Crunchyroll is adding mobile games to its subscription — The Verge How Is Funimation producing so many simuldubs? — Anime News Network Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23845221 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Decoder team is off this week. We’ll be back next week with both the interview and the new explainer episodes; we’re really excited about what’s on the schedule here.  In the meantime, I thought you all might enjoy a conversation I had with Kara Swisher, the Wall Street Journal’s Joanna Stern and Bloomberg’s Mark Gurman about the Apple Vision Pro. All of us have been covering Apple for a very long time, and we had a lot of fun swapping impressions, talking strategy, and sharing what we liked, and didn’t like, about Apple’s $3,500 headset.  Links:  Apple Vision Pro review: magic, until it’s not — The Verge The shine comes off the Vision Pro — The Verge Everything we know about Apple’s Vision Pro — The Verge Why some of Apple’s biggest fans are returning their Vision Pros — Bloomberg Apple’s Vision Pro Is an iPad killer, but not anytime soon — Bloomberg I worked, cooked and even skied with the new Apple Vision Pro — WSJ Vision Pro review: 24 hours in Apple’s mixed-reality headset — WSJ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our new Thursday episodes are all about deep dives into big topics in the news, and for the next few weeks we’re going to stay focused on one of the biggest topics of all: generative AI. There’s a lot going on in the world of generative AI, but maybe the biggest is the increasing number of copyright lawsuits being filed against AI companies like OpenAI and StabilityAI. So for this episode, we’re going to talk about those cases, and the main defense the AI companies are relying on: an idea called fair use. To help explain this mess, I talked with Sarah Jeong. Sarah is a former lawyer and a features editor here at The Verge, and she is also one of my very favorite people to talk to about copyright. I promise you we didn’t get totally off the rails nerding out about it, but we went a little off the rails. The first thing we had to figure out was: How big a deal are these AI copyright suits? Links:  The New York Times sues OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement --- The Verge The scary truth about AI copyright is nobody knows what will happen next — The Verge How copyright lawsuits could kill OpenAI — Vox How Adobe is managing the AI copyright dilemma, with general counsel Dana Rao --- The Verge Generative AI Has a visual plagiarism problem - IEEE Spectrum George Carlin estate sues creators of AI-generated comedy special — THR AI-Generated Taylor Swift porn went viral on Twitter. Here's how it got there — 404 Media AI copyright lawsuit hinges on the legal concept of ‘fair use’ — The Washington Post Intellectual property experts discuss fair use in the age of AI — Harvard Law School OpenAI says it’s “impossible” to create useful AI models without copyrighted material — Ars Technica Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Jonathan Kanter, the Assistant Attorney General in charge of the Antitrust Division at the Department of Justice. Alongside FTC chair Lina Khan, Jonathan is one of the most prominent figures in the big shift happening in competition and antitrust in the United States. This is a fun episode: we taped this conversation live on stage at the Digital Content Next conference in Charleston, South Carolina a few days ago, so you’ll hear the audience, which was a group of fancy media company executives.  You’ll also hear me joke about Google a few times; fancy media execs are very interested in the cases the DOJ has brought against Google for monopolizing search and advertising tech — and Jonathan was very good at not commenting about pending litigation. But he did have a lot to say about the state of tech regulation, he and Khan’s track record so far, and why he thinks the concepts they’re pushing forward are more accessible than they’ve ever been. Links:  The top Biden lawyer with his sights on Apple and Google — Politico Judge blocks a merger of Penguin Random House and Simon & Schuster — NYT FTC’s Khan and DOJ’s Kanter beat back deals at fastest clip in decades — Bloomberg Google will face another antitrust trial September 9th, this time over ad tech — The Verge In the Google antitrust trial, defaults are everything and nobody likes Bing — The Verge Google Search, Chrome, and Android are all changing thanks to EU antitrust law — The Verge Aggregation Theory — Stratechery Adobe explains why it abandoned the Figma deal — The Verge How the EU’s DMA is changing Big Tech — The Verge Epic Games CEO calls out Apple’s DMA rules as ‘malicious compliance’ — TechCrunch Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23831914 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re very excited for today’s episode, because from now on we’ll be delivering you two Decoders every week. On Monday’s we’ll have our classic interviews with CEOs and other high-profile guests. But our new shorter Thursday episode – like today’s – will explain big topics in the news with Verge reporters, experts, and other friends of the show.  The big idea we’re going to jump into today does in fact have a lot of problems: electric vehicle adoption in the US. We invited Verge Transportation Editor Andy Hawkins, who’s been covering the EV transition for years, to walk us through what’s happening.  Late last year, Andy wrote a fantastic article called, “The EV Transition trips over its own cord.” It was all about the kind of paradox of the EV market right now: The momentum for electric cars in America feels like it’s started to hit serious snags, even though more people than ever before are going fully electric. The stakes are high, and there’s a lot going on. Let’s get into it.  Links:  The EV transition trips over its own cord — The Verge We’re down to just a handful of EVs that qualify for the full US tax credit — The Verge Electric cars were having issues. Then things got political — WSJ Tesla is becoming a partisan brand, says survey — Eletrek 16 Republican governors urge Biden EPA to roll back proposed electric vehicle standards — USA Today Slow rollout of national charging system could hinder EV adoption — NYT Want to stare into the Republican soul in 2023? — Slate Biden vetoes Republican measure to block electric vehicle charging stations — NYT The Biden administration is pumping more money into EV charging infrastructure — The Verge GM should just bring back the Chevy Volt — The Verge Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Casey Newton, the founder and editor of the Platformer newsletter and co-host of the Hard Fork podcast. Casey is also a former editor here at The Verge and was my co-host at the Code Conference last year. Most importantly, Casey and I are also very close friends, so this episode is a little looser than usual.  I wanted to talk to Casey for a few reasons. One, the media industry overall is falling apart, with huge layoffs at almost every media organization you can think of happening weekly, but small newsletters seem to be a bright spot. So I wanted to talk about how Platformer started, how Casey got it to where it is, and how much farther he thinks it can go. And then, I wanted to talk about Substack. It’s the newsletter platform Paltformer used to call its home, but content moderation problems — including its decision to allow Nazis to monetize on the platform — have pushed away a number of its customers, including Platformer.  This episode goes deep, but it’s fun — Casey is just one of my favorite people, and he is not shy about saying what he thinks. Links:  Can Substack CEO Chris Best build a new model for journalism? — The Verge Substack launches its Twitter-like Notes — The Verge Substack Has a Nazi Problem — The Atlantic Substack says it will remove Nazi publications from the platform --- Platformer Substack keeps the Nazis, loses Platformer — The Verge  Why Platformer is leaving Substack — Platformer The Messenger to close after less than a year — The New York Times Do countries with better-funded public media also have healthier democracies? — Nieman Lab AI is killing the old web, and the new web struggles to be born — The Verge The Biden deepfake robocall Is only the beginning — WIRED Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23823565 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Senator Brian Schatz, of Hawaii. We joke that Decoder is ultimately a show about org charts, but there’s a lot of truth to it. We talked about the separate offices he has to balance against each other, and the concessions he has to make to work within the Senate structure. We also talked a lot about two of the biggest issues in tech regulation today. One is Europe, which is doing a lot of regulation while the US does almost none. How does a senator think about the U.S. all but abdicating that space? The other is one of the few places the US is trying to take action right now: children’s online safety. Schatz is involved with two pieces of child safety legislation, the Kids Online Safety Act and the Protecting Kids on Social Media Act, that could fundamentally reshape online life for teens and children across the country. But the big stumbling block for passing any laws about content moderation is, of course, the First Amendment. Links:  Strict Scrutiny — LII / Legal Information Institute The Uniquely American Future of US Authoritarianism — WIRED How the EU’s DMA is changing Big Tech: all of the news and updates — The Verge AI Labeling Act of 2023 (S. 2691) — GovTrack.us Mark Zuckerberg testimony: senators seem really confused about Facebook — Vox Big Tech and the Online Child Sexual Exploitation Crisis — Senate Judiciary Committee AI tools will make it easy to create fake porn of just about anybody — The Verge They thought loved ones were calling for help. It was an AI scam — The Washington Post. Protecting Kids on Social Media Act (S, 1291) — GovTrack.us Kids Online Safety Act (S. 1409) — GovTrack.us Kids Online Safety Shouldn’t Require Massive Online Censorship and Surveillance — EFF TikTok ban: all the news on attempts to ban the video platform — The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23818699 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Representative Ro Khanna, a Democrat from California. He’s been in Congress for eight years now, representing California’s 17th District, which is arguably the highest-tech district in the entire country. You’ll hear him say a couple of times that there’s $10 trillion of tech market value in his district, and that’s not an exaggeration: Apple, Intel, and Nvidia are all headquartered in his district, along with important new AI firms like Anthropic and OpenAI.  I wanted to know how Khanna thinks about representing those companies but also the regular people in his district; the last time I spoke to him, in 2018, he reminded me that he’s got plenty of teachers and firefighters to represent as well. But the politics of tech have changed a lot in these past few years — and things are only going to get both more complicated and more tense as Trump and Biden head into what will obviously be a contentious and bitter presidential election. Links:  Democrats must not repeat the mistakes of globalization California bill to ban driverless autonomous trucks goes to Newsom's desk In labor snub, California governor vetoes bill that would have limited self-driving trucks A lawyer used ChatGPT and now has to answer for its ‘bogus’ citations Barack Obama on AI, free speech, and the future of the internet Music streaming platforms must pay artists more, says EU Sideloading and other changes are coming to iOS in the EU soon Clock running out on antitrust bill targeting big tech Silicon Valley’s Rep. Ro Khanna talks Congress’ plans to regulate Big Tech Trump pushing Microsoft to buy TikTok was ‘strangest thing I’ve ever worked on,’ says Satya Nadella Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23810838 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I'm talking to Dana Rao, who is General Counsel and Chief Trust Officer at Adobe. Now, if you're a longtime Decoder listener, you know that I have always been fascinated with Adobe, which I think the tech press largely undercovers. If you're interested in how creativity happens, you're kind of necessarily interested in what Adobe's up to. And it is fascinating to consider how Dana's job as Adobe's top lawyer is really at the center of the company's future.  The copyright issues with generative AI are so unknown and unfolding so fast that they will necessarily shape what kind of products Adobe can even make in the future, and what people can make with those products. The company also just tried and failed to buy the popular upstart design company Figma, a potentially $20 billion deal that was shut down over antitrust concerns in the European Union. So Dana and I had a lot to talk about. Links:  Adobe abandons $20 billion acquisition of Figma Adobe explains why it abandoned the Figma deal Why Figma is selling to Adobe for $20 billion, with CEO Dylan Field Figma’s CEO laments demise of $20 billion deal with Adobe Adobe proposes anti-impersonation law Adobe’s Dana Rao doesn’t want you to get duped by A The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft Adobe’s Photoshop on the web launch includes its popular desktop AI tools Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23791239 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

2023 will go down as the year that Elon Musk killed Twitter. First he did it in a big way, by buying the company, firing most of the employees, and destabilizing the platform; then he did it in a small, but important, symbolic way, by renaming the company X and trying to make a full break with what came before. So now that the story of the company named Twitter is officially over, it felt important to stop and ask: What was Twitter, anyway, and why were so many powerful people obsessed with it for so long? In this special episode, I sat down with Marty Baron, former executive editor of The Washington Post, and Zoe Schiffer, managing editor of Platform and author of Extremely Hardcore: Inside Elon Musk’s Twitter. We discussed how two of Twitter’s most dedicated power users – Donald Trump and Elon Musk — were addicted to the platform, defined it, changed it, broke it, and then put it to rest. Links:  The year Twitter died: a special series from The Verge Extremely softcore Inside Elon Musk's “extremely hardcore” Twitter How Twitter broke the news Trump vs. Twitter: The president takes on social media moderation Martin Baron recounts leading The Washington Post during the Trump era Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ryan Petersen is the founder and CEO of Flexport, which makes software to optimize shipping everything from huge containers to ecommerce deliveries. It’s a fascinating company; we had Ryan on to explain it last year. Right around the first time we spoke, Ryan handed off the CEO role to 20-year Amazon veteran Dave Clark. Then, barely a year later, Dave got fired, and Ryan returned after CEO. I always joke that Decoder is a show about org charts… so why did Ryan make and then unmake the biggest org chart decision there is?  Links:  Can software simplify the supply chain? Ryan Petersen thinks so - The Verge Amazon consumer chief Dave Clark to join Flexport as its new CEO Flexport CEO Dave Clark resigns from logistics startup after one year in the role Flexport founder publicly slams his handpicked successor for hiring spree, rescinds offers Ousted Flexport CEO Dave Clark strikes back The real story behind a tech founder's 'tweetstorm that saves Christmas' Panama Canal has gotten so dry and backed up after brutal drought that shippers are paying up to $4m to jump the queue When Shipping Containers Sink in the Drink | The New Yorker Transcript:  https://www.theverge.com/e/23770977 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The US Digital Service has a fascinating structure: it comprises nearly 250 people, all of whom serve two-year stints developing apps, improving websites, and streamlining government services. You could call USDS the product and design consultancy for the rest of the government. The Obama administration launched the USDS in 2014, after the disastrous rollout of healthcare.gov and the tech sprint that saved it. USDS administrator Mina Hsiang explains to Decoder how it all works, and what she hopes it can do next. Links:  Here’s Why Healthcare.gov Broke Down (2013) Obamacare's 'tech surge' adds manpower to an already-bloated project (2013) Decoder: Barack Obama on AI, free speech, and the future of the internet Jeff Bezos Confirmed the "Question Mark Method" A comprehensive list of 2023 tech layoffs Tech to Gov U.S. Digital Corps Presidential Innovation Fellows AI.gov United States Digital Service Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23761681 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

IBM made some announcements this week about its plans for the next ten years of quantum computing: there are new chips, new computers, and new APIs. Quantum computers could in theory entirely revolutionize the way we think of computers… if, that is, someone can build one that’s actually useful. Jerry Chow, director of quantum systems at IBM, explains to Decoder just how close the field is to actual utility.   Links:  What is a Qubit? | Microsoft Azure IBM Quantum Summit 2023 The Wired Guide to Quantum Computing IBM Makes Quantum Computing Available on IBM Cloud to Accelerate Innovation (2016) Multiple Patterning - Semiconductor Engineering IBM Quantum Roadmap (2023) That viral LK-99 ‘superconductor’ isn’t a superconductor after all - The Verge NIST to Standardize Encryption Algorithms That Can Resist Attack by Quantum Computers Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23752312 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I’m talking with Avishai Abrahami, the CEO of Wix. You might know Wix as a website builder. It’s a competitor to WordPress and Squarespace. Tons of sites across the web run on Wix. But the web is changing rapidly, and Wix’s business today is less about web publishing, and more about providing software to help business owners run their entire companies. It’s fascinating, and Avishai has built a fascinating structure inside of Wix to make all that happen.   Wix is also an Israeli company. Avishai joined from the company’s headquarters in Tel Aviv. And I’ll just tell you right up front that we talked about Israel’s war with Hamas and its impact on the company. And that this conversation was not always comfortable. But the main theme of our conversation was, of course, the future of the web, especially a web that seems destined to be overrun by cheap AI-generated SEO spam. Links:  Doom runs on Excel Wix will let you build an entire website using only AI prompts Wix.com Launches Wix ADI and Delivers the Future of website creation YouTube is going to start cracking down on AI clones of musicians The people who ruined the internet The restaurant nearest Google OpenAI can’t tell if something was written by AI after all AI is killing the old web, and the new web struggles to be born Squarespace CEO Anthony Casalena on why anyone makes a website in 2023 What will changing Section 230 mean for the internet? Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23742026 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What actually happened at OpenAI in the last three days? Decoder host and Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel talks with Verge editors Alex Heath and David Pierce to break it down and try to work out what's next. Further reading: Sam Altman fired as CEO of OpenAI OpenAI’s new CEO is Twitch co-founder Emmett Shear OpenAI board in discussions with Sam Altman to return as CEO Emmett Shear named new CEO of OpenAI by board Microsoft hires former OpenAI CEO Sam Altman Hundreds of OpenAI employees threaten to resign and join Microsoft Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO We’re doing a survey on how people use The Verge (and what they’d want from a Verge subscription). If you’re interested in helping us out, you can fill out the survey right here: http://theverge.com/survey Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Liam James, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. It was edited by Andru Marino.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Jim Rowan, the CEO of Volvo Cars. Now, Jim’s only been at Volvo for a short time. He took over in 2022 after a decades-long career in the consumer electronics industry. Before Volvo, his two longest stints were at BlackBerry, whose QNX software is used in tons of cars, and then at Dyson, which once tried and failed to make an electric car. Jim and I talked a lot about how that unique experience has influenced how he thinks about the transformational changes happening in the world of cars. For Volvo, the stakes are high. The company has pledged to be all-electric by the end of the decade, and Jim is also making some very different bets on software and revenue than the rest of the car industry. Jim’s view is that automakers are undergoing three major shifts all at once: electrification, autonomy, and direct-to-consumer sales. With Volvo, Jim is trying to steer the ship through these changes and come out an EV-only carmaker on the other end. Links: Volvo plans to sell only electric cars by 2030 Volvo’s EX90 is a powerful computer that also happens to be an impeccably designed EV Can Polestar design a new kind of car company? The EV transition trips over its own cord Volvo’s upcoming EVs join the Tesla Supercharger bandwagon Future Volvo cars to run on Volvo operating system Audi and Volvo will use Android as the operating system in upcoming cars Volvo’s first EV will run native Android The rest of the auto industry still loves CarPlay and Android Auto The future of cars is a subscription nightmare Everybody hates GM’s decision to kill Apple CarPlay and Android Auto for its EVs Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23722862 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve got a good one today. I’m talking to former President Barack Obama about AI, social networks, and how to think about democracy as both of those things collide.  I sat down with Obama last week at his offices in Washington, DC, just hours after President Joe Biden signed a sweeping executive order about AI. You’ll hear Obama say he’s been talking to the Biden administration and leaders across the tech industry about AI and how best to regulate it. My idea here was to talk to Obama the constitutional law professor more than Obama the politician. So this one got wonky fast.  You’ll also hear him say that he joined our show because he wanted to reach you, the Decoder audience, and get you all thinking about these problems. One of Obama’s worries is that the government needs insight and expertise to properly regulate AI, and you’ll hear him make a pitch for why people with that expertise should take a tour of duty in the government to make sure we get these things right. Links:  Biden releases AI executive order directing agencies to develop safety guidelines Clarence Thomas really wants Congress to regulate Twitter moderation Google CEO Sundar Pichai compares impact of AI to electricity and fire Sam Altman sells superintelligent sunshine as protestors call for AGI pause The Skokie case: How I came to represent the free speech rights of Nazis Disinformation is a threat to our democracy World leaders are gathering at the U.K.'s AI Summit. Doom is on the agenda. George R.R. Martin and other authors sue OpenAI for copyright infringement A conversation with Bing’s chatbot left me deeply unsettled Introducing the AI Mirror Test, which very smart people keep failing Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23712912 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I'm talking with Golnar Khosrowshahi, the founder and CEO of Reservoir Media, a newer record label that I think looks a lot like the future of the music industry. As Golnar explains, Reservoir thinks of individual songs as assets, and after acquiring them, the company sets about monetizing those assets in various ways. This is a copyright-based business in an age where copyright is under a lot of pressure — from TikTok, generative AI, and all of the now-familiar threats to the music business. If you're a Decoder listener, you know that I love thinking about the music industry. Whatever technology does to music, it does to everything else five years later. So paying attention to music is the best way I know to get ahead of the curve. I also just love music. Golnar is herself a musician. She obviously cares about music a lot, and she's clearly given a lot of thought to what happens next. So this was a great conversation.  Links: Drake’s AI clone is here — and Drake might not be able to stop him Hipgnosis made mega deals for song catalogs. Its future Is unclear. Reservoir acquires iconic Tommy Boy Music for $100 million Ed Sheeran wins copyright case over Marvin Gaye’s ‘Let’s Get It On’ Spotify is reportedly making major changes to its royalty model Hipgnosis shareholders vote against continuation of UK-listed music investment trust AI can actually help protect creativity and copyrights Google and YouTube are trying to have it both ways with AI and copyright No Fakes Act wants to protect actors and singers from unauthorized AI replicas ‘Glocalisation’ of music streaming within and across Europe Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23702539 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to internet policy legend Lawrence Lessig. He's been teaching law for more than 30 years, and is a defining expert on free speech and the internet — and something of a hero of mine, whose works I've been reading since college. You’ll hear us agree that the internet at this moment in time is absolutely flooded with disinformation, misinformation, and other really toxic stuff that’s harmful to us as individuals and, frankly, to our future as a functioning democracy. But you’ll also hear us disagree a fair amount about what to do about it. The First Amendment, AI, copyright law — there's a lot to unpack here. Links:  https://asml.cyber.harvard.edu/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/10/17/1081194/how-to-fix-the-internet-online-discourse/ https://www.protocol.com/facebook-papers https://www.tiktok.com/@aocinthehouse/video/7214318917135830318?lang=en https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/sensitive-claims-bias-facebook-relaxed-misinformation-rules-conservative-pages-n1236182 https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/repetition-lie-truth-propaganda/ https://www.theverge.com/23883027/alvarez-stolen-valor-first-amendment-kosseff-liar-crowded-theater https://fortune.com/2023/05/30/sam-altman-ai-risk-of-extinction-pandemics-nuclear-warfare/ https://www.americanbar.org/groups/intellectual_property_law/publications/landslide/2019-20/september-october/into-fandomverse/ Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23693274 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Kashmir Hill, a New York Times reporter whose new book, Your Face Belongs to Us: A Secretive Startup’s Quest to End Privacy as We Know It, chronicles the story of Clearview AI, a company that’s built some of the most sophisticated facial recognition and search technology that’s ever existed. As Kashmir reports, you simply plug a photo of someone into Clearview’s app, and it will find every photo of that person that’s ever been posted on the internet. It’s breathtaking and scary. Kashmir was the journalist who broke the first story about Clearview’s existence, starting with a bombshell investigation report that blew the doors open on the company’s clandestine operations. Over the past few years, she’s been relentlessly reporting on Clearview’s growth, the privacy implications of facial recognition technology, and all of the cautionary tales that inevitably popped up, from wrongful arrests to billionaires using the technology for personal vendettas. The book is fantastic. If you’re a Decoder listener, you’re going to love it, and I highly recommend it.  Links:  The secretive company that may end privacy as we know it What we learned about Clearview AI and its secret ‘co-founder’ Clearview AI does well in another round of facial recognition accuracy tests hiQ and LinkedIn reach proposed settlement in landmark scraping case My chilling run-in with a secretive facial-recognition app Clearview’s facial recognition app Is identifying child victims of abuse ‘Thousands of dollars for something I didn’t do’ How we store and search 30 billion faces Clearview AI agrees to permanent ban on selling facial recognition to private companies Clearview fined again in France for failing to comply with privacy orders Privacy law prevents Illinoisans from using Google app’s selfie art feature Madison Square Garden uses facial recognition to ban its owner’s enemies Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23683175 Credits:  Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we’re bringing you the last of our live-on-stage interviews from the 2023 Code Conference. Verge deputy editor Alex Heath sat down to chat with Roblox CEO David Baszucki.  Roblox definitely started out as a kid thing, but the company has big plans to change all that, and Alex got to find out a bit about how that’s going. Roblox is determined to be a platform, even more than a product — something users can develop games and experiences on. And of course, David and Alex spoke about AI. David sees a lot of opportunity for generative AI to help content creators on the Roblox platform in the not-so-distant future.  Links:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfYz8weQm4M https://techcrunch.com/2023/09/21/roblox-cuts-30-on-talent-acquisition-team-as-hiring-slows/ https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/8/23864858/roblox-ceo-prediction-adults-dating-experiences-rdc-2023 https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/27/23889307/meta-ray-ban-smart-glasses-wearables-connect https://www.theverge.com/23775268/roblox-ceo-david-baszucki-gaming-metaverse-robux-virtual-reality https://mashable.com/article/karlie-kloss-roblox-klossette https://www.theverge.com/23734209/parsons-roblox-design-class-metaverse-fashion Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23677085 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Amanda Rose Smith. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve got another interview from the Code Conference today. My friend and co-host, CNBC’s Julia Boorstin, and I had a chance to talk with Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe. Rivian is a newer company — RJ started it in 2009, and it took more than 10 years to start shipping cars to consumers. But its first vehicle, the R1T pickup, made a big splash when it arrived in 2021, and the company has more back orders for both the R1T and its second vehicle, the R1S SUV, than it can handle. For now. We asked RJ about that production ramp and whether Rivian can meet demand, and whether it’s just early adopters buying EVs or if they’ve finally gone mainstream. The conversation also touched on Rivian’s deal with Amazon and the auto industry’s push toward subscription features. And, of course, I had to ask Scaringe about the Cybertruck. How could I resist?! Links:  BMW starts selling heated seat subscriptions for $18 a month BMW drops plan to charge a monthly fee for heated seats U.A.W. expands strikes at automakers: Here’s what to know. Rivian boosts EV production target as supply problems ease Ford F-150 Lightning gets $10K price cut as ramping supply meets demand First look at Cybertruck’s comically large windshield wiper in action Amazon says it has ‘over a thousand’ Rivian electric vans making deliveries in the US Rivian to adopt Tesla's charging standard in EVs and chargers Rivian electric pickup caught fire while charging at Electrify America station Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23672708 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Last week, when I was co-hosting the Code Conference, I got to talk with Getty Images CEO Craig Peters. The generative AI boom is a direct threat to Getty in many ways. For example, the company is suing Stability AI for training the Stable Diffusion model on Getty content — sometimes clearly including AI-generated copies of the Getty watermark — without permission. Getty's answer? Its own proprietary, in-house AI tool, trained — with permission — on its own content, using a model where the original creators can get paid. Getty's put some pretty strict guardrails around it for now, but, as even Craig told us, there's still a lot of work to do. Links:  https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/21/23364696/getty-images-ai-ban-generated-artwork-illustration-copyright https://www.theverge.com/2023/2/6/23587393/ai-art-copyright-lawsuit-getty-images-stable-diffusion https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/25/23884679/getty-ai-generative-image-platform-launch https://www.theverge.com/23900198/microsoft-kevin-scott-ai-art-bing-google-nvidia-decoder-interview https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/06/section-230-the-internet-law-politicians-love-to-hate-explained/ https://www.npr.org/2023/05/18/1176881182/supreme-court-sides-against-andy-warhol-foundation-in-copyright-infringement-cas https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/26/23808184/big-ai-really-wants-to-convince-us-that-theyre-cautious https://journal.everypixel.com/ai-image-statistics https://www.npr.org/2023/05/22/1177590231/fake-viral-images-of-an-explosion-at-the-pentagon-were-probably-created-by-ai Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23667741 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Amanda Rose Smith. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I co-hosted the Code Conference last week, and today’s episode is one of my favorite conversations from the show: Microsoft CTO and EVP of AI Kevin Scott. If you caught Kevin on Decoder a few months ago, you know that he and I love talking about technology together. I really appreciate that he thinks about the relationship between technology and culture as much as we do at The Verge, and it was great to add the energy from the live Code audience to that dynamic. Kevin and I talked about how things are going with Bing and Microsoft’s AI efforts, as well the company’s relationship with Nvidia and whether it's planning to develop its own AI chips. I also asked Kevin some pretty philosophical questions about AI: Why would you write a song or a book when AI is out there making custom content for other people? Well, it’s because Kevin thinks the AI is still “terrible” at it for now, as Kevin found out firsthand. But he also thinks that creating is just what people do, and AI will help more people become more creative. Links:  Microsoft CTO Kevin Scott thinks Sydney might make a comeback Hands-on with the new Bing: Microsoft’s step beyond ChatGPT Microsoft Bing hits 100 million active users in bid to grab share from Google How Microsoft is trying to lessen Its addiction to OpenAI as AI costs soar AMD CEO Lisa Su on the AI revolution and competing with Nvidia Microsoft's tiny Phi-1 language model shows how important data quality is for AI training Microsoft says listing the Ottawa Food Bank as a tourist destination wasn’t the result of ‘unsupervised AI’ Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23664239 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We spent a lot of time here on Decoder talking about electric vehicles and the future of cars and we’re usually talking about passenger vehicles or maybe cargo vans. But there’s another huge industry that can also reap the benefits of electrified transportation: agriculture.  I co-hosted the Code Conference this week where I had the opportunity to hangout onstage with Monarch Tractor CEO Praveen Penmetsa. Honestly, this was one of my favorite conversations of the entire event.  We are utterly reliant on farming as a species, and farming is utterly reliant on tractors. If we don’t have tractors, we don’t have food. But electrifying farms is hard, and Praveen explained how he and Monarch are trying to tackle that challenge. The ambition is to compete in an open way with closed platforms like John Deere, and Praveen said his goal for the Monarch platform is to be the Android of agriculture.  Links:  Electric robot tractors powered by Nvidia AI chips are here John Deere turned tractors into computers — what’s next? John Deere commits to letting farmers repair their own tractors (kind of) Monarch Tractors to be manufactured by Foxconn Foxconn begins rolling first Monarch electric tractors off assembly lines in Lordstown A sneak peek into Monarch Tractor's vision-based AI technology CNH Industrial, Monarch Tractor agree electrification technologies deal Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23659941 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we’re bringing you something a little different. The Code Conference was this week, and we had a great time talking live onstage with all of our guests. We’ll be sharing a lot of these conversations here in the coming days, and the first one we’re sharing is my chat with Dr. Lisa Su, the CEO of AMD.  Lisa and I spoke for half an hour, and we covered an incredible number of topics, especially about AI and the chip supply chain. The balance of supply and demand is overall in a pretty good place right now, Lisa told us, with the notable exception of these high-end GPUs powering all of the large AI models that everyone’s running. The hottest GPU in the game is Nvidia’s H100 chip. But AMD is working to compete with a new chip Lisa told us about called the MI300 that should be as fast as the H100. You’ll also hear Lisa talk about what companies are doing to increase manufacturing capacity.  Finally, Lisa answered questions from the amazing Code audience and talked a lot about how much AMD is using AI inside the company right now. It’s more than you think, although Lisa did say AI is not going to be designing chips all by itself anytime soon.  Okay, Dr. Lisa Su, CEO of AMD. Here we go.  Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23658688 Links:  AI startup Lamini bets future on AMD's Instinct GPUs Biden signs $280 billion CHIPS and Science Act Pat Gelsinger came back to turn Intel around — here’s how it’s going Huawei’s chip breakthrough poses new threat to Apple in China — and questions for Washington AMD expands AI product lineup with GPU-only Instinct MI300X Microsoft is reportedly helping AMD expand into AI chips US curbs AI chip exports from Nvidia and AMD to some Middle East countries Apple on the iPhone 15 Pro: 'It's Going to be the Best Game Console' Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we have a special episode for you. The Code Conference wrapped up this week, and the finale included a rare interview from my Code co-host and CNBC correspondent Julia Boorstin with X CEO Linda Yaccarino. To say the sit-down with Elon Musk’s No. 2 was confrontational would be an understatement.  Yaccarino appeared both unprepared to answer tough questions and very combative, especially when asked about comments from former trust and safety head Yoel Roth, who’s become an outspoken critic of the direction of the company since Elon took over. Roth spoke onstage at Code with Kara Swisher just an hour before, where he warned Yaccarino of the risks of the job and spoke about the extreme harassment he’s faced since leaving the company.  Yaccarino also gave us some updated stats on X user metrics and claimed the company would turn a profit in 2024. And of course, there were some very terse exchanges concerning whether Elon really plans to start charging a subscription fee to use the platform, if he seriously plans to sue the Anti-Defamation League, and the company’s recent cuts to its election integrity team. It’s a jaw-dropping interview, and you really have to listen to the whole thing. Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What motivates Mark Zuckerberg these days? It's a question Decoder guest host Alex Heath posed at the end of his interview last week, after he and Zuckerberg had spent an hour talking about Threads, Zuckerberg's vision for how generative AI will reshape Meta's apps, the Quest 3, and other news from the company's Connect conference, which kicked off today.  After spending the past five years as a wartime CEO, Zuckerberg is getting back to basics, and he clearly feels good about it. "I think we've done a lot of good things," he said. "But for the next wave of my life and for the company — but also outside of the company with what I'm doing at CZI [Chan Zuckerberg Initiative] and some of my personal projects — I define my life at this point more in terms of getting to work on awesome things with great people who I like working with." For Zuckerberg, "awesome things" means figuring out how to combine his company's AR, VR, and AI ambitions into new products.    This rare interview with the Meta CEO also includes details on his ongoing feud with Elon Musk and the quest to beat X/Twitter using Threads, his perspective on open source, and his vision for decentralized social media. Okay, Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg. Here we go. Links: Mark Zuckerberg is ready to fight Elon Musk in a cage match The three reasons Twitter didn’t sell to Facebook Threads app usage plummets despite initial promise as refuge from Twitter Threads isn’t for news and politics, says Instagram’s boss You can now verify your Threads profile on Mastodon In show of force, Silicon Valley titans pledge ‘getting this right’ With AI Meta is putting AI chatbots everywhere A conversation with Bing’s chatbot left me deeply unsettled Custom AI chatbots are quietly becoming the next big thing in fandom Meta’s Smart Glasses can take calls, play music, and livestream from your face Meta’s $499.99 Quest 3 headset is all about mixed reality and video games The Meta Quest 3 is sharper, more powerful, and still trying to make mixed reality happen Here’s what Mark Zuckerberg thinks about Apple’s Vision Pro Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

TechCrunch is one of the most important trade publications in the world of tech and startups, and its annual Disrupt conference is where dozens of major companies have launched… and some have failed. Matt has been the editor-in-chief of TechCrunch for essentially a decade now, and he and I have been both friends and competitors the entire time. We’ve competed for scoops, traded criticisms, and asked each other for advice in running our publications and managing our teams. So when Matt announced last month that he’s stepping down from his role at TechCrunch it felt important to have him come on for what you might call an exit interview — a look back at the past decade running a media outlet at the center of the tech ecosystem, with all of the chaos that’s entailed. Links:  Why We Sold TechCrunch To AOL, And Where We Go From Here | TechCrunch (2010) TechCrunch founder leaves AOL in a cloud of acrimony | CNN Money (2011) SB Nation Sacks AOL in Raid of Former Engadget Team for Competing New Tech Site, As AOL Zeroes in on New EiC | All Things D (2011) Why Every Company Needs A 'No Bozos' Policy | Forbes (2012) Artificial Intelligence Nonprofit OpenAI Launches With Backing From Elon Musk And Sam Altman | TechCrunch Just buy this Brother laser printer everyone has, it’s fine | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Nick Statt and Kate Cox. It was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Six: The Untold Story of America's First Women Astronauts, from longtime space reporter and Verge alum Loren Grush, is out today. It’s been 40 years since Sally Ride became the first American woman in space — but she was far from the last. In the early 1980s six women — Sally Ride, Judy Resnick, Kathy Sullivan, Anna Fisher, Rhea Seddon, and Shannon Lucid — would get a chance to fly a mission on one of the space shuttles… including, unfortunately, the ill-fated 1986 Challenger launch. The story of the six may be history, but it’s far from ancient, and there’s a lot going on here that ties directly to today. And of course, what’s an astronaut story without some high-flying hijinks in it? Listen to the end for Loren’s favorite. Links: Nichelle Nichols - NASA Recruitment Film (1977) Top Black Woman Is Ousted By NASA | The New York Times (1973) The Space Truck | The Washington Post (1981) NASA Artemis Five former SpaceX employees speak out about harassment at the company | The Verge Why did Blue Origin leave so many female space reporters out of its big reveal? | The Verge ‘We better watch out’: NASA boss sounds alarm on Chinese moon ambitions | Politico Elon Musk’s Shadow Rule | The New Yorker US Takes First Step Toward Regulating Commercial Human Spaceflight | Bloomberg Apply to attend the Code Conference Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okta is a big company, a Wall Street SaaS darling. For most of us, it's the thing we have to log into 50 times a week just to get any work done. But from Okta's point of view, Jameeka Green Aaron told us, it's an identity company. I spoke with Jameeka about what "identity" really means — in the digital space, in your real life, and at work — in 2023, and how an identity-based approach might be more or less secure than other approaches. I’m also gearing up to host Code in September (apply to attend here), and I’m thinking a lot about AI — very much a challenge for the future of security, even in a biometric-based era. Links: Apple IDs now support passkeys — if you’re on the iOS 17 or macOS Sonoma betas How to use a passkey to sign in to your Google account Windows 11 tests letting you sign in to websites with a fingerprint or face Apple, Google, and Microsoft will soon implement passwordless sign-in on all major platforms Microsoft called out for ‘blatantly negligent’ cybersecurity practices Okta Faces Long Road Back At Okta, CTO and CISO collaborate by design Apply to attend the Code Conference Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Perkins Miller is the CEO of Fandom, which both hosts thousands of wikis for everything from Disney to Grand Theft Auto and also runs several publications. Millions of people contribute millions of pieces of content to the platform, and Fandom surrounds all that content with ads and uses all that data to generate insights about how fans think about their favorite games, TV shows, and movies. While you might enjoy the content, a lot of people have complaints — especially about the sheer number of ads. We talked about what it means to host user-generated content in 2023; content moderation; and the general state of media, especially games media, which is pretty rocky right now. I’m also gearing up to host the Code Conference in September (apply to attend here), and I’ve been thinking a lot about AI, search, and the web — all very much big challenges on the horizon for Fandom. Links: Layoffs Hit GameSpot, Giant Bomb Just Months After Fandom Buys Them - Kotaku How Fandom's first-party data, FanDNA, is expanding to improve recommendations for advertisers and audiences - Digiday The AI feedback loop: Researchers warn of 'model collapse' as AI trains on AI-generated content - VentureBeat How Reddit crushed the biggest protest in its history - The Verge ‘Not for Machines to Harvest’: Data Revolts Break Out Against A.I. - The New York Times Someone keeps accusing fanfiction authors of writing their fic with AI, and nobody knows why - The Verge Massive Zelda Wiki Reclaims Independence Six Months Before Tears of the Kingdom - Kotaku Official Minecraft wiki editors so furious at Fandom's 'degraded' functionality and popups they're overwhelmingly voting to leave the site - PC Gamer Trials and Tribble-ations (episode) - Memory Alpha Apply to attend the Code Conference Transcript: Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters, and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We have a little surprise in the feed today: An episode of "Land of the Giants," which is all about Tesla this season. Former Verge transportation reporter Tamara Warren and former Jalopnik EIC Patrick George, who are both deeply sourced in the world of cars, host, and every episode has reporting and insight about Tesla that really hasn’t been shared before. It was ahead of the EV competition in basically every way for a long time. But the question Tamara and Patrick want to answer is: Is Tesla still winning by default? And where is the competition pulling ahead now that every carmaker is doing EVs? I joined them in this episode to discuss how modern cars, especially EVs, are being totally rethought as rolling computers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

AWS is quite a story. It started as an experiment almost 20 years ago with Amazon trying to sell its excess server capacity. And people really doubted it. Why was the online bookstore trying to sell cloud services? But now, AWS is the largest cloud services provider in the world, and it’s the most profitable segment of Amazon, generating more than $22 billion in sales last quarter alone. By some estimates, AWS powers roughly one-third of the entire global internet. And on the rare occasion an AWS cluster goes down, an unfathomable number of platforms, websites, and services feel it, and so do hundreds of millions of users. Adam Selipsky was there almost from the start: he joined in 2005 and became CEO of AWS in 2019 when former AWS CEO Andy Jassy took over for Jeff Bezos as CEO of Amazon. Even with big competitors such as Microsoft and Google gaining ground, he estimates that only 10 percent of his potential customers overall have made the jump to the cloud.  That leaves lots of room to grow, and I wanted to know where he thinks that growth can come from — and importantly, what will keep AWS competitive as the word “cloud” starts to mean everything and nothing. AWS is going big on AI, but it has some challenges. Adam and I got into all of it and into the weeds of what it means to be an AI provider at scale. It’s uncharted territory. Links: Big Three Dominate the Global Cloud Market Amazon’s server outage broke fast food apps like McDonald’s and Taco Bell Amazon names former exec Adam Selipsky as the new head of AWS AWS is ready to power AI agents that can handle busywork instead of just chatting Nvidia reveals H100 GPU for AI and teases ‘world’s fastest AI supercomputer’ Amazon plans to rework Alexa in the age of ChatGPT Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/23824200/ai-cloud-amazon-aws-adam-selipsky Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

ActivityPub is back in the news, thanks to Meta’s Threads launch and Elon’s continued immolation of Twitter — now X. That makes this the perfect time to dig into the Decoder archives to hear what Mastodon CEO Eugen Rochko thinks about the future of social media. Mastodon got a head start as the most well-known of the rising decentralized social networks, but that’s changing fast. Bluesky, on a competing protocol, is picking up steam and Threads promises to decentralize in the future, using the same ActivityPub protocol as Mastodon. That’s a big deal, with big potential. Verge Editor-at-Large David Pierce has been covering all this very closely. Before we jump into the interview with Rochko, I spoke with David to help update everyone on what ActivityPub even is, and what it could mean for the future of social media. Links: More than two million users have flocked to Mastodon since Elon Musk took over Twitter - The Verge  A beginner’s guide to Mastodon, the hot new open-source Twitter clone - The Verge Elon Musk - The Verge Benevolent dictator for life - Wikipedia Mastodon Social Eugen Rochko (@Gargron@mastodon.social)    Erase browser history: can AI reset the browser battle? - The Verge    Twitter alternatives for the Musk-averse - The Verge We tried to run a social media site and it was awful | Financial Times Denial-of-service attack - Wikipedia   Can ActivityPub save the internet? - The Verge  Five reasons Threads could still go the distance - The Verge What's next for Threads - The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23422689  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I’m talking to Anthony Casalena, the founder and CEO of Squarespace, the ubiquitous web hosting and design company. If you’re a podcast listener, you’ve heard a Squarespace ad.  I was excited to talk to Anthony because it really feels like we’re going through a reset moment on the internet, and I wanted to hear how he’s thinking about the web and what websites are even for in 2023. If you’re a Vergecast listener, you know I’ve been saying it feels a lot like 2011 out there. The big platforms like Facebook and TikTok are very focused on entertainment content. Twitter is going through… let’s call them changes. People are trying out new platforms like Instagram Threads and rethinking their relationships with old standbys like Reddit. And the introduction of AI means that search engines like Google, which was really the last great source of traffic for web pages, just doesn’t seem that reliable anymore as it begins to answer more questions directly. It’s uncertain, and exciting: a lot of things we took for granted just a couple years ago are up for grabs, and I think that might be a good thing. I love talking to people who’ve been building on the web for this long, and Anthony was no exception – we had fun with this one. Also I think this is the most we have ever talked about pressure washers on Decoder.  Links: Google sunsets Domains business and shovels it off to Squarespace - The Verge How Did Squarespace Know Podcasts Would Get This Big? - The New York Times Watch Squarespace CEO on Leveraging AI Into Website Building - Bloomberg Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23559195 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Jackie McDermott and Raghu Manavalan, and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters, and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Demis Hassabis, the CEO of Google DeepMind, the newly created division of Google responsible for AI efforts across the company. Google DeepMind is the result of an internal merger: Google acquired Demis’ DeepMind startup in 2014 and ran it as a separate company inside its parent company, Alphabet, while Google itself had an AI team called Google Brain.  Google has been showing off AI demos for years now, but with the explosion of ChatGPT and a renewed threat from Microsoft in search, Google and Alphabet CEO Sundar Pichai made the decision to bring DeepMind into Google itself earlier this year to create… Google DeepMind. What’s interesting is that Google Brain and DeepMind were not necessarily compatible or even focused on the same things: DeepMind was famous for applying AI to things like games and protein-folding simulations. The AI that beat world champions at Go, the ancient board game? That was DeepMind’s AlphaGo. Meanwhile, Google Brain was more focused on what’s come to be the familiar generative AI toolset: large language models for chatbots, and editing features in Google Photos. This was a culture clash and a big structure decision with the goal of being more competitive and faster to market with AI products. And the competition isn’t just OpenAI and Microsoft — you might have seen a memo from a Google engineer floating around the web recently claiming that Google has no competitive moat in AI because open-source models running on commodity hardware are rapidly evolving and catching up to the tools run by the giants. Demis confirmed that the memo was real but said it was part of Google’s debate culture, and he disagreed with it because he has other ideas about where Google’s competitive edge might come into play. We also talked about AI risk and artificial general intelligence. Demis is not shy that his goal is building an AGI, and we talked through what risks and regulations should be in place and on what timeline. Demis recently signed onto a 22-word statement about AI risk with OpenAI’s Sam Altman and others that simply reads, “Mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a global priority alongside other societal-scale risks such as pandemics and nuclear war.” That’s pretty chill, but is that the real risk right now? Or is it just a distraction from other more tangible problems like AI replacing labor in various creative industries? We also talked about the new kinds of labor AI is creating — armies of low-paid taskers classifying data in countries like Kenya and India in order to train AI systems. I wanted to know if Demis thought these jobs were here to stay or just a temporary side effect of the AI boom. This one really hits all the Decoder high points: there’s the big idea of AI, a lot of problems that come with it, an infinite array of complicated decisions to be made, and of course, a gigantic org chart decision in the middle of it all. Demis and I got pretty in the weeds, and I still don’t think we covered it all, so we’ll have to have him back soon. Links: Inside the AI Factory Inside Google’s AI culture clash - The Verge A leaked Google memo raises the alarm about open-source A.I. | Fortune The End of Search As You Know It Google’s Sundar Pichai talks Search, AI, and dancing with Microsoft - The Verge DeepMind reportedly lost a yearslong bid to win more independence from Google - The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23542786 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Jackie McDermott and Raghu Manavalan, and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters, and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Roblox has 66 million daily users, and people spent 14 billion collective hours on Roblox in just Q1 of 2023. But its CEO David Baszucki still wants to see the company grow.  One idea? Aging up the kinds of experiences that are allowed on its platform. Roblox recently introduced 17+ experiences. It wants to add new AI world-building capabilities. It’s even partnering with advertisers to roll out more immersive ad experiences. It’s been years since the number of adults gaming outnumbered kids – it seems like that’s driving a lot of growth for everyone, including Roblox. But these virtual world games seem like they all want to expand to be much more than just for kids, and much more than just for games. If you think about it, Roblox is already like a metaverse. Schools are using it for classes, companies are starting to advertise there, and people are just hanging out as avatars.  It’s already big, but the hope is to get much, much bigger. Alex Heath, deputy editor at The Verge, got the chance to chat with David up at Roblox headquarters in San Mateo, California. Their conversation covered a lot: why now’s the time for Roblox to grow up, the classic Decoder questions about structure and decision-making, and sadly, why infinite Robux isn’t a thing. Apologies to all the eight year olds out there. Okay, Roblox CEO David Baszucki. Here we go. Links: Roblox will allow exclusive experiences for people 17 and over Roblox, explained - The Verge Fortnite and Roblox are dueling for the future of user-built games - The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Raghu Manavalan and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you’ve spent more than two minutes somewhere on social media, you have probably come across Gary Vaynerchuk. For years I have wondered, is this just a character? Or is there a real Gary Vaynerchuk somewhere behind “GaryVee,” the social media entrepreneur and internet brand? Gary got his start working at his family’s liquor store, which he turned into an online wine shop. That’s where he started in social media, hosting a long-running YouTube show called “Wine Library TV.” He parlayed that into the gigantic GaryVee brand, which at its core, is about entrepreneurship. Gary co-founded the restaurant reservation platform Resy, which he sold to American Express in 2019, and Empathy Wines which he sold in 2020.  The Vaynerchuk empire remains vast, and it’s structured in complicated ways. There’s holding company VaynerX, which contains the ad agency VaynerMedia. There’s another company called Gallery Media which owns lifestyle websites. Gary even co-founded a sports agency – VaynerSports, with pro athletes like the NFL’s Kirk Cousins and Sauce Gardner on the roster, MLB shortstop Bo Bichette, and a variety of combat athletes. On top of all that, there’s a serious upheaval going on in digital media. The era of the social web is coming to a major moment of change, with new platforms like TikTok in the mix and old standbys like Twitter and Reddit going through complicated and controversial resets. New platforms bring new personalities and influencers, who are native to those platforms and maybe better at capturing the audience there. It’s one thing when you’re the first GaryVee. But staying GaryVee, in a time of change, and pitching brands and companies that his approach to social media will stay relevant, is an ongoing challenge. We got to chat with Gary at his Hudson Yards office in Manhattan and I will tell you, he did not hold back with his answers. Links: A trip to the GaryVee convention, where everyone is part of crypto’s 1 percent - The Verge How Gary Vaynerchuk Became an NFT Guru Gary Vaynerchuk expects NFTs to expand beyond digital collectibles long term | TechCrunch Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23530741 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Jackie McDermott and Raghu Manavalan. It was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The idea behind private equity or PE is simple: a private equity firm gathers up a bunch of cash, raises some investor cash and takes on a lot of debt to buy various companies, often taking them off the public stock market. Then, they usually install new management and embark on aggressive cost cutting and turnaround programs – mostly because they have to pay down all that debt pretty fast. Then, the company can be sold or taken public again for a hefty profit. But don’t worry—if it doesn’t work out, the PE firms are extracting fees at every step of the process so they get paid no matter what happens. In another world, these PE deals are just boring financing strategies or maybe the backbone of the occasional juicy corporate takeover story. In Decoder world, PE is everywhere. Since the modern PE industry kicked off in the 1980’s, it’s grown virtually unchecked, and as author Brendan Ballou explains, that’s had seriously negative consequences for all kinds of markets and consumers. Private equity affects everything from the modern nursing home industry, to the Solarwinds hack, one of the biggest hacks in U.S. history. Brendan Ballou is the author of Plunder: Private Equity’s Plan to Pillage America. Brendan is also a federal prosecutor and he served as Special Counsel for Private Equity in the antitrust division at the Department of Justice, so he’s uniquely suited to writing a book like this. Although he will be the first to tell you, the book does not reflect the views of the DOJ. This is a wonky episode, but it’s essential. Links: Plunder by Brendan Ballou  How Private Equity Buried Payless - The New York Times  Barnes & Noble is going back to its indie roots to compete with Amazon - Decoder, The Verge How arson led to a culture reboot at Traeger, with CEO Jeremy Andrus - Decoder, The Verge Opinion | Private Equity Is Gutting America — and Getting Away With It - The New York Times Ticketmaster, Taylor Swift, and antitrust – explained - The Verge What is chokepoint capitalism, with authors Cory Doctorow and Rebecca Giblin  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Jackie McDermott and Raghu Manavalan, and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters, and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jennifer Witz is the CEO of SiriusXM. You probably know the company as the satellite radio brand in virtually every new car, but it also owns Pandora, a huge podcast network that includes Team Coco and 99% Invisible, a content operation with huge stars like Howard Stern, and has broadcast deals with every major sports league. SiriusXM is effectively the dominant market leader for built-in premium audio in cars, in a time when competition is increasing. As the infotainment system in cars gets ever more complex and computer-like, the Sirius experience has to keep up. On top of that, the state of car software is a mess. GM announced it won’t support Apple CarPlay in new EVs. Other companies are using various versions of Android. Tesla has its own platform. And Sirius has to support all of it with applications that compete with Big Tech companies, all while continuing to integrate the satellite hardware into the cars themselves — on top of launching satellites on SpaceX rockets. Links: After layoffs, SiriusXM looks to star-studded podcasts What Is SiriusXM with 360L? A Breakdown of the New Audio Platform  SiriusXM CEO Calls Audio Ad Sales Market “Tough” Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23514318 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Jackie McDermott and Raghu Manavalan, and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters, and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Microsoft CTO Kevin Scott oversees the company's AI efforts, including its big partnership with OpenAI and ChatGPT. Kevin and I spoke ahead of his keynote talk at Microsoft Build, the company’s annual developer conference, where he showed off the company’s new AI assistant tools, which Microsoft calls Copilots. Microsoft is big into Copilots. GitHub Copilot is already helping millions of developers write code, and now, the company is adding Copilots to everything from Office to the Windows Terminal. Basically, if there’s a text box, Microsoft thinks AI can help you fill it out, and Microsoft has a long history of assistance like this. You might remember Clippy from the ’90s. Well, AI Super Clippy is here. Microsoft is building these Copilots in collaboration with OpenAI, and Kevin manages that partnership. I wanted to ask Kevin why Microsoft decided to partner with a startup instead of building the AI tech internally, where the two companies disagree, how they resolve any differences, and what Microsoft is choosing to build for itself instead of relying on OpenAI. Kevin controls the entire GPU budget at Microsoft. I wanted to know how he decides to spend it.  We also talked about what happened when Bing tried to get New York Times columnist Kevin Roose to leave his wife. Like I said, this episode has a little bit of everything. Okay. Kevin Scott, CTO and executive vice president of AI at Microsoft. Here we go. Links: Microsoft Build - The Verge  Kevin Scott on Vergecast in 2020  GitHub Copilot gets a new ChatGPT-like assistant to help developers write and fix code - The Verge  Hackers made Iran's nuclear computers blast AC/DC - The Verge  Microsoft resurrects Clippy again after brutally killing him off in Microsoft Teams - The Verge Google’s Sundar Pichai talks Search, AI, and dancing with Microsoft - The Verge Congress hates Big Tech — but it still seems optimistic about AI - The Verge Hollywood writers to strike over low wages caused by streaming boom. - The Verge  The 70 percent solution — CNN Sal Khan: How AI could save (not destroy) education | TED Talk Why a Conversation With Bing’s Chatbot Left Me Deeply Unsettled - The New York Times Responsible AI principles from Microsoft Microsoft has been secretly testing its Bing chatbot ‘Sydney’ for years - The Verge         Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23497429 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Jackie McDermott and Raghu Manavalan, and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr. Audio Director is Andrew Marino, our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters, and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today – we’ve got a treat for you. We’re going to run a special episode from our friends over at Vox. Peter Kafka and his team just wrapped up a special 3-part series on AI.  AI has captured the imagination of Silicon Valley. In fact, in the last few months, I’ve talked to both Google CEO Sundar Pichai and Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella about AI after they announced new AI-powered search products. And in the middle of the frenzy, it's hard to tell what's really going on. What exactly is AI, how does tech plan to re-design the world with it, and why are a bunch of smart people very, very worried? In this episode, they’re diving into the gold rush around AI. Figuring out what’s just hype, meeting the VCs that are hungry to invest, and finding out if there will be room for startups, or if the giants will just own it all. If you’re a Decoder listener, this is right up your alley. Thanks to Peter Kafka and Vox. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to Decoder. I’m Nilay Patel, editor in chief of The Verge, and Decoder is my show about big ideas, and other problems. We have a special episode today – I’m talking to Sundar Pichai, the CEO of Google and Alphabet. We hung out the day after Google IO, the company’s big developer conference, where Sundar introduced new generative AI features in virtually all of the company’s products. It’s an important moment for Google, which invented a lot of the core technology behind the current AI moment – the company is quick to point out the T in chatGPT stands for Transformer, the large language model tech first which was invented at Google. But openAI and others have been first to market with generative AI products — and openAI in particular has partnered with Microsoft on a new version of Bing that feels like the first real competitor to Google search in a long time.  So I wanted to know what Sundar thinks of this moment – and in particular, what he thinks of the future of search, which is the heart of Google’s business. Web search right now can be pretty hit or miss, right? There’s a lot of weird content farms out there, and AI-based search might be able to just answer questions in a more natural way. But that means remaking the web, and really, remaking Google. Sundar is already going down that path – he just reorganized Google and Alphabet’s AI teams, moving a company called DeepMind inside Google and merging it with the Google Brain AI group to form a new unit called Google DeepMind. I can’t resist an org chart question, so we talked about why he made that call – and how he made it. We also talked about Sundar’s vision for Google – where he wants it to go, and what’s driving his ambition to take the company into the future. This is a jam-packed episode – we talked about a lot, and I didn’t even get to Google’s AI metadata plans, or what’s going on with RCS and Android. Maybe next time.  Links: The nine biggest announcements from Google I/O 2023  What happens when Google Search doesn't have the answers?  Microsoft thinks AI can beat Google at search — CEO Satya Nadella explains why  Let’s chat about RCS - The Verge  Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23484772  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Brian Chesky, the co-founder and CEO of Airbnb, was previously on the show in 2021. Back then, Airbnb was betting big on long-term stays for remote work amid the pandemic, and Chesky had just restructured the company to a more functional organization, getting rid of the divisions it had before. Now, the pandemic is ending, Airbnb has itself adopted a hybrid policy, Chesky’s back in the office several days a week, and they’re two years into that new structure. So that’s pure Decoder bait. I wanted to ask Chesky how that restructure is going. Has it really made the company more agile and cohesive like he hoped? Has the bet on working from anywhere paid off? Links: Brian Chesky's tweet announcing the summer 2023 launch Microsoft thinks AI can beat Google at search — CEO Satya Nadella explains why  Samsung caught faking zoom photos of the Moon Why the future of work is the future of travel, with Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ben Smith is the former and founding editor-in-chief of Buzzfeed News, the founder and editor-in-chief of Semafor, and the author of a new book called Traffic: Genius, Rivalry, and Delusion in the Billion-Dollar Race to Go Viral, which is about the rise and fall of the social platform age in media, through the lens of Gawker Media and Buzzfeed and, in particular, their founders, Nick Denton and Jonah Peretti. I say the fall of the social platform age pretty literally: just before we spoke, Buzzfeed actually shut down Buzzfeed News, saying it just wasn’t making enough money, Facebook and the rest are all in on vertical video, and the chaos at Twitter means a lot of baseline media industry assumptions are now up for grabs. Ben and I talked about a lot – where do journalists build their brands now? Where does traffic even come from anymore? What’s next? Of course, we talked about Semafor as well. Ben and his co-founder, Justin Smith, raised $25 million and launched a news website, newsletters, and events covering the US and sub-Saharan Africa, with plans to expand into other regions. I wanted to know what lessons from Buzzfeed Ben brought into Semafor and, honestly, how he’s thinking about building an audience instead of just trying to get traffic.  This is a good one. The book’s great, too. Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23470662 Links: Traffic by Ben Smith What Colors Are This Dress?  TikTok - The Verge Is Substack Notes a ‘Twitter clone’? We asked CEO Chris Best - The Verge MyPillow CEO’s free speech social network will ban posts that take the Lord’s name in vain - The Verge Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News Cambridge Analytica: understanding Facebook’s data privacy scandal - The Verge 28 Signs You Were Raised By Persian Parents In America Here's The Powerful Letter The Stanford Victim Read To Her Attacker More Than 180 Women Have Reported Sexual Assaults At Massage Envy Macedonia’s Pro-Trump Fake News Industry Had American Links, And Is Under Investigation For Possible Russia Ties Watching Silicon Valley Bank melt down from the front row, with Brex CEO Henrique Dubugras - Decoder, The Verge  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott with help from Hadley Robinson and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve got a special episode with Alex Heath, deputy editor at The Verge and a familiar host for Decoder listeners, and David Marcus, the CEO of Lightspark. That’s a company that just launched a service to make fast transactions using Bitcoin on something called the Lightning Network. David was previously at PayPal, and then he led Meta’s big payments effort that went nowhere, but he’s got a lot to say about where crypto and payments are right now. Links: Launching the Lightspark Platform Facebook tells Congress how it thinks Libra should be regulated - The Verge The leader of Facebook’s stalled cryptocurrency project is leaving the company - The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23460507  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Travis Katz is the CEO of BrightDrop, a subsidiary of GM that makes electrified delivery vans with an eye toward rebooting all of how delivery works. BrightDrop has pretty big partnerships already, with names like FedEx, Verizon, and Walmart committed to its Zevo 600 van, and it’s got big ideas for making the steps from the van to your door more efficient as well with something called e-carts. Katz says there’s a huge demand for delivery especially as online shopping keeps getting bigger, but the transportation network is at capacity, and you can’t just keep throwing more trucks and drivers on the road, or making city streets wider. His plan is to redesign the entire system to make it more efficient. So I wanted to know how he’s attacking that problem and making it manageable, all while getting buy-in from customers that won’t really accept delays or increased costs. BrightDrop is a wholly owned subsidiary of General Motors, so I also wanted to know how that works, what he gets from being part of the big company, and which parts slow him down. Lots of classic Decoder stuff in this one. Links: GM’s electric delivery van just set a world record — with me riding shotgun - The Verge  Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23451134  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott with help from Hadley Robinson and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It is fair to say that Substack has had a dramatic week and a half or so, and I talked to their CEO Chris Best about it. The company announced a new feature called Substack Notes, which looks quite a bit like Twitter — Substack authors can post short bits of text to share links and kick off discussions, and people can reply to them, like the posts, the whole thing. Like I said, Twitter. Twitter, under the direction of Elon Musk, did not like the prospect of this competition, and for several days last week, Twitter was taking aggressive actions against Substack. At one point you couldn’t even like tweets with Substack links in them. At another point, clicking on a Substack link resulted in a warning message about the platform being unsafe. And finally, Twitter redirected all searches for the word Substack to “newsletter.” Musk claimed Substack was somehow downloading the Twitter database to bootstrap Substack Notes, which, well, I’m still not sure what that means, but I at least asked Chris what he thought that meant and whether he was doing it.  It’s tempting to think of Substack like a rival platform to Twitter, but until the arrival of Substack Notes, it was much more like enterprise software. With Substack Notes, the company is in direct competition with social networks like Twitter. It’s shipping a consumer product that’s designed to be used by Substack readers. It is no longer just a software vendor; it’s a consumer product company. And that carries with it another set of content moderation concerns, that, after talking to Chris, I’m just not sure Substack is ready for. Like, I really don’t know. You’ll just have to listen to his answers — or really, non-answers — for yourself. This is a wild one. I’m still processing it. Let me know what you think. Okay, Chris Best, CEO of Substack. Here we go. Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23445916 Links: Can Substack CEO Chris Best build a new model for journalism? - The Verge Now live for all: Substack Notes Substack Content Guidelines Welcome to the new Verge (re Quick Posts) Can Mastodon seize the moment from Twitter? - The Verge Twitter’s newsletter tool is shutting down in less than a month - The Verge Elon Musk on Twitter: "@BretWeinstein 1. Substack links were never blocked..." Casey Newton - Substack Notes Platformer on Substack    Can we regulate social media without breaking the First Amendment? - The Verge How to buy a social network, with Tumblr CEO Matt Mullenweg - The Verge Newsletter platform Substack raises $65 mln in Andreessen Horowitz-led funding round | Reuters Substack Drops Fund-Raising Efforts as Market Sours - The New York Times Substack Wefunder Substack Notes, Twitter Blocks Substack, Substack Versus Writers How much money do we think Substack lost last year? - The Verge Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Brex CEO Henrique Dubugras found himself playing an important role during the Silicon Valley Bank collapse. Brex is what you might call a neobank — not a traditional bank but rather a financial services provider that helps companies manage how they spend money, corporate cards, travel expenses and the rest. In the middle of the SVB collapse, Brex was more than just a spending management company. It was also a safe place to park money. Brex saw billions of deposits in a very short period of time, giving Dubugras a bird's-eye view of what was happening — and what was happening was not great for the banking system, especially in Silicon Valley. (Our own Liz Lopatto has been covering this in depth.) I wanted to hear Dubugras' perspective on SVB both as a fintech CEO and a founder himself, whether he thought the crisis was rational or just a panic caused by group texts and easy-to-use mobile banking interfaces, what he thinks will happen to the startup ecosystem next, and how much of an opportunity all this was for Brex. Dubugras is a young CEO. He just turned 27. He really surprised me with his depth here, and he will probably surprise some of you as well. Okay, Henrique Dubugras, CEO of Brex. Here we go. Links: The tech industry moved fast and broke its most prestigious bank  Liz Lopatto - The Verge  A fintech CEO is trying to raise more than $1 billion to fund bridge loans for startups impacted by the Silicon Valley Bank collapse Robinhood Users Say The Trading App Won’t Cash In Their Profitable Bets Against Silicon Valley Bank  What Is A Neobank? – Forbes Advisor   Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23433504  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chris Cocks is the CEO of Hasbro, a company that just turned 100 this year. Hasbro is a huge company, making everything from Transformers to Lincoln Logs to My Little Pony and Monopoly. It also makes Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons & Dragons, which are massive and growing businesses. Chris was the head of that division, called Wizards of the Coast, before he became the CEO of Hasbro overall last year. Since then, he’s started the process of restructuring the company, which is pure Decoder bait.  He’s also dealt with some crises: He’s fended off an activist investor that wanted him to spin Wizards of the Coast out into a new company. The Magic community was upset that too many card sets were being released, including rare collector cards that could suddenly be bought by anybody who had enough money. Then, an attempt to change the open gaming license for Dungeons & Dragons led to a fan backlash, and Hasbro walked the entire plan back. We talked about these challenges, how he handled them, and what it means for toys and games to have such passionate fandoms. It really changes how Hasbro operates. He’s also selling off part of eOne, the company’s TV and film production company — we get into why and how he decided to do that. Chris is a lifelong gamer — you’ll hear him talk about that history several times. And he’s also keenly aware that toys and games have become an adults’ market as much as a kids’ one, and that changes the company’s business strategy. This is really a remarkable conversation: toys are a big, complex business. Links: Chris Cocks Is Hasbro’s Gamer in Chief Chris Cocks Statement at Hasbro Investor Day Hasbro strongly refutes claims it is ‘destroying’ Magic: The Gathering Dungeons & Dragons finally addresses its new Open Gaming License Hasbro CEO on D&D fiasco: ‘We misfired’ on the OGL but have ‘since course corrected’ Magic: The Gathering Becomes a Billion-Dollar Brand for Toymaker Hasbro Hasbro Puts Newly Acquired TV Brand Entertainment One (eOne) Back Up For Sale Transcript: Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Hadley Robinson and it was edited by Amanda Rose Smith. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I’m talking to Mastodon CEO Eugen Rochko. Mastodon is the open-source, decentralized competitor to Twitter, and it’s where a lot of Twitter users have gone in this, our post-Elon era. The idea is that you don’t join a single platform that one company controls, you join a server, and that server can show you content from users across the entire network. If you decide you don’t like the people who run your server, or you think they’re moderating content too strictly, you can leave, and take your followers and social graph with you. Think about it like email and you’ll get it – if you don’t like Gmail, you can switch to something else, but you don’t have to quit email entirely as a concept. Now if you are like me, you hear the words open-source and decentralized, and then the word CEO, and you think – wait, why does the decentralized open standard have a CEO? The whole point is that no single person or company is in charge, right? Well, welcome to the wild world of open-source governance. It’s a riot, my friends – you’re going to hear Eugen and I say the phrase benevolent dictator for life in dead seriousness, because that’s how a lot of these projects are run. Of course, we also talk about money, and structure – Mastodon doesn’t make a lot of money, and Eugen is figuring out how to build a structure that scale past just a handful of people — but keep that in mind, actually. This tiny mostly volunteer labor of love might very well be the future of social networking, and, if you believe the hype about ActivityPub, might have some part in the future of the web. That’s pretty exciting, even if things are seem a little messy in the moment. Links: More than two million users have flocked to Mastodon since Elon Musk took over Twitter  A beginner’s guide to Mastodon, the hot new open-source Twitter clone Elon Musk Benevolent dictator for life Mastodon Social Eugen Rochko (@Gargron@mastodon.social) XKCD    Erase browser history: can AI reset the browser battle? Twitter alternatives for the Musk-averse We tried to run a social media site and it was awful Denial-of-service attack Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23422689  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Meredith Kopit Levien is the CEO of The New York Times, which is perhaps the most famous journalism organization in the world, and certainly one of America’s most complicated companies. The Times is 172 years old, and has only recently become a force on the internet. It’s hard to remember, but back in 2014 and ‘15, people thought the Times was doomed — that it would be replaced by BuzzFeed and Vice and Vox. Instead, the company has undergone a radical and sometimes painful public transformation, and emerged as something closer to Netflix or Spotify – a subscription business with a huge investment in product and engineering.  Meredith has led a lot of that change, and in particular, she’s led the charge in turning a Times subscription into much more than paying for news – NYT Cooking and Games are hit apps, and of course she bought Wordle last year in a bit of a coup. We talked about that structure, how Meredith intends to appeal to a broader audience with all those products when the country is basically divided in half politically and one half doesn’t care for the Times at all, and about platforms and growth. And like all media organizations, the Times has a complex relationship with Google, so we talked about that, too. Links: Our Strategy | The New York Times Company NYT CEO outlines plans to reach 15 million subscribers by 2027 Why the New York Times is buying the Athletic Wordle has been bought by The New York Times, will ‘initially’ remain free for everyone to play  The Economics at the Heart of the Times Union Standoff  'Unstoppable innovator': The meteoric rise of Meredith Kopit Levien, the next New York Times CEO Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23416720 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Hadley Robinson and it was edited by Amanda Rose Smith The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This special episode dives deep on Taylor Swift, Ticketmaster, and how a handful of policy changes in the 1980s led to one firm so thoroughly dominating the live events business in the United States that Congress held a hearing in 2023, because Taylor Swift fans were so upset about antitrust law. That sentence is wild. We’re going to unpack all of this with the help of some experts. Here we go. Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23409098 Credits: Thanks so much to everyone who talked to us and shared their valuable insights for this episode including Dean Budnik, Florian Ederer, Russ Tannen, and Sandeep Vaheesan. And special thanks to Makena Kelly and Jake Kastrenakes.  This episode was written and reported by Jackie McDermott and Owen Grove. It was produced by Jackie McDermott, Owen Grove, and Creighton DeSimone with help from Jasmine Lewis. It was edited by Callie Wright.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this installment of our Centennial Series on companies that are over 100 years old, we are talking to Barnes & Noble CEO James Daunt. The last few decades have thrown some hurdles in Barnes & Noble’s way, however. Far from being the monster that inspired the plot of the movie You’ve Got Mail, it’s had to face down a new Goliath called Amazon and the general decline of big-box retail stores. After years of closures and declining revenues, Barnes & Noble was bought out by activist investors in 2019, who installed Daunt as CEO, and he’s managed to turn things around by doing two main things.  First, he has decentralized operations of the stores, letting each store act like a local bookshop and giving his booksellers more control over what titles they sell and display. He immediately ended a system that allowed publishers to pay for special placement in bookstores, which he said corrupted the entire system in service of short-term profits. Second, he’s using Barnes & Noble’s scale to build a purchasing and distribution pipeline that serves as the rest of the book industry’s competitor to Amazon.  We get into all of it — the culture wars, J.K. Rowling, book ban bills in states across the country, and how Barnes & Noble went from being the bully on the block to competing with Amazon. Links Hedge Fund Buys Barnes & Noble Can Britain’s Top Bookseller Save Barnes & Noble? - The New York Times How Barnes & Noble transformed its brand from corporate bully to lovable neighborhood bookstore Barnes & Noble to expand, marking a new chapter for private equity #BookTok: Is TikTok changing the publishing industry?  How book lovers on TikTok are changing the publishing industry Barnes & Noble History Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23406145 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Hadley Robinson and it was edited by Jackson Bierfeldt.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Gustav Söderström has worked at Spotify for a long time; his first big project was leading the launch of its mobile app back in 2009. That makes him the perfect company leader to talk to about Spotify’s recent redesign, which introduces a visual, TikTok-like feed for discovering new content on the app’s homepage. As his boss CEO Daniel Ek put it last week, it’s “the biggest change Spotify has undergone since we introduced mobile.” With the title of co-president and chief product and technology officer, Söderström is responsible for not only how Spotify looks and feels but also all the AI work happening behind the scenes to power its increasingly important recommendations. According to Söderström, it turns out that improving those recommendations is actually at the heart of the big redesign. “I think companies that don’t have an efficient user interface for a machine learning world are not going to be able to leverage machine learning,” he told Alex Heath on the newest episode of Decoder. Links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napster Spotify is laying off 6 percent of its global workforce, CEO announces Spotify’s new design turns your music and podcasts into a TikTok feed Alex Heath's Tweet Functional versus Unit Organizations Two-Pizza Teams Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23402123 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Intro: Steve Bandrowczak, the CEO of Xerox, an iconic company that got started all the way back in 1906 as a manufacturer of photo paper and is, of course, best known for pioneering the copy machine. Here in 2023, Xerox has moved well beyond paper. It now works with companies large and small to provide IT services: it optimizes workflows, manages data, automates parts of businesses, and yes, still fixes the printers. Steve insists there’s still a lot in the world to print, and selling and servicing printers continues to be where Xerox begins its relationships with most customers. And fixing printers is getting high tech: Steve is excited about his new AR app that walks you through getting the copy machine working again so you don’t have to wait for a technician to come fix it.  We also talked about the future of Xerox’s legendary Palo Alto Research Center, or PARC, whether Xerox wants more consolidation, and we even spitball some ideas about how to get Gen Z excited about printers.  Links: John Visentin, Xerox C.E.O., Dies at 59 Xerox Ousts CEO In Deal With Icahn Carl Icahn Makes Case for Xerox-HP Union Xerox abandons $35 billion hostile bid for HP Apple Lisa: the ‘OK’ Computer About PARC, a Xerox Company Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23394156 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Hadley Robinson and it was edited by Jackson Bierfeldt.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Pali Bhat joined Reddit from Google about a year ago — he’s actually Reddit’s first-ever chief product officer, which is pretty surprising considering that Reddit is a series of product experiences: the reading experience, the writing experience, and importantly, the moderation experience. One thing we always say on Decoder is that the real product of any social network is content moderation, and Reddit is maybe the best example of that: every subreddit is shaped by volunteer moderators who use the tools Reddit builds for them. So Pali has a big job bringing all these products together and making them better, all while trying to grow Reddit as a platform. This was a really deep conversation, and it touched on a lot of big Decoder themes. I think you’re going to like it. Okay, Pali Bhat, the chief product officer of Reddit. Here we go. Links: New features aimed at making Reddit easier to use: an update on our product priorities focussed on simplification Reddit’s new features include a TikTok-style video feed Reddit is bringing back r/Place, its April Fools’ Day art experiment How to buy a social network, with Tumblr CEO Matt Mullenweg Microsoft thinks AI can beat Google at search — CEO Satya Nadella explains why AI-generated fiction is flooding literary magazines — but not fooling anyone Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23390325 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We taped this episode live at Hot Pod Summit. That’s our conference for the podcast industry. We have a whole newsletter for podcasters. It’s called Hot Pod, written by our very own Ariel Shapiro. Hot Pod Summit is where we bring that community of creators, trendsetters and decision-makers together to explore the latest developments in podcasting, audiobooks, and more. It was a packed house and a great time. We ended the day by recording our first-ever live Decoder with Conal Byrne, CEO of iHeartMedia’s digital audio group. Conal oversees podcasting at a giant radio company, and his group accounts for a quarter of iHeart’s revenue, which was $1 billion last quarter alone. His team makes some of the biggest podcasts around, with huge talent like Will Ferrell, Shonda Rhimes, and Charlamagne tha God, who you’ll hear Conal talk about quite a lot. Conal and iHeart Digital earned that success by doing some unconventional things. Whereas other big podcasting players like Spotify and Apple have tried to boost revenue through subscriptions or platform exclusivity, Conal shunned those approaches and said he’s going for big audience reach, made possible in part by his ability to run ads and even shows on iHeart’s huge network of traditional radio stations. But that maverick approach has included some controversial steps as well. Last year, Verge alumni and Bloomberg reporter Ashley Carman reported that iHeart worked with a firm called Jun Group to essentially buy podcast downloads through video games. To many in the industry, that seemed pretty disingenuous. So of course I asked Conal about that and lots more. He was a great guest, super game to answer the questions, especially in front of a live audience. Links: iHeartMedia Buys Stuff Media for $55 Million - WSJ  Podcasters Are Buying Millions of Listeners Through Mobile-Game Ads  Cost Per Thousand (CPM) Definition and Its Role in Marketing Spotify reportedly paid $200 million for Joe Rogan’s podcast - The Verge Chris Dixon thinks web3 is the future of the internet — is it? - Decoder, The Verge Decoder with Nilay Patel (@decoderpod) Official | TikTok   Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23381445 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to Decoder. I’m Nilay Patel, editor in chief of The Verge, and Decoder is my show about big ideas, and other problems.  Today, I'm talking to Mitchell Baker, the chairwoman and CEO of Mozilla, the organization behind the Firefox browser, the Thunderbird email client, the Pocket newsreader, and a bunch of other interesting internet tools. Now as you all know, Decoder is secretly a podcast about org charts – maybe not so secretly, and Mozilla’s structure is really interesting. Mozilla itself is a nonprofit foundation, but it contains within it something called the Mozilla Corporation, which actually makes Firefox and the rest. Mitchell is the chairwoman of the foundation, and the CEO of the corporation. And the Mozilla Corporation, which they charmingly call MoCo, can make a profit - or it can least be taxed, which is an important distinction you’ll hear Mitchell talk about. I bring this up because Mozilla has been around since 1994 in a variety of structures and business models – it started as a company called Netscape, and Mitchell was one of the first employees in the legal department. Netscape’s product was Netscape Navigator, the first commercial web browser, which of course changed the consumer internet and scared Microsoft so much it did a bunch of anticompetitive things that led to the famous antitrust case. In the meantime, Netscape got sold to AOL, and along the way Mitchell led the somewhat renegade Mozilla Project inside the company which eventually lead to Mozilla the non-profit foundation that eventually launched Firefox. It’s a lot! But now Mitchell is trying to live up to Mozilla’s nonprofit ideals of protecting the open internet while still trying to compete and cooperate with tech giants like Apple and Google. And these are complicated relationships: Google still accounts for a huge percentage of Mozilla’s revenue – it pays hundreds of millions of dollars to be the default search engine in Firefox. And Apple restricts what browser engines can run on the iPhone – Firefox Focus on the iPhone is still running Apple’s webkit engine, something that regulators, particularly in Europe want to change.   On top of all that, some big foundational pieces of the web are changing: Microsoft is aggressively rolling out its chatGPT-powered Bing search engine in an effort to displace Google and get people to switch to the Edge browser, and Twitter’s implosion means that Mitchell sees Mastodon as one of Mozilla’s next big opportunities.  So how does Mozilla get through this period of change while staying true to itself? And will anyone actually switch browsers again? Turns out – it might be easier to get people to switch on phones, than on desktops. That’s Mozilla’s belief, anyway. Links: Netscape - Wikipedia The State of Mozilla: 2021 — 2022 Annual Report The future of computers is only $4 away, with Raspberry Pi CEO Eben Upton Firefox drops Google as default search engine, signs five-year deal with Yahoo Microsoft thinks AI can beat Google at search — CEO Satya Nadella explains why Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI A beginner’s guide to Mastodon, the hot new open-source Twitter clone Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23362385 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m coming to you from Microsoft’s campus in Redmond, where just a few hours ago, Microsoft announced that the next version of the Bing search engine would be powered by OpenAI, the company that makes ChatGPT. There’s also a new version of the Edge web browser with OpenAI chat tech in a window that can help you browse and understand web pages.  The in-depth presentation showed how OpenAI running in Bing and Edge could radically increase your productivity. They demo’d it making a travel itinerary, posting to LinkedIn, and rewriting code to work in a different programming language. After the presentation, I was able to get some time with Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella. Nadella has been very bullish on AI. He’s previously talked about AI as the next major computing platform. I wanted to talk about this next step in AI, the partnership with OpenAI, and why he thought now was the best time to go after Google search. This is a short interview, but it’s a good one. Okay, Satya Nadella, CEO of Microsoft. Here we go. Watch this interview as a video Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI All the news from Microsoft’s February AI event Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23354035 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today's episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Jackie McDermott, Vjeran Pavic and Becca Farsace and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

HBO started as an experiment. It was a way to get people to switch from getting TV over broadcast antennas to cable by offering events you’d otherwise need tickets to see: boxing, plays, movies. That’s where the name Home Box Office comes from. But it grew from there in surprising ways: HBO was a major innovator in satellite distribution, in working with cable operators around the country, and of course in programming. The company’s taste and style has influenced and shaped culture for a generation now. And importantly, HBO did it without any real data: the cable companies owned all the subscribers, so HBO made decisions through instinct and experience. The amazing thing about HBO is that it has stayed true to itself through an absolutely tumultuous set of ownership changes and strategy shifts. If you’re a Decoder listener you know about the chaos of AT&T and HBO Max and the sale to Discovery to create Warner Brothers Discovery, but it’s so much twistier than that. I talked through all of those twists with Felix Gillette and John Koblin, authors of the terrific book It’s Not TV: The Spectacular Rise, Revolution, and Future of HBO. Felix and John also peeled back the curtain on your favorite HBO shows from Sex and the City to Game of Thrones. Before we get into the episode, I have to do our usual set of disclosures: I’m a Netflix executive producer. We made a Netflix show called The Future Of. You should watch it. I’m hopelessly biased in favor of the show we made. Also, Vox Media has a minority investment from Comcast. They don’t like me very much. And I worked at AOL Time Warner. I quit to start The Verge.  Ok that’s that. Let’s get into the interview—it’s a good one. Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23352141 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A few weeks ago, President Biden was in the Netherlands, where he asked the Dutch government to restrict export from a company called ASML to China. ASML is the only company in the world that makes a specific machine needed to make the most advanced chips. Apple couldn’t make iPhone chips without this one machine from the Netherlands’ biggest company. ASML doesn’t just shape the Dutch economy—it shapes the entire world economy. How did that happen? Chris Miller, Tufts professor and author of Chip War: The Fight For The World’s Most Critical Technology walked me through a lot of this, along with some deep dives into geopolitics and the absolutely fascinating chip manufacturing process. This one has everything: foreign policy, high powered lasers, hotshot executives, monopolies, the fundamental limits of physics, and, of course, Texas. Here we go. Links: US issues sweeping restrictions on chip sales to China Japan and the Netherlands join US with tough chip controls on China Pat Gelsinger came back to turn Intel around — here’s how it’s going Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23342471 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I have this theory that music is usually about five years ahead of the rest of media in terms of its relationship to tech—whether that’s new formats based on new tech, like vinyl to CDs; new business models like streaming; or simply being disrupted by new kinds of artists who use new forms of promotion like TikTok in unexpected ways. I’ve always thought that if you can wrap your head around what’s happening to the music industry, you can pretty much see the future of TV or movies or the news or whatever it is, because the music industry just moves that fast. I was talking about this with my friend Charlie Harding, the co-host of Switched on Pop, and he said that he thinks the upcoming Taylor Swift Eras Tour is itself the end of an era in music — that the age of cheap streaming services is coming to an inevitable conclusion, and that something has to change in order for industry to sustain itself in the future.  So, in this episode, Charlie and I walk through a brief history of the music business—which, despite its ever-changing business models, is permanently trying to find something to sell you for $20 whether that’s the music itself, all-access streaming, merch, and even NFTs—using Taylor Swift as a case study. We map her big moves against the business of music over time to try to see if this really is the end of an era. And maybe more importantly, to try and figure out if the music industry can sustain and support artists who are not Taylor Swift, because streaming, all by itself, definitely cannot. Links: Switched on Pop Charlie’s first appearance on Decoder: Good 4 who? How music copyright has gone too far - The Verge  Why Amazon VP Steve Boom just made the entire music catalog free with Prime - The Verge  Spotify launching in the US at 8AM tomorrow, open to all pre-registered users - The Verge Metallica sued Napster 15 years ago today - The Verge Taylor Swift calls Apple Music free trial 'shocking, disappointing' in open letter - The Verge Taylor Swift versus Ticketmaster: the latest on the tour that may break up a giant - The Verge The DOJ has reportedly opened an antitrust investigation into Ticketmaster's owner      How fandom built the internet as we know it, with Kaitlyn Tiffany - The Verge Steve Aoki on the blockchain, the metaverse, and the business of music - The Verge Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23322720 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Hadley Robinson, Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. Our Sr. Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Last year I spoke with Cory Doctorow and Rebecca Giblin about their new book, Chokepoint Capitalism. It’s a book about artists and technology and platforms, and how different kinds of distribution and creations tools create chokepoints for different companies to capture value that might otherwise go to artists and creators.. In other words, it’s a lot of Decoder stuff. As we were prepping this episode, the Decoder team realized it previews a lot of things we’re going to talk about in 2023: antitrust law. Ticketmaster. Spotify and the future of the music industry. Amazon and the book industry. And, of course, being a creator trying to make a living on all these platforms. This episode is longer than normal, but it was a really great conversation and I'm glad we are sharing it with you. Links: What is Mixer, Ninja’s new exclusive streaming home? Ninja returns to Twitch This was Sony Music's contract with Spotify Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23311918 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tomer Cohen is the chief product officer at LinkedIn, and actually, I talked to Tomer twice. Here’s a little secret about Decoder: we do the interviews, and then often, the guest and I just keep chatting for a while. So after my first interview with Tomer, we were hanging out, talking about the perpetual battles between engineers, product managers, and designers. And he said something that completely jumped out at me: “We might be wrong, but we’re not fucking confused.”  This isn’t a totally new line — it’s been floating around for a while, you can Google it — but you know I love an f-bomb, and honestly, it’s one of the most simple and clarifying things a manager can say, especially when managing across large teams. So I asked Tomer to come back and really dig in on that idea. On top of that, we’ve been talking a lot about running social networks lately, and LinkedIn is a fascinating social network because it doesn’t have the same engagement-based success metrics as other social platforms like Twitter and Instagram. Tomer doesn’t care about time spent on LinkedIn; the platform is designed to be successful when people get new jobs. That means his ideas for features and user experiences are just really different. Links: Employment Situation Summary (Jobs Report) December Workforce Report 2022 (LinkedIn) Vision to values flowchart ChatGPT proves AI is finally mainstream — and things are only going to get weirder LinkedIn buys California-based SaaS learning platform How big companies kill ideas — and how to fight back, with Tony Fadell RAPID decision making Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23281360  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We have to talk about Twitter, right? Elon Musk bought it. He’s making all these changes, and he’s realizing that content moderation decisions are quite complicated, especially when the stakes are high. But talking about Twitter in a vacuum seems wrong. There are lots of other social networks and community-based products, and they all have basically the same problems: some technical (you have to run the service), some political (you have to comply with various laws and platform regulations around the world), and some social (you have to get millions of users to post for free while making sure what they post is good stuff and not bad stuff). So, we’re doing something a little different this week. First, I’m talking to Matt Mullenweg, who is the CEO of Automattic, which owns WordPress, the blog hosting platform, and Tumblr, the social network, which he purchased from Verizon in 2019. Then, Verge deputy editor Alex Heath and I are going to break down a bunch of what Matt told me and apply it to Twitter to see what we can learn. Okay, Matt Mullenweg, CEO of Tumblr, followed by Alex Heath. Here we go. Links: How WordPress and Tumblr are keeping the internet weird GPL - General Public License Verizon is selling Tumblr to WordPress’ owner Kanye West suspended from Twitter after posting a swastika ‘Martin Scorsese’s lost film’ Goncharov (1973), explained Yahoo acquires Tumblr in $1.1 billion cash deal, promises 'not to screw it up' Verizon is selling Tumblr to WordPress’ owner Turnaround Definition Welcome to Tumblr. Now Go Away. Work With Us / Twitter – Automattic Tumblr will sell you two useless blue check marks for $8 Elon Musk is laying off even more Twitter workers Welcome to hell, Elon Why “Go Nuts, Show Nuts” Doesn't Work in 2022 How America turned against the First Amendment  About – SHOSHANA ZUBOFF A Framework for Moderation First Amendment - Freedom of Religion, Speech, Press, Assembly, and Petition | Constitution Center America’s Favorite Flimsy Pretext for Limiting Free Speech  Brandenburg v. Ohio Elon Musk says Tim Cook told him Apple ‘never considered’ removing Twitter - The Verge The Twitter Files - Matt Taibbi Elon Musk’s promised Twitter exposé on the Hunter Biden story is a flop that doxxed multiple people Twitter Blue is back, letting you buy a blue checkmark again Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23270126 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we need to talk about Bob. Two Bobs, actually: Bob Iger, the former and now current CEO of Disney, and Bob Chapek, the man Iger handpicked as his replacement, who flamed out and was fired by the board, and then, on November 20th, was replaced by Bob Iger. Bobs, man. The heart of this whole thing is total Decoder bait. It’s a story about how to structure a company like Disney. Then you add in the complexity of the shift to streaming, the future of TV and movies generally, and the gigantic reputation of a character like Bob Iger, who many people think could plausibly run for president. There’s just a lot going on here. Whenever I need to talk Disney, media, and Bobs, I call one person: Julia Alexander, director of strategy at Parrot Analytics and a former reporter at The Verge. Julia pays a lot of attention to the streaming giants, she’s sourced inside all the companies battling for our attention, and she has a lot to say about the Bobs. Links: Bob Iger steps back in as Disney CEO, replacing Bob Chapek  Reed Hastings on Twitter Disney+ launch lineup: Every movie and TV show available to stream on day one - The Verge Bob Iger steps down as Disney CEO, replaced by Bob Chapek - The Verge Disney streaming chief Kevin Mayer resigns to become TikTok CEO - The Verge Disney Plus surpasses 100 million subscribers - The Verge Meta announces huge job cuts affecting 11,000 employees - The Verge Netflix's $6.99 per month ad tier is now live Stranger Things - The Verge Disney’s major reorganization is good news for anyone who loves Disney Plus - The Verge Functional Structure: Advantages and Disadvantages | Indeed.com Pros and Cons of Implementing a Divisional Structure | Indeed.com Disney Proposal to Restructure, on McKinsey’s Advice, Triggered Uproar From Creative Executives - WSJ Disney Shows the Limits of Streaming - WSJ Disney Erases Almost All Its Pandemic Gains After Earnings Miss ‘Strange World’: Beautiful to look at, but not much below the surface - The Washington Post Watch The Future Of | Netflix Official Site Kevin Mayer quits as TikTok CEO due to ongoing political turmoil - The Verge Kevin Mayer Says His Firm Is In Deal Mode After Buying Reese Witherspoon's Hello Sunshine WarnerMedia CEO Jason Kilar announces exit as Discovery deal nears close - The Verge  Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23259187 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bose is one of the most recognizable audio brands in the world: it was famous for the Wave radio in the 80s, it invented noise cancellation, you can see its logo on NFL sidelines every Sunday, and of course there are the popular consumer products like the QuietComfort headphones that reviewers like Chris Welch here at The Verge rate as some of the best in the game. Bose is in tons of cars as well: audio systems in GM, Honda, Hyundai, Porsche, and more are developed and tuned by Bose. Bose was founded in 1964 by Dr. Amar Bose, who donated a majority of the shares of the company to MIT, where he was a professor. That means to this day, Bose is a private company with no pressure to go public. However, Bose still has to compete against big tech in talent, products, and compatibility. So today I’m talking to Bose CEO Lila Snyder about Bose’s dependence on platform vendors like Apple and Google, how she thinks about standards like Bluetooth, and where she thinks she can compete and win against AirPods and other products that get preferential treatment on phones. Links: Bose QuietComfort Earbuds II review: noise cancellation domination How Amar Bose used research to build better speakers List of Bose shelf stereos Hearing Aids | FDA Digital signal processor Functional organization Bose names its first female CEO as wait continues for new products Amar Bose ’51 makes stock donation to MIT Meta announces huge job cuts affecting 11,000 employees Amazon mass layoffs will reportedly ax 10,000 people this week Elon Musk demands Twitter employees commit to ‘extremely hardcore’ culture or leave The iPhone 7 has no headphone jack Bluetooth Special Interest Group Qualcomm Partners with Meta and Bose Bose gets into hearing aid business with new FDA-cleared SoundControl hearing aids Over-the-counter hearing aids could blur the line with headphones New Bose-Lexie Hearing Aid to Enter the Over-the-Counter Market Lexie Partners with Bose to Offer Lexie B1 Powered by Bose Hearing Aids Bose Frames Tempo review: the specs to beat Bose discontinues its niche Sport Open Earbuds BMW starts selling heated seat subscriptions for $18 a month Seven CEOs and one secretary of transportation on the future of cars Why Amazon VP Steve Boom just made the entire music catalog free with Prime                  Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23246668  Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chris Licht faces an uphill battle at CNN. He got the CEO gig in the midst of a prickly merger between Warner Bros. and Discovery and right after the shocking exit of beloved long-time boss, Jeff Zucker. In his first six months, he’s shut down CNN+, ousted Brian Stelter, and shuffled anchors around, including Don Lemon and Jake Tapper. This week, the network chief held an internal town hall meeting where he faced a staff of thousands and discussed upcoming layoffs. Shortly afterwards, he sat down with Kara — who grilled him, of course. She asks Licht whether he has any real actual power or if he’s simply executing orders from Warner Bros. Discovery CEO David Zaslav — who is in search of cuts, as the company stares down the barrel at $50 billion in debt — and billionaire board member, John Malone, who has said he’d like to see more “centrist” programming from CNN. They discuss Licht’s vision for the newsroom, his plan to build trust with journalists who fear losing jobs, and how CNN will cover Donald Trump during the 2024 election. Before the interview, Kara and Nayeema discuss the challenges facing journalism in an era of disinformation. Stay tuned for Kara’s closing rant on “citizen journalism” and Elon’s latest broadside against the press. You can find Kara and Nayeema on Twitter @karaswisher and @nayeema. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Phil Spencer, CEO of Microsoft Gaming, is in charge of Xbox and all the game studios that Microsoft has acquired over the years. Phil came to talk to us hours before the European Commission announced an in-depth investigation into Microsoft’s proposed 68.7 billion dollar acquisition of Activision Blizzard, which makes the enormous Call of Duty series, as well as Candy Crush on phones.  So I had the chance to ask Phil: Will he make the concessions that regulators want in order to close this deal? And is the deal really just about Call of Duty, or something else? Is Microsoft committed to keep Call of Duty available on Playstation? Phil’s a candid guy. He’s been on Decoder before. I always enjoy talking to him, and this was a fun one. Links: Microsoft’s Phil Spencer on the new Xbox launch - The Verge Microsoft to acquire Activision Blizzard for $68.7 billion - The Verge Why Microsoft bought Bethesda for $7.5 billion Microsoft announces big, multistudio push to create more Xbox exclusives Bethesda’s Starfield and Redfall have been delayed to 2023 Tech antitrust pioneer Lina Khan will officially lead the FTC Sony says Microsoft’s Call of Duty offer was ‘inadequate on many levels’ Microsoft: Xbox game streaming console is ‘years away' This is Microsoft’s Xbox game streaming device Google is shutting down Stadia in January 2023 - The Verge Razer’s Edge is one sharp-looking cloud gaming Android handheld Logitech G Cloud Gaming Handheld review: terminally online Steam Deck review: it’s not ready Steam Deck, one month later Tech Leaders Discuss the Metaverse’s Future | WSJ Tech Live 2022 Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella on the business of Windows Microsoft partners with Meta to bring Teams, Office, Windows, and Xbox to VR EU opens ‘in-depth investigation’ into Microsoft’s Activision Blizzard acquisition Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23223230 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dylan Field is the co-founder and CEO of Figma, which makes a very popular design tool that allows designers and their collaborators to all work together right in a web browser. You know how multiple people can edit together in Google Docs? Figma is that for design work. We just redesigned The Verge; we used Figma extensively throughout that process. So for years, people have been waiting on the inevitable Figma vs. Adobe standoff since Figma was such a clear upstart competitor to Photoshop and Illustrator and the rest. Well, buckle up because in September, Adobe announced that it was buying Figma for $20 billion. Figma is going to remain independent inside Adobe, but you know, it’s a little weird. So I wanted to talk to Dylan about the deal, why he’s doing it, how he made the decision to sell, and what things he can do as part of Adobe that he couldn’t do as an independent company. Dylan’s also a pretty expansive thinker, so after we talked about his company getting the “fuck you” money from Adobe, we talked about making VR Figma for the metaverse and AGI, which is artificial general intelligence, or the kind of AI that can fully think for itself. This episode takes a turn. I think you’re going to like it. Okay, Dylan Field, CEO of Figma. Here we go. Links: Welcome to the new Verge Adobe to acquire Figma in a deal worth $20 billion A New Collaboration with Adobe Designers worry Adobe won't let Figma flourish WebGL - Wikipedia How big companies kill ideas — and how to fight back, with Tony Fadell - Decoder Dylan Field on Twitter: "Our goal is to be Figma not Adobe" College Dropout Turns Thiel Fellowship Into a $2 Billion Figma Fortune Generative adversarial network (GAN) - Wikipedia       GPT-3 - Wikipedia Is VR the next frontier in fitness? - Decoder Artificial general intelligence - Wikipedia   Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23209862 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Jackson Bierfeldt. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is currently short a commissioner, and the Biden Administration and Senate Democrats just can't seem to get that seat filled despite having nominated an amazingly qualified person. Her name is Gigi Sohn. The inability to get Gigi confirmed at the FCC has left the commission deadlocked with two Democrats and two Republicans. That means the commission in charge of regulating all telecom in the United States, including how you get your internet service, is unable to get much done. The Biden administration can't accomplish some of its biggest policy priorities like rural broadband and restoring net neutrality. President Biden first nominated Gigi Sohn to the FCC over a year ago, but the full Senate vote to confirm her just hasn't happened. We’ve been digging into the story for a few months now, trying to figure out what's going on here, and we found a simple but really frustrating answer… Links: Gigi Sohn Author Profile - The Verge  Comcast trying to “torpedo” Biden FCC pick Gigi Sohn, advocacy group says The Slime Machine Targeting Dozens of Biden Nominees Attempted acquisition of Tribune Media by Sinclair Broadcast Group The Vergecast: Net neutrality was repealed a year ago. Gigi Sohn explains what’s happened since  Confirmation Hearing for FCC and Commerce Department Nominees Biden signs $280 billion CHIPS and Science Act  Biden Signs Bill to Help Veterans Exposed to Toxic Burn Pits With the Inflation Reduction Act, the US brings climate goals within reach  Federal Communications Commission v. Pacifica Foundation  Federal Communications Commission v. Pacifica Foundation  A Media Censor for the FCC?  Hyperpartisan Gigi Sohn Doesn’t Belong at the FCC Gigi Sohn and the Police Gigi Sohn Facebook Tweet Tech antitrust pioneer Lina Khan will officially lead the FTC Confirmation Hearing For FCC Nominee FCC Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel on staying connected during a pandemic Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23201559 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was written and reported by Jackie McDermott. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. Additional mixing by Andrew Marino. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters and our Executive Director is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I love covering the music industry, but over the past 10 years I’ve found that it’s one of the most challenging things to make accessible to a wide audience. See, my theory is that the music industry is like five years ahead of everything else when it comes to being disrupted by tech: whatever happens to the music industry because of technology eventually happens to everything else. Today I'm talking to Steve Boom, the VP of Amazon Music. Amazon just announced that they are upgrading the music service that Prime members get as part of their subscription. Starting today, one of the benefits for Amazon Prime members is that you now get access to the entire Amazon Music catalog, about 100 million songs, to play in shuffle mode. That service used to only contain 2 million songs. And they are removing ads from a large selection of podcasts including the entire Wondery catalog. I wanted to ask Steve: what’s it like to negotiate with the record labels for a service like this? What can streaming services do to make artists more money? And where do podcasts fit into the overall strategy? Amazon and Spotify both spend a lot of money buying podcast studios. Is it paying off? Links: Amazon buys Wondery, setting itself up to compete against Spotify for podcast domination Apple’s Anti-Competitive Behavior Hurts Everyone—Including Audiobook Listeners, Publishers, and Authors Why Rdio died Why it makes sense for Amazon to buy Twitch Amazon Launches Audio App Amp Combining Music and Live Conversation  The days of cheap music streaming may be numbered Why did Jack Dorsey’s Square buy Tidal, Jay-Z’s failed music service? Amazon Music rolls out a lossless streaming tier that Spotify and Apple can’t match How Amazon runs Alexa, with Dave Limp Apple’s new podcast charts show Amazon at the top Spotify gets serious about podcasts with two acquisitions  Vox Media acquires Cafe Studios, Preet Bharara’s podcast-first company Vox Media Acquires Criminal Productions, Leading Narrative Podcast Studio Time to Play Fair - Spotify Apple’s New App Store Rules a Big Boon for Netflix, Hulu & Co. MusiCares Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23197384 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Steve Cagle is the CEO of Clearwater Compliance, which is a cybersecurity firm focused on the healthcare industry. Basically, they lock down hospital computer systems, which contain a huge amount of personal data, and are so mission critical that ransomware attackers know that hospitals are more likely to just pay up. If the cryptocurrency explosion has accomplished anything, it’s making ransomware attacks easier and more lucrative for bad guys. Steve told me there’s so much personal information in a hospital system that a single patient’s record can sell for a huge premium over somthing like a credit card number. And we talked about amount of regulation needed to secure that data and that some insurance providers require hospitals to have a minimum level of security, or they won't be covered. It's a fascinating one. Links: Cyber Security Week 2022 Penetration test Cyberattack delays patient care at major US hospital chain Average Healthcare Data Breach Costs Surpass $10M, IBM Finds Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23175031 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. It was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott. Research by Liz Lian and it was edited by Jackson Bierfeldt. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I'm talking to Prashanth Chandrasekar the CEO of Stack Overflow – a highly specialized kind of social network, with a really unique business model. If you don't know Stack Overflow is a major part of the modern software development landscape: it’s where developers come together, ask questions, and get answers about how to build software, including actual code they can use in their own projects. It’s basically a huge question and answer forum. More than 100 million people visit Stack Overflow every single month. The company also sells Stack Overflow as an internal forum tool that big companies can use for their own teams: Microsoft, Google, Logitech—you name it, they’re using Stack Overflow to coordinate conversations between their engineers. The platform has a long reputation of elitism; Prashanth himself is a developer and he told me his own first experience on Stack Overflow was a negative one. In fact, he took over as CEO about three years ago, after a pretty serious moderation controversy that saw several longtime Stack Overflow moderators quit. I wanted to talk to Prashanth about how it works, how the company makes money, and how to grow such a specialized user base while still being welcoming to new people. Links: Software-as-a-Service (SaaS) Stack Overflow Sold to Tech Giant Prosus for $1.8 Billion Stack Overflow helps millions of developers do their jobs every single day. Its new CEO says the next stage of its growth is selling to businesses. Big Tech's hiring freeze unlocks rich talent pool for U.S. startups Stack Overflow raises $85M in Series E funding to further accelerate SaaS business Chris Dixon thinks web3 is the future of the internet — is it? Stack Overflow Has a New Code of Conduct: You Must 'Be Nice' Code of Conduct - Stack Overflow Eight great sites that offer online classes The other side of Stack Overflow content moderation Everything you need to know about Section 230 Transcript:  https://www.theverge.com/e/23185361 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Meredith Whittaker is the president of Signal, the popular messaging app that offers encrypted communication. You might recognize Meredith’s name from 2018 when she was an AI researcher at Google and one of the organizers of the Google walkout. Now she’s at Signal, which is a little different than the usual tech company: it’s operated by a nonprofit foundation and prides itself on collecting as little data as possible. But messaging apps are a complicated business. Governments around the world really dislike encrypted messaging and often push companies to put in backdoors for surveillance and law enforcement because criminals use encrypted messaging for all sorts of deeply evil things. But there’s no half step to breaking encryption, so companies like Signal often find themselves in the difficult position of refusing to help governments. You might recall that Apple has often refused to help the government break into iPhones, for example. I wanted to know how that tradeoff plays out at Signal’s much smaller and more idealistic scale. This is a good one, with lots of Decoder themes in the mix. We have to start doing checklists or something. Okay, Meredith Whittaker, president of Signal. Here we go. Links: The battle inside Signal Yes, even Signal is doing stories now Here’s why Apple’s new child safety features are so controversial Signal is ‘starting to phase out SMS support’ from its Android app A very brief history of every Google messaging app RCS: What it is and why you might want it Let’s chat about RCS WhatsApp is now entirely end-to-end encrypted Moxie Marlinspike has stepped down as CEO of Signal Meredith Whittaker Tweet Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23173757 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Jackson Bierfeldt. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg joined The Verge’s deputy editor Alex Heath for an in-depth conversation about the company’s new high-end, mixed reality headset, the $1,499 Quest Pro, and why he isn’t backing down from building the metaverse. Zuckerberg and Heath also talked about the future of social media, why he enjoys “being doubted,” and the growing concerns about TikTok’s Chinese ownership. Links: The Meta Quest Pro is a cutting-edge headset looking for an audience Xbox Cloud Gaming is coming to the Meta Quest ​​Apple’s mixed reality headset will reportedly come with an M2 chip We finally got our hands and eyes on the PlayStation VR2 Apple’s app tracking policy reportedly cost social media platforms nearly $10 billion  Mark Zuckerberg took on China in a speech defending free expression Why BeReal is breaking out Elon Musk is buying Twitter, probably? Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23161228 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Vjeran Pavic, and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I'm talking to Pat Gelsinger, the CEO of Intel. I’ve been excited to have this conversation for a very long time – ever since Pat took over as CEO a little over a year and a half ago. After all. Intel is a very important company with a huge series of challenges in front of it. It’s still the largest chip manufacturer by revenue, and makes more chips than any other company in the United States. In fact there are basically only three major chip manufacturers: Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, or TSMC, which is in Taiwan, Samsung, based in South Korea. And Intel, here in the United States. The Intel Pat took over was struggling, and was losing ground to in a variety of markets. But in the past year and a half, Pat’s restructured the company, turned over almost all of its leadership positions, opened a new line of business that would compete with TSMC and make chips for other companies including Intel’s competitors, and generally tried to reset Intel’s famous engineering culture around engineering. Glossary: IFS - Intel Foundry Service. Raptor Lake - codename for intel's Gen 13 processors that were just the day before we had our conversation. Sapphire Rapids - the codename for Intel's 4th generation Xeon server processors. 20A and 18A - 20A is a rebranding of what was intel's 5nm process scheduled to debut in 2024 and 18A is a rebranding of Intels 5nm+ node due out in 2025. Packaging - integrated circuit packaging is the last step of semiconductor fabrication. It's where a block of semiconductor material is put into a case. The case, is known as a "package" and that is what allows you put a circuit on a board. Wafers - When a processor is made they make processors you make hundreds of them at once on a giant wafer.  EUV - is Extreme Ultraviolet Lithography. It's the most advanced way to make chips.  ASML - Is the company that makes the machines that lets you make chips. They are the only company that makes EUV machines. RibbonFET - A new transistor technology that Intel developed. ISV - Independent Software Vendors. PDK - Process Design Kit is a set of files that have data and algorithms that explain the manufacturing parameters for a given silicon process. EDA tools - stands for Electronic Design Automation tools. Basically software tools that are used to design and validate the semiconductor manufacturing process. Robert Noyce and Gordon Moore - the founders of Intel. Andy Grove - employee #3 who went on to become one of their most successful CEOs. Links: Moore's Law Intel is replacing its CEO in February Intel has to be better than ‘lifestyle company’ Apple at making CPUs, says new CEO Apple is switching Macs to its own processors starting later this year Apple MacBook Air with M1 review: new chip, no problem  What we know about Intel’s $20 billion bet on Ohio Intel is building a new €17 billion semiconductor manufacturing hub in Germany Intel delays ceremony for Ohio factory over lack of government funding Intel needs 7,000 workers to build its $20 billion chip plant in Ohio Biden signs $280 billion CHIPS and Science Act President Joe Biden speaks after groundbreaking for Intel’s $20 billion semiconductor plant Intel’s top Arc A770 GPU is priced at $329, available October 12th Intel’s 13th Gen processors arrive October 20th with $589 flagship Core i9-13900K Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23149693 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One of the more interesting quirks of the modern tech world is that there’s a really important company at the center of it all that doesn’t make anything. But its work is in your phone, in your TV, your car and maybe even your laptop. I’m talking about ARM, a chip design company that’s been through quite a lot these past few years, and I'm talking to Arm CEO Rene Haas. Arm designs the instruction sets for modern chips: Qualcomm’s chips are Arm chips. Apple’s chips are Arm chips. Samsung’s chips are Arm chips. It’s the heart of modern computing. Arm licenses the instruction set to those companies, who then go off and actually make chips with all sorts of customizations. Basically every smartphone runs an Arm processor, Apple’s Macs now run arm processors, and everything from cars to coffee machines are showing up with more and more arm processors in them. We want to know what you think about Decoder. Take our listener survey! Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23137412 Links: The Vergecast: The HDMI Holiday Spec-tacular on Apple Podcasts  Biden signs $280 billion CHIPS and Science Act Intel needs 7,000 workers to build its $20 billion chip plant in Ohio - The Verge What comes after the smartphone, with Qualcomm CEO Cristiano Amon - The Verge Why the global chip shortage is making it so hard to buy a PS5 Nvidia’s huge Arm deal has just been scrapped What is a SoC? What is an ECU? Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ryan Petersen, is the CEO of Flexport, ac ompany that builds software that integrates all the different shipping vendor systems you might run into as you try to get a product from a factory in China to a consumer in Idaho: rail, sea, truck. We’ve talked about the supply chain and inventory management on Decoder with a lot of our guests — the chip shortage seems to affect every company, and sorting out how to get products made and delivered on time is a pretty universal problem. But we haven’t really talked about how products get from one place to another around the world. So I wanted to talk to Ryan, figure out what Flexport’s role in all this is, what his bigger supply chain solutions would be, and why he’s leaving his job as CEO to be executive chairman and handing the reins to Dave Clark, who used to work at Amazon. Links: Dave Clark to Join Flexport As Our New CEO Flexport Wants to Be Uber of the Oceans At Google, Eric Schmidt Wrote the Book on Adult Supervision The real story behind a tech founder’s ‘tweetstorm that saves Christmas’ Ryan's twitter thread Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23126062 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking to Mark Bergen, a reporter at Bloomberg and the author of a new book about YouTube called. Like, Comment, Subscribe: Inside YouTube’s Chaotic Rise to World Domination. YouTube has always been fascinating to me because it’s such a black box: everyone feels like they know how the platform works, but very few people have a real understanding of the internal politics and tradeoffs that actually drive YouTube’s decision. Mark’s book is one of the best of its kind I’ve read: not only does he take you inside the company, but he connects the decisions made inside YouTube to the creators who use the platform and the effects it has on them. This was a fun one – keep in mind that for as little as we might know about YouTube, we might know even less about TikTok, which is driving all sorts of platforms, even YouTube, into competing with it. Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23113078  Links: YouTube Partner Program Hank Green on Decoder iJustine Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode was originally published on May 3rd, 2022. Tony Fadell was instrumental in the development of the iPod and iPhone at Apple and then co-founded Nest Labs, which kicked off the consumer smart home market with its smart thermostat in 2011. Tony sold Nest to Google for $3.2 billion in 2014 and eventually left Google. He now runs an investment company called Future Shape.  Links: Inside the Nest: iPod creator Tony Fadell wants to reinvent the thermostat General Magic - Trailer Inside Facebook’s metaverse for work Silicon Graphics Google is reorganizing and Sundar Pichai will become new CEO Fire drill: can Tony Fadell and Nest build a better smoke detector? Google purchases Nest for $3.2 billion Twitter accepts buyout, giving Elon Musk total control of the company Nest is rejoining Google to better compete with Amazon and Apple Apple Music Event 2005 - Motorola Rokr E1 / iTunes Phone Activision Blizzard hit with another sexual harassment lawsuit Nest buying video-monitoring startup Dropcam for $555 million What matters about Matter, the new smart home standard ZIGBEE ON MARS! Directory: Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple Andy Grove, former CEO of Intel Pat Gelsinger, current CEO of Intel Sundar Pichai, current CEO of Alphabet Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla, SpaceX, and The Boring Company Jeff Williams, COO of Apple Matt Rogers, Nest co-founder Jeff Robbin, VP of consumer applications at Apple Steve Hoteling, former CEO gesture recognition company Finger Works Jon Rubinstein, senior VP of the iPod division at Apple Steve Sakomen, hardware engineer and executive at Apple  Avie Tavanian, chief software technology officer at Apple Scott Forstall, senior VP of iOS software, Apple Jony Ive, chief design officer, Apple Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22817673 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve got a special episode of Decoder today – an interview between Verge deputy editor Alex Heath and Meta’s Tom Alison, the head of Facebook. Alex is the co-host of the newest season of Vox Media’s podcast Land of the Giants. This season is about Facebook and Meta. The season finale comes out tomorrow. Alex has been reporting for Land of the Giants for many months, and along the way he interviewed Tom. Facebook has a lot of challenges, but it seems like the biggest problem is TikTok: Facebook's problem is that it spent years – you spent years – building out a social graph that, it turns out, is less interesting than just being shown content that the company thinks you might like. Alison has been at Facebook for more than a decade and previously ran engineering for the News Feed, so he knows more than almost anyone about the history of feeds and where they are going. Links: Land of the Giants Facebook is changing its algorithm to take on TikTok, leaked memo reveals Facebook is revamping its home feed to feel more like TikTok Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23092319 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One thing that strikes me, in all these episodes of Decoder, is how little any of us really pay attention to the advertising industry, and how deeply connected it is to almost other every modern business. After all you can start a company and invent a great product, but you still need to market it: you need to tell people about it, and eventually convince them to buy it. And so you take out an add on a platform and, well, the platform companies we all depend on mostly run on ads. Google’s entire consumer business is ads. Meta’s entire business is ads. And when we talk to creators, they’re even more tied to ads: their distribution platforms like TikTok and YouTube are all ad-supported, and a huge portion of their revenue is ads.  This week I’m talking to Neal Arthur, the CEO of Weiden and Kennedy, one of the few independent major ad agencies in the world, and maybe the coolest one? It’s got a rep. Weiden is the agency that came up with Just Do It for Nike and Bud Light Legends for Bud Light. They’ve done campaigns for Coke, Miller, Microsoft, ESPN – you name it. Coming off our conversation last week with Katie Welch about building a brand from the ground up using influencer marketing and potentially never hiring an ad agency, I wanted to get a view from the other side: how does a big ad agency work? Where does their money come from? So many of the big agencies are merging into what are called holding companies – why is Wieden still independent? Links: Bud Light puts creative account up for review after years with Wieden+Kennedy Mover Over Millennials -- Here Comes Gen Z How Selena Gomez's Rare Beauty Goes Viral, With CMO Katie Welch Mad Men (TV Series 2007-2015) Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23081723 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott. It was edited by Callie Wright. And researched by Liz Lian. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Katie Welch is the Chief Marketing Officer of Rare Beauty — the beauty products company founded by superstar musician and actress Selena Gomez. Rare Beauty sells its products online and in Sephora retail stores, and importantly, Katie does almost no traditional marketing: Rare Beauty is a true internet brand, that depends on social media strategy, influencer marketing, and community to drive sales. Specifically, the enormous community around Selena Gomez, who, again, is an international superstar with a fandom of her own. This kind of marketing is essentially new. Famous people making their own products and companies and using their online reach to launch and grow those businesses is a combination of art and commerce that is 10 – 15 years old at most, Rihanna’s Fenty Beauty is only five years old, but it’s redefined the industry and helped make her a billionaire. Some of the first big successes came from the Kardashian-Jenners including Kylie Cosmetics, founded in 2015, as well as Kim Kardashian’s Skims, founded in 2019. I’ve been really curious about how these businesses work, how they reach their audiences and customers, how CMOs like Katie measure success, whether being the marketing executive for an super online celebrity-driven business feels different than being a traditional marketing person, and whether the ever-present risk of weird things happening online make her plan differently. Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23071490 Links: Why BeReal is breaking out Why Hank Green can’t quit YouTube for TikTok Apple’s app tracking transparency feature isn’t an instant privacy button Apple’s app tracking policy reportedly cost social media platforms nearly $10 billion Updating The Verge’s background policy Marketing Funnels Katie's TikTok Instagram walks back TikTok-style changes — Adam Mosseri explains why Makeup company Glossier to sell its products at Sephora as new CEO pushes to expand reach Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In 2019, the Trump administration brokered a deal allowing TMobile to buy Sprint as long as it helped Dish Network stand up a new 5G network to keep the number of national wireless carriers at 4 and preserve competition in the mobile market. Now, in 2022, Dish’s network is slowly getting off the ground. And it’s built on a new kind of wireless technology called Open Radio Access Network, or O-RAN. Dish’s network is only the third O-RAN network in the entire world, and if O-RAN works, it will radically change how the entire wireless industry operates. I have wanted to know more about O-RAN for a long time. So today, I’m talking to Tareq Amin, CEO of Rakuten Mobile. Rakuten Mobile is a new wireless carrier in Japan, it just launched in 2020 – it’s also the world’s first Open RAN network, and Tareq basically pushed this whole concept into existence. I really wanted to know if ORAN is going to work, and how Tareq managed to make it happen in such a traditional industry. So we got into it – like, really into it. Links: Rakuten Rakuten Edge Cloud "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" Rakuten Group to Acquire Mobile Industry Innovator Altiostar Gadgets 360 Massive MIMO Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23061797 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I’m talking to Hank Green. Hank doesn’t need much introduction. In fact, he invited himself on Decoder to talk about YouTube's partner program, which shares ad revenue between YouTube and the people making videos. The split is 55/45 in favor of creators. But other platforms don't have this. There is no revenue share on Instagram. There is no revenue share on Twitter. There’s no revenue on Twitter at all, really. And importantly there is no revenue share on TikTok: instead there’s something called a creator fund, which shares fixed pool of money, about a billion dollars, among all the creators on the platform. That means as more and more creators join TikTok, everyone gets paid. You might understand this concept as: basic division. This episode is long, and it’s weedsy. Honestly, it’s pretty deep in our feelings about participating in the internet culture economy, and the relationship between huge platform companies and the communities that build on them. But it’s a good one, and it’s not really something any of us talk about enough. Links: Vlogbrothers Decoder interview with YouTube Chief Product Officer Neal Mohan Viacom Has Officially Acquired VidCon, A Global Online Video Convention Series Patreon Acquires Subbable, Aligning the YouTube Stars The Verge EMAILS t-shirt Crash Course SciShow Eons The medium is the message The Kardashians hate the new Instagram Hank Green: So… TikTok Sucks Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast, “TikTok vs YouTube with Hank Green” Decoder: The videos that don’t work on YouTube and the future of the creator business with Nebula CEO Dave Wiskus  Awesome Socks Club Awesome Coffee Club Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23051537 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we’re talking to Jennifer Hyman, co-founder and CEO of Rent the Runway. Rent the Runway is a a pretty simple idea: it’s a clothing rental and subscription business for women which launched in 2008. The basic idea is pretty simple: you can rent clothes one by one, and Subscribers pay a certain monthly amount for a certain number of pieces that they can swap out anywhere from 1 to 4 times a month depending on the tier of their membership. Rent the Runway also lets customers buy secondhand clothing either after they rent it or just outright.  But Rent the Runway has had a pretty intense path from its founding in 2008 to going public in 2021: the onset of the pandemic in 2020 cratered the business as 60 percent of customers canceled or paused their subscriptions, and Jennifer was forced to make drastic cuts to survive. But she says that now things are swinging back, as more and more people are spending their dollars going out, traveling, and generally shifting their spending from things to experiences. There’s a post Covid wedding boom going on: Rent the Runway is right there for people. Jenn and I talked about that swing in the business, but we spent most of this conversation talking about running a company that basically does really high-risk logistics: sourcing clothes, sending them to people, getting them back, cleaning them, and sending them out again. Spotify and Netflix run subscription businesses where the products never wear out or get dirty; Jenn has to deal with red win stains at scale. In fact, Rent the Runway runs one of the country’s biggest dry cleaning operations, which I find to be completely fascinating: what does dry cleaning innovation actually look like, and how does it hit the bottom line? My favorite episodes of Decoder are the ones where simple ideas – renting clothes – turn out to be incredible complicated to execute. This is one of those. Links: Apple defends upcoming privacy changes as ‘standing up for our users’ Rent the Runway, a secondhand fashion site, makes its trading debut. Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23041884 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino. Our Editorial Director is Brooke Minters. And our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All right, let’s talk about the metaverse.  You probably can’t stop hearing about it. It’s in startup pitches, in earnings reports, some companies are creating metaverse divisions, and Mark Zuckerberg changed Facebook’s name to Meta to signal that he’s shifting the entire company to focus on the metaverse. The problem, very simply, is that no one knows what the metaverse is, what it’s supposed to do, or why anyone should care about it. Luckily, we have some help. Today, I’m talking to Matthew Ball, who is the author of the new book called The Metaverse: And How It Will Revolutionize Everything. Matthew was the global head of strategy at Amazon Studios. In 2018, he left Amazon to become an analyst and started writing about the metaverse on his blog. He’s been writing about this since way before the hype exploded, and his book aims to be the best resource for understanding the metaverse, which he sees as the next phase of the internet. It’s not just something that you access through a VR headset, though that’s part of it. It’s how you’ll interact with everything. That sort of change is where new companies have opportunities to unseat the old guard. This episode gets very in the weeds, but it really helped me understand the decisions some companies have made around building digital worlds and the technical challenges and business challenges that are slowing it down — or might even stop it. And, of course, I asked whether any of this is a good idea in the first place because, well, I’m not so sure. But there’s a lot here, so listen, and then you tell me. Links: Matthew Ball on Twitter  Mark Zuckerberg on why Facebook is rebranding to Meta  Microsoft, Meta, and others are founding a metaverse open standards group Android emoji will actually look human this year Apple’s app tracking policy reportedly cost social media platforms nearly $10 billion Microsoft and Activision Blizzard: the latest news on the acquisition Microsoft HoloLens boss Alex Kipman is out after misconduct allegations European Parliament Think Tank memorandum—Metaverse: Opportunities, risks and policy implications Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23033211 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, we're sharing the first episode of Land of the Giants: The Facebook/ Meta Disruption. Long before Mark Zuckerberg renamed Facebook Meta and made an unprecedented pivot into the metaverse, he invented a feature that turned Facebook into a social network behemoth. The News Feed, which put your friends’ status updates onto your homepage, changed the way we interact online. It was a strong statement of Zuckerberg’s values: that connecting, and sharing, at scale would be de-facto good for the world. It was also his first public controversy. Follow Land of the Giants to get new episodes every Wednesday. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Happy Fourth of July to our listeners in the States. Decoder is only a year old, but we’ve decided a Decoder tradition is that every summer, we’re going to do an episode about the outdoor grill industry, which is gigantic and growing. Last year, I talked to Roger Dahle, the CEO of Blackstone Products, a griddle company that blew up on TikTok and actually went public a few months after we talked. This year, I’m talking to Jeremy Andrus, the CEO of Traeger, which makes beloved wood pellet smokers with all sorts of features — the high-end models even have cloud connectivity so you can control them from your phone. Traeger also recently went public; the company says it will book between $800–850 million in revenue this year. The Traeger story is fascinating: the company was around for 27 years and not growing very much when Jeremy bought it with the help of a private equity firm and became the CEO. He had no background in cooking; he had previously been CEO of Skullcandy, the headphone brand. His early run as CEO of Traeger was a bit of a nightmare, culminating in an arson of a truck at one of Traeger’s warehouses. Jeremy responded by cleaning house, replacing most of the team, and moving the company from Oregon to Utah. Since then, Traeger has grown its revenue by 10 times and hopes to close in on a billion dollars in revenue soon. But, it has all the challenges that come along with shipping big, heavy hardware products through the supply chain crisis, looming recession, and changing consumer behavior as one version of the pandemic seems to be ending and people are spending their money on travel instead of home goods. Jeremy was game to talk about all of that; we really got into it. Links: ​​How Traeger's CEO Cleaned Up a Toxic Culture Jeremy Andrus Found Success With Skullcandy. Now He Hopes To Do It Again With Traeger Grills. Traeger buys wireless thermometer company Meater  Jeremy Andrus Found Success With Skullcandy. Now He Hopes To Do It Again With Traeger Grills.  Traeger's stock opens 22% above IPO price, to value the grill market at $2.6 billion Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22953717 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m old enough to remember what it was like to fly before 9/11 — there were no TSA lines, there was no PreCheck, and there certainly wasn’t any requirement to take off your shoes. In fact, there wasn’t any TSA at all. But 9/11 radically changed the way we move through an airport. The formation of the new Department of Homeland Security and the new Transportation Security Administration led to much more rigorous and invasive security measures for travelers trying to catch their flight. This year is the 20th anniversary of the Department of Homeland Security and the TSA, and I think it’s safe to say that nobody enjoys waiting in the airport security line. And in the post-9/11 world, things like PreCheck are the great innovation of the department. At least according to Dan McCoy, who is the TSA’s chief innovation officer, who told me that PreCheck is “a hallmark government innovation program.” But what do programs like PreCheck and the larger surveillance apparatus that theoretically keep us safe mean for the choices we make? What do we give up to get into the shorter security line, and how comfortable should we be about that? This week, The Verge launches Homeland, our special series about the enormous influence of the Department of Homeland Security and how it has dramatically changed our country’s relationship with technology, surveillance, and immigration. So we have a special episode of Decoder with Dan McCoy to see where the TSA fits into that picture. Links: Read more stories from the Homeland series Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22945989 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mercedes-Benz CEO Ola Källenius became CEO in 2019 but has been working for Mercedes since 1993 in almost every part of the company. During that period, Mercedes spent time getting a lot bigger; the company famously merged with Chrysler for a time, forming a giant called DaimlerChrysler. But, over the past few years, it’s actually been getting much smaller and more focused. The Chrysler deal was undone and, just recently, Ola spun off the truck division into its own public company called Daimler Truck, leaving Mercedes-Benz to stand alone as a premium car brand. Car companies are either consolidating into giant conglomerates like Stellantis or shrinking and focusing like Mercedes. A lot of that is driven by the huge shift to electric vehicles and then, on top of that, to cars essentially becoming rolling computers. You’ll hear Ola refer to cars as “digital products” a lot — and to Mercedes itself as a tech company. (Actually, he says it’s a luxury and tech company.) Mercedes now has two new EVs, the EQS and the EQE, both of which have massive infotainment screens running Mercedes’ proprietary MBUX system, which even has its own voice assistant called Hey Mercedes. I had to ask Ola about Apple’s recent announcement that the next version of CarPlay would be able to take over every display in the car, including the instrument cluster. Apple showed a Mercedes logo on a slide during that presentation — so, is Ola ready to hand over his UI to Cupertino?  Let’s find out. Ola Källenius, CEO of Mercedes-Benz. Here we go. Links: Mercedes-Benz Vision EQXX concept car traveled over 1,000 km on a single charge Mercedes-Benz unveils sporty, ultra-long-range vision EQXX electric concept car The six-figure Mercedes-Benz EQS gets a 350-mile range rating Daimler AG to rebrand as Mercedes-Benz on Feb. 1 Big automakers are breaking themselves apart to compete with Silicon Valley Mercedes-Benz reveals an electric G-Wagen concept for the future Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22936880 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Verge is all about how technology make us feel. Our screens and our systems aren’t inert, or neutral – they create emotions, sometimes the strongest emotions anyone actually feels in their day to day lives. I’ve been thinking about that a lot ever since I read a new book called Everything I Need I Get From You: How Fangirls Created the Internet by Kaitlyn Tiffany, who was a culture reporter at The Verge several years ago. The thesis of her book is that online fandom, specifically the hardcore fans of the British boy band One Direction, created much of the online culture we live in today on social platforms. And her bigger thesis is that fandom overall is a cultural and political force that can’t be ignored; it shapes elections, it drives cultural conversation, it can bring joy to people who feel lonely, and it can result in dramatic harassment campaigns when fans turn on someone. Links: Kaitlyn Tiffany Verge Archive One Direction Playlist Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22930314 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today is Apple’s Worldwide Developers Conference, or WWDC. It’s one of the biggest events of the year for Apple, one of the most important companies in the world. In fact, Apple is the most valuable company in the world, and it posted $18 billion in net profits in its first quarter — the most quarterly profit of any public company in history. So, as we go into another huge Apple event, I wanted to have Verge labor reporter Zoe Schiffer on to talk about something else that’s happening inside Apple: a brewing push by its retail employees to unionize, store by store, because they’re unhappy with their pay and working conditions. Zoe is really well-sourced; she has an inside look at this fight. So, she helps us explain how this all works and what it might mean. Links: Fired #AppleToo organizer files labor charge against the company Apple’s frontline employees are struggling to survive Apple hires anti-union lawyers in escalating union fight This is what Apple retail employees in Atlanta are fighting for First US Apple Store union election set for June 2nd in Atlanta Apple accused of union busting in new labor board filing Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22917648 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Michael is president of the Blockchain Association of Ukraine and founder of the Kuna Exchange, which lets people buy cryptocurrency and swap between them. Earlier this year, the Ukrainian government set up wallets on Kuna and other exchanges to accept donations to the war effort in crypto; in April, Bloomberg reported it had received over $60 million in crypto donations. What’s more, earlier this year Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy also signed a virtual assets bill into law, which will recognize cryptocurrency as an asset in Ukraine when the war is over. As president of the Blockchain Association, Michael lobbied for this law, which you’ll hear him talk about — especially in the context of how little faith he has in the banking system. He says several times that, even before the war, it couldn’t be trusted and that people were already using a combination of crypto and dollars for large transactions instead of Ukraine’s actual currency, which is called the hryvnia. Links: Ukraine Readies NFT Sales as Crypto Donations Top $60 Million Ukraine's Zelenskyy Signs Virtual Assets Bill Into Law, Legalizing Crypto Crypto Goes to War in Ukraine Blockchain Association of Ukraine Russian tycoon Tinkov sells stake in TCS Group to billionaire Potanin The Bitcoin Boom Cypriot financial crisis The 2020 Global Crypto Adoption Index: Cryptocurrency is a Global Phenomenon Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22902506 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott. It was researched by Liz Lian and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One of our recurring jokes at The Verge is that every YouTuber eventually makes a video where they talk about how mad they are at YouTube. Whether it’s demonetization or copyright strikes or just the algorithm changing, YouTubers have to contend with a big platform that has a lot of power over their business, and they often don’t have the leverage to push back.  On this episode of Decoder, I’m talking to Dave Wiskus, the CEO of two really interesting companies: one is called Standard, which is a management company for YouTubers, and the other is Nebula, an alternative paid streaming platform where creators can post videos, take a direct cut of the revenue, and generally fund work that might get lost on YouTube.  What really stood out to me here is that Dave is in the business of making things: this conversation was really grounded in the reality of the creator business as it exists today and how that real business can support real people. You’ll hear it when we talk about Web3 and NFTs a little bit — Dave just thinks that stuff is bullshit, and he says so because it’s not a business that exists now. That’s an important dynamic to think about — and one for more platforms to take seriously. Links: Dave's subscriber tweet Nebula Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22840704 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Google I/O was this week and Nilay Patel and David Pierce had a chance to sit down with Google CEO Sundar Pichai to talk about the event and the products that were announced. This interview was recorded for The Vergecast, another podcast from The Verge. You can listen to The Vergecast wherever you get your podcasts – or just click here. We hope you enjoyed the interview. Decoder will be back again on Tuesday with an all new episode. See you then. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today Nilay Patel talking to Daniel Dines, the founder and CEO of UiPath, one of the biggest automation companies in the world. But not the automation you might think; UiPath sells software automation, or what consultants call “robotic process automation” so they can sound fancy and charge higher fees. UiPath and other software automation companies have a different approach to solving issues with your legacy software: just hire another computer to use software for you. Seriously: UiPath uses computer vision to literally look at what’s on a screen, and then uses a virtual mouse and keyboard to click around and do things in apps like Excel and Salesforce. The automations can be mundane, like generating lists of people to contact from public records, or intensely complicated: UiPath can actually monitor how different software is used throughout a company and suggest automations. Huge companies like Uber, Facebook, Spotify, and Google all use UIPath. Links: The robots are coming for your office UiPath AI Computer Vision Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22828061 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tony Fadell was instrumental in the development of the iPod and iPhone at Apple and then co-founded Nest Labs, which kicked off the consumer smart home market with its smart thermostat in 2011. Tony sold Nest to Google for $3.2 billion in 2014 and eventually left Google. He now runs an investment company called Future Shape.  Links: Inside the Nest: iPod creator Tony Fadell wants to reinvent the thermostat General Magic - Trailer Inside Facebook’s metaverse for work Silicon Graphics Google is reorganizing and Sundar Pichai will become new CEO Fire drill: can Tony Fadell and Nest build a better smoke detector? Google purchases Nest for $3.2 billion Twitter accepts buyout, giving Elon Musk total control of the company Nest is rejoining Google to better compete with Amazon and Apple Apple Music Event 2005 - Motorola Rokr E1 / iTunes Phone Activision Blizzard hit with another sexual harassment lawsuit Nest buying video-monitoring startup Dropcam for $555 million What matters about Matter, the new smart home standard ZIGBEE ON MARS! Directory: Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple Andy Grove, former CEO of Intel Pat Gelsinger, current CEO of Intel Sundar Pichai, current CEO of Alphabet Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla, SpaceX, and The Boring Company Jeff Williams, COO of Apple Matt Rogers, Nest co-founder Jeff Robbin, VP of consumer applications at Apple Steve Hoteling, former CEO gesture recognition company Finger Works Jon Rubinstein, senior VP of the iPod division at Apple Steve Sakomen, hardware engineer and executive at Apple  Avie Tavanian, chief software technology officer at Apple Scott Forstall, senior VP of iOS software, Apple Jony Ive, chief design officer, Apple Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22817673 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Cindy Cohn is the executive Director of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, or EFF. If you’re an internet user of a certain age like me, you know the EFF as the premiere civil liberties group for the internet. The EFF has fought pitched battles against things like government surveillance, digital rights management for music and movies, and government speech regulations that would violate the First Amendment. These fights were important, and shaped the internet as we know it today. Links Electronic Frontier Foundation How to fix the Internet: Podcast by the EFF How the EU is fighting tech giants with Margrethe Vestager Apple pushes back on iPhone order, says FBI is seeking ‘dangerous power' Here’s why Apple’s new child safety features are so controversial Viacom vs YouTube Texas passes law that bans kicking people off social media based on ‘viewpoint’ Santa Clara Principles Carterfone Decoder interview with YouTube chief product officer Neal Mohan Computer Fraud and Abuse Act Facebook v. Power Ventures Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22805290 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Alan Yeung is a professor of entrepreneurship at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and the former head of the Foxconn project in Wisconsin. If you don’t quite remember, the Foxconn project in Wisconsin was announced in 2017 as a massive deal to build the first “Generation 10.5” LCD factory in North America. It was also one of the first big moments in the Trump presidency, complete with President Trump holding a golden shovel at a lavish groundbreaking ceremony where he said the factory would be “the eighth wonder of the world.” But it turned out that while Foxconn was putting on a great show, no LCD factory was actually getting built, even though Foxconn kept saying it was happening. Links We're nominated for a Webby! Vote for Decoder! The award winning story from Josh Dzieza - The 8th wonder of the world Wisconsin's $4.1 billion Foxconn factory boondoggle Foxconn’s $100M deal with the University of Wisconsin has students worried What a new governor means for Wisconsin’s controversial Foxconn factory Foxconn and the village: the $10B factory deal that turned one small Wisconsin town upside down No one seems to know what Foxconn is doing in Wisconsin After a ‘personal conversation’ with Trump, Foxconn says it will build a factory in Wisconsin after all Foxconn is confusing the hell out of Wisconsin Foxconn promised a ‘correction’ about empty buildings in Wisconsin two weeks ago, and it hasn’t said a word since With Foxconn chief’s Trump meeting, the Wisconsin project gets even more political One month ago, Foxconn said its innovation centers weren’t empty — they still are Foxconn’s delays might finally give Wisconsin the upper hand One year after Trump’s Foxconn groundbreaking, there is almost nothing to show for it Even fixing Wisconsin’s Foxconn deal won’t fix it, says state-requested report Foxconn’s first announced product for its Wisconsin factory is an airport coffee robot Foxconn releases and immediately cancels plans for a giant dome in Wisconsin Foxconn's giant glass dome in Wisconsin is back, baby Exclusive: documents show Foxconn refuses to renegotiate Wisconsin deal Foxconn’s buildings in Wisconsin are still empty, one year later Exclusive: Wisconsin denies Foxconn tax subsidies after contract negotiations fail The 8th wonder of the world Exclusive: Wisconsin report confirms Foxconn's “LCD factory” isn't real Foxconn tells Wisconsin it never promised to build an LCD factory Intel selects Ohio for ‘largest silicon manufacturing location on the planet’ Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22794506 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chris Dixon leads crypto investing at the storied Silicon Valley venture capital firm Andreessen Horowitz, or a16z. He’s responsible for leading funding rounds for Coinbase, which went public about a year ago, the NFT marketplace OpenSea, and Yuga Labs, which is behind the Bored Ape Yacht Club among others. He is also a prolific user of Twitter, where he posts lengthy threads about crypto and web3. He is at once one of the biggest investors in the space, and its biggest booster. Links Decoder is nominated for a Webby. Vote! 1000 True Fans My first impressions of web3 A comprehensive breakdown of the Epic v. Apple ruling SEC v Howey Co. Transcript https://www.theverge.com/e/22784768 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Julia Alexander was the perfect guest to come on our show and talk about the state of the streaming industry – we’re a couple years into the huge shift to streaming entertainment in Hollywood, and it’s clear the streamers are here to stay. Apple just won the Oscar for Best Picture for a film it bought out of Sundance called Coda. Amazon now owns MGM. Netflix is investing in games and hinting at advertising for the first time. One idea that comes up on Decoder again and again is that how we distribute media has a huge influence on the media itself – and we talked about what kinds of movies and shows are getting made now that the streamers are here to stay. Links: Downstream Podcast ‘Extremely awkward’: Bob Chapek and Bob Iger had a falling out, they rarely talk — and the rift looms over Disney’s future Pixar staff speaks out against Disney moving its films to streaming only: ‘It’s hard to grasp’ HBO Max and Discovery Plus will merge into one app Apple and Major League Baseball to offer “Friday Night Baseball” Yankees will have 21 games only available on Amazon Prime Prime Video unveils logo for 'Thursday Night Football' CNN Plus launches with Reddit-like interactive Q&As Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22774600 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For this episode, I’m talking to Steve Aoki. He is a superstar DJ, producer, record label owner, and prolific entrepreneur. Steve has been part of the music industry since 1996, so he’s been through a lot of these big tech transitions, and now he’s heavily invested in another, with Web3, the Aokiverse. It involves selling tokens and NFTs and, over time, is meant to be part of the metaverse. Because, of course. Links Aokiverse Dim Mak Travel Advice from Steve Aoki, Who Throws Cake at 2,500 People a Year Transcript https://www.theverge.com/e/22763374 Credits Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott. Additional research was done by Liz Lian and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Aparna Chennapragada is the chief product officer at Robinhood, the popular stock and crypto trading app. And we have some news to discuss: Robinhood is launching a new cash card today that allows people to spend money directly out of their Robinhood account and set up various plans to automatically invest by rounding up purchase amounts to the nearest dollar and putting the difference in various investments. Links: How r/wallstreetbets gamed the stock of GameStop The chicken and the pig Google is reportedly removing Google Now Launcher from the Play Store Robinhood Snacks Robinhood buys Say Technologies for $140M to improve shareholder-company relations Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22753372 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Margrethe Vestager is one of the driving forces behind tech regulation worldwide. Appointed as the European Commission’s Commissioner of Competition in 2014 and an executive vice president in 2019, she’s pursued antitrust cases against Apple, Google, Meta (formerly Facebook), and Amazon among others. Now, with the EU on the verge of implementing a new antitrust law called the Digital Markets Act, Vestager is planning her next moves. Links: EU's Vestager says analysing metaverse ahead of possible regulatory action The Digital Markets Act: ensuring fair and open digital markets Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22745302 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Matt Mullenweg is the CEO of Automattic, the company that owns WordPress.com, which he co-founded, and Tumblr, the irrepressible social network it acquired from the wreckage of AOL, Yahoo, and Verizon. Matt’s point of view is that the world is better off when the web is open and fun, and Automattic builds and acquires products that help that goal along. Links: Exclusive: Automattic CEO Matt Mullenweg on what’s next for Tumblr Verizon is selling Tumblr to WordPress’ owner Automattic, owner of Tumblr and WordPress.com, buys podcast app Pocket Casts Gutenberg Tumblr Shop Why Apple’s new privacy feature is such a big deal Taylor Swift's Tumblr Tumblr will ban all adult content on December 17th How Tumblr Became Popular for Being Obsolete Basecamp CTO David Heinemeier Hansson and Rep. David Cicilline on Apple's monopolistic app store fees Inside Sonos' decision to sue Google - and how it won After the porn ban, Tumblr users have ditched the platform as promised The Trauma Floor: The secret lives of Facebook moderators in America Vox Media adds The Coral Project Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22741898 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott. Research was done by Liz Lian. It was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I’m talking to Eben Upton, the CEO of Raspberry Pi, a fascinating company that makes beloved tiny hackable computers that are extremely inexpensive. They’re also some of the only readily available computers that are designed to be tinkered with. They’re not heavily locked down, and using one requires learning how a computer actually works. And that’s the entire point: Eben told me the idea of the Raspberry Pi was to create a product that enticed kids into studying computer science at the University of Cambridge. They’ve more than achieved that goal. Seven million Raspberry Pi units were sold last year, and there’s talk of the company going public.  Links: Raspberry Pi The business of finding a better job, with Career Karma CEO Ruben Harris How Artificial Intelligence is Helping Japanese Cucumber Farmers Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22730196 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week I sat down with Patrick Spence, the CEO of Sonos, and Eddie Lazarus, his Chief Legal Officer. I wanted both Patrick and Eddie on the show to talk about when a company like Sonos makes the decision to head to the courts and increasingly, Congress. Sonos has long accused other tech giants of stealing its tech, but in 2019 it actually sued Google for patent infringement. Sonos recently won that lawsuit at the US International Trade Commission, which ruled that Google infringed all five patents Sonos brought to court. I wanted to understand how Patrick and Eddie decided to take the risk of a lawsuit here – Sonos claims Google actually infringes over 150 patents, so how did they pick.. Five.. to sue over?  Links: Sonos sues Google for allegedly stealing smart speaker tech Sonos CEO will testify to lawmakers after suing Google Google countersues Sonos for patent infringement Sonos sues Google for infringing five more wireless audio patents A judge has ruled that Google infringed on Sonos’ patents Sonos says Google is blocking it from offering more than one voice assistant at once Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22719377 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m going to let you in on a Decoder secret: at the end of last year, I tasked our producers with finding better ways for us to cover crypto and Web 3.0 on Decoder. I don’t think it’s any secret that I’m fairly skeptical of crypto, but I want to come by that skepticism honestly—and on the flip side, I want to make sure to see its opportunities and benefits clearly. We’ve already done episodes on Bitcoin and DAOs, decentralized autonomous organizations, and we’re going to do more episodes as the year goes on. Today I’m talking to Tonya Evans, a law professor at Penn State Dickinson Law. She teaches IP law, copyright, and blockchain. She also hosts the Tech Intersect podcast, where she covers how law and technology intersect. She has spent a lot of time thinking about crypto assets and how they interact with the law. Tonya’s point of view is that we shouldn’t just abandon many of the legal frameworks we have today—she just wants them to adapt to this new internet. Links: The counterfeit NFT problem is only getting worse Instagram says sites need photographers’ permission to embed posts BlockFi settlement with the SEC A cringe rapper slash Forbes contributor allegedly found with billions in stolen Bitcoin Constitution DAO Decoder episode Alfonso Ribeiro Sues Fortnite Over Use of His Signature Fresh Prince Dance, The Carlton The ‘Carlton dance’ couldn’t be copyrighted for a Fortnite lawsuit Adi Robertson's reporting about Spice DAO Tonya Evans' website, ProfTonyaEvans.com Tonya Evans on Twitter Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22708620 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bärí Williams is a legal and operations advisor to tech companies who focuses on AI and diversity. Her credentials are rock solid: Bärí was lead counsel at Facebook working on various projects, including internet connectivity efforts and diversifying the company’s supply chain. After that, Bärí went to work at StubHub, an AI startup studio called All Turtles, and a data and identity analytics company called Bandwagon Fan Club. But now, she’s independent — a business of one, consulting on operations with a focus on diversity and AI. I was curious why she decided to leave being a tech executive behind and make that shift to diversity work. We talked about that, but our conversation actually started with sports news — NFL news. Links: Diversity wins: how inclusion matters Black in tech The 4 most explosive allegations from Brian Flores’ lawsuit against the NFL California just made it a lot harder for companies to cover up harassment and abuse Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22697189 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lauren Williams is the co-founder and CEO of Capital B, a new nonprofit media company dedicated to news for Black audiences. Capital B launched on January 31st, with both a national news site and a local newsroom dedicated to Atlanta – and they plan to expand to more cities over time. Links: Capital B Recode Media Podcast Tired Of The Social Media Rat Race, Journalists Move To Writing Substack Newsletters Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22686070 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, and Jackie McDermott with and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s an interesting time to talk to someone in the business of helping people get new jobs — we’re still fully in the middle of the pandemic-driven Great Resignation, and a record 4.5 million people quit their jobs in November 2021, and it doesn’t seem to be slowing down. But that’s exactly what Career Karma and CEO Ruben Harris are doing. Links: Career Karma A record 4.5 million workers quit their jobs in November Breaking Into Startups AT&T’s $1 billion gambit: Retraining nearly half its workforce for jobs of the future Making uncommon knowledge common The Great Resignation is accelerating How an Excel TickToker manifested her way to making six figures a day Launch House Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22674665 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Jackie McDermott, and Liam James. It was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Regular listeners of Decoder know car CEOs love coming on the show. There is a lot of change in the car industry, a lot of big ideas about how to manage that change, and a lot of big problems to solve: the transition to electric vehicles, the fact that cars are basically turning into rolling smartphones, how to make self-driving work safely, and more. And, of course, we always end up talking about Tesla — because how can you not? Links: Listen to the full interviews here Luminar CEO Austin Russell Ford CEO Jim Farley Argo AI CEO Brian Saleski Polestar CEO Thomas Ingenlath Waymo CEO Tekedra Mawakana Jeep CEO Christian Meunier Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg Volkswagen CEO Herbert Diess Transcript of this episode Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, and Jackie McDermott with and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Links Dieselgate coverage on The Verge VW vows to build massive electric car charging network across US Electrify America announces doubling of charging network with 1,800 stations and 10,000 chargers Transcript https://www.theverge.com/e/22652357 Credits Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, and Jackie McDermott with and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Cristiano Amon is the president and CEO of Qualcomm, and he’s always been a relentless cheerleader for what mobile computing can do for people — especially if that mobile computing is powered by Qualcomm’s chips. Links: Apple supplier TSMC confirms it’s building an Arizona chip plant Intel will make Qualcomm chips in new foundry deal The Verge 5G landing page Qualcomm’s new Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 chip is here to power the Android flagships of 2022 Qualcomm’s next-gen CPU for PCs will take on Apple’s M-series chips in 2023 Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22640552 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, and Jackie McDermott with and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this special, Thursday episode of Decoder, Andrew Hawkins spoke with secretary of transportation Pete Butigieg ahead of his speech at CES 2022. 2021 was an eventful year for Buttigieg, the youngest and arguably the most notable person to take on the role of transportation secretary in many years. Congress passed President Joe Biden’s $1 trillion infrastructure plan, which will provide billions of new funding for the creation of a national network of electric vehicle charging stations. The secretary and Andrew talked about that, about self driving vehicles, and of course, Tesla. Links: Secretary Pete Buttigieg on the future of transportation The Verge CES hub Biden signs $1 trillion infrastructure package into law The investigation into Tesla Autopilot’s emergency vehicle problem is getting bigger Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22633231 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andru Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Logitech is one of those ubiquitous companies — it’s been around since 1981, selling all kinds of important things that connect to computers of all shapes and sizes: mice, keyboards, cases, cameras, you name it. Nilay Patel spoke with Logitech CEO Bracken Darrell about how the company met increased demand during the pandemic, whether that changed his plans to shift to a services company, and how the supply chain issues around the world affect his business. They also talked about how he manages Logitech’s relationships with other tech giants like Apple and Amazon. And we had to talk about the decision to kill the Harmony remote line. Links: Nilay's interview with Bracken Darrell from 2019 Everything you need to know about the global chip shortage Why charging phones is such a complex business with Anker CEO Steven Yang Logitech officially discontinues its Harmony remotes How an excel TikToker manifested her way to making six figures a day Logitech is buying Streamlabs for $89 million Logitech announces cheaper Magic Keyboard alternative for new iPad Pro Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22610722 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andrew Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So today I’m talking to Jameel Jaffer, executive director of the The Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia University, about one of the hardest problems at the intersection of tech and policy right now: the question of how to regulate social media platforms. Everyone seems to think we should do it – Democrats, Republicans – even Facebook is running ads saying it welcomes regulation. It’s weird. But while everyone might agree on the idea, no one agrees on the execution, and the biggest hurdle is the First Amendment.. Links: Florida governor signs law to block ‘deplatforming’ of Florida politicians Judge blocks Florida’s social media law Texas passes law that bans kicking people off social media based on ‘viewpoint’ Federal court blocks Texas law banning ‘viewpoint discrimination’ on social media Social media companies want to co-opt the First Amendment. Courts shouldn’t let them. Miami Herald Publishing Company vs. Tornillo Pacific Gas & Electric Company v. Public Utilities Commission of California Hurley v. Irish-American Gay, Lesbian Bisexual Group Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22602514 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, and Jackie McDermott and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andru Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

John Hanke is the CEO of Niantic, a company that makes the wildly popular Pokemon Go mobile game in partnership with Nintendo and the Pokémon company. Pokemon Go, and its predecessor Ingress, are now the largest and most successful augmented reality games in the industry, which means John has long been at the forefront of what we’ve all started calling the metaverse—digital worlds that interact with the real world. Lots of companies are chasing metaverse hype but John’s been at it for a while, and I wanted to talk about the reality instead of the hype. We also coin the phrase “marketplace of realities.” It’s a ride. Links: What’s left of Magic Leap? Microsoft is supplying 120,000 HoloLens-based headsets to the US Army Snap’s first AR Spectacles are an ambitious, impractical start Facebook just revealed its new name: Meta There will never be another Pokémon Go Pokémon Go is still incredibly relevant Harry Potter: Wizards Unite is shutting down next year Springboard: the secret history of the first real smartphone is out now The best thing to do in VR is work out NFT's, explained Pokémon Go creator Niantic is working on AR glasses with Qualcomm Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22596531 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, and Jackie McDermott with research by Liz Lian and it was edited by Callie Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Sr Audio Director is Andru Marino and our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jonah Erlich is one of the core members of a group called ConstitutionDAO, a group that raised $47 Million to try to buy one of the original copies of the United States Constitution at an auction held by the high-end auction house Sotheby’s. Links: ConstitutionDAO Endaoment Crypto collective raises $27 million to bid for rare copy of US Constitution ConstitutionDAO loses $43 million auction of rare US Constitution copy ConstitutionDAO will shut down after losing bid for Constitution Almost buying a copy of the Constitution is easy, but giving the money back is hard Code is Law Ice Bucket Challenge dramatically accelerated the fight against ALS Iwata Asks: Just Being President Was A Waste! Succession Could ConstitutionDAO's PEOPLE token be the next meme coin? Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22584604 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Jackie McDermott. We are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kat Norton is a Microsoft Excel influencer. She has over a million followers on TikTok and Instagram, where she goes by the name Miss Excel, and she’s leveraged that into a software training business that is now generating up to six figures of revenue a day. That’s six figures a day. And she’s only been doing this since June 2020. Nilay Patel talks to her about how she built the business, how she uses energetics to go viral, and why her relationship with social media is so different than other creators and influencers, Links: Excelerator Course A Microsoft Excel influencer quit her day job and is making 6 figures from her unconventional way of teaching spreadsheet hacks, tips, and tricks Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22571899 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, and Andrew Marino. And we are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky prides himself on thinking very differently than other CEOs, and his answers to the Decoder questions about how he structures and manages his company were almost always the opposite of what I’m used to hearing on the show. Airbnb is pretty much a single team, focused on a single product, and it all rolls up to Brian. That’s very different from most other big companies, which have lots of divisions and overlapping lines of authority. And Airbnb’s relationship to cities is changing as tourism changes. Airbnb used to be the poster child for a tech company that showed up without permission and fought with regulators, but as the company has grown and the pandemic has changed things, it’s entered what is hopefully a more mature phase — it just came to a deal with New York City after ten years of argument. I asked Brian about that and about what it’s like to run a public company now — the transition from scrappy startup to public company engaged with regulators is a big one. Of course, I also had to ask about cryptocurrency and the metaverse — does Brian think we’re all going to be visiting virtual NFT museums on vacations in the future? You have to listen and find out. Okay, Brian Chesky, CEO of Airbnb, here we go. Links: Can Brian Chesky Save Airbnb? Jony Ive is bringing his design talents to... Airbnb Zillow reportedly needs to sell 7,000 houses after it bought too many City of New York and Airbnb Reach Settlement Agreement Airbnb hosts discriminate against black guests based on names, study suggests Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22547463 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, and Andrew Marino, our research was done by Liz Lian. And we are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks to Steven Yang, the CEO and founder of Anker Innovations. The conversation covers the full stack of Decoder topics: taking bets on new tech like gallium nitride, building a direct-to-consumer business on Amazon, and the complexity of managing the Amazon relationship, regulatory issues, platform fees — you name it. And all from a company that started making phone chargers. Anker is endlessly fascinating. Links: Anker CEO Steven Yang is all in on USB-C Amazon-Native Brand Anker Goes Public EU proposes mandatory USB-C on all devices, including iPhones Gallium nitride is the silicon of the future Video: Is gallium nitride the silicon of the future? Anker MagGo devices snap on for wireless iPhone charging in your car and home Amazon confirms it removed RavPower, a popular phone battery and charger brand Another Amazon-first gadget brand has suspiciously vanished: Choetech Doug DeMuro on Decoder Nebula Capsule II mini projector review: TV in a can Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22533880 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams, and Andrew Marino. We are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to a special Thursday edition of Decoder. You may have read on the site that Verge executive editor Dieter Bohn has been working on a documentary called Springboard: the secret history of the first real smartphone. It's about a company called Handspring and I think the Decoder audience will be really into this story so today we're interviewing Dieter. We talked about his documentary and he brought an exclusive clip that didn't make it into the film. That documentary is streaming now on The Verge's new streaming apps that you can get on your TV or set top box. We have them for Android, for Amazon Fire TV, for Roku and Apple TV. We've been working on these for a long time. It's a little more complicated than you might think to make these apps, make them good, distribute them on everyone's app stores, some real Decoder pain points in there. Links Springboard trailer and how to get the streaming apps Transcript https://www.theverge.com/e/22526129 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Facebook announced a major corporate rebrand by changing its company name to Meta. The new name is meant to solidify the social media giant’s longterm bet on building the metaverse. On this episode of Decoder, vice president of Reality Labs Andrew Bosworth talked with The Verge’s Alex Heath about Facebook’s rebrand to Meta, how content moderation will work in the metaverse, and the hardware journey from virtual to mixed reality, and eventually, AR glasses. Links: Mark Zuckerberg on why Facebook is rebranding to Meta Facebook is spending at least $10 billion this year on its metaverse division Eight things we learned from the Facebook Papers Facebook is planning to rebrand the company with a new name Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22517027 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone and Andrew Marino and we are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Adobe is one of those companies that I don’t think we pay enough attention to — it’s been around since 1982, and the entire creative economy runs through its software. You don’t just edit a photo, you Photoshop it. We spend a lot of time on Decoder talking about the creator economy, but creators themselves spend all their time working in Adobe’s tools. On this episode, I’m talking to Scott Belsky, chief product officer at Adobe, about the new features coming to their products, many of which focus on collaboration, and about creativity broadly — who gets to be a creative, where they might work, and how they get paid. Transcript Links: NFTs Explained Adobe brings a simplified Photoshop to the web Adobe is adding a collaborative mood board to Creative Cloud Soon you can use Photoshop to prepare your art as an NFT The Dog Ramps Tweet The Furry Lisa, CryptoArt, & The New Economy Of Digital Creativity A $120,000 Banana Is Peeled From an Art Exhibition and Eaten Adobe and Twitter are designing a system for permanently attaching artists’ names to pictures "I still own you" clip Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams, and Andrew Marino and we are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week we are talking to Jeep CEO Christian Meunier – and there’s a lot to talk about. Jeep just announced its second hybrid electric vehicle in the US, the Grand Cherokee 4xe. It also announced a plan for its first electric car in 2023, and to have EVs across the line by 2025, which is very soon. And it’s now part of a huge global car company called Stellantis. So I wanted to know: why start with hybrids, instead of jumping straight to EVs? What does it mean to be the CEO of a brand like Jeep inside of of a huge international company like Stellantis? How does the Jeep team make decisions about features and technology, and how much do they have to defer to a larger parent company? And what does it mean for Jeep, one of the most iconic American car brands, to be part of a huge global company now? Christian and I talked about all of that, as well as how the chip shortage is affecting Jeep, what cars will look like in 2040, and Jeep’s use of the name “Cherokee” in 2021. Yeah, this interview goes places. Links: The first plug-in hybrid Jeep Grand Cherokee is here Tested: 2021 Jeep Wrangler 4xe Complicates a Simple Machine 2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon 4xe: A Hybrid That Comes Up Short The electric Mustang Mach-E takes Ford in a whole new direction Jeep Badge of Honor App Jeep EV Day video Episode Transcript Credits: Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams, and Andrew Marino. And we are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

My guest today is Dave Limp, the senior vice president of devices and services at Amazon – or, more simply, the guy in charge of Alexa. Dave’s group at Amazon also includes the Kindle e-reader, the Ring and Blink security camera systems, the Eero wifi router, and a host of other products that connect to Amazon services.  We wanted to know what the business behind Alexa looks like — Amazon sells Echo products at basically break even, it runs the Alexa for all of them for free, and it employs thousands of engineers who work on it. How does that make money? How might it make money in the future? How should we think about Alexa competing with other smart assistants, and for what kinds of business? The answers were not what you’d expect. Links: Why the global chip shortage is making it so hard to buy a PS5 Amazon's new Ring Alarm Pro combines a security system with an Eero Router Say Hello to Astro, Alexa on wheels Amazon is now accepting your applications for its home surveillance drone Amazon Glow is a video chat gadget with built-in games to keep kids engaged Amazon’s new Echo Show 15 is meant to hang on your wall Amazon’s new Kindle Paperwhite adds a bigger screen, longer battery life, and USB-C Amazon starts making its own TVs with new Fire TV Omni and 4-Series Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K Max review: the one to buy How to connect Alexa to Spotify, Apple Music, and more Amazon's race to create the disappearing computer Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22483986 Credits: This episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams, and Andru Marino. And we are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In Land of the Giants: The Apple Revolution, Recode’s Peter Kafka explores the company that changed what a computer is — and then changed what a phone is. From its beginnings as a niche personal computer company, Apple became the preeminent maker of consumer tech products, a cultural trendsetter, and the most valuable company in the world. And along the way, it changed the way we live. Listen to Land of the Giants on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Waymo is working on self-driving taxis. Which is a huge deal. Ridesharing apps like Uber and Lyft have remade cities, allowed people to give up their cars, and generally connected the buttons you push on your phone to real things happening in the world more directly than almost any other app. Nilay Patel talked to Tekedra Mawakana, co-CEO of Waymo, about expanding Waymo’s service to other cities, the hurdles in place, and how she thinks the company will make money over time. We also talked about the regulatory issues the industry faces as it tries to roll out self-driving more broadly, and whether things like Tesla’s “full self driving” are confusing the issue or helping it.  This was a really fun conversation made even better because we recorded it live, on stage at Code Conference. Links: Meet the self-driving brains working with Tesla and Ford https://www.theverge.com/22627847/argo-ai-bryan-salesky-decoder-interview-lyft-self-driving   Ford CEO Jim Farley on building the electric F-150 -- and reinventing Ford  https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/20/22444294/ford-f150-lightning-pickup-truck-jim-farley-interview   Waymo CEO John Krafcik steps down, replaced by two co-CEOs https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/2/22364317/waymo-ceo-john-krafcik-stepping-down-self-driving-cars-google-alphabet   Riding in Waymo One, the Google spin-off’s first self-driving taxi service https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/5/18126103/waymo-one-self-driving-taxi-service-ride-safety-alphabet-cost-app   Waymo starts offering autonomous rides in San Francisco https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/24/22639226/waymo-san-francisco-rides-self-driving-service   Tesla opens ‘Full Self-Driving’ beta software to more customers https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/26/22693610/tesla-opens-full-self-driving-beta-software-more-customers   Waymo’s self-driving cars are now available on Lyft’s app in Phoenix https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/7/18536003/waymo-lyft-self-driving-ride-hail-app-phoenix   Google is spinning off its self-driving car program into a new company called Waymo https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/13/13936782/google-self-driving-car-waymo-spin-off-company   Car companies will have to report automated vehicle crashes under new rules https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/29/22555666/nhtsa-autonomous-vehicle-crash-report-data Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22472717 Credits: Host - Nilay Patel Lead Producer - Creighton DeSimone Associate Producer - Alexander Charles Adams Sr Audio Director - Andrew Marino Editor - Callie Wright Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks to John Carreyrou about his reporting on Theranos from his Wall Street Journal articles that broke the scandal in 2015 to his podcast covering the trial of Elizabeth Holmes today. Links: Bad Blood: The Final Chapter https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bad-blood-the-final-chapter/id1575738174 Theranos’ greatest invention was Elizabeth Holmes https://www.theverge.com/22656190/theranos-elizabeth-holmes-wire-fraud-trial-founder-myth Elizabeth Holmes is on trial for fraud over her time at Theranos https://www.theverge.com/22684354/elizabeth-holmes-trial-wire-fraud-theranos Apple Podcasts launches in-app subscriptions https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/20/22381980/apple-podcasts-app-subscriptions-new-design Hot startup Theranos has struggled with its blood-test technology https://www.wsj.com/articles/theranos-has-struggled-with-blood-tests-1444881901 *Tesla’s Autopilot was engaged when Model 3 crashed into truck, report states https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/16/18627766/tesla-autopilot-fatal-crash-delray-florida-ntsb-model-3   Uber halts self-driving tests after pedestrian killed in Arizona https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/19/17139518/uber-self-driving-car-fatal-crash-tempe-arizona   Elizabeth Holmes “was in charge” of Theranos, says Gen. Mattis https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/22/22689083/elizabeth-holmes-trial-james-mattis-testimony-theranos-fraud   Theranos reaches settlement with investor Partner Fund Management https://techcrunch.com/2017/05/01/theranos-reaches-settlement-with-investor-partner-fund-management/   Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22461304 Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams, and Andrew Marino. And we are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We talk a lot about the creator economy here on Decoder and one thing we’ve learned from all those conversations is that the creator economy is a market just like any other, with supply and demand, but that it’s also a market that is absolutely starved of information. So today I’m talking to Lindsey Lee Lugrin, the co-founder and CEO of a new platform called Fuck You Pay Me, which is an all-time great company name. FYPM is an app for creators to review and compare brand deals: what brands are paying, what it’s like to work with them, and whether people would work with them again. It’s kind of like Glassdoor or Yelp for influencers. Links The quirks and features of YouTube car reviews with Doug DeMuro https://www.theverge.com/22637871/doug-demuro-car-reviews-youtube-decoder-interview Advertising is complicated, but Melissa Grady is very good at it https://www.theverge.com/22174582/decoder-podcast-interview-cadillac-cmo-melissa-grady-advertising YouTube chief product officer Neal Mohan on the algorithm, monetization, and the future for creators https://www.theverge.com/22606296/youtube-shorts-fund-neal-mohan-decoder-interview The App With the Unprintable Name That Wants to Give Power to Creators https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/02/technology/fypm-creators-app-pay.html Introduction to smart contracts  https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/smart-contracts/ The golden age of YouTube is over  https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/5/18287318/youtube-logan-paul-pewdiepie-demonetization-adpocalypse-premium-influencers-creators Transcript https://www.theverge.com/e/22448278 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week on Decoder we are doing something a little different. We're talking with Charlie Harding, co-host of the podcast Switched on Pop a podcast about pop music, about the state of the music industry particularly as it relates to copyright. The conversation is framed around Olivia Rodrigo's debut album Sour and why she keeps handing out songwriting credits months after the album was released. This is kind of a hybrid between an episode of Decoder and an episode of Switched on Pop. We play a lot of music throughout the episode and in case you want to go back and listen to full songs we've made playlists for both Spotify and Apple Music. Spotify - https://spoti.fi/3nuMTt7 Apple Music - https://apple.co/3986hUw Links Olivia Rodrigo Studied All the Right Moves  https://www.vulture.com/2021/05/olivia-rodrigo-sour-album-review Why Taylor Swift is rerecording all her old songs https://www.vox.com/culture/22278732/taylor-swift-re-recording-fearless-love-story-master-rights-scooter-braun Olivia Rodrigo Gives Taylor Swift Songwriting Credit on Second ‘Sour’ Song, ‘Deja Vu’ https://variety.com/2021/music/news/olivia-rodrigo-taylor-swift-songwriting-credit-deja-vu-1235015769/ Olivia Rodrigo Adds Paramore to Songwriting Credits on ‘Good 4 U’ https://variety.com/2021/music/news/olivia-rodrigo-paramore-good-4-u-misery-business-1235048791/ ‘Blurred Lines’ Copyright Suit Against Robin Thicke, Pharrell Ends in $5M Judgment https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/robin-thicke-pharrell-williams-blurred-lines-copyright-suit-final-5-million-dollar-judgment-768508/   Katy Perry Wins Appeal in ‘Dark Horse’ Infringement Case https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/katy-perry-dark-horse-copyright-win-appeal-969009/   Led Zeppelin Wins Long ‘Stairway to Heaven’ Copyright Case https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/05/arts/music/stairway-to-heaven-led-zeppelin-lawsuit.html   Isley Feels Vindicated In Bolton Case https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/78775/isley-feels-vindicated-in-bolton-case Transcript - https://www.theverge.com/e/22436745 The Verge is turning 10 and we're throwing a party in New York City! Purchase tickets here - https://bit.ly/2YRI8iR This episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams, and Andrew Marino. We were edited by Callie Wright. And our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Apple has had a lot going on lately: we did a whole episode about the controversial child protection photo scanning features, which have now been delayed. A law in South Korea might force the company to change how App Store payments work; the company settled a Japanese case about the App Store recently, as well as a class-action lawsuit in this country. The verdict in the Epic trial will arrive and there are renewed questions about Apple’s relationship with the Chinese government. And, of course, it’s September — the month when new iPhones usually come out. But in the background, Verge senior reporter Zoë Schiffer has spent the past few months publishing story after story about unhappy Apple employees, who are starting to talk to the press more and more about what working at Apple is like, and how they’d like it to change. Nilay Patel talks to Zoë about the work she's been doing and what the future holds. Links: Here’s why Apple’s new child safety features are so controversial https://bit.ly/3n9E07W Apple delays controversial child protection features after privacy outcry https://bit.ly/38QdWX2 Apple and Google must allow developers to use other payment systems, new Korean law declares https://bit.ly/3BQeXeb Apple concedes to let apps like Netflix, Spotify, and Kindle link to the web to sign up https://bit.ly/3kT88Sg Epic Games v. Apple: the fight for the future of the App Store https://bit.ly/3ySf873 Slack CEO Stewart Butterfield on competing with Microsoft, the future of work, and managing all those notifications https://bit.ly/2VqBZck Apple employees circulate petition demanding investigation into “misogynistic” new hire https://bit.ly/3h4Sqm4 “Misogynistic” Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation https://bit.ly/3naaL5c Apple asks staff to return to office three days a week starting in early September https://bit.ly/3yNcUWn Apple employees push back against returning to the office in internal letter https://bit.ly/3BJYSXy Apple delays mandatory return to office until January 2022, citing COVID-19 surge https://bit.ly/3l433H5 Apple places female engineering program manager on administrative leave after tweeting about sexism in the office https://bit.ly/3jNwuO0 Google fires prominent AI ethicist Timnit Gebru https://bit.ly/3toFXhZ Apple Shareholders Show Their Support for Tim Cook https://nyti.ms/3tkAn01 Apple says all US employees now receive equal pay for equal work https://bit.ly/3zSbpYj Apple keeps shutting down employee-run surveys on pay equity -- and labor lawyers say it’s illegal https://bit.ly/3BNa85E Apple says it has pay equity, but an informal employee survey suggests otherwise https://bit.ly/3zSJYh0 Apple just banned a pay equity Slack channel but lets fun dogs channel lie https://bit.ly/3hbiyvB Apple employees are organizing, now under the banner #AppleToo https://bit.ly/3hazJNP Here’s what we know about the Google union so far https://bit.ly/2WWNfNK Google employees push back after mishandled sexual harassment revelations https://bit.ly/3DUVv23 Apple cares about privacy, unless you work at Apple https://www.theverge.com/22648265/apple-employee-privacy-icloud-id Black women say Pinterest created a den of discromination -- despite its image as the nicest company in tech https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/07/03/pinterest-race-bias-black-employees/ Apple ordered to pay California store workers for time spent waiting for bag searches https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/3/21419729/apple-california-pay-workers-class-action-bag-searches Read the transcript here: https://www.theverge.com/e/22423538 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Since the beginning of the pandemic, the demand for microchips has far exceeded supply, causing problems in every industry that relies on computers. And if you’re a Decoder listener, you know that that is every industry. Right now, major automakers have unfinished cars sitting in parking lots waiting for chips to be installed. Game consoles like the PS5 and Xbox Series X are impossible to find. And even things like microwaves and refrigerators are impacted, because they contain simple controller chips.  So we realized it was time to figure out what caused the chip shortage, why that happened, and how we are going to get out of it.  My guest today is Dr. Willy Shih. He’s the professor of management practices at Harvard Business School. He’s an expert on chips and semiconductors — he spent years working at companies like IBM and Silicon Graphics. And he’s also an expert in supply chains — how things go from raw materials to finished products in stores. Willy’s the guy that grocery stores and paper companies called in March 2020 when there was a run on toilet paper. If anyone’s going to explain this thing, it’s going to be Willy. Links: What toilet paper can teach us about supply chains https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihd7XJMzdG4 The latest in the global semiconductor shortage https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/2/22363232/global-semiconductor-chip-shortage-pandemic-consoles-cpus-graphics-cards-cars Ford to build some F-150 trucks without certain parts due to global chip shortage https://techcrunch.com/2021/03/18/ford-to-build-some-f-150-trucks-without-certain-parts-due-to-global-chip-shortage/ Situation regarding semiconductor plant fire and product supply https://www.akm.com/us/en/about-us/news/information/20210122-information/ Samsung forced to halt chip production in Austin due to power outages https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/17/22287054/samsung-chip-production-halted-austin-winter-storm-uri-power-blackouts   About that White House meeting to discuss the semiconductor supply chain https://www.forbes.com/sites/willyshih/2021/04/12/about-that-white-house-meeting-to-discuss-the-semiconductor-supply-chain/?sh=63b7f65b1641   Ford CEO Jim Farley on building the electric F-150 -- and reinventing Ford https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/20/22444294/ford-f150-lightning-pickup-truck-jim-farley-interview   Senate approves billions for US semiconductor manufacturing https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/8/22457293/semiconductor-chip-shortage-funding-frontier-china-competition-act   Intel invests $20 billion into new factories, will produce chips for other companies https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/23/22347250/intel-new-factories-arizona-20-billion-chips-outsourcing-foundry-services-manufacturing   Apple supplier TSMC confirms it’s building an Arizona chip plant https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/14/21259094/apple-tsmc-factory-chips-arizona-a-series   Biden-⁠Harris Administration announces Supply Chain Disruptions Task Force to address short-term supply chain discontinuities https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/06/08/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-supply-chain-disruptions-task-force-to-address-short-term-supply-chain-discontinuities/   Water shortages loom over future semiconductor fabs in Arizona https://www.theverge.com/22628925/water-semiconductor-shortage-arizona-drought Transcript https://www.theverge.com/e/22412413 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks with Doug DeMuro, who reviews cars on YouTube for almost 10 years. Nilay and Doug talk about the economics of YouTube, how Doug feels about the platform, and about the new company he co-founded called Cars and Bids. Read the transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22401912 Decoder is produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams and Andrew Marino. We are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I'm talking to Bryan Salesky, the cofounder and CEO of Argo AI, a startup that's trying to build the tech stack for self-driving cars. Argo just launched a small fleet of robotaxis in Miami and Austin in partnership with Lyft. I wanted to talk to Bryan about his partnership with Lyft, but I also wanted to know if the pandemic accelerated any of his investment or development the way we have seen in other industries. After all, the proposition of having a taxi all to yourself is pretty enticing in the COVID era, and lots of people moving away from offices to work from home might love having a car that gets them to and from a central office a couple days a week. Of course, I also had to ask about 5G. Is 5G enabling any of Argo's current self-driving technology? Does he see 5G as a benefit in the future? His answer might surprise you… unless you're a regular listener of this show. Then it won't surprise you one bit. Read the transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22391888 Decoder is produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams and Andrew Marino. And we are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel is joined by Riana Pfefferkorn and Jennifer King to talk about Apple's new child safety features. Riana and Jen are both researchers at Stanford and between the two of them have expertise in encryption policies and consumer privacy issues. Guest Bio: Riana Pfefferkorn: http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/about/people/riana-pfefferkorn Jennifer King: http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/about/people/jen-king Links: Apple reveals new efforts to fight child abuse imagery: https://www.theverge.com/e/22375762 WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan: https://www.theverge.com/e/22377406 Apple pushes back against child abuse scanning concerns in new FAQ: https://www.theverge.com/e/22380422 Apple's Plan to "Think Different" About Encryption Opens a Backdoor to Your Private Life: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/08/apples-plan-think-different-about-encryption-opens-backdoor-your-private-life Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22381595 Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today’s episode was produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams, and Andrew Marino. And we are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today’s episode I’m talking with Neal Mohan, the chief product officer at YouTube. And there’s a lot to talk about – YouTube is announcing a $100 million fund to begin paying creators who use YouTube Shorts, which is its competitor to TikTok. YouTube remains the default video hosting platform for the entire internet, in a way can feel almost invisible, like it’s a utility, like water, or electricity. And on top of all that, there are YouTubers – that particular kind of influencer at the center of the creator economy – the people who have turned YouTube not only into a career, but multimillion dollar businesses that extend into everything from merch drops to cheeseburger restaurants. When people talk about creators and the creator economy, they’re often just talking about YouTube. YouTube as a whole continues to grow in massive ways – in Google’s last earnings report, YouTube reported 7b in advertising revenue alone, which means it’s a business that is now as big or bigger than Netflix. YouTube is big – just like this conversation. Links: YouTube creators can now get $10,000 per month for making Shorts - https://www.theverge.com/e/22370332 Google sets all-time records as search and YouTube profits soar - https://www.theverge.com/e/22360633 "Me at the Zoo" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNQXAC9IVRw Instagram launches reels, it's attempt to keep you off TikTok - https://www.theverge.com/e/21118158 YouTube launches Capture, a video recording and enhancing app for iOS - https://www.theverge.com/e/3541449 Instagram says its algorithm won’t promote Reels that have a TikTok watermark - https://www.theverge.com/e/22038373 Patreon CEO Jack Conte on why creators can’t depend on platforms - https://www.theverge.com/e/22307696 YouTube may push users to more radical views over time, a new paper argues - https://www.theverge.com/e/20600060 Examining the consumption of radical content on YouTube - https://www.pnas.org/content/118/32/e2101967118 Read the transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22370337 Decoder is produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams and Andrew Marino. And we are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week Nilay Patel talks to Chuck Todd, the political director at NBC News and moderator of Meet The Press, the longest running television show in the country. Seriously: Meet the Press started in 1946, and Chuck is only the 12th moderator the show’s ever had. As streaming upends television, he’s expanding Meet The Press from a single weekly show where Chuck interviews politicians to an entire roster of formats. There’s Meet the Press, Meet The Press Daily on MSNBC, Meet the Press Reports on the Peacock streaming service, and, of course, a Meet the Press podcast. They discussed how streaming and direct distribution has changed TV news, and what the purpose of a show like Meet the Press really is in an environment where politicians can reach audiences directly whenever they want. Read the transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/22358331 Decoder is produced by Creighton DeSimone, Liam James, Alexander Charles Adams, and Andrew Marino, and is edited by Callie Wright. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel encountered the name Blackstone on TikTok last year, just as the pandemic lockdowns were starting. He saw people posting videos smashing burgers and making pancakes outside on a griddle frequently with the caption “I finally got a Blackstone.” 20 minutes ago he hadn’t even heard about this thing, and now he was late to a trend? So he bought one. And hasn’t used his regular grill in over a year. Nilay sat down with the CEO of Blackstone products and inventor of the Blackstone griddle Roger Dahle. They talked about Blackstone’s ability to generate recurring revenue, and how the griddle itself is a platform for a variety of additional products and services, some of which might be made by competitors. And Blackstone has big competitors in Weber, and Cuisinart — so we talked about competition, and branding, and going up against the biggest players in a space, and the creator economy. You know: Decoder stuff. Take a listen. And you can read the transcript here: https://www.theverge.com/e/22347828 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We are back after our week off, and we’ve got a good one today. On this episode I’m talking to Thomas Ingenlath, CEO of Polestar, a new car company with close family ties to Volvo. We talked a lot about what kind of company Polestar is — it’s pretty small, and has the ability to rethink a lot of things about how a car company is organized, while having the ability to fall back on a larger company if needed. We also talked a lot about what makes a car company a car company, at a time when everything about cars seems up for grabs. Transcript here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

While Decoder is on vacation this week, we're sharing an episode of Land of the Giants, a podcast from our friends at Recode and Eater. Land of the Giants is a podcast that explores how the biggest tech companies rose to power, and what they're doing with that power. In this 4-part mini-season, they’re covering the world of restaurant delivery apps and exploring how big tech is transforming the business of food, and the true cost of our convenience.  You can listen to the full season of Land of Giants wherever you find your podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Juul became a sensation — and a sensationally dramatic story. Lauren Etter, author of The Devil's Playbook: Big Tobacco, JUUL, and the Addiction of a New Generation, joins us to explain how a tech startup founded in a Stanford design studio to disrupt the smoking industry upended years of tobacco regulation in the United States, got a new generation of teenagers addicted to nicotine after years of declining teen smoking rates, and eventually found itself valued at 38 billion. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks with Satya Nadella, the CEO and chairman of Microsoft. On Thursday, Microsoft announced Windows 11, which comes with an all-new design, a bunch of new features, and the ability to run Android apps. Nilay asks Nadella about how he thinks about Windows as a platform, what Microsoft’s responsibilities are, and how he thinks the various antitrust bills in Congress will affect Microsoft’s plans for the future. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks with Jack Conte, co-founder and CEO of Patreon, the platform that allows people to pay their favorite creators directly with monthly subscriptions. Nilay and Jack talk about how Patreon’s model as “membership” works, what Patreon’s relationship is to Apple and the app store, and where the overall creator economy is going on the internet. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks with Jahmy Hindman, chief technology office at John Deere, the world’s biggest manufacturer of farming machinery.  Nilay and Jahmy discuss what it means for our farming equipment to be run by computers, and how to fix the problems that arise because of it — like accessing reliable broadband, how the equipment should be upgraded, and who gets to fix it when it breaks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks with managing director of Y Combinator Michael Siebel. YC is one of the most well-known and successful startup incubators in Silicon Valley. Michael is also a co-founder of Justin.tv, known now as Twitch, and he recently joined the board at Reddit after cofounder Alexis Ohanian stepped down and asked the company to replace him with someone who is Black. That means Michael is uniquely suited to talk about a lot of things that I’m really interested in exploring on Decoder: starting and growing tech businesses, finding opportunities for new ideas, the growing creator economy, and making sure the next generation of business leaders doesn’t look exactly the same as the last one. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks with head of global affairs and chief legal officer of Spotify Horacio Gutierrez to help understand why Spotify and so many other app developers are so frustrated with Apple. Horacio recently testified in front of Congress about Apple’s business practices, and just wrote an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal calling Apple a “ruthless bully.” Horacio explains what he sees as the biggest problems with Apple’s behavior, what he would actually do to fix it, and how all of that connects to having more interesting, innovative, and better products in our lives. Nilay also asks Horacio if he sees a connection between how he perceives Apple and how musicians perceive Spotify. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks with Revathi Advaithi, CEO of Flex. Flex is the third largest electronics manufacturing company in the world, making everything from hair dryers to the Mac Pro to autonomous driving systems for electric cars. It can also do everything from simply assembling products, to actually designing and engineering them from scratch.  Revathi and Nilay focus on the global chip shortage, the rise of automation, the future of the manufacturing workforce worldwide, and whether Flex can avoid global politics. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week we have Jim Farley, CEO of Ford Motor Company, to discuss their second big push into consumer EVs with the F-150 Lightning. We wanted to see how Jim sees our relationship to cars changing as they turn into what are fundamentally rolling computers. His answers surprised us — he hinted at one day being able to upgrade the computing systems of a car the same way you might upgrade or replace the engine, or the shocks. As we go through this conversation, we notice how much Jim talks like a tech executive. As more and more things turn into computers, the more problems across the business landscape look like the problems of the computer industry. It's a fascinating shift. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks with Kate Klonick, a law professor at St. John’s University Law School and one of the foremost chroniclers of Facebook’s moderation efforts.  Kate has been researching and studying Facebook’s Oversight Board from its inception: she embedded with the board as it was forming to write a definitive piece for The New Yorker called “Inside the Making of Facebook’s Supreme Court.” Nilay and Kate discuss the Oversight Board’s recent decision to uphold Facebook’s ban on Donald Trump and what the decision means for the future of policy and moderation on Facebook and other social media platforms. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks with Harley Finkelstein, President of Shopify. Shopify makes software that allows businesses of all sizes to set up online stores, and from there it can handle everything from shipping orders to financing loans for expansion. The company went public in 2015, and as online commerce has exploded during the pandemic, it’s been on a tear ever since. Harley talks about competing with the tech giants, Shopify's content moderation policies, and the future of online retail. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Senator Amy Klobuchar sits down with host Nilay Patel to discuss her new book Antitrust: Taking on Monopoly Power from the Gilded Age to the Digital Age and the flurry of antitrust hearings over the past year. Senator Klobuchar serves as chair of the Senate subcommittee on competition policy, antitrust, and consumer rights — and in that role, Senator Klobuchar held a hearing last week focused on the power and control Apple and Google — but especially Apple — wield with their app stores. Where does she think antitrust reform is actually headed and what are the limits? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Since becoming CEO a few years ago, Anjali Sud has changed the nature of Vimeo’s business from indie entertainment streaming platform to a SaaS company offering tools for content creators. And it's paying off. Nilay Patel and Anjali discuss Vimeo’s rapid growth, going public, and what’s next for the company. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks with Chris Milk, founder and CEO of Within, which makes the VR fitness app Supernatural. Chris has been making VR experiences for a long time, but Supernatural feels like his biggest hit yet — an app that makes people go out and buy a VR headset just to use. Chris and Nilay discuss how the company Within takes on music licensing, competition with Peloton, and the platform of virtual reality. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel interviews two experts on different sides of the bitcoin argument: a bitcoin investor and bitcoin skeptic. The investor is Nic Carter. He’s a general partner at Castle Island Ventures, which funds startups that are building on top of the bitcoin infrastructure to make payments more accessible — basically, making sure bitcoin can function like a currency. The skeptic is Steve Hanke. He is a professor of Applied Economics at Johns Hopkins University, senior fellow and director of the Troubled Currencies Project at the Cato Institute, a former member of President Ronald Reagan’s Council of Economic Advisers, and was the president of Toronto Trust Argentina in Buenos Aires when it was the world’s best performing mutual fund in 1995. He has also advised other countries on how to deal with hyperinflation and how to stabilize currencies. Nilay asks them both questions about bitcoin’s place in the market and pushes them on the shakier parts of their arguments. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In a bonus episode of Decoder, Platformer editor and Verge contributing editor Casey Newton talks with Facebook's VP of Global Affairs Nick Clegg about his lengthy Medium post addressing some of the criticisms that Facebook has endured, as well as unveiling some changes the company is making to give users more control over their experience. Host of Decoder Nilay Patel taks with Casey before the interview to discuss why this shift in Facebook's approach to the user experience is important, and what key issues listeners should pay attention to. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks with Tracy Sun, the co-founder and SVP of new markets at Poshmark, a fashion resale company that just went public earlier this year while riding the huge wave of e-commerce growth during the pandemic. Tracy has to manage regular e-commerce issues, like shipping logistics and customer service, as well as influencer economy problems, like burnout and the incessant need to grow follower counts — not to mention the universe of problems that comes with selling fashion, like dealing with fashion labels and brands. But if Poshmark can get it all right, Tracy thinks community is the future of retail. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel sits down with New York Times tech columnist Kevin Roose to discuss the impact of automation on our future — specifically, robotic process automation, or RPA. Kevin's new book, Futureproof: 9 Rules for Humans in the Age of Automation, is out and features a lengthy discussion of RPA, who's using it, who it will affect, and how to think about it as you design your career. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks with Atlassian CEO Scott Farquhar about Australia's Media Bargaining Code, which requires social platforms and search engines to pay news publishers for linking to their work. They also discuss how to run a global company in an increasingly fractured world and why understanding public policy is now key to running a tech company. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay talks with Twitter’s Head of Consumer Product, Keyvon Beykpour about what it took to reset the team towards growth, how he decides what to prioritize, and what the timelines for success look like on different projects. They also talk about moderation, of course. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

An 88-year-old is being charged with a felony after selling ‘jailbroke firesticks’ at a Florida flea market. Why? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Austin Russell, Luminar’s founder and CEO on why he thinks LIDAR is the future of self-driving technology, where he thinks the autonomous vehicle industry is headed, and proving Elon Musk wrong. Let us know what you think: http://theverge.com/survey Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks with CEO of Evil Geniuses about how an esports team makes money, where the industry is headed, and where she sees growth. We want to hear what you think of Decoder! Please fill out this short survey: theverge.com/survey Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

CNBC anchor Jon Fortt unpacks how the GameStop stock story was covered by the media and if technology has the ability to democratize the markets through apps like Robinhood. Fortt also discusses his course ‘The Black Experience in America,’ which looks at race in the US https://www.forttmedia.com/ We want to know what you think of the podcast! Please take our audience survey at theverge.com/survey. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of Decoder, Nilay sits down with Charlton McIlwain, a professor of media, culture, and communications at NYU and the author of Black Software, to talk about Black Lives Matter, Twitter, Online Communities, and Policing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks with venture capitalist Arlan Hamilton. Arlan founded VC fund Backstage Capital in 2015 and focuses on investing in “underestimated founders,” many of whom are people of color, women and LGBTQ. They discuss the importance of representation in tech and business, how the VC world works, and why Arlan is hopeful about the future at Backstage. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Verge's Nilay Patel is joined by Joseph Menn, a cybersecurity reporter at Reuters and author of the new book Cult of the Dead Cow: How the Original Hacking Supergroup Might Just Save the World. Nilay and Joseph talk about a very big problem in US cybersecurity today: the SolarWinds hack. In December, it was reported that a group of hackers, likely from the Russian government, had gotten into SolarWinds, a dominant player in network management software, and then used that access to breach everything from Microsoft to the US government. The story is part of a back-and-forth game of hacking the United States and its rivals that have been escalating for years. Pay attention to how quickly this conversation with Joseph becomes about really big issues like how deeply our military and security agencies should be integrated with private company security. There aren’t a lot of easy answers here, but it’s clear that change is coming with the Biden administration. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks with Marques Brownlee (MKBHD on YouTube) about building a business as a YouTuber, how content creators make money, and how to scale when you are the brand. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Verge's Nilay Patel talks with head of Instagram Adam Mosseri about how to run a creative platform like Instagram at scale while keeping users — and democracy — safe, how much responsibility the platforms have for what their algorithms promote, and, of course, Instagram's products like Reels, Stories, and IGTV. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the aftermath of the pro-Trump attack on the Capitol, many online platforms, including both Twitter and Facebook, banned President Trump. In this week’s episode, Nilay Patel talks with regulation expert and law professor Daphne Keller, about a big problem: how to moderate what happens on the internet. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today’s episode is with Beyond Meat founder and CEO Ethan Brown. Nilay and Ethan discuss how the company is doing since its IPO in 2019 and how they are fairing during the pandemic. The food supply chain has seen significant impact during COVID and there has been an increased demand for plant-based proteins during the pandemic, with meat shortages and more people cooking at home. They also talk about how Beyond Meat is structured, how they are different from other competitors in the market, and what’s next from the company. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Advertising is a huge part of the economy and something we all experience everyday through various mediums. In this episode, Nilay Patel talks with Cadillac CMO Melissa Grady about how advertising has been reinvented by technology — from data-driven insights to new social media platforms to the role of influencers in marketing. They also unpack how modern advertising works and where it's headed in the future.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nilay Patel talks to Chris Best, cofounder and CEO of Substack, the subscription newsletter startup that’s taken the media industry by storm over the past few months. The conversation explores how Substack's business model could potentially impact the media industry, but also dives into the basic questions about running a media company -- how Substack makes money, how it’s going to scale while offering additional services to writers, like legal protection, and, of course, content moderation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On this episode of Decoder, Nilay talks with Shelli Taylor, the CEO of Alamo Drafthouse. Shelli stepped into her new role as CEO during the pandemic. In this conversation, Nilay and Shelli discuss the steps she had to take to get her company back on solid ground — including justifying high fixed costs of expensive lightbulbs — and how the government has failed to manage the pandemic effectively for business owners. They also talk about what it will take to safely reopen theaters and what the future looks like, especially in the streaming age. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On this week’s episode of Decoder Nilay Patel talks to Phil Spencer, the guy in charge of Xbox at Microsoft. They discuss not only the next-generation Xbox and PS5 just arriving in stores now, but how gaming itself has become part of mainstream culture, a trend that has definitely accelerated during the pandemic. We’ve also reached an inflection point for game streaming: Google, Amazon, and Microsoft all have services that allow consumers to play games on any device by streaming them over the internet, kind of like Netflix for games. Is that the future? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On this week’s episode of Decoder, Nilay Patel talks with Sal Khan, the co-founder and CEO of Khan Academy, a nonprofit online learning platform for students in kindergarten through high school. Khan Academy is an organization that exists because of technology. What started with Sal tutoring his niece in math over video using off the shelf cameras and software, has grown into an organization with nearly 20 million users per month, available in 46 languages and used in more than 190 countries. And online learning has gotten even more vital with the pandemic. In this conversation, Nilay and Sal discuss the future of learning, what online education is good at and where it struggles, how Khan Academy is growing, and how Sal’s thinking about handling trickier subjects like history and social studies. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On the first episode of Decoder, Nilay Patel interviews Mark Cuban. Mark is the owner of the Dallas Mavericks, he’s a tech investor, and is on the hit show, Shark Tank. The conversation, recorded as last week’s election results rolled in, covers how interwoven business, technology, and policy are, whether its 5G, or the NBA bubble, or AI, or his investments into healthcare -- if you want to understand the landscape of the future, you have to understand tech, you have to understand business, and you have to understand policy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It may seem like a strange time to launch a podcast about business when the pandemic has frozen so many things in place, but the future is still coming — people are building technology and making policy for it right now. And it’s important to talk to them. This is Decoder with Nilay Patel. New episodes coming November 10th. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

After five years, Kara Swisher signs off as the host of Recode Decode. She and her producer Eric Johnson discuss five of the best moments in the show's 539-episode history; then, she talks with Vox Media CEO Jim Bankoff about the future of Vox as the COVID-19 crisis continues and the media grapples with what it can do to unwind systemic racism; and finally, she answers questions submitted by 10 of her past guests, including Ronan Farrow, Carole Cadwalladr, Anthony Scaramucci, and Stephanie Ruhle. Thank you to all of our guests, listeners, and the dozens of people behind the scenes who have made this show possible. Starting on Monday July 6, we'll bring you hand-picked "Best of Recode Decode" episodes for the rest of the summer. After that, stay subscribed for something new on this feed from Vox Media. Featuring: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large Eric Johnson (@HeyHeyESJ), Recode Decode senior producer Jim Bankoff (@Bankoff), Vox Media CEO More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Season 1 of Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon — and now, on Season 2, Peter Kafka and Rani Molla are examining "the Netflix effect." About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Former Google executive Sridhar Ramaswamy talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his new startup, Neeva, which promises to offer paying subscribers a search engine with no ads and without selling its users' data. Ramaswamy, who worked at Google from 2003 to 2018, talks about how it evolved into an advertising powerhouse, why people should care about the "incredibly personal" details revealed by their search history, and why he believes Neeva can reach a larger-audience than just wealthy privacy-conscious consumers. He also explains how Neeva limits the data it collects, the "big problem" with antitrust dogma in the US, and whether Silicon Valley is changing for the better. Featuring: Sridhar Ramaswamy (@RamaswmySridhar), co-founder, Neeva Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Season 1 of Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon — and now, on Season 2, Peter Kafka and Rani Molla are examining "the Netflix effect." About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Former Patagonia CEO Rose Marcario talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the company's history of activism, the Facebook ad boycott that Patagonia helped start, and what she hopes it will accomplish. Marcario explains how Patagonia chooses which battles to fight, what she thinks of other business leaders who take public stands — such as Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos — and why we need more "good actors" in the corporate world. Plus: Is "compassionate capitalism" a real thing? This interview was recorded as part of the Lesbians Who Tech virtual Pride Summit. Featuring: Rose Marcario, former CEO, Patagonia Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Season 1 of Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon — and now, on Season 2, Peter Kafka and Rani Molla are examining "the Netflix effect." About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Call Your Girlfriend co-host Aminatou Sow talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about upcoming book with Ann Friedman, Big Friendship: How We Keep Each Other Close. Sow discusses "how [she] got bamboozled into getting business-married” to Friedman, why they went to therapy together, and why talking about your friendships with your friends is so important. She also talks about why she refuses to hang out with friends on Zoom, the assumptions we all make about other people's friendships, and what you should do when you and a friend have opposing political views. Featuring: Aminatou Sow (@aminatou), co-author, Big Friendship: How We Keep Each Other Close Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Harvard professor Samantha Power, the former US ambassador the United Nations, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about her 2019 memoir The Education of an Idealist, what idealism looks like now in America, and the Trump administration's deadly mishandling of the coronavirus pandemic — and what she would do differently were she in charge. Power also discusses how the Obama administration responded to the ebola epidemic in 2014, the growing power of tech leaders like Bill Gates, and what Mark Zuckerberg can learn about disinformation from Taiwan. Plus: What the Obama administration got wrong about Big Tech and election security, and the other key international issues the US should focus on now. Featuring: Samantha Power (@samanthajpower), former US ambassador to the United Nations Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Hive authors Barry Lyga and Morgan Baden talk with Recode's Kara Swisher about how they came to write a young adult book about a social media dystopia, based on a cinematic idea from actor Jennifer Beals and producer Tom Jacobson. The 2019 book is set "five minutes in the future," where social media participation is mandated by the government for everyone over 13, which introduces some familiar social issues: The pressure to be perfect when everything is public, and the risk of mob justice when you step out of line. Lyga and Baden also explain what works in YA literature now, their mixed feelings about the power of social media and "cancel culture," and how they would attempt to fix platforms like Twitter and Instagram. Featuring: Barry Lyga (@barrylyga) and Morgan Baden (@MorganBaden), co-authors, The Hive Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Symone Sanders, a senior advisor to Joe Biden and former national press secretary for Bernie Sanders, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the 2020 campaign and her new memoir, No, You Shut Up: Speaking Truth to Power and Reclaiming America. Sanders reflects on her own political journey and explains why she's eager to support Biden this year — and why people who try to cast doubt on her career choices are "infuriating." Plus: What the Biden campaign wants from Facebook, and what advice does she have for protesters? Featuring: Symone Sanders (@SymoneDSanders), senior advisor, Joe Biden Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Basecamp CEO Jason Fried talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the company's new email product, Hey, which he describes as "the most ambitious and stupidest thing we’ve ever done." Fried also discusses how coronavirus proved that offices are not as important as other companies used to say, why Zoom calls "suck," and why Basecamp is charging $99/year for a personal Hey account, Plus: Why Uber is a "shitty business," why Fried doesn't want any public CEO's job, and the state of tech regulation. Featuring: Jason Fried (@jasonfried), CEO, Basecamp Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Katie Couric, the former host of the Today Show and anchor of the CBS Evening News, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about why the current moment of political protest feels unlike anything that came before; the fine line between objectivity and advocacy in journalism; and her upcoming memoir, Unexpected. Couric also discusses the battle over Confederate history and art in the south, America's divided news diet, and what she thought of the Apple TV+ series The Morning Show. Plus: Her famous interview with Sarah Palin in 2008, and what she would ask Donald Trump if he sat with her for a 1:1 interview. Featuring: Katie Couric (@katiecouric), host, Next Question with Katie Couric Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

American historian and New Yorker staff writer Jill Lepore talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about her new podcast, The Last Archive, which investigates "who killed truth?" in the style of a true-crime show. Lepore discusses why the protests against systemic police violence represent America "at our very best," but explains why the two main competing theories of American history are both wrong — and how it should be taught and studied instead. She also talks about the history of technologies, from photography to social media, that have been the subject of a political "fantasy" and previews her upcoming book about Simulmatics, "the Cambridge Analytica of the Cold War." Plus: What would Lepore do if she were a historian in the future trying to understand 2020? Featuring: Jill Lepore, professor of American history at Harvard University and host, The Last Archive Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Journalist and author Bart Gellman talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his newest book, Dark Mirror: Edward Snowden and the American Surveillance State. Gellman discusses how he got connected with Snowden ahead of his whistleblowing disclosures in 2013; how he reacted to the staggering size of the US government's digital surveillance apparatus; and the different waves of impact of the Snowden leaks on the government and tech industry. He also talks about why people should still be concerned about the amount of data the tech industry has amassed, and why debating whether Snowden is a traitor is a "silly" distraction. Featuring: Bart Gellman (@bartongellman), author, Dark Mirror: Edward Snowden and the American Surveillance State Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Recode's Kara Swisher talks with three guests about how to take care of your mind, body, and spirit while in quarantine. Headspace co-founder Andy Puddicombe discusses the challenges of getting people to meditate, how to make your sleep more restful, and how to feel connected to loved ones you can't see right now; Peloton's head instructor Robin Arzon talks about the impact of COVID-19 on the company's business, why you should focus on what you can control when exercising, and the future of working out at home; and finally, former Democratic presidential candidate Marianne Williamson talks about the "great reckoning" facing America and why healing ourselves and healing the country are part of the same mission. Featuring: Andy Puddicombe (@andypuddicombe), co-founder, Headspace Robin Arzon (@RobinNYC), head instructor and VP of fitness programming, Peloton Marianne Williamson (@marwilliamson), spiritual thought leader and bestselling author Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Harvard Business School professor Frances Frei talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the new book she wrote with her wife Anne Morriss, Unleashed: The Unapologetic Leader's Guide to Empowering Everyone Around You. Frei — who has previously worked with Uber, WeWork, and Riot Games to address culture crises — discusses what good leadership today looks like, the unfair treatment of women and people of color in business, and why it's a mistake to chase "balance" or "equal treatment." She also reflects on her work with Uber and WeWork, calling the former a "terrific success," and explains the key difference between Uber's former CEO Travis Kalanick and WeWork's former chief Adam Neumann. Plus: Why Amazon's market dominance is threatened by its poor treatment of workers. Featuring: Frances Frei, co-author, Unleashed: The Unapologetic Leader's Guide to Empowering Everyone Around You Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lemonade CEO and co-founder Daniel Schreiber talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about what happens to an insurance in a crisis like COVID-19, how some of the money from Lemonade customers' premiums will be allocated to coronavirus relief, and whether the insurance industry can be fully automated. Schreiber also talks about Lemonade's decision to be a public benefit corporation, why that doesn't make them "do-gooders," and why he strives to be more like Ulysses from the Odyssey and not like Mark Zuckerberg from Facebook. Featuring: Daniel Schreiber, CEO, Lemonade Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

New York Times Magazine writer-at-large Jon Mooallem talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his newest book, This Is Chance!: The Shaking of an All-American City, A Voice That Held It Together. It tells the story of a 9.2-magnitude earthquake that struck Anchorage, Alaska in 1964 and how a part-time radio reporter named Genie Chance held her community together. Mooallem recounts how he got his hands on the recordings of Chance's broadcasts and reported out the full story of the disaster, which had been largely forgotten outside Alaska; he also compares Anchorage's recovery from the earthquake to what people around the world are doing now in response to COVID-19. Plus: How has storytelling changed over the course of Mooallem's career? Featuring: Jon Mooallem (@jmooallem), author, This Is Chance! Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Phil Howard, the Oxford Internet Institute director and author of Lie Machines, and Emily Bell, the director of Columbia University's Tow Center for Digital Journalism, talk with Recode's Kara Swisher about the state of disinformation and propaganda in the coronavirus pandemic and how what we're hearing this year compares to the state-organized propaganda that infected elections in 2016. They explain some of the most pervasive conspiracy theories and campaigns — including the untruthful documentary-style movie "Plandemic," how Bill Gates replaced George Soros as the leading right-wing boogeyman, and President Trump's amorphous "Obamagate" insinuations. Bell and Howard also talk about why these lies are spreading so effectively, the celebrities and influencers that are helping them along, and how the big tech platforms are faring in the face of this challenge. Plus: How Facebook built "misinformation factories" in its apps. Featuring: Emily Bell (@emilybell), director, Tow Center for Digital Journalism at Columbia's Graduate School of Journalism Phil Howard (@pnhoward), director, Oxford Internet Institute and author, Lie Machines. Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about Uber's evolving response to the COVID-19 pandemic, how it's preparing for the world to re-open, and the one segment of the company that is thriving right now — its food delivery business, UberEats. Khosrowshahi also discusses the company's recent 6700-person layoffs, the blowback UberEats has received for the fees it imposes on restaurant owners, and the “rumors” that it will acquire food delivery rival GrubHub, and why that wouldn't be a monopoly. Plus: How are Uber's relations with local and federal governments, and what would Khosrowshahi do if he were still the CEO of a travel company like Expedia? Featuring: Dara Khosrowshahi (@dkhos), CEO, Uber Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky returns to Recode Decode to talk with Kara Swisher about how the company is "going back to [its] roots" after the COVID-19 pandemic delayed its IPO; the future of travel and hospitality in a world with way fewer people taking airplanes; and how Airbnb tried to "lead by example" in its severance payments and benefits to laid-off employees. Chesky also talks about the delay of projects such as a previously-announced flight booking program, why fewer people will work from only one city when their lives get back to normal, and why raising $2 billion in debt was the right move for the company when everything was on fire. Plus: He tries to convince Kara that "Pittsburgh is the new Paris." Featuring: Brian Chesky (@bchesky), CEO, Airbnb Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Former Clinton and Obama economic advisor Gene Sperling talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his latest book, Economic Dignity, and how the COVID-19 pandemic is changing attitudes toward essential labor and compensation. He predicts that unemployment could top 10 percent for several years to come, and evaluates the federal government's response to the crisis so far, explaining what he would tell President Trump if he were still in the White House today. Sperling also talks about the need for laws to protect gig workers, why the Obama administration didn't stop Big Tech from growing in size and power when it had the chance, and the need for antitrust action against companies like Facebook. Featuring: Gene Sperling (@genebsperling), author, Economic Dignity Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Recode's Kara Swisher talks with the Verge's Casey Newton and her older son, Louie Swisher, about how the COVID-19 pandemic and quarantine has affected their tech habits. They also discuss Louie's remote final months of high school, the future of video conferencing, and the growing power of tech giants such as Facebook and Amazon. Newton also talks about his reporting on Facebook moderators who developed PTSD on the job, which led to a recent $52 million settlement. Plus: What is everyone watching and playing to pass the time, and are movie theaters dead? Featuring: Casey Newton (@CaseyNewton), tech reporter at The Verge and writer of The Interface Louie Swisher Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Historian and bestselling author Jon Meacham talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his new podcast Hope Through History, which shows how Americans endured crises such as the Great Depression and the 1918 flu pandemic and came out the other side as a stronger nation. Meacham says there's no guarantee that the coronavirus pandemic will be resolved in the same way as the moments he has studied, but that it's a mistake to imagine that the past was a simpler "fairy tale" time without comparable struggles. He also talks about the politicization of our current crisis, how it has accelerated other problems in our society, and what a Joe Biden victory in November would mean for the future of the country. Plus: What is Meacham writing next, and what past presidency most resembles our own? (It's not Andrew Jackson's.) Featuring: Jon Meacham (@jmeacham), host, Hope Through History Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Model and dietitian Maye Musk (the mother of Tesla/SpaceX CEO Elon Musk, entrepreneur Kimbal Musk, and filmmaker Tosca Musk) talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about her recent memoir, A Woman Makes a Plan: Advice for a Lifetime of Adventure, Beauty, and Success. Musk also discusses ageism in modeling, her aversion to the "weird diets" that have caught on in Silicon Valley, and how she was a "pillar" to her three entrepreneurial kids. Plus: Does she want to go to Mars with Elon? (Note: This interview was recorded in late March.) >> Start your free trial of New York Magazine today - go to nymag.com/decode Featuring: Maye Musk (@mayemusk), author, A Woman Makes a Plan: Advice for a Lifetime of Adventure, Beauty, and Success Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Former Republican Congressman Joe Walsh talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about why he tried to primary Donald Trump earlier this year, how the Republican Party became a "cult," and his recent book, F*ck Silence: Calling Trump Out for the Cultish, Moronic, Authoritarian Con Man He Is. Walsh, who also hosts a podcast called F*ck Silence, says the coronavirus crisis is finally starting to convince people who don't pay attention to politics that they should vote against President Trump in November, and that the centrality of Trump to the election means Joe Biden's campaign is fairly irrelevant. He also predicts that a conservative third party led by anti-Trump former Republicans is inevitable, and says Biden's nominee for Vice President must be someone who's already well-known to voters. >> Start your free trial of New York Magazine today - go to nymag.com/decode Featuring: Joe Walsh (@WalshFreedom), author, F*ck Silence: Calling Trump Out for the Cultish, Moronic, Authoritarian Con Man He Is Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

NYU Professor and Pivot co-host Scott Galloway returns to Recode Decode to talk about his new show on Vice TV, No Mercy, No Malice with Professor Scott Galloway. He and Recode's Kara Swisher also talk about how they started working together, why he decided to branch out into podcasting and then TV, and the "most disruptable" industries that young people should be going into right now — healthcare and higher education. Galloway explains what he would do if he were the provost of a major university like NYU, including a "Marshall Plan" for increasing student enrollment and the abolition of tenure for professors because "everybody else has to work for a living." Plus: How coronavirus will change cities, retail, restaurants, and more, and which big tech companies should be broken up. >> Start your free trial of New York Magazine today - go to nymag.com/decode Featuring: Scott Galloway (@profgalloway), Pivot co-host and host of No Mercy, No Malice with Professor Scott Galloway Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Political historian Alexis Coe talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about her latest book, You Never Forget Your First: A Biography of George Washington, which seeks to break the staid formula by which all other books about America's first president have been written. Coe says she is the only female historian to write a book about Washington, and discovered that other biographies written by white men have popularized sexist untruths about his single mother, while obscuring some crucial details about Washington himself and distorting his track record as a slaver. She also talks about her previous book, Alice + Freda Forever: A Murder in Memphis, why we still need libraries, and how history as a profession is changing at a time when we may know "too much" about our leaders. Featuring: Alexis Coe (@alexiscoe), author, You Never Forget Your First: A Biography of George Washington Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

BuzzFeed News reporter Alex Kantrowitz talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his new book, Always Day One: How The Tech Titans Plan To Stay On Top Forever. He discusses how coronavirus may change consumers’ relationship with tech giants, the opportunity for a new major labor movement, and how the companies he profiled in the book — including Amazon, Apple, and Facebook — keep from getting out-innovated. Kantrowitz says education, and not automation, is the larger problem for the long-term future of work, and argues that TikTok is one of the only places young people are learning to be creative; he also explains why Apple is stuck in a similar rut now to the one Microsoft was in under Steve Ballmer. Plus: Can you steal from Amazon's cashier-less grocery story? Featuring: Alex Kantrowitz (@Kantrowitz), author, Always Day One: How The Tech Titans Plan To Stay On Top Forever Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

TV producer Ryan Murphy — who created or produced shows like Glee, 911, and American Horror Story — talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his new Netflix miniseries, Hollywood, which blends real history with fictional characters to imagine a more inclusive "what-if" version of the postwar film business. Murphy explains how shows like Glee and Modern Family encouraged LGBT acceptance, why he doesn't use Twitter anymore, and his mega-deal with Netflix, which was reported to be worth up to $300 million. Plus: The differences between working for Netflix vs. Fox, how covid-19 has changed entertainment, and Murphy and Swisher's roadtrip to New York City in the 80s. Featuring: Ryan Murphy (@mrrpmurphy on Instagram), co-creator and executive producer, Hollywood Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bulletproof founder and former CEO Dave Asprey talks about the invention and current state of “biohacking," how his blog for “bulletproof executives” grew into a global lifestyle, and the most important ways to track and improve one’s life. Asprey explains how intermittent fasting works — but may not be right for everyone seven days a week — and says that quality of sleep is more important than quantity: Getting 8 hours of sleep every night is “garbage science,” he claims. He also discusses cryotherapy, meditation, the cutting edge of aging and brain research, and his goal of living to be 180 years old. Featuring: Dave Asprey (@bulletproofexec), founder and former CEO, Bulletproof Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

New York Times Magazine reporter Nikole Hannah-Jones talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about how the coronavirus pandemic is magnifying inequality in the US, and our historical failure to treat essential workers — from meat-packing plants to checkout counters to delivery drivers — with the respect and protection they deserve. Hannah-Jones, who created the Times' ongoing series about the legacy of slavery, The 1619 Project, also talks about the technology gap and current inequalities in pre-college education, and says the crisis is also an opportunity to reset the deeply unjust gig economy. Plus: Why are black and Latinx Americans dying of coronavirus at much higher rates than their white and Asian peers? Featuring: Nikole Hannah-Jones (@nhannahjones), reporter, New York Times Magazine Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bestselling author and Gaslit Nation co-host Sarah Kendzior talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about her new book, Hiding in Plain Sight: The Invention of Donald Trump and the Erosion of America; what pundits get wrong about propaganda and election interference; and the “insane way” journalists treat Donald Trump’s Twitter bully pulpit. In the new book and her previous one, The View From Flyover Country, Kendzior argues that Trump's rise to the presidency was no accident — rather, it was the result of decades of socioeconomic trends, including income inequality, "disaster capitalism," and the growth of the internet. She also talks about why Trump's base isn't as big as you think it is, and whether there's reason for hope and optimism right now. Featuring: Sarah Kendzior (@sarahkendzior), author, Hiding in Plain Sight: The Invention of Donald Trump and the Erosion of America Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bestselling author, investor, and podcaster Tim Ferriss talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his advice for people coping with the coronavirus quarantine, which includes giving yourself slack for being unproductive, afraid, and fatigued; the crucial difference between fast decisions and rushed ones; and why the pandemic crisis is a "natural culling of the herd" for businesses in a "bloated capitalist system" that have no resilience. Ferriss also discusses what he's starting to invest in after taking a five-year break, why he's holding onto his early stake in Uber, and why he's been funding research into psychedelic drugs at Imperial College London and Johns Hopkins Medicine. Plus: How being a pessimist and keeping expectations low can lead to greater happiness. Previously: Listen to Tim's earlier appearance on Recode Decode, from January 2017. Featuring: Tim Ferriss (@tferriss), host, The Tim Ferriss Show Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Investor, Dallas Mavericks owner, and Shark Tank co-host Mark Cuban talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about what capitalism and entrepreneurship looks like in a post-coronavirus world; whether he's planning to run for political office, and what his platform would be if he did; and what it will take for professional sports to come back. Cuban, who was recently announced as a member of President Trump's panel to re-open the economy, says the government hasn't done enough yet for small businesses and explains why "America 2.0" will require putting more money in the hands of workers — in good times and bad — and much more investment in technology. Plus: What companies would he create now if he were a young entrepreneur? Featuring: Mark Cuban (@mcuban), investor and entrepreneur Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

San Francisco Mayor London Breed talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about why she was one of the first local leaders in the US to act on the spread of covid-19, how she thinks about the slow and dishonest response from President Trump, and what long-term recovery will look like for SF and beyond. Breed also discusses why sheltering the city's homeless population in vacant hotels is harder and more complicated than it seems, what the tech sector can do to be part of the solution, and when she expects the crisis to be "over." Plus: Does she want to run for higher office? Featuring: London Breed (@londonbreed), mayor, San Francisco Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Quibi founder Jeffrey Katzenberg talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the first week of the short-form video app — which was intended for on-the-go consumers, but still racked up 1.7 million downloads, even though most of the world is currently staying at home. Katzenberg makes the case for short video episodes as a logical next step for entertainment, and explains how the economics of producing shows such as Dishmantled and Chrissy's Court compares to Netflix, traditional TV and YouTube. He also explains why he's not worried about skepticism from TV purists, why he desperately wanted former eBay and HP CEO Meg Whitman to lead Quibi, and how the platform is attracting top talent from across Hollywood and the broader entertainment business to make shows. Plus: Why is Quibi trading lawsuits with an Israeli firm called Eko, and is Katzenberg bullish on Hollywood right now? Featuring: Jeffrey Katzenberg, founder, Quibi Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bloomberg technology reporter Sarah Frier talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about her new book, No Filter: The Inside Story of Instagram. Frier discusses how co-founders Mike Systrom and Danny Krieger met, why they sold Instagram to Facebook and not Twitter, and why Systrom and Krieger left in 2018. She also talks about how they and Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg clashed over growth and power, how Instagram changes us psychologically, and the looming "reckoning" it faces as TikTok becomes more popular. Plus: How do current and former Instagram employees feel about the company's shift towards becoming a commerce platform? Featuring: Sarah Frier (@sarahfrier), author, No Filter: The Inside Story of Instagram Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Organizational psychologist Adam Grant, the author of "Originals" and host of the podcast "WorkLife," talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the benefits of working from home, and how work will change during the COVID-19 quarantine — and after. Grant also discusses burnout, loneliness, collaboration, procrastination, and why employees don’t need to be micromanaged. Plus: Has online communication made us worse at trusting each other? Featuring: Adam Grant (@AdamMGrant), host of WorkLife and professor at University of Pennsylvania Wharton School Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Historian Niall Ferguson, the author of bestselling books such as The Ascent of Money and The Square and the Tower, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his new PBS series, Networld, which explores the history and science of networks. He discusses why it's important to understand networks, and how they can become the sources of revolutions; the economic implications of misinformation about coronavirus, which has been exacerbated by lax tech regulation; and why it's dangerous to invite Silicon Valley to track private individuals even more closely. "We actually are a form of China already," Ferguson says. "It’s just that the data are in the hands of Mark Zuckerberg and his counterparts at Google." Plus: How the US is doing the worst combination of things in response to coronavirus: "Half-assed social distancing" while still shutting down the economy. Featuring: Niall Ferguson (@nfergus), host, Networld, and author, The Square and the Tower Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Instagram co-founder and former CEO Kevin Systrom talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the data analysis he has conducted and publicized about the global spread of coronavirus, and what it tells us the future looks like. He says he applied the same data-minded approach to the virus that he did while at Instagram because "data is data," and says the rapid word of mouth spread of "viral" technology can help us understand what happens when communities and governments don't act to prevent an outbreak. Systrom also talks about people's natural inclination to doubt data, and says the numbers suggest that new cases of covid-19 will peak in mid-May. Plus: Why he hopes his data model is wrong, and what he's been doing since he and fellow Instagram co-founder Mike Krieger left Facebook in 2018. Featuring: Kevin Systrom (@kevin), Instagram co-founder and former CEO Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Former Obama advisor David Plouffe — who since leaving the White House has worked with Uber, the Chan-Zuckerberg Initiative, and Acronym — talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his new book, A Citizen's Guide to Beating Donald Trump. He talks about how the coronavirus pandemic affects the 2020 election and popular perception of Trump and Joe Biden; the disastrous Iowa caucus how Democrats can get better at technology; and what regular people can do now if they want Trump to lose in November, including engaging relatives in political arguments on Facebook. Plouffe also discusses who Biden should pick as his VP nominee, how he thinks about Facebook in the aftermath of the 2016 election, and why we need every state to embrace vote-by-mail this year, and online voting in future years. Plus: What he likes and doesn't like about the Silicon Valley mentality. Featuring: David Plouffe (@davidplouffe), author, A Citizen's Guide to Beating Donald Trump Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Slack CEO Stewart Butterfield talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about how coronavirus changed everything for Slack and its customers, the sudden transition to "work from home" across the country, and how the company is handling a surge in usage at the same time that other plans and resources are being constrained. Butterfield also discusses Slack's recent redesign, how communication inside organizations has evolved over the years, and the state of innovation in Silicon Valley and the US as a whole. Plus: What would he do if he weren't running Slack? Featuring: Stewart Butterfield (@stewart), CEO, Slack Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

VaynerMedia CEO Gary Vaynerchuk talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the impact of covid-19 on entrepreneurship, why he stopped investing in tech companies two years ago, and how the pandemic could have a silver lining — separating the winners from the losers. Vaynerchuk also talks about why tech and Fortune 500 businesses will have an easier time weathering the crisis than restaurants and other small businesses; his own rise to fame as a "web 2.0" entrepreneur and how he's changing his own M.O. in response to coronavirus; and what people get wrong when they assume he's just a "loud Jersey boy" dealing advice on Instagram. Plus: Why TikTok and LinkedIn are the most important platforms for organic promotion right now, and why Facebook and Fox News aren't as dangerous as their critics claim. Featuring: Gary Vaynerchuk (@garyvee), CEO, VaynerMedia Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dr. Deepak Chopra talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about how to cope with the global threat posed by coronavirus, the parallel "pandemic of panic," and how to not be overwhelmed by fear and anxiety. Comparing it to past pandemics and wars, he says the covid-19 outbreak is an invitation to stop denying our shared humanity and finally recognize our power to use our creativity to save ourselves. Chopra also discusses his AI project Digital Deepak, what a selfie can tell you about your stress level, and how he's been received in Silicon Valley. Plus: The insane narcissism of biohackers who are trying to "cure" death, and the potential of mind-altering substances like CBD. Featuring: Deepak Chopra (@deepakchopra), author, Metahuman Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Social Capital CEO Chamath Palihapitiya talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about how long it will take to recover from the coronavirus crisis, its impact on startups, and how the US government should and will react — including by tracking individuals via their technology and repatriating cash from tech companies like Apple. Palihapitiya says businesses should make sure they have at least 36 months worth of cash on hand to weather this recession and its slow recovery period and predicts the US will need to devote an entire year's GDP to combat covid-19. He criticizes the corporate "shenanigans" that will make economic recovery harder says he's done investing for at least nine months, because anyone trying to do deals now will be "decapitated." Plus: What we can all learn right now from the histories of the Great Depression and the 2008 financial crisis, and which industries will come out of this crisis stronger than before? Previously: Palihapitiya last appeared on Recode Decode in March 2019: "People in Silicon Valley are deeply unhappy" Featuring: Chamath Palihapitiya (@chamath), CEO of Social Capital Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ben Hubbard, the Beirut bureau chief for the New York Times, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his new book, MBS: The Rise to Power of Mohammed Bin Salman. Hubbard explains how he started writing about Saudi Arabia and its crown prince, MBS's unexpected rise to power, and the recent international incidents that have made him more notorious in the west: The murder of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi and the hacking of Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos's phone. He also discusses the Saudi government's relationship with the Trump administration, how bin Salman has resisted political liberalization, and how he has used armies of bots on Twitter to distract critics online. Plus: Is there any meaningful dissent within Saudi Arabia that could unseat MBS? Featuring: Ben Hubbard (@nytben), author, MBS: The Rise to Power of Mohammed Bin Salman Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Former 2020 presidential candidate Andrew Yang talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the growing popularity of government programs to send money directly to people affected by the coronavirus pandemic. His own organization t hat advocates for universal basic income, Humanity Forward, plans to start cutting checks to regular Americans soon, starting with the working poor in New York City's Bronx borough and workers who depend on tips to make ends meet. Yang also says he plans to run for office again in the future, discusses what role he'd like to a fill in a hypothetical Joe Biden administration, and predicts that President Trump's proposed stimulus plan — which would send $500 billion to Americans over two months — could turn into a longer-term policy that resembles UBI. Plus: How coronavirus revealed the "brutal truth" about capitalism and labor in the modern economy. Previously: Listen to Kara's last interview with Yang, from July 2019. Featuring: Andrew Yang, (@andrewyang), founder of Humanity Forward Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Recode's Kara Swisher talks with three of the brains behind the new HBO documentary After Truth: Disinformation and the Cost of Fake News: Director Andrew Rossi, who previously directed Page One: Inside the New York Times; executive producer Brian Stelter, who hosts Reliable Sources on CNN; and co-producer Adam McGill. They discuss how disinformation about everything from coronavirus to #BlackLivesMatter spreads online, the victims of the Pizzagate and Seth Rich conspiracy theories, and why Russian election attackers supported both Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. The trio also talks about the corruption of the term "fake news," the effect of Alex Jones being kicked off major online platforms, and what rights people like Hillary Clinton have when they're the subject of an online disinformation campaign. After Truth debuts on March 19 at 9:00 p.m. on HBO, and on-demand on March 20. Featuring: Andrew Rossi (@a_rossi), director, After Truth: Disinformation and the Cost of Fake News Brian Stelter (@brianstelter), executive producer, After Truth: Disinformation and the Cost of Fake News Adam McGill (@NotTheATVRider), co-producer, After Truth: Disinformation and the Cost of Fake News Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Maggie Haberman, the White House correspondent for the New York Times, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about how the rest of the country has bypassed Trump's failure to lead on the coronavirus outbreak; his exposure to COVID-19 at Mar-a-Lago and refusal to self-quarantine; and the toxic cocktail of practices in his administration: Infighting, tiptoeing, and sucking up. She also discusses CDC director Anthony Fauci's "unimpeachable" credibility vs. President Trump's trust problem, how Vice President Pence is doing at the helm of the coronavirus task force, and how this period could have a bigger impact on Trump's re-election chances than previous crises. Plus: Who is actually running things at the White House right now, and can Trump operate his campaign without mass rallies? Featuring: Maggie Haberman (@maggienyt), White House correspondent, New York Times Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Epidemic co-host Ron Klain, who led the White House's ebola response under President Obama, talks to Recode's Kara Swisher about how the COVID-19 outbreak will strain America's healthcare system; how President Trump downplayed the crisis, rattling public confidence and delaying the country's response; and the way people who work in the gig economy — including Uber drivers and food delivery workers — will be especially hurt by the situation. He also discusses the logic behind travel bans and limits of their efficacy, why it's impossible for the US to completely cut itself off from China, and what Trump didn't say in his Oval Office address, but should have. Klain, an adviser and former chief of staff to Joe Biden, also talks about the ex-vice president's surprisingly successful presidential campaign and how it's reckoning with Biden's history of verbal flubs. Featuring: Ron Klain (@RonaldKlain), former White House "ebola czar" and co-host, Epidemic Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dr. Lloyd Minor, the dean of Stanford University's School of Medicine, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the novel coronavirus outbreak and his new book, "Discovering Precision Health: Predict, Prevent, and Cure to Advance Health and Well-Being." Minor explains how Stanford has prepared for an event like COVID-19, how the virus spreads, and why we should be concerned, but not panicked. He also discusses the need to take the individualized level of care most sick people in the US receive and apply it to everyone in the healthcare system, including healthy people; why everyone in America should have some form of health insurance; and how technology is changing the study of practice and medicine. Plus: What a smart mirror could tell you about your health, and the privacy implications of collecting individualized medical data about the world. Featuring: Lloyd Minor, dean, Stanford University School of Medicine (@StanfordMed) Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Stanford Law School professor Mark Lemley talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about Silicon Valley's obsession with startups getting an "exit" — usually an acquisition by one of the tech giants — and why that trend is suffocating innovation. Lemley explains the decline of IPOs and antitrust scrutiny in America, why today’s tech monopolies are especially hard to break, and how he thinks we should fix this broken system. He also discusses emerging legal issues in tech, including space, robotics and autonomous cars. Plus: What happens to companies that spurn acquisitions and remain independent, and is it possible for an acquired company to stay innovative inside a megacorp like Google or Facebook? Featuring: Mark Lemley (@marklemley), professor at Stanford Law School and director of its Program in Law, Science, and Technology Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Zoox CEO Aicha Evans and CTO Jesse Levinson talk with Recode's Kara Swisher about their development of a fully autonomous robo-taxi, which will be designed for multiple passengers to share and is planned to hit public roads before the end of 2021. They discuss how Evans was persuaded to come to the self-driving company from Intel after the departure of Levinson's co-founder and the company's original CEO, Tim Kentley-Klay; how Zoox’s car compares to Tesla's "autopilot" feature; and why they intentionally designed it to avoid "the Uber Pool problem." Plus: Is the nearly $1 billion Zoox has raised enough to compete in the rapidly changing auto industry? Featuring: Aicha Evans (@aicha2evans), CEO, Zoox Jesse Levinson, CTO and co-founder, Zoox Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Pod Save America co-host and former Obama advisor Dan Pfeiffer talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his new book, Un-Trumping America: A Plan to Make America a Democracy Again, why Bernie Sanders owes a lot to Michael Bloomberg, and why Trump is the new normal for the right wing. In the new book, Pfeiffer explains how Democrats can defeat President Trump at the ballot box in November, but says doing that isn't enough because of what the broader Republican Party has become. Plus: Why the Obama administration didn't act on Big Tech. Featuring: Dan Pfeiffer, co-host of Pod Save America and author, Un-Trumping America: A Plan to Make America a Democracy Again Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Inside CEO and This Week in Startups host Jason Calacanis talks with Kara Swisher about the future of Uber after its troubled IPO, why one of the tech giants should buy Tesla, and Jeff Bezos' Achilles heel: His lack of generosity. Calacanis, who was an early investor in Uber, also talks about his objections to the current state of tech journalism and punditry, the end of SoftBank’s “free money party," and why Tim Cook doesn’t have the chutzpah to take Apple into the future. Plus: Why the US should ban TikTok, even if the Chinese-owned mobile app spins off an American-run unit. Featuring: Jason Calacanis (@Jason), CEO and co-founder, Inside Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

New York Times reporter Conor Dougherty talks with Recode’s Kara Swisher about his new book, Golden Gates: Fighting For Housing in America. He talks about why San Francisco’s housing crisis is the “worst version of something every city has,” the resentment created by tech companies’ buses for their workers, and how the city was painted “gentrification grey.” Dougherty also explains why knowledge workers and service workers have to be next to each other in cities; why making brand-new neighborhoods in old industrial areas doesn’t work; and the defeat of SB50, which would have allowed more housing near public transit in the SF Bay Area. Plus: Why construction needs to become less artisanal, and why President Trump is partly right to allege that California has regulated itself into peril. Featuring: Conor Dougherty (@ConorDougherty), author, Golden Gates: Fighting For Housing in America Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Univision anchor Jorge Ramos talks with Recode’s Kara Swisher about how much of the Latino vote President Trump might get in 2020, why Bernie Sanders’ comments about Fidel Castro might cost him dearly in a general election, and why it’s important that journalists practice contrapoder — being on the other side of power. Ramos has publicly clashed with Trump, who published his phone number on Instagram after Ramos sent him a letter during the campaign; he calls for others in the media to stand up to Trump, and says that there are some scenarios where being neutral to all parties is an abrogation of duty. Plus: How should tech giants be regulated, and would that regulation hurt good political discourse? This interview was recorded in front of a live audience at the Knight Media Forum in Miami, Florida. Click here to read a full transcript of the conversation. Featuring: Jorge Ramos (@jorgeramosnews), journalist and anchor, Univision Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Technology journalist and Wired editor-at-large Steven Levy talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his latest book, Facebook: The Inside Story, for which he obtained years of direct access to CEO Mark Zuckerberg and COO Sheryl Sandberg. Levy discusses how he got that access, how Zuckerberg has changed (or hasn't) over time, and whether he, Sandberg, and the company at large understand the damage that Facebook has caused. Plus: Why Zuckerberg destroyed his old diaries, how he was influenced by Bill Gates, and what will happen to the company next now that it is under more scrutiny than ever. Featuring: Steven Levy (@StevenLevy), author, Facebook: The Inside Story Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Authors Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler talk with Recode's Kara Swisher about their latest book together, The Future Is Faster Than You Think: How Converging Technologies Are Disrupting Business, Industries, and Our Lives. They explain why the future is getting harder to predict and how "exponential technologies" — including robotics, AI, biotechnology, AR/VR, and quantum computing — will change everything from education to old age. Diamandis and Kotler also talk about the importance of having a hopeful vision of the future, in spite of the negative facets of technology, such as addiction and loss of privacy. Plus: Why autonomous cars will "reboot the sex industry." Featuring: Peter Diamandis (@PeterDiamandis), XPRIZE founder and co-author, The Future Is Faster Than You Think Steven Kotler (@steven_kotler), Flow Research Collective executive director and co-author, The Future Is Faster Than You Think Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Caleb Scharf, the director of Astrobiology at Columbia University, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the under=discussed dangers humans would face in space and the rise of private space exploration, as championed by billionaires such as Elon Musk and Richard Branson. Scharf wrote a piece for Scientific American earlier this year, "Death on Mars." about the hazards of the Martian environment for humans, and explains what we know — and don't know — about how human explorers might be able to survive. Plus: Is space tourism actually a good idea? Featuring: Caleb Scharf (@caleb_scharf), director of astrobiology, Columbia University Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Corey Johnson, the Speaker of the New York City Council and an candidate in the 2021 mayoral race, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his planned expansion of bike, bus, and pedestrian lanes across the city, which will come at the expense of street parking; how NYC has evolved over time, sometimes in spite of popular opinion; and the regulatory mistakes the city has made in dealing with Uber and Lyft. He also talks about how he came out of the closet with the help of a pioneering LGBT website, the potential impact of autonomous cars, and how New York can attract tech investment without giving away Amazon HQ2-style subsidies. Plus: What is it really like to be a politician in the social media era? Featuring: Corey Johnson (@coreyinnyc), speaker, New York City Council Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

David Kaye, the special rapporteur for freedom of opinion and expression at the United Nations, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the hacking of Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos' phone by the Saudi Arabian government; why it’s easier than ever for governments to suppress information spread by journalists and dissidents; and the inherent danger of internet companies and governments collecting massive amounts of data about us. He also talks about how the UN responded to the murder of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi in 2018 and why "repression of the mind” can lead to massive human rights abuses like the Holocaust. Click here to read a full transcript of this interview. Featuring: David Kaye (@davidakaye), UN Special Rapporteur on freedom of opinion & expression and author of Speech Police: The Global Struggle to Govern the Internet Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon. Season 2 will focus on Netflix and is coming soon! About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Journalist Larry Ingrassia talks with Recode’s Jason Del Rey about his new book, Billion Dollar Brand Club: How Dollar Shave Club, Warby Parker, and Other Disruptors Are Remaking What We Buy. Ingrassia, a longtime editor for the Wall Street Journal, New York Times and Los Angeles Times, returned to his journalistic roots to report and write the book, which was triggered by the news that the upstart direct-to-consumer razor company Dollar Shave Club had been bought by Unilever for $1 billion. He explains how the relatively inexperienced outsiders who founded the companies he profiles exploited a “customer experience” gap that established retailers weren’t addressing; the inverse correlation between competition and venture capital among e-commerce startups; and how going directly to your customer may change what they expect of your culture and service. Plus: Why, in the end, these companies can’t ignore Amazon forever. Featuring: Larry Ingrassia (@IngrassiaLA), author, Billion Dollar Brand Club Host: Jason Del Rey (@delrey), senior commerce editor, Recode More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Washington Post reporters Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker talk with Recode's Kara Swisher about their new book, A Very Stable Genius: Donald J. Trump's Testing of America. In it, they draw from more than 200 interviews with Trump administration insiders to paint a picture of Washington in 2020, Trump's frequent lies, and how he retaliates against the people who dare to cross him. They discuss how they convinced sources to talk to them, why Trump is actually a genius from a certain point of view, and how his tweeting may have changed the presidency. Plus: What is it like working at the Washington Post now, in the aftermath of the controversial suspension of one of their colleagues, Felicia Sonmez? Featuring: Carole Leonnig (@CarolLeonnig), reporter, Washington Post Phil Rucker (@PhilipRucker), White House Bureau Chief, Washington Post Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mozilla Foundation executive director Mark Surman talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about why the internet needs a "public option," how Mozilla's browser Firefox is positioning itself for the future, and the future of tech regulation. Surman also discusses how punk rock and small-town censorship shaped his worldview, and why being the number one browser isn't actually Firefox's main goal. Featuring: Mark Surman (@msurman), executive director, Mozilla Foundation Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Anna Wiener, a contributing writer for the New Yorker and the author of the new book Uncanny Valley: A Memoir, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about why she left an old industry — book publishing — to work in tech, the "intoxicating" start to her new career, and how her views on tech culture changed over time. Wiener also discusses the problems that people in the industry won’t talk about; why she doesn't agree with reviews that paint her book as a polemic; and how Silicon Valley incorrectly came to see it as the victim. Plus: The insane baby-themed party Kara and Gavin Newsom attended, which was not a sex party. Click here to read a full transcript of this interview. Featuring: Anna Wiener (@annawiener), author, Uncanny Valley: A Memoir Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Writer and McSweeney's founder Dave Eggers talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his latest novel, The Captain and the Glory, why he chose to write a satirical novel about the Trump era, and what he's learned from interviewing Trump supporters that most people on the left wouldn't expect. Eggers also discusses his writing nonprofit, 826 Valencia; why he has a flip phone rather than a smartphone; and what he thinks of his novel about a technology company, The Circle, in hindsight. Plus: Why Trump, not Obama, is the first social media president. Featuring: Dave Eggers, author, The Captain and the Glory Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Black List founder Franklin Leonard talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about how he accidentally created one of the most important lists in Hollywood and how he turned it into a real business for connecting screenwriters with producers. Leonard also talks about the statistics that show the benefits of reading scripts from diverse writers and the mostly-white 2020 Oscar nominations, about which he wrote a satirical op-ed for the Washington Post. Plus: Why he doesn't expect AI to replace human readers. Click here to read a full transcript of this interview. Featuring: Franklin Leonard (@FranklinLeonard), founder, The Black List (@theblcklst) Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vox.com co-founder Ezra Klein talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his new book, Why We're Polarized, the rise of systemic "zero sum" party politics, and how Klein himself has been polarizing in the Trump era. Klein and Swisher also discuss the racial, religious, and urban/rural splits between Democrats and Republicans, the (good and bad) impact of social media on the public discourse, and the one thing regular people can do to combat polarization in their own lives. Plus: Why "Congress should stop being such a bunch of wimps." Featuring: Ezra Klein (@EzraKlein), host of The Ezra Klein Show and author, Why We're Polarized Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sci-fi novelist and science journalist Annalee Newitz talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about their new book, The Future of Another Timeline. Newitz, who was previously a founding editor of io9 and the editor in chief of Gizmodo, talks about their winding route to becoming a writer, by way of monster movies; how their first book Autonomous addresses AI, software patents, and the pharma industry; and how they worked out the mechanics and limitations of time travel and "editing" history for their latest book. Plus: How does technology affect our memory of history, and what will happen to all our digital communications once we're gone? Featuring: Annalee Newitz (@Annaleen), author, The Future of Another Timeline Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Numa Perrier and Tiffany Tenille, the director and star of the new Netflix film Jezebel, talk with Recode's Kara Swisher about Perrier's real-life experience as an online sex worker in the 1990s and turning that into a movie. They also discuss how the rise of digital filmmaking has opened doors for directors of color like Perrier, how Tenille educated herself about life on the early internet, and how state and local regulators wrestled with the rise of digital peep shows. Plus: How the internet changed the relationship between sex workers and their clients, and what creators and Hollywood should do to encourage more diversity. Featuring: Numa Perrier (@missnuma), writer/director/costar, Jezebel Tiffany Tenille (@Tiffany_Tenille), star, Jezebel Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The L Word creator Ilene Chaiken and actors Jennifer Beals, Kate Moennig, and Leisha Hailey talk with Recode's Kara Swisher about their decision to reunite for a new series called The L Word: Generation Q, 10 years after the original show ended. They discuss how the first "L Word" got started, why the first new season is only 8 episodes long, and their hopes for a series of live events for fans of the show, called L Con. Plus: How do they all feel about the rise of tech money in Hollywood over the past decade? Featuring: Ilene Chaiken (@ilenechaiken), creator, The L Word Jennifer Beals (@jenniferbeals), actor, The L Word: Generation Q (Bette Porter) Kate Moennig (@katemoennig), actor, The L Word: Generation Q (Shane McCutcheon) Leisha Hailey (@Leisha_Hailey), actor, The L Word: Generation Q (Alice Pieszecki) Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Forerunner Ventures founder and managing partner Kirsten Green talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the thinking behind her investments in companies like Dollar Shave Club and Glossier; the messy culture struggle at luggage startup Away; and where innovation comes from in today's tech industry. Plus: What are the advantages of being a female venture capitalist, and does the VC industry have to change? Featuring: Kirsten Green (@kirstenagreen), founding partner, Forerunner Ventures Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Pinterest CEO Ben Silbermann talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about deliberately engineering happiness into the site, expanding into commerce, and competing with larger social and commerce tech companies. This interview was recorded in front of a live audience at the National Retail Federation's annual conference, the Big Show, in New York City. Featuring: Ben Silbermann (@8en), CEO, Pinterest Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Writer Jeanette Winterson talks with Recode’s Kara Swisher about her latest book, Frankissstein: A Love Story. Winterson discusses the intertwined histories of LGBT+ people, science fiction literature and technology; how she decided to write a modern twist on Mary Shelley's Frankenstein with a technological bent; and how Shelley foresaw the intersection of bodies and machines. Plus: Is tech becoming the real monster in modern life? And who is the Victor Frankenstein of this era? Featuring: Jeanette Winterson (@Wintersonworld), author, Frankissstein: A Love Story Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

New York Times reporter Jason DeParle talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his most recent book, A Good Provider Is One Who Leaves: One Family and Migration in the 21st Century. The book draws from several decades of reporting, which began when DeParle embedded himself in a shantytown with a poor family in the Philippines for eight months in the 1990s. DeParle also talks about how poverty in the US has evolved throughout his journalism career, the impact of immigration on economic inequality and vice versa, and the way political priorities shift around different generations of migrants. Plus: How will telling immigrants they're not welcome in America affect the economy and the tech industry? Featuring: Jason DeParle (@JasonDeParle), author, A Good Provider Is One Who Leaves Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Megan Rapinoe, the co-captain of the US Women's National Soccer Team, returns to Recode Decode to talk with Recode's Kara Swisher about pay equity, how things have changed since the team's boozy post-World Cup tour, and why she's not running for political office. Plus: How much longer will she be playing soccer? This live episode was recorded at the Massachusetts Conference For Women on December 12. Featuring: Megan Rapinoe, (@mPinoe), co-captain of the US Women's National Soccer Team and co-founder, The Rapinoe Brand Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Journalist and bestselling author David Epstein talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his most recent book, Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World. In it, he argues that the world’s most successful athletes, artists, musicians, inventors, forecasters and scientists are more likely to be dabblers, rather than people who set out to do what they do best from a young age — and, in fact, the people who have highly specialized training from an early age tend to have lower lifetime earnings overall. He explains how the wrong mentality took hold, how its effects ripple into the professional world, and the challenges facing teachers and parents trying to set young people on the right track early. Plus: How to shift into the right mindset to become a successful generalist, and why you don't have to do that while you're in your 20s. Featuring: David Epstein (@DavidEpstein), author, Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kara Swisher convenes her brother, her sons, her mother and her fiancée to talk about their tech habits and how they get their news in a contentious election year. Topics include why her teenage sons Alex and Louie refuse to use TikTok; how technologies like AI are affecting her brother Jeff's work as an anesthesiologist; how having a baby finally forced fiancée Amanda Katz to use Amazon; and why her mother Lucretia Carney isn't giving up on Fox News. Plus: A brief cameo by the newest addition to the family, Amanda and Kara's baby Clara Swisher-Katz. Featuring: Lucretia Carney (@lucretianyc), Kara and Jeff's mother Amanda Katz (@katzish), senior editor, CNN Investigates Jeff Swisher (@JeffreySwisher), chairman of anesthesiology, California Pacific Medical Center Louie Swisher and Alex Swisher, Kara's sons Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Security researcher Bruce Schneier talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his recent book, Click Here to Kill Everybody. He also explains why the internet of things is a “dumpster fire," what regulations need to be implemented to keep people safe, and why the European Union and a few US states may determine the future of tech regulation. Featuring: Bruce Schneier (@schneierblog), author, Click Here to Kill Everybody: Security and Survival in a Hyper-connected World Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you like Recode Decode, we think you'll also like Function with Anil Dash. Here's a recent episode about stopping fake news ahead of the 2020 US elections. Are social networks downplaying their complicity in the problem that is “fake news?” Anil talks to Fadi Quran of the people powered social advocacy group, Avaaz, about how tech is used to target groups of people and spread disinformation that affects our elections, relationships, and social justice movements. Together they discuss insidious nature of disinformation and misinformation, meet its victims, and go over solutions.  Listen closely for the steps that platforms can take right now to stem the tide of fake news and fake accounts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Recode's Kara Swisher, her executive producer Erica Anderson, and her producer Eric Johnson discuss their favorite Recode Decode interviews from 2019 and look back at some of the year's big trends. Use the links below to go to the full versions of the interviews excerpted in this episode in Apple Podcasts; or, if you prefer a different podcast app, use the names/dates to find them in the Recode Decode feed: Shoshana Zuboff (February 20) Carole Cadwalladr (July 8) Tristan Harris (May 6) Ken Burns (October 18) Kathy Griffin (March 13) Barry Diller (February 18) Anand Giridharadas (May 22) Bill de Blasio (September 16) Featuring: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large Erica Anderson (@ericaamerica), Recode Decode executive producer Eric Johnson (@heyheyesj), Recode Decode producer More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Journalist Liz Plank talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about her recent book, For the Love of Men: A New Vision for Mindful Masculinity. Featuring: Liz Plank (@feministabulous), author, For the Love of Men: A New Vision for Mindful Masculinity Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

SuperAwesome CEO Dylan Collins talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about how he got interested in children's digital privacy at a time when Silicon Valley didn't care, how his company works with tech firms to help them comply with privacy laws, and SuperAwesome's in-development video platform for kids, Rukkaz. Collins also talks about his previous gaming companies, which were acquired by Activision and Gamestop; how COPPA and GDPR-K work; and why TikTok and YouTube were fined by the FTC. Read a full transcript of this interview here. Featuring: Dylan Collins (@MrDylanCollins), CEO, SuperAwesome (@GoSuperAwesome) Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

2020 presidential candidate Tom Steyer talks with Recode's Teddy Schleiefer about income inequality and the need for a wealth tax in America, what separates him from fellow ultra-wealthy candidate Michael Bloomberg, and why we should expect the government to solve problems — not plutocrats who have pledged to give their money away. Steyer also discusses the importance of grassroots organizing on the left, how antitrust laws should be applied to tech giants like Amazon and Facebook, and why he's emphasizing climate change as the "number one priority" in 2020. Plus: How people have rationalized the intentional "cruelty" of the Republican Party. Read a full transcript of this interview here. Featuring: Tom Steyer (@TomSteyer), 2020 presidential candidate, investor, and environmental activist Hosts: Teddy Schleifer (@teddyschleifer), finance editor, Recode More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Writer Ben Mezrich talks with Recode’s Kara Swisher about his latest book Bitcoin Billionaires and his previous books, including The Accidental Billionaires, which was adapted into the movie The Social Network. Mezrich, who specializes in "true stories about young people doing crazy things," discusses the controversies around how he depicted Mark Zuckerberg in The Accidental Billionaires, how Zuck has changed over time, and how the story went from a “nobody will care” book proposal to a classic movie. He also talks about the respectability the Winklevoss twins brought to cryptocurrency and why Facebook is the exact wrong company to launch a cryptocurrency, even though they’re looking in the right direction. Plus: Will there be a sequel to The Social Network? Featuring: Ben Mezrich (@benmezrich), author, Bitcoin Billionaires Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Historian Margaret O'Mara talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about her latest book, The Code: Silicon Valley and the Remaking of America. She explains how the government catalyzed the digital revolution starting in the 1960s, the reasons tech power coalesced in suburban California, and why tech history must be considered a part of political history — even though the industry has tried in recent decades to distance itself from government. O'Mara also talks about the origins of sexism in the tech industry and how women were not given the same opportunities to break in as men, and the threats to Silicon Valley's current culture, including government regulation, overly strict immigration laws, and the rise of China. Read a full transcript of this interview here. Featuring: Margaret O'Mara (@MargaretOMara), author, The Code: Silicon Valley and the Remaking of America Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Neal Katyal, a partner at the law firm Hogan Lovells, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his new book Impeach: The Case against Donald Trump. Katyal explains why he believes the “evidence will be too strong” against President Trump, ending his first term prematurely, and argues that if he were Trump's lawyer his advice would be to resign. He also talks about the inability of the DC establishment to comprehend Trump’s propensity for lying, and why social media will become less important during a presidential impeachment trial. Plus: How arguing cases in front of the Supreme Court became an ordinary part of Katyal's job, and how he advises tech companies in an era of looming tech regulation. Read a full transcript of this interview here. Featuring: Neal Katyal (@neal_katyal), author, Impeach: The Case against Donald Trump Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

MakerBot CEO Nadav Goshen talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the company's Method X industrial printer, which Goshen says will foster innovation by making it easier to manufacture real products. He also talks about the setbacks to the initial hype that 3-D printers would be as accessible and commonplace as toothbrushes; how teachers use MakerBot's smaller 3-D printer Replicator in the classroom; and the importance of professionals adopting an emerging technology before it goes mainstream. Plus: What is the environmental impact of making manufacturing effortless at home, and how will global manufacturing change in the coming decades? Featuring: Nadav Goshen, CEO, MakerBot Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrea Matwyshyn, the associate dean of innovation at Penn State Law, talks with Kara Swisher's executive producer, Erica Anderson, about the integration of technology with biology, a trend Matwyshyn terms the "internet of bodies." She explains what that means in real world terms, why someone might want to implant a computer chip in their bodies, and the potential risks and security concerns, including hackers who could manipulate thoughts. Matwyshyn also talks about the ethical and policy implications of this type of tech, and what she, a leading expert on the subject, is most worried about. Featuring: Andrea Matwyshyn (@amatwyshyn), associate dean of innovation at Penn State Law Hosts: Erica Anderson (@EricaAmerica), executive producer, Recode Decode More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Deborah Rutter, the president of Washington, DC's John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the Center's new free immersive learning spaces, REACH, which offer visitors the chance to participate in and look behind the scenes of many kinds of performances. Rutter also discusses how technology has impacted the public's relationship with art and education, why issues like cell phone addiction aren't a big threat to the Kennedy Center's shows, and how tech itself could become part of the artistic experience. Plus: Can art bridge the red-blue dividie, and what will the Kennedy Center look like in 50 years? Featuring: Deborah Rutter (@KenCenPrez), president, John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts (@kencen) Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Axon CEO Rick Smith talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his company's best known product (the Taser), how it's thinking about the ethical implications of new products aimed at police, and the controversies around facial recognition in body cameras. Plus: Is the weapon of the future a pistol that doesn't kill you? Featuring: Rick Smith (@AxonRick), CEO of Axon (@Axon_us) and author of The End of Killing: How Our Newest Technologies Can Solve Humanity's Oldest Problem Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. Listen to Kara's interview with NYU Policing Project director Barry Friedman, who served on Axon's ethics board. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Barry Friedman, the director of The Policing Project at New York University's School of Law, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about making police more accountable, the ethics of emerging technologies like AI and facial recognition, and the missing regulations that affect local communities in the US. Friedman also talks about his work with the company that created the Taser, Axon International — whose CEO Rick Smith will appear on Wednesday's episode of Recode Decode — and why there's not as much data about police work as one might assume. Read a full transcript of this interview here. Featuring: Barry Friedman (@barryfriedman1), director of The Policing Project (@policingproject) and author of Unwarranted: Policing Without Permission. Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Recode's Kara Swisher and her executive producer Erica Anderson talk with a panel of entrepreneurs in Valparaiso, Indiana: Sarah Hallberg, the Medical Director of Virta Health; Eric Christopher, the co-founder and CEO of Zylo; and Robin Fleming, the CEO of Anvl. They discuss the positives and negatives of being tech entrepreneurs in an area not typically associated with the digital revolution, including hiring and retention, the impact of local success stories that went global such as ExactTarget, and the challenges of attracting venture capital funding. Plus: What changes would have the most positive impact on Indiana's entrepreneurial scene? Read a full transcript of this interview here. Featuring: Sarah Hallberg (@drsarahhallberg), Medical Director of Virta Health Eric Christopher, co-founder and CEO of Zylo (@getzylo) Robin Fleming, CEO of Anvl (@ANVLapp) Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large Erica Anderson (@EricaAmerica), executive producer More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Venture capitalist Jana Messerschmidt, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about how she became a partner at Lightspeed and the co-founder of an all-female group of angel investors called #ANGELS. Messerschmidt previously worked at DivX, Netflix, and Twitter, and also discusses the early days of video streaming online and how Netflix timed the market perfectly. Plus: Why #ANGELS doesn't invest only in women, what made that collective different from traditional venture capital, and the urgent need to ensure that women have their fair share of equity in tech startups. Read a full transcript of this interview here. Featuring: Jana Messerschmidt (@janamal), partner, Lightspeed Venture Partners (@Lightspeedvp) and co-founder, #ANGELS (@hashtagangels) Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Susan Rice, the former US ambassador to the United Nations and National Security Advisor under President Obama, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the "ass backwards" way President Trump has approached foreign policy and her new book, Tough Love: My Story of the Things Worth Fighting For. Rice explains the problem with isolationism and selfishness as policies, and says the current administration rolled back many of her achievements "out of spite," without a plan to replace them. She also discusses how Russia and other adversaries have wielded social media to sow division, why she will not abide the normalization of Trump's presidential tweets, and why the tech industry is "five minutes from midnight" with the US Congress. Read a full transcript of this interview here. Featuring: Susan Rice (@AmbassadorRice), former US ambassador to the United Nations and National Security Advisor; author of Tough Love: My Story of the Things Worth Fighting For Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Robert Jackson, one of the five commissioners on the Securities and Exchange Commission, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about how the SEC works and the problem with perpetual dual-class stock at companies like WeWork, Facebook, and Google. Jackson also explains why he opposes two proposed rule changes that would make it harder for activists to challenge a CEO's power, why the NYSE and Nasdaq are not willing to be part of the solution, and how new legislation could fix the dual class dilemma. Plus: Why Jackson is not happy that the SEC settled with Tesla CEO Elon Musk. Read a full transcript of this interview here. Featuring: Robert Jackson, commissioner, US Securities and Exchange Commission Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Reddit co-founder and Initialized Capital managing partner Alexis Ohanian talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about how he became a "dadvocate" for paid paternity leave. Ohanian explains how the medical complications faced by his wife, tennis star Serena Williams, woke him up to the problem, and how time off for fathers can help mothers, as well as female coworkers. He also discusses the problem with how working men glorify their self-destructive schedules online, which he calls "hustle porn"; why he's investing in family tech companies like Mom Project at Initialized, and how the startup scene has changed since his days as a founder; and the decline of San Francisco as a desirable place for entrepreneurs to start their next companies. Plus: What Ohanian thinks of Twitter's decision to stop accepting political advertising, and how afraid we should be of deepfakes. Read a full transcript of this interview here. Featuring: Alexis Ohanian (@alexisohanian), Reddit co-founder and Initialized Capital managing partner Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Writer and health advocate Ted Baxter talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his book, Relentless: How a Massive Stroke Changed My Life for the Better. Baxter, a former managing director at the hedge fund Citadel, had the stroke when he was only 41, and recounts how doctors initially misdiagnosed his symptoms; he also discusses the recovery process, which accelerated after he accepted that he couldn't return to his investing job, and shares advice for people who have recently experienced a stroke or other life-changing event themselves. Read a full transcript of this interview here. Featuring: Ted Baxter (@TedWBaxter), health advocate and author of Relentless: How a Massive Stroke Changed My Life for the Better Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Airbnb CEO and co-founder Brian Chesky talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the recent mass shooting at an Airbnb in Orinda, Calif., how the company is changing its policies to keep guests safer, and what Chesky wishes he had done differently when Airbnb was smaller. They also discuss Airbnb's first brush with notoriety in 2011 and how Chesky "bungled" his response at the time, the importance of meeting with people who hate you, and why Silicon Valley execs should confront the human cost of their products. Plus: The time Chesky had to sleep with a parrot, and the Airbnb with a friendly ghost named Stanley. Read a full transcript of this interview here. Featuring: Brian Chesky (@bchesky), CEO and co-founder of Airbnb Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

MSNBC anchor Stephanie Ruhle talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about her new podcast Modern Ruhles, the Trump voters who get overlooked by the media, and why Wall Streeters afraid of Elizabeth Warren should "look in the goddamn mirror." Ruhle also discusses her unusual path to working in the media, by way of Credit Suisse; the importance of the question "Are you better off in 2020 than you were in 2016?"; and the soul-searching at NBC News in the aftermath of Ronan Farrow's book Catch and Kill. Plus: What people get wrong about Facebook's responsibility to the world, and why it should be regulated as a publisher. Featuring: Stephanie Ruhle (@SRuhle), MSNBC anchor and host of Modern Ruhles Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this special episode of Recode Decode, Kara Swisher checks in with some of the organizers of the Google walkout, who came on her show in November 2018 after leading a 20,000-worker protest. Later in the show, Kara's executive producer Erica Anderson (herself one of the organizers who has since left Google) talks with some of the people who were inspired by the 2018 walkouts to continue fighting for the workers of Google and other tech companies. Featuring: Stephanie Parker (@sparker2), policy specialist at Google and co-organizer of 2018 Google walkout Meredith Whittaker (@mer__edith), co-director of AI Now Institute and co-organizer of 2018 Google walkout Claire Stapleton, co-organizer of 2018 Google walkout Nicole Moore, part-time Lyft driver and organizing committee member of Rideshare Drivers United Ben Gwin, contractor at HCL working on Google Shopping, union leader Shirin Ghaffary (@shiringhaffary), Recode reporter Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large Erica Anderson (@EricaAmerica), executive producer of Recode Decode and co-organizer of 2018 Google walkout More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. If you haven't already, make sure to listen to Kara's original podcast with the walkout organizers from November 2018. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about why he leaked highly classified information in 2013, why that doesn't make him a "traitor," and his new book, Permanent Record. Snowden also talks about how his youthful love of the US government and the early internet turned into skepticism; how his life has changed since going to Moscow; and why he believes Facebook is as untrustworthy as the NSA. Plus: Why people who say they have "nothing to hide" are missing the point about invasions of privacy. Featuring: Edward Snowden (@Snowden), author of Permanent Record and president of Freedom of the Press Foundation (@FreedomofPress) Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andreessen Horowitz co-founder Ben Horowitz talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the state of venture capital, diversity in tech, and his new book, What You Do Is Who You Are: How to Create Your Business Culture. Horowitz also discusses the impact of SoftBank's $100 billion Vision Fund on Silicon Valley, why he wouldn't invest in a social or mobile startup today, and what former CEO Travis Kalanick got right — and very wrong — with Uber’s culture. Plus: Why "break" was the exact right word for Facebook to use in its "move fast and break things" era. Featuring: Ben Horowitz (@bhorowitz), co-founder of Andreessen Horowitz (@a16z) and author of What You Do Is Who You Are: How to Create Your Business Culture. Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Conservative analyst Bill Kristol talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the impeachment effort against President Trump, how politics has entered a "crisis of truth" in the era of Fox News and social media, and the steps that should be taken pre-emptively to ensure that the 2020 elections are free and fair. Kristol also predicts that Trump could be "impeached by Thanksgiving," and explains why he doesn't think "Trumpism" goes away even if its namesake does, outlining one scenario for future elections that would be even worse for American political stability than today's circumstances. Plus: Why we should be talking more about China's technological prowess and why Kristol would "prefer if the Republican Party could be saved, but I'm not sure it can be." Featuring: Bill Kristol (@billkristol), director of Defending Democracy Together and host of Conversations with Bill Kristol Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Gary Cohn, the former Director of the National Economic Council and former chief economic adviser to President Trump, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about what he's done since leaving the Trump administration, including a "significant" investment and advisory position he's taken up in a mobile security company called Hoyos Integrity. Cohn explains how Hoyos is developing a more secure phone for people who deal in confidential information, such as government workers; how it's trying to advance digital wallets as an alternative to credit cards in the US; and the political backlash to Facebook's Libra cryptocurrency. Cohn, who's also the former president and chief operating officer of Goldman Sachs, also talks about the powerful tech companies that went public during his tenure there, how private investors are over-valuing companies like WeWork before they are profitable, and why he doesn't think a recession is coming. Plus: How he feels about the way his former boss Trump uses Twitter. Featuring: Gary Cohn, investor and adviser to Hoyos Integrity (@HOYOSINTEGRITY) Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Recode's Kara Swisher talks to the creators of two new plays that intersect with tech issues: Heidi Schreck, the former star and playwright of What the Constitution Means to Me, and the writer and director of Right to Be Forgotten — Sharyn Rothstein and Seema Sueko. Schreck took the name of her play from a series of debate competitions she competed in as a teenager, but has developed a more complicated appreciation for the Constitution as an adult, and discusses how its flaws connect to her own life story. Later in the show, Rothstein and Sueko talk about the thorny political question of how permanent our communications online should be, and whether people have a "right to be forgiven" for past misdeeds. Featuring: Heidi Schreck (@heidibschreck), writer and former actor, What the Constitution Means to Me Sharyn Rothstein, writer, Right to Be Forgotten Seema Sueko (@Seemasue), director, Right to Be Forgotten Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Ronan Farrow talks with Recode’s Kara Swisher about his new book, Catch and Kill: Lies, Spies, and a Conspiracy to Protect Predators, which details the extreme lengths men like Harvey Weinstein have gone to escape accountability for sexual abuse. He discusses why other journalists before him couldn’t nail the Weinstein story, and how the powerful Hollywood producer tapped into a network of shady allies in his attempt to suppress it — including some of Farrow's former bosses at NBC News. He also talks about how the public and the press mistreated women like Rose McGowan, his recent story about the MIT-Jeffrey Epstein cover-up, and why the book is ultimately optimistic about the future. Plus: Will Catch and Kill be a movie? Featuring: Ronan Farrow, author, Catch and Kill: Lies, Spies, and a Conspiracy to Protect Predators Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. Listen to Kara's last interview with Farrow (about his previous book, War on Peace), former MIT Media Lab director Joi Ito (recorded before Farrow's New Yorker story that led to Ito's resignation), and She Said authors Jodi Kantor and Megan Twohey. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Filmmaker Ken Burns talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his latest documentary series "Country Music," in which he explores the history of the genre, its place in the larger American musical landscape, and the powerful universality of "three chords and the truth." Burns says that unlike rock and jazz, country music is largely a story about powerful women, and also unpacks the ways in which it reflects the intermingling ethnic diversity of the US. He also discusses his online video destination Unum, which lets people curate "mixtapes" of history by drawing connections among Burns' 38 years of docuumentaries, and why he's glad he wasn't one of the first people to make the leap to digital filmmaking. Plus: Burns previews the next seven films he's working on, including the American Revolution, the Great Society, and the Buffalo. Featuring: Ken Burns, director and producer, Country Music, and founder of Unum Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Cambridge Analytica’s former business development director Brittany Kaiser talks with Recode’s Kara Swisher about her new book TARGETED: The Cambridge Analytica Whistleblower's Inside Story of How Big Data, Trump, and Facebook Broke Democracy and How It Can Happen Again. Kaiser talks about how she first observed the dangers of social media while working on Barack Obama's 2008 campaign, why she mistakenly believed Cambridge Analytica was using technology as a force for good, and what happened when she decided to turn on the company and testify about its abuses in the UK Parliament. She also deconstructs Facebook's excuses for the scandal and its slow response, and predicts that 2020 could be "exponentially worse" than 2016 for election interference. Featuring: Brittany Kaiser, author of TARGETED: The Cambridge Analytica Whistleblower's Inside Story of How Big Data, Trump, and Facebook Broke Democracy and How It Can Happen Again. Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Listen to Kara's interview with the creators of The Great Hack, a Netflix documentary about Cambridge Analytica, including former COO Julian Wheatland. Read Vox's Alissa Wilkinson's review of The Great Hack. Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Matt Hulett, the president of education company Rosetta Stone, talks with Recode’s Kara Swisher about the company’s pivot away from language-learning CDs and into a more advanced and “approachable” mobile app. He also talks about his “promiscuous” background in the tech industry; Rosetta Stone’s literacy catch-up program for children, Lexia Learning; and the bigger picture of how language education is changing around the world. Plus: What’s the best way to make learning stick, and will Elon Musk’s Neuralink or some other moonshot technical development make learning languages unnecessary? Featuring: Matt Hulett, president of Rosetta Stone (@matt_hulett / @RosettaStone) Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Recode's Kara Swisher interviews two CEOs in this double-feature episode of Recode Decode: First, she speaks with OpenDoor CEO Eric Wu about how technology is encroaching on the real estate industry, why housing is ripe for disruption, and how OpenDoor is bracing for the next recession. Later in the show, Swisher talks to Evite CEO Victor Cho about how the 21-year-old company is exploring new revenue models, avoiding the "MySpace slide," and what Cho learned from Eastman Kodak's failed turnaround. Featuring: Eric Wu (@ericwu01), CEO of OpenDoor Victor Cho, CEO of Evite Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrew Marantz, a staff writer at the New Yorker, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his new book, Antisocial: Online Extremists, Techno‑Utopians, and the Hijacking of the American Conversation. He discusses the danger of designing social media platforms around emotional engagement, how people like Mike Cernovich and Milo Yiannopoulos exploited people's belief in a broad political "consensus," and technology's role in advancing hate and extremism online. Marantz also explains what he calls the culture of "big swinging brains" in Silicon Valley, and why banning people from Twitter — including President Trump — isn't a comprehensive solution. Featuring: Andrew Marantz (@andrewmarantz), staff writer at the New Yorker and author of Antisocial. Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Carly Fiorina, the former CEO of HP who ran for the Republican nomination for president in 2016, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about campaigning against Donald Trump, her friendship with Apple co-founder Steve Jobs, and the over-concentration of power among a handful of CEOs in the tech industry. Fiorina also talks about her experience as one of the few female tech CEOs of the 1990s, the “lasting damage” President Trump has done to the Republican Party, and why she's impressed by Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi's handling of the impeachment inquiry. Plus: What did Steve Jobs get right that Mark Zuckerberg has not? Featuring: Carly Fiorina (@CarlyFiorina), author of Find Your Way and host of the leadership podcast By Example Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom ... But enough about us We are conducting an audience survey to better serve you. It takes no more than five minutes, and it really helps out the show. Please take our survey here: www.voxmedia.com/podsurvey.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Federal Election Commission Chair Ellen Weintraub talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about how the FEC works, how it tries to defend elections from foreign influence, and why the Commission is currently immobilized by a lack of "quorum" — in other words, it doesn't have enough members to launch or conclude any investigations. Weintraub talks about pending legislation to make advertising and campaign contributions more transparent, and explains how the FEC's current paralysis may undermine the cybersecurity of the 2020 presidential campaign. Plus: How she pushed back on President Trump's evidence-free claims about voter fraud in New Hampshire. Featuring: Ellen Weintraub (@EllenLWeintraub), chair of the Federal Election Commission Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom ... But enough about us We are conducting an audience survey to better serve you. It takes no more than five minutes, and it really helps out the show. Please take our survey here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Barack Obama's former cybersecurity coordinator Michael Daniel, now the CEO of the nonprofit Cyber Threat Alliance, talks with Recode’s Kara Swisher about the state of US cybersecurity heading into the 2020 elections. Daniel says the proposed solutions to election hacking may just cause new problems: "If you can track your vote," he says, "I can track your vote." Featuring: Michael Daniel (@CyAlliancePrez), president and CEO, Cyber Threat Alliance Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom ... But enough about us We are conducting an audience survey to better serve you. It takes no more than five minutes, and it really helps out the show. Please take our survey here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rebecca Kelly Slaughter, one of the FTC's two Democratic commissioners, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the state of antitrust problems in the tech industry, the history of pushback against the FTC for alleged over-enforcement, and whether it is under-enforcing the law today. Slaughter also talks about her objections to the $5 billion fine against Facebook that the FTC negotiated this year, the limitations on its speed and fining power, and its investigation of YouTube for COPPA violations, which led to a $170 million fine. Plus: The actions the FTC has taken against Uber and TikTok, why it was so permissive of tech M&A during the Obama administration, and why Slaughter doesn't think the US needs a new internet regulatory agency. Featuring: Rebecca Kelly Slaughter (@RKSlaughterFTC), FTC Commissioner (@FTC) Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom ... But enough about us We are conducting an audience survey to better serve you. It takes no more than five minutes, and it really helps out the show. Please take our survey here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mark Warner, the senior US Senator from Virginia, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about several interconnected policy issues affecting the 2020 elections, including the security of voter registries, the expectation of social media manipulation by Russia and other hostile foreign powers, and the newly announced impeachment inquiry into President Trump's phone call with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky. Sen. Warner also talks about the potential of regulators breaking up tech giants and how the US government's relationship with those companies has improved since 2016, yet still calls for more oversight of their unprecedented power. Plus: Why he's "cautiously optimistic" about Republicans in the Senate embracing election reform and new privacy laws, his proposal for incentivizing companies to invest in their workers, and how Warner thinks Congress might be able to fix Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act without repealing it wholesale. Editor's note: This interview was recorded the morning of Wednesday, September 25, before the release of the White House memo with a "transcript" of Trump's call with Zelensky. Featuring: Mark Warner (@MarkWarner), US Senator from Virginia Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. If you haven't already, check out Kara's past interviews with Rep. Adam Schiff and Whistleblower Aid CEO John Napier Tye. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom ... But enough about us We are conducting an audience survey to better serve you. It takes no more than five minutes, and it really helps out the show. Please take our survey here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

John Napier Tye, the founder and CEO of Whistleblower Aid, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about how his non-profit law firm helps people seeking to legally expose corruption in the government and at private companies. It recently worked with a whistleblower at MIT, connecting them with New Yorker reporter Ronan Farrow to discuss the university's cover-up of funding that had come from convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein; Tye also discusses the US official who reported President Trump's phone call with the president of Ukraine, the Edward Snowden leaks in 2013, and how whistleblowers can protect themselves from criticism and retribution. Plus: Will we always need whistleblowers? Featuring: John Napier Tye, founder and CEO of Whistleblower Aid (@wbaidlaw) Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom ... But enough about us We are conducting an audience survey to better serve you. It takes no more than five minutes, and it really helps out the show. Please take our survey here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Recode's Kara Swisher talks with Hermitage Capital CEO Bill Browder, a hedge fund manager turned human rights activist and his son, Josh Browder, whose company DoNotPay helps consumers fight everything from parking tickets to the Equifax leaks. They talk about the different ways they have pursued justice for relatively powerless people, their entrepreneurial journeys, and how both the Putin regime and mega-corporations have taken advantage of the internet. Featuring: Bill Browder (@BillBrowder), Hermitage Capital CEO Josh Browder (@JBrowder1), DoNotPay CEO Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom ... But enough about us We are conducting an audience survey to better serve you. It takes no more than five minutes, and it really helps out the show. Please take our survey here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

New York Times reporters Jodi Kantor and Megan Twohey talk with Recode's Kara Swisher about their new book, She Said: Breaking the Sexual Harassment Story That Helped Ignite a Movement. They talk about how Kantor and Twohey reported stories about sexual harassment allegations against Harvey Weinstein; how Weinstein's network of lawyers and advisers kept his misconduct under wraps; and how the story help launch an ongoing reckoning around power imbalances between men and women worldwide. They also explain why they interviewed Christine Blasey Ford, the college professor who testified in Congress that Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh sexually assaulted her in 1982. Featuring: Jodi Kantor (@jodikantor), New York Times investigative reporter and co-author, She Said Megan Twohey (@mega2e), New York Times investigative reporter and co-author, She Said Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom ... But enough about us We are conducting an audience survey to better serve you. It takes no more than five minutes, and it really helps out the show. Please take our survey here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Steve Schwarzman, the CEO of the private equity firm The Blackstone Group, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his new book, What It Takes: Lessons in the Pursuit of Excellence. Schwarzman — a longtime advisor to President Trump — also discusses his scholarship program that teaches future leaders how to do business in China, how he would like to see policymakers address populist anger, and the big economic trends he and Blackstone are currently pursuing. Plus: Can we fix the H-1B visa program without simultaneously addressing other forms of immigration? Featuring: Steve Schwarzman, CEO of The Blackstone Group and author of What It Takes: Lessons in the Pursuit of Excellence. Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bill de Blasio, the mayor of New York City, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about why he's still running for the Democratic nomination in 2020, the threat of job automation and his proposed "robot tax," and how de Blasio thinks about the future of transit in New York and beyond. He also talks about how the plan for New York to become one of Amazon's "HQ2" locations fell apart, and why he supports both a national privacy bill and tougher antitrust action against Facebook and Google. Featuring: Bill de Blasio (@BilldeBlasio), mayor of New York City and 2020 presidential candidate Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Author and spiritual teacher Marianne Williamson talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about her campaign to be the Democratic nominee for president in 2020. Williamson explains why she's still in the race even though she didn't qualify for the third debate and talks about what she has learned from running as an non-establishment candidate, negativity and anger on social media, and how she thinks about the tech industry — and vice versa. She and Swisher also discuss her entrepreneurial journey, her divisive comments about religion, vaccines, and medication, and what Williamson would do if she were CEO of Twitter. Featuring: Marianne Williamson (@marwilliamson), 2020 presidential candidate Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Audrey Gelman, the co-founder and CEO of women's coworking space The Wing, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the company's new hiring network for its members, and how it can combat bias in hiring. They also discuss why Gelman and her co-founder Lauren Kassan started The Wing, the services it provides for its members, and the challenges of raising money for a business aimed at women. Featuring: Audrey Gelman (@audreygelman), CEO of The Wing (@the_wing) Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Microsoft President Brad Smith talks with Recode’s Kara Swisher about his new book, co-authored with Carol Ann Browne, Tools and Weapons: The Promise and the Peril of the Digital Age. They discuss what Microsoft learned from United States v. Microsoft Corp. in 2001 and how that antitrust investigation compares to today’s techlash; the culture of disruption and “move fast and break things” in Silicon Valley; and why every tech company, even those not responsible for problems, should be part of the solutions. Smith also talks about the impact of Edward Snowden’s NSA leak and the Cambridge Analytica scandal, how the government can expand the opportunities enjoyed by the tech world with more of America, and tech regulation around the world — including why Smith believes the US will have a national privacy bill by 2024. Plus: Is it inevitable that big tech companies will be broken up? Featuring: Brad Smith (@bradsmi), president of Microsoft and co-author of Tools and Weapons: The Promise and the Peril of the Digital Age. Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Former New York Times labor reporter Steve Greenhouse talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his most recent book, Beaten Down, Worked Up: The Past, Present, and Future of American Labor. Greenhouse explains why worker power and compensation are at their lowest levels since World War II and how a series of cultural changes — including globalization, the internet, and the gig economy — have affected and endangered the working class. He and Swisher also discuss DoorDash's long-running practice of stealing tips, Facebook's inshoring of offensive content moderation to poorly managed contractors, and the problems with universal basic income proposals made by people like presidential candidate Andrew Yang. Featuring: Steve Greenhouse, former labor reporter, New York Times (@greenhousenyt) Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

James O'Toole, a professor emeritus at the University of Southern California, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his book, The Enlightened Capitalists: Cautionary Tales of Business Pioneers Who Tried to Do Well by Doing Good. O'Toole discusses the first such "enlightened capitalist," British industrialist Robert Owen; why, like Owen, do-gooder CEOs can't or won't make change today; and the history of the belief that corporations only exist to serve the shareholder. He also talks about how Whole Foods co-founder John Mackey's battle with values-adverse shareholders forced him to sell the company Amazon, and why a growing number of small companies are writing their ethical values into legally binding paperwork. Featuring: James O'Toole, professor emeritus at USC Host: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jennifer Eberhardt, professor of psychology at Stanford University, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about her most recent book, Biased: Uncovering the Hidden Prejudice That Shapes What We See, Think, and Do. She talks about where bias comes from, why the erosion of old social norms has brought our prejudices to the surface, and how technology can encourage bias. Eberhardt shares examples of academic studies and real-world statistics that have revealed racial bias among police officers, and explains how one tech platform — the local social media site Nextdoor — reduced racial profiling among its users by more than 75 percent. Featuring: Jennifer Eberhardt, professor of psychology at Stanford University and author of Biased. Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lime President Joe Kraus talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about how he came to Lime after a long career in both startups and venture capital, the company's pivot from bikes to scooters and the "unbundling of the car." Kraus also talks about the impact of scooters on cities and public transit, how Lime is trying to stand out in the crowded global scooter market, and the large valuations for scooter companies. Plus: Why Uber and Lyft's rocky IPOs haven't scared Lime away from going public someday. Featuring: Joe Kraus, President of Lime (@LimeBike) Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Gro Intelligence founder and CEO Sara Menker talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about the growing field of agriculture technology and how farmers around the world are using data. She also talks about the impact of geopolitical events like the US-China trade war and the challenges of raising capital for an ag-tech startup. Featuring: Sara Menker, founder and CEO of Gro Intelligence (@SaraMenker) Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andy Purdy, the chief security officer for Huawei Technologies USA, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher. They discuss the trade and security disputes between the US and Chinese governments, the increasingly sophisticated cybersecurity threats facing America, and how China's government intersects with its tech industry. Purdy also talks about Huawei's 5G ambitions, saying that some of its competitors also have deep ties to China but have not been similarly scrutinized by the US government. Featuring: Andy Purdy (@andy_purdy) Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: Subscribe for free to Pivot, Kara’s podcast with NYU Professor Scott Galloway that offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Recode's Kara Swisher convenes a panel of experts to talk about section 230 of the Communications Decency Act: cybersecurity law professor Jeff Kosseff, author of "The Twenty Six Words That Created The Internet"; lawyer Carrie Goldberg, author of "Nobody’s Victim: Fighting Psychos, Stalkers, Pervs, and Trolls"; and the CEO and founder of Techdirt, Mike Masnick. Follow us Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), host Jeff Kosseff (@jkosseff), guest Carrie Goldberg (@cagoldberglaw), guest Mike Masnick (@mmasnick), guest Erica Anderson (@EricaAmerica), executive producer Eric Johnson (@HeyHeyESJ), producer More to explore If you haven't already, subscribe to Recode Decode Subscribe to Recode's other podcasts: Recode Media, Pivot, and Land of the Giants Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Writer Joe Menn talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his most recent book, "Cult of the Dead Cow: How the Original Hacking Supergroup Might Just Save the World." In this episode: How Menn started writing about cybercrime; the rise and fall of Napster; his first book about hacking, “Fatal System Error”; the origins of Cult of the Dead Cow; “they’re basically good guys”; its invite-only membership and how it works; how it forced Microsoft to take security seriously; how future presidential candidate Beto O’Rourke got involved; what other CDC alumni are doing today; the state of cybercrime in 2019; the complexity of protecting yourself online; the government’s attempts to undermine encryption; the 2020 election; and what the US should do to protect its citizens. Follow us Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), host Joe Menn (@josephmenn), guest Erica Anderson (@EricaAmerica), executive producer Eric Johnson (@HeyHeyESJ), producer More to explore If you haven't already, subscribe to Recode Decode Subscribe to Recode's other podcasts: Recode Media, Pivot, and Land of the Giants Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mike Volpi and Danny Rimer, the co-founders of the San Francisco office of Index Ventures, talk with Recode's Kara Swisher. In this episode: Volpi and Rimer's backgrounds and the early days of the internet; applying a global perspective to venture capital; being a smaller firm when capital is abundant; why the rise of other regions does not mean Silicon Valley is "over"; open-source culture in Europe; Latin America, Israel, and China; scooters, autonomous driving, and the future of urban mobility; disrupting the beauty and fashion industries; disrupting venture capital itself; over-empowered founders and the WeWork CEO's $700 million cash-out; diversity in tech; techlash and antitrust regulation; and the most overhyped and most underhyped categories in tech. Follow us Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), host Mike Volpi (@mavolpi), guest Danny Rimer (@dannyrimer), guest Erica Anderson (@EricaAmerica), executive producer Eric Johnson (@HeyHeyESJ), producer More to explore If you haven't already, subscribe to Recode Decode Subscribe to Recode's other podcasts: Recode Media, Pivot, and Land of the Giants Watch Kara's 2008 interview with Volpi about his video startup, Joost Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

US Congressman Ro Khanna, who represents California's 17th district, joins Recode's Kara Swisher live onstage at Manny's in San Francisco to talk about the state of tech policy and the next elections. In this episode: Khanna's internet bill of rights; will we ever have a national privacy bill?; the problem with "break them up"; the FTC’s Facebook fine; President Trump's racist attacks on the “squad” and Democrats’ reactions; the current mood in Washington; is Silicon Valley "over?”; Trump’s continued popularity; working on the Bernie Sanders campaign; Khanna’s second choice, Elizabeth Warren; Medicare for All; Russian attacks on elections; ensuring the health of tech; the problems with facial recognition; and government regulation of speech online. Follow us Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), host Ro Khanna (@RepRoKhanna), guest Erica Anderson (@EricaAmerica), executive producer Eric Johnson (@HeyHeyESJ), producer More to explore If you haven't already, subscribe to Recode Decode Subscribe to Recode's other podcasts: Recode Media, Pivot, and Land of the Giants Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Scott Kupor, the managing partner of Andreessen Horowitz, talks with Recode’s Kara Swisher and Teddy Schleifer about his new book, Secrets of Sand Hill Road: Venture Capital and How to Get It. In this episode: How Kupor became a venture capitalist; his role at Andreessen Horowitz; what makes AH different from other venture firms; how other firms have copied it; why Kupor wrote his book; the “secrets” of how VCs think; stories that founders tell employees and investors; working with limited partners; why firms have to give founders so much control; the friction of removing CEOs; diversity in VC; what’s next for venture capital; how Andreessen Horowitz is looking at opportunity zones; and is Silicon Valley “over?” Follow us Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), host Teddy Schleifer (@teddyschleifer), co-host Scott Kupor (@skupor), guest Erica Anderson (@EricaAmerica), executive producer Eric Johnson (@HeyHeyESJ), producer More to explore If you haven't already, subscribe to Recode Decode Subscribe to Recode's other podcasts: Recode Media, Pivot, and Land of the Giants Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Inspired by the trendiness of intermittent fasting in the tech community, Kara Swisher's executive producer, Erica Anderson, talks with three eating habit experts — a biohacker, an academic, and an eating disorder specialist. In this episode: HVMN CEO Geoff Woo on the culture of body optimization, the mainstreaming of biohacking, and how humans are "approaching God"; aging and nutrition expert Dr. Valter Longo on the origins of biohacking, the science behind intermittent fasting, and the problem with Silicon Valley's interpretations of the practice; and the executive director of the National Easting Disorder Association, Claire Mysko, on the line between eccentric diets and disorders, the wellness industry, and what to do if someone you know needs help. Follow us Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), host Geoff Woo (@geoffreywoo), guest Claire Mysko (@clairemysko), guest Erica Anderson (@EricaAmerica), executive producer Eric Johnson (@HeyHeyESJ), producer More to explore If you haven't already, subscribe to Recode Decode Subscribe to Recode's other podcasts: Recode Media, Pivot, and Land of the Giants Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Larry Diamond, a professor at Stanford University and senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his new book, Ill Winds: Saving Democracy from Russian Rage, Chinese Ambition, and American Complacency. In this episode: Diamond’s background studying the development and failure of democracies; authoritarian regimes and the internet; why the book is called “Ill Winds”; the right-wing populist backlash across Europe; the deeper frustrations underneath anti-immigration sentiment; why Hillary Clinton lost the electoral college; how Russia, the "fallen superpower," is intervening in elections around the world; Mitch McConnell's obstinacy; "pretty close to treason"; the "risk of sliding into a new Cold War"; why China is the bigger threat in the long term; its tight control of Chinese citizens and companies; how will its rise affect US policy?; how China's people will react when the prosperity stops; declining American investment in R&D "sleepwalking into the future"; how two-party politics have paralyzed the US; Diamond's proposed solution, ranked-choice voting; the danger of online voting; and the fight against gerrymandering, voter suppression, and polarization. Came here from The Bill Simmons Podcast? We rounded up a few favorite episodes we think fans of The Ringer will enjoy. Take a look! Follow us Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), host Larry Diamond (@LarryDiamond), guest Erica Anderson (@EricaAmerica), executive producer Eric Johnson (@HeyHeyESJ), producer More to explore If you haven't already, subscribe to Recode Decode Subscribe to Recode's other podcasts: Recode Media, Pivot, and Land of the Giants Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices