Sugar Calling

‘You Don’t Take Dictation. You Find the Truth.’

Note: This episode contains descriptions of suicide and sexual violence. Cheryl phones Amy Tan at her home overlooking Sausalito Bay in California. The two compare notes on family, grief and the long arc of resilience.
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Cheryl Strayed, also known as Sugar, says writing taught her how to give advice. In this moment of uncertainty, she’s setting aside advice-giving in favor of wisdom-seeking and turning to the writers who have long inspired her for courage and insight.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.