Benjamin Bratton on why Covid should change the way we think and on why he hates Ted talks

Benjamin Bratton is a sociologist, design theorist and author. He perhaps is most known for his TED talk, 'What's wrong with TED Talks?'   His most recent book, 'The Revenge of the Real: Politics for a Post-Pandemic' world discusses the lessons he says that we can learn from our experiences with Covid-19 politically, culturally and technologically.   Benjamin talks to Krishnan about 'that' Ted talk, why he thinks we need a new language and why he thinks universal collaboration is of utmost importance.   Producer: Rachel Evans