Lizzo’s Complicated, Joyful Pop

The singer, rapper and songwriter’s peppy empowerment songs have made her an outlier in a field dominated by melancholic music. Guests: The Ringer's Justin Charity; Lindsay Zoladz; and William Robin. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.