Tate McRae, Dua Lipa and the Fight to Be ‘Main Pop Girl’

A conversation about a title that emerged from stan communities, and how it’s played a role in pop singers’ careers. Guests: Vulture's Jason P. Frank and Rolling Stone's Larisha Paul. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.